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HOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY, July…

HOUSE OF COMMONS, MONDAY*…

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the proportion of Irish members in the Imperial Parliament; a. Municipal Corporations Bill analogous to that of Kngland; a new Registration Act; an alteration of the appropriation of Church revenues a change in the Grand Jury Laws a proper Landlord and Tenant Act; an Act for the reclamation of Waste Lands an Act -for the amendment of the Poor-law in many respects; and a tax upon absentees." Without these re- medial measures, he feared that Ireland would require to be held by the sword but he wished, before he left the House for his home, to obtain a message of peace, without which his influence in Ireland would be at an end. Lord John Russell began his reply by complimenting the honourable mover of the resolution upon the temperate lan- guage in which he had brought it forward; and, after advert- ing to the tardiness with which all legislative reforms have been accomplished, cited a description of the state of Ireland in 1796, in order to show that the grievances now complained had their existence before the Union. ■ The noble lord then endeavoured to show, that, whatever blame might attach to Governments and Parliaments, the peculiar social condition of Ireland is attributable to other causes. He then expatiated upon some of the reforms which had been effected since the Union, and adverted to the measures introduced by Govern- ment during the present session. He came, at length, to the subject of the Irish Church Establishment, which he admitted to be an anomaly and a grievance; but, were he asked what can be the remedy, he found the difficulties insurmountable. lie considered a Church Establishment a wise institution and SH to the question whether, having one for the Protestants, there ought not to be another for the great majority of the people, every one knows that that subject is beset with great difficulties. Were he to declare himself in favour of such a ?jian, he would be charged with wishing to bribe the clergy, by inducing them to enter into the service of the State. But I this was a question wh ch some Parliament would have to cope with. The noble lord concluded his apologetical speech with asking the House not to assent to the impossible task laid before them by the hon. member, but to proceed calmly and gradually in the removal of Irish grievances. Mr. Herbert, Mr. W. Fagan, and Mr. Monsell, severally supported the resolution. Mr, Osborne followed, and, in a speech of caustic sarcasm, dissected the "milk-and-water" speech of the noble lord; contrasting his language in 1834, when he spoke of Ireland as occupied, not governed, with his performances since he had acceded to oínce. The honi and yd) ant member avowed, that he considered the existence of the. State Church in its prese.it form, with twelve bishops, who had £ 70,000 a year, for a population of 750,000 Protestants, as a monster grievan e. That Church had formerly been de- fined by Lord as a Church of livings without duties, clergy without flock, and payment without work." If they would do justice to Ireland, they must alter the territorial system of the Church, and adopt the Congregational system. In June, 1841, a modon for inquiry into the Church Tempo- ralities had been bio ight forward by the honourable member for Sheffield, who ke of the Irish Church as the root of all the Irish discontents, t 18 cradle of the Irish grievances. In the minority who voted on thit occasion, there were no fewer than twenty-nine gentlemen who were connected with the present Government, and tight Cabinet ministers (hear, hear). Again, in 1845, Mr. Ward had said then was the time to do away with the Irish Church, which was England's disgrace and Ireland's bane. Mr. Maeaulay made a speech on that oc- casion which was nearly sedition ("hear," and laughter). He had remarked, that the Church of Ireland reversed the order of Scripture for it fed the rich with good things, and the hungry it sent empty away. But we find it impossible to do j ustiee by any abstract to the honourable and gallant mem- ber's telling speech, which not only abounded with capi al hits, but was studded with important facts and useful suggestions. He concluded by saying, that he was ready to return to Ire- Had, if the noble lo-d would give him a pledge that remedial measures would be proposed. Mr. C. Anstey denied that the Established Church was re- garded, by the Irish people as the root of the grievances of Ireland, or, indeed, as any grievance at all He, as < Roman Catholic, did not consider it as such. When the honourable and learned member finished his absurd harangue, Mr. M. J. O'Conncll moved the adjournment of the debate, which was agreed to. Some other business was dis- posed of, leave was given to bring in three new Bills and the f Iou'!cadjourned at a quarter to two o'clock. The debate was resumed, and brought to a conclusion on ft.Uurday. The House divided, and the numbers were- For the motion 24 Against it 101 Majority against -77