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NEWTOWN LOCAL BOARD.

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NEWTOWN LOCAL BOARD. FRIDAY, 1ST SEPT. Present: Captain,E. Pryce- Jones (chairman), Messrs. G. H. Ellison, Cornelius Morgan, W. Francis, John Hughes, Henry Roberts, A. S. Cooke, Evan Ashton, Edwanl Jones, D. Lewis, Owen, W. Lewis, Thomas Jones, and David Owen; with Messrs. W. Cooke (clerk), and R. W. Dayies (surveyor). THE LOAN. On the motion of the Chairman, seconded by Mr. Francis, a resolution was passed authorising Mr. Richard Jones, the Board's treasurer, to receive the £1,000 loan. THE WATER SUPPLY. The Surveyor read the following report" The Committee having had the Waterworks Company's letter under consideration, and before finally deciding upon the question of Waterworks charges, they wish to have the opinion of the Board on the means of flushing, whether they are prepared to ;adopt the system of flushing the sewers by means of a water van, or to follow the same system as we have now. By the-following of the present system it will be necessary to renew the sluices in the sewer chambers at a cost of about £150. By the water cart system about half the quantity now used will be necessary, and we are confident that the flttshing will be far more efficiently done." Mr. Ellison said he had been requested to move the adoption of the report. As far as it was concerned T they would find one particular limit with regard to the mode of flushing, that of course referred to the flushing tank. The Committee had gone into the matter very carefully, and had thought it wise to ask the opinion of the Board before framing a formal report. If the Board decided to have a tank or otherwise the Committee would prepare a report upon it. The Chairman had placed himself in com- munication with other towns where a tank was used, and in each case they had found the mode of flushing working effectively. Other members had also made enquiries with satisfactory results. Mr. David Owen seconded. Referring to the new scheme he said it was a wonder, always after new movements came to the front and gave satisfaction, that people had not seen it sooner. There was a time for all things, and there was a time for this. They were living to learn, and he thought this had been an important lesson to the Board to economise the water. The cost would be reduced, and a much smaller quantity of water would be more efficient than the large quantity they were now using. There was no doubt that the adoption of the scheme would save the Board going to the expense of £100 for repairing the sluices. l Mr. Henry Roberts expressed his pleasure at the report, and said he believed the plan would be more effective, and would be a great saving to the ratepayers. He had seen the system work satisfactorily in other towns. Mr. Edward Jones asked whether the Board were proceeding in accordance with the notice on the agenda. The Board were now promulgating a new scheme, and no notice was placed on the agenda. The notice on the agenda was to settle the difference •of the terms between the Waterworks Company and the Local Board. If they were going to have a new scheme for flushing there should be due notice given. The Chairman said the question had been deferred to piease Mr. Jones, and now he wished to do so again. Mr. Edward Jones pointed out that the Board -should deal with the terms of the agreement, and if they could not come to a satisfactory resolution then they must come together and go in for another scheme. The discussion was out of order. The motion was then put and carried. Mr. Ellison: In order to perfect the scheme another resolution must be put before you, and that is that arrangements be made for the purchase of a flushing tank. I think the Committee should "be empowered to make the necessary arrangements. With regard to what Mr. Edward Jones has said about the matter not being on the agenda, the water question means the whole question. The -Committee mention that it will cost £150 to put the sluices in order, which Mr. Jones wants done, but he would consider that course just as illegal— as the amount is not on the agenda—as the one in which we intend to purchase a tank, which will .cost at most £ 50. Mr W. Lewis seconded. Mr. Hughes: Can we vote on this without due notice of motion ? Mr. David Owen asked what was the objection to the present cart. Why could not that be utilised for flushing purposes ? He believed that the water cart, after spending £5 upon it, could be uswi flushing the sewers and watering the streets, unless it was too small. The Chairman: To be in perfect order, and under the circumstances that the Board is not perfectly unanimous, it is well that this should be brought forward on the agenda at another meet- ing. I am sorry we should be oalled upon to take this course, because in time gone by Committees have made recommendations and expenses have been incurred, without the amount of money being placed on the agenda. I have never seen the actual amount proposed to be spent placed on the agenda, and I am exceedingly sorry that this course should be taken, and I must ask Mr. Ellison and Mr. Lewis to postpone their motion until we can call a special meeting of the Board to confirm the resolution. Mr. Edward Jones I am sorry that this Board should commit themselves to an outlay of £50. I think it would be far better in order to test the scheme to hire one of these carts; and then I am sure you will be convinced of its uselessness. Unless you put the sluices:in perfect order it will be foolish to get a cart. I would not mind going to part of the expense myself, but you would be able to see the effect from the cart we have. The Chairman: We require a cart which will hold 450 gallons, 150 gallons more than our present cart will contain. Mr. Edward Jones Do you mean to say that a new cart of 450 gallons will possess so much ad- ditional capacity as to flush the sewers ? It is childish to think of accepting such a thing. Mr. David Owen: Perfectly so. Mr. Edward Jones It is childish. Mr. David Owen: Perfectly so.. Mr. Edward Jones: I am surprised that this Board should sanction the expenditure of money for such a purpose. Mr. Morgan proposed the appointment of a small committee to ascertain the size and capacity of the old water cart to do the flushing. The Chairman said he proposed to say a few words as Chairman of the Board. The Water- works question had been thrashed out to the very bottom. Thev had had both the consideration of the old cart and that of the new one under their consideration, and he need scarcely tell them that they had most substantial reasons for asking the Board to sanction the orderllg of a new one, in preference to using the old cart. They had not gone into details because it would be a mistake to do so just then, but he could assure every member of the Board that the Committee had gone into the subject most minutely, and they had, to speak metaphorically, tons of information from °th«r towns where the carts were in use. Under the new system they could do with 450 gallons at the outside, while under the old system it was necessary to use 3,000 gallons. Of course it was to the interest of the Waterworks Company that the Board should use 3,000 gallons of water in pre- ference to 450 gallons, and he could quite under- stand why it should be wanted to put the sluices in order. He wished them distinctly and clearly to understand that he had got in his possession in- formation respecting other towns as important as Newtown, where the new system was adopted. Out of the numher there were only two towns which flushed their sewers with 3,000 gallons of water, and one with a cart of 121 gallons but in every case it was working satisfactorily, and most efficient in towns where was used a cart of 400 or 450 gallons. They considered that the present cart, which would contain about 305 gallons, was not sufficient to flush the sewers of the town, but even if it were, he dare say it would do its work epual, at least, to the flushing^ which now took place, but it would not do it efficiently. The Com- mittee, therefore, asked the Board that the small expenditure of JE50 might be sanctioned to buy a cart that would flush the sewers amply. Con- tinuing, the Chairman went on to show that whatever the pressure of water the Company put on, the water had to run through a two and a half inch hose, it lost its force by going into a pipe twelve inches in diameter, whereas by the new system the water would run out of the cart through a six inch funnel, and the whole of the 450 gallons would go down the sewers at once. Mr. Edward Jones At what pressure ? The Chairman With the weight of the water itself. Mr. Edward Jones Is it at a pressure of 100 lbs. to the square inch. The Chairman pointed out that whatever press- ure there was, it was lost before it had gone down the pipe ten yards. The Board offered the Water- works Company £71 15s. They had declined it, and the Board now brought forward another scheme. Mr. E. Jones: Excuse me, but please confine the discussion to the disputed point about the water for flushing. The Company do not receive £112 per year. The Chairman: They have had £94 16s. 8d., and now they ask for for an increase of £28 6s. By the scheme which the Committee now present before the Board we shall bo able to do it for a less sum than that offered to the Waterworks Com- pany. To adopt this scheme will be a saving of hundreds of pounds. If it were necessary it can be shown in other towns that the same scheme has worked with profit, and proved that we are not trying a Utopian scheme. I ask you to support your Committee in this matter. They have taken infinite pains, and have met time after time, and if their ideas and hopes were not carried out it would not place them in a happy position. I can assure you that we are in earnest upon our recommenda- tions, and I ask you to-night to show by your votes that you have confidence in your committee. If we do not buy a water cart we shall have to spend J6150 in putting the sluices in good order. The Chairman made other remarks, and concluded by stating that the present system in vogue whereby 3,000 gallons were run into a 12 inch pipe through a 2 inch hose was like a boy trying to clean win- dows with a penny squirt. (Laughter.) Mr. David Owen said the point of dispute was whether the sewers would be properly flushed by the old or a new cart. They were all agreed to flushing by cart. The Chairman Mr. Jones brought it up. Mr. D. Owen said there was no doubt the experi- ment would answer, but why in the name of com- mon sense should the Board go in for buying a new cart ? Let them wear the old one out first. Mr. Edward Jones said he firmly believed the worthy Chairman of the Board was in earnest with a view to reduce the water rate, but he did not think the Water Company coveted a large supply to the town; they only wished to be paid for the amount of water that was consumed bv the town. (Mr. D. Owen: Hear, hear). A letter had been sent by the Company to the Board to that effect and the former were quite prepared to refer the case to arbitration, and to be paid only for water consumed. With regard to earnestness he should like to go in for reducing the water rate as much as anybody, but the present scheme did not satisfy his mind in any shape or form. It would only prove a failure. They talked of having a cart to hold 450 gallons, and to run it into the sewers through a six inch funnel, but he asked what use it would be ? How soon would the force of the water expend itself? By the time it had reached the Cioss it would be useless. It was all moonshine, and he told them faithfully that it was his firm conviction that the scheme would be a total failure. It would be a much better plan to hire a cart and try the scheme to see how it answered. The Chairman mentioned that by adopting the scheme the streets of most part of the town could be watered the same day, whereas now it was the habit to water one part one day and a different street the next. It was granted that under the present system a lot more water was used, but it stood to reason that water from a 2 inch hose runmngmto a 12 inch pipe would not be beneficial as 450 gallons going into the same pipe at a mouthful. Mr. Hughes I move that we hire a cart. Mr. Edward Jones said it was the engineer's scheme that the sewers were flushed through the sluices, and if the sluices were in proper order the pipes would retain the water. How many thousand gallons could they retain ? Sooner or later they would have to put them in proper repair, and he thought they should make a proper job of the work. Then they could talk about flushing with carts and other things, but until then the whole of the water would go for nothing. The Chairman But if we adopt the new scheme it will be unnecessary to spend the monev on the sluices. Mr. Francis said both the Chairman and Mr. Edw. Jones seemed pretty good engineers, but if the Board hired a cart, they would then be able to see what could be done, and whether Mr. Jones or the Chairman was the best engineer. That would be a fair test. Ultimately, after further discussion, the subject was ordered to stand adjourned to a special meet- ing of the Board. SANITARY. A circular from the Local Government Board with respect to the Rivers Pollution Act, and also amended regulations with regard to the importation of cholera, were referred to the Sanitary Committee without discussion. LEGAL OPINION. The question of the nuisance on the Severn Banks and Clifton-square was upon the agenda, but the subject was adjourned in order that the committee might have an opportunity of consider- ing the legal opinion which had been taken. THE QUALITY OF THE GAS. Mr. Morgan drew the attention of the Board to the quality of the gas supplied by the Newtown Gas Company. It was not up to the standard generally supplied, and he should like to know whether they had any power with regard to alter- ing the quality; also whether the Board could appoint an inspector of gas. Other towns did, and the law gave them the power of appointing a man who could visit the company's works daily and test the power and quality of the gas made. It was their duty as a public body to see that the ratepayers had proper light, and he asked if there was any [difficulty in the way of appointing an inspector for that purpose. The Chairman: You have asked me what I am able to answer. I quite agree with your remarks with regard to the quality and price of gas. Mr. Hughes I beg to propose to refer the whole matter to the lighting committee. Mr. Morgaa: That will not answer my question as to whether there is any difficulty in the way of appointing an inspector who can visit the gas works every day. The Chairman: I should like to add to your resolution, Mr. Hughes, the words, with power to consult a solicitor," and I will give you my reason. We are now paying £220 per year for light. Two or three years ago there were great complaints about the gas, when it cost us £200, and we in- creased the light; and even now the streets are none too light, and we may fairly expect to have to increase our present expenditure. I think we should go to the very root of this matter and ascer- tain the Board's position. I have been thinking the matter over for several days, and I find that if the Gas Company were a public company, we should have undoubtedly very great powers over them, for instance, with regard to the illuminating power, the maximum price and pressure of gas, but I understand they have no Act of Parliament. Mr. Morgan A provisional order. The Chairman: A provisional order is of no weight or power unless it is confirmed within seven days after the completion of the works and the publication of the provisional order. The price of gas charged us is 4s. 5d. or 4s. 6d. per thousand feet, and that is a very high price to pay. I think if we ascertained our position in the matter that possibly we may, by friendly overtures, induce the Gas Company, not only to reduce their charge in supplying gas to us, but also to the residents throughout the town generally. It is with that view that I ask Mr. Hughes, who proposed the resolution, that the matter be referred to the Lighting and Street Committee, to add that they be empowered to find out the position of the Board and consult a solicitor. If the Committee have no doubt upon the points they need not go to a solici- tor, even if you give them permission. Continuing the Chairman went on to point out one or two cases in which the Board had suffered through not engag- ing a solicitor. Mr. A. S. Cooke seconded the original proposition. He really did not see any occasion for the Board to bind itself by conferring on the Committee the power to consult a solicitor. If they presented a report to the Boards, and there were points upon which it would be well to get legal advice, then he thought the Board would be perfectly willing for the Committee to have that opinion. Mr Hy Roberts said it was all very well to talk of consulting a solicitor, but what was the cost each time (hear, hear) ? i M 0\ S Cooke said he had no objection, nor did he believe other members had, when it was absolutely necessary to consult a solicitor, but it was a dangerous precedent to set to give a com- mittee power to consult a lawyer upon a point which they did not know of. Mr. Thomas Jones and Mr. Ellison rose simultane- OU £ T. Jones I have not said a word all night yet (laughter). There has been a lot of talking as regards the lighting and that like. J wa*j Jones is a well experienced man both as rega s lighting and streets. I think we should go as tai as we can without a solicitor, and if we meet with a hard nut to crack, then we can call one in; but let's go as far as we can without him (laughter). But there is a man who has attacked me. He has not got one single small stone to throw. He has lavished away the ratepayers' money. The Chairman and several members: Order, order. Mr. T. Jones He has hit at me for one, and especially you. The Chairman: Mr. Jones, you must not bring those matters up now. Mr. Thomas Jones: He has thrown the rate- payers' money away (Cries of Order, order.") On the Cross there The Chairman: Order, order. You must sit, down if you talk like that. Mr. Thomas Jones Now he has hit you and mc and all the rest (Order, order). The Chairman remarked that one or two of the Committees had been convened during the past month and members had not turned up. That would show the apathy that existed in carrying on the work of the Board. He then referred to the Parish Councils Bill, and said it would soon be passed, and many members were anxious to know what would be their position under that Act. A solicitor could tell them. Mr. Roberts It is best not to meet troubles half- way. If they come we will meet them as best we can. Mr. David Owen hoped the Chairman did not press his point. The Chairman I do not press it, because it will throw us back another month. Mr. D. Owen: We have existed a number of years without having a solicitor, and I should be sorry to say that our Clerk was getting like myself (loud laughter.) I callI outrageous to empower a committee to get a solicitor's opinion until we know upon what point. Mr. T. Jones I do not want a solicitor. I am a solicitor to myself (laughter.) Mr. D. Owen We are told that in the multitude of counsel there is safety, and there is more wisdom in letting the whole 15 of us discuss the point rather than three or four, before we resort to such extreme measures as going to a solicitor. I dread the idea of going to these gentlemen unless it is neces- sary. Those who dabble with them generally come to grief. But they are only fallible men, and all of them would tell us our case was good; they blunder as much as the Newtown Local Board (loud laughter.) Mr. Edward Jones And a great deal more, too. The subject was then adjourned. DEFECTIVE SANITATION. The Medical Officer of Health reported that there had been one case of infection during the month, but as the house in which the case occurred was not indicated he was unable to advise the Board. He was given to understand that every care was taken by the medical gentleman in charge of the case, as to disinfectants and disinfecting, but the Board would remember that experience taught it was by these cases, in which there was a supposed necessity for secrecy, that the public health was most endangered. He had good reasons for believ- ing that many cases of infectious disease were for various reasons kept quiet, and the community at large subjected to dangers which would be avoided by the adoption of the Notification of Diseases Act. He had inspected many places in the district, and he ventured to refer the Board to his many reports upon the sewers, and the nuisances arising from the escape of sewer gas from the road grids. He thought it was time that some serious attention was given to the matter. The report was referred to the Sanitary Com- j mittee.

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