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MONTGOMERY COUNTY COUNCIL.

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MONTGOMERY COUNTY COUNCIL. MACHYNLLETH RIFLE RANGE. MEETING YESTERDAY. The quarterly meeting was held yesterday in the Town Hall, Welshpool. There were present Mr A C Humphrey3-Owen, M.P. (chairman) presiding, Capt, Mytton (vice-chairman), the Earl if Powis, Col Pryce-Jones, M.P., Messrs R Lloyd, R E Jones, Edward Jones, C J Newell, F V Ashton, E Bowen, M E Francis, Evan Chapmas, Eva" Lewis, David Hamer, D Williams, John Gittins, T Watkins, Hugh Lewis, Richard Jones, D Jone3. G W Griffiths, Rd Bees. J Thompson Williams, W Davies, Edward Green, G Kempster, W Forrester Addie, Thomas Pryce, A W Pryce-Jones, A W Williams-Wynn, J R Prvse, E Pryce Jones, Gwilym Evans, with Mr G D Harrison (clerk), Mr R Puwell (clerk's office), Mr W H Ho". and (chief constable), and Mr G A Hntohins (count;, surveyor). CORRESPONDENCE. A resolution from the Cheshire Count7 Council referring to swine fever and the registration of pig dc-a;ers was referred to the Contagious Diseases Committee.—A report from the Congress of Arch- aeological Societies was received —The Chairman remarked that it was a matter of historical interest and suggested it should be referred to a small com- mittee to report.—This was agreed to, and the chairman, vice-chairman, Messrs T Pryce, Hugh Lewis, R E Jones, Richard Sees,and A Wynn were appointed the committee.—A communication with reference to the mining industries of North Wales was received from Mr J H Roberts saying that money expended in founding a chair of mines would be r-oney w U spent, considering the output of minerals m odh Wales.—The Chairman said the mutter nid not call for a resolution n:¡til they further from the coot -n7t.tte.-Oii thi" motion of Mr Homer, seror ded by Co! Pryce-Jcnes, it was si greed tfcat thl, matter should be placed on the mintr.es. APPOINTMKNTS. Messrs Addle and Scot.r.-Owe?) were,re-appointed governors of the University College of North Wales, BHinjcr, r.be otl.r vacaricv to be filled at the nexr meeting.—Mr Edward Jones and Mis-S Steel-, Tal- garth Hall, were appointed governors CJ the County Governing Body. MACHYN LETH RANGE FIRING TO CEASE. Memorials against the continuation of firing across a main road at Machynlleth in connection with the rifle range were read.- On the suggestion of Colonel Piyce-Jones it was agreed to hear a statement by Capt. Walker, of the 5th Vol. Batl, S.W.D. and then to take Mr Lloyd's motion.—The Clerk read an extensively signed petition from the Isygarreg Parish Council against the range, point- it g out the danger to the public in going to Machynlleth market, on account of the firing.— The Chairman said there was a letter from Ili Richard Hughes, chairman of the Penegoes rmish Counci1, and Mr Edward Ellis, both opposing permission to fire.-Captain Walker in giving his statement,' said tin y should regard the expert opiniun of the War Office. After a full report and plans of the range were submitted to the officer commanding the 24th Regimental District, to the Inspector of Musketry, who visited the range, to Sir W Butter of the Western District, and to the Quarter Master General, Mr Campbell's objection to the range wash eard, but the War Office sanctioned the range. If they did not consider this expert evidence sufficient he would explain to them the precautions taken for the safety of the publie. The road in question crossed the line of fi-e at 420 yards in front of the targets, so that when firing at 500 or 600 yards, the bullets crossed the road. In order not to delay or inconvenience the public, a look-out man was stationed by a flag post on A HIGH HILL ADJACENT to and commanding this road for some distarce, so as soon as he saw a passenger, two small white flrfgs and a red flag were hoisted at 150 yards on each side of the line of fire. The regular distance was 100 yards, so they would see that they had ample margin in this case. Another look-out man was told off at the firing to watch the red flag being hoi-ted, and as soon as it was put up orders were given to unload and the red flag was not lowered or firing resumed until the passenger had reached the white flag on either side. Supposing either of these men neglected to do their duty some of the many ejes directed towards the target would detect passengers on the road before they came to the limit. The same system existed on Salisbury Plain. Firing was not allowed to take place on the Machynlleth range unless there was a sergt-in- structor there. He could not understand the objec- tions because these good people who objected did not know of the precautions that were taken for their safety. It had been said that this question had been put forward in order to get a diversion of the main road, and he was beginning to think there was some truth in the statement. Referring to Mr Campbell's complaint he had a letter from Sergt.- Instructor Wilson, giving the whole details.-Mr Lloyd interposed on a point of order, and he said the Council did not want secondary evidence. What they wanted from Capt Walker was facts of his own knowledge.—The Chairman ruled that Capt Walker could read the letter, which he did. In it it was stated that Mr Campbell GOT OUT OF THE TRAP and had a conversation on the road and drove some 40 yards after the last shot was fired when the flag was hoisted. Firing took place once a week in the winter and twice a week in the summer, and was on for one or two hours according to the number of passengers. On the Penarth range the road was much closer and he did not think there had been a case there of frighten. ing horses. If they were debarred at Machynlleth from firing at 5:0 or 600 yards they would have to rise the 400 yards' platform, which was only 20 yards from the road, whereas the 500 yards was 135 yards from the road. The height of the bullets depended on the distance and the position of the firer, but that had nothing to do with the case because they did not want to tire over people's heads for it would be extremely dangerous. The range had been in use since October, during which time no one bad been inter- fered with in any way and, this was most import- ant, there had not been an approach to an accident of any kind. When this range was in use before some years ago, and they fired across the road up to 800yds, there was more traffic, but he never heard that there was an accident. They obtained the permission of the County Council to fire across that road, and they erected that range at a cost of E100, about X60 of which had been generously subscribed by people in the locality. Finally, he pointed ont that the existence of the Volunteer Company depended upon that range. He challenged Mr Campbell or anyone TO PROVE THAT THEY HAD INTERFERED with the liberty of the public in any way, or that they were a source of danger (applause). -Plans of the range were put in by the County Surveyor.— Mr L! d then moved his resolution that the motion passed by the Council to give permission for the firing across the road be rescinded. He said when the application was before the Main Roads Com- mittee they were unanimous in opposing it. Capt Mytton who had some knowledge about musketry was very strong on the question, so was he (tho speaker) and the Chairman of the Main Roads Committee. So strong was the Chairman of the committee, that at his request, he moved this reso- lution. When the matter came before the Council they reversed the decision of the Main Roads Com- mittee. He should like to put the legal aspect of the question before the Chairman by asking him if the Council had the power to give such permission as they did in reference to this range. They only had the power as far as the traffic was concerned and the maintenance of the road.—Lord Powis rose to a point cf order, and asked what was the position of the Council in the matter.—Mr Lloyd said that with regard to the Wimbledou range. it was removed to Bisley to the inconvenience of all the volunteers in London. In that case, the Duke of Cambridge objected and made the War Office close the range (A Voice: He is a Duke). Why a Duke more than Thomas Jones when he objects ? (laughter anclVapplause).— The Chairman, replying to the quesfcon put by Lord Powis, said the Council had pie right to maintain the roa I and to DEAL WITH OBSTRUCTIONS on it, and when the resolution was passed by the Council giving permission for the firing, the Council meant that they would not put into foroe the power they had of dealing with the matter. The law re- mained that unless there was statutory authority, any citizen or local authority miht object to it. When the Council passed the resolution what they meant was that they would not interfere with the Volunteers firing. The Council had done the same with regard to Buttington where the tramway ran on the road.—In reply to Mr Lloyd, the Chairman said the resolution on the minute book was not technically correctly worded. — Mr Lloyd asked on whom the blame rested for that, the Clerk, Chair- man or the Council.-The Chairman All three.— 31r Lloyd proceeding said be maintained that the Council had no legal power to grant the permission and they had no right to disregard on a question o' that kind the opinion of peoDle who lived in the district. They often found that accidents happened through carelessness, through the men not being in a fit state and through inefficiency, and when the people of the neighbourhood protested they should I be liatened to. On the last occasion, something was said about the way the bullets travelled. I Capt. Walker was very careful as to that matter that morning. He (the speaker) did not know much about bullets, but he had it from the highest authority that from modern weapons the ballets travelled in a straight line. The bullets did not cross the road at a greater height than six feet, and if an accident occurred it would be toe late for the Council to withdraw the permission they had given. It int. rfered with the right and free passage of the Queen's highway. TF E WHOLE OF THE INHABITANTS PROTESTED against it, and the Council should respect their opinion, whether it would cost the War Office ;61,"00 or £ 10,000. He did not say anything against the Volunteers; some had done very goon service. ')1'e inquiries should have been made before the rifle range measure was passed. The officials ient down were from the War Office and their report was accepted. The War Office, like other bodies, was not a perfect body, nor had they proved to be lately he thought.—Mr Newell seconded the motion and said unfortunately the Council had overstepped its legal bounds in this matter.—Colonel Pryce- Jones said that as regarded the legal position of the Council, he took it that the Council gave permission as far as it could in order to encourage the Volun- teers. Mr Richard Rees remarked that as he presented the petition in favour of the range signed by the inhabitants of Machynlleth and all the members of the Urban District Council with the exception of one he must say that the question was in exactly the same position that day as before as regarded t he town of Machynlleth. He was quite surprised on looking over the memorial that had bjen presented that day, for it had been signed by a large number of people who did not use the road at all, as they lived 11 and 12 niiles away. It had been signed by farmers in the parish of Llanbrynm:iir whose farms were only three or four miles from the railway. Would thev us^rher^ad in question? The people who had signed the memorial had been misled. When the farmers were told that they would be shot or I delayed if they went to market or for a doctor, nnturaily they would be timid. The other day a lady came to his shop and said SOMETHING MUST BE DOXE t) the rifle range a3 their preacher said he was very much frightened when pa sing. He (the speaker) happened to be on the spot when this preacher passed and he told the Sergt-Instructor who was coming along. The preacher crossed the firing line as cool as a cucumber at.d stopped a little further on to watch the firing (laughter). So they would see that the country was not only misled by the supporters of the memorial but by the ministers as well. There was no danger at all, as every pre- caution was taken and there was no firing rn Mon- day, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Friday, and only across the road on Saturday. He was surprised that the Council for a moment eutertained Mr Lloyd's proposition (hear, hfar). It was an extra- ordinary thing that Mr Campbell could not get a member of the Council within 28 miles of Machyn- lleth to support the opposition. Where were the members for Uwchygarieg, Isygarreg, Pene- geos, and Darowen P Mr Campbell had had to go to Newtown and get Mr Lloyd to bring the motion forward. He thought it was the Council's duty to give every encouragement in these times to the Volunteer movement (applause).—Mr G W Griffiths also spoke against the motion. He had been a volunteer for forty years and had shot over this range, but had never known an accident to occur, when the district was more thickly populated than at the present time.—Mr J Thompson mentioned an instance at Llanidloes when a stray bullet from the range went through the back door of the White Lion and penetrated the clothing of some- one within (laughter). It was no laughing matter when he would say that a signalman had been shot. Captain Mytton said Mr Lloyd hrd remarked that he (the speaker) KNEW SOMETHING ABOUT MUSKFTRY and had saiJ it was an objectionable practice to fire across the public road, but he thought these objections were done away with when the p!ans had been submitted to all the officials, as well Mr Campbell's complaint to the War I ifrice, who had approved of the range. The debate had been an amusing one about people being terrified and about danger, They all lived in danger every hour. He hoped the Council would not accede to Mr Lloyd's request.- Colonel Pryce-Jones /remarked with re- gard to people going to the range who were not fully capable of taking charge of a rifle, that before a volunteer was allowed to go to the range he bad to put in at least ten drills to make himself efficient and in addition to that there was a sergeant- instructor at the tange and if there was a man in attendance not capable of firing he would not be allowed to. Surely the Council could trust men in their capacity as volunteers, as in the capacity of civilians. With reference to Wimbledon range, it was not a question of shooting across a road thare. With regard to the Machynlleth range there was many not so well protected in the country. Mr Gittins supported the motion and said the resolu. tion on the books was irregular, and was obtained under a misapprehension. He did not say Mr Rees intentionally misled the Council, but he under- stood that there was no opposition to the range from the district. The memorial, which Mr Rees had tried: to bring into discredit, thev must con- sider. They were all highly in favour of the volunteer movement, but with all the gentlemen connected with the volunteers, he considered that THE SAFETY OF THE PUBLIC was worthy of equal consideration. Mr Rees said that when he presented the memorial in favour of the range there was no objection even from Mr Campbell, who subscribed a guinea towards it.- Mr T Watkin said he voted on the understanding that there was no opposition to the range. Mr Rees, therefore, had misled the Council.—Mr Kempster said that from the evidence of Captain Walker it seemed impossible that the public could be injured.—Mr Richard Jones asked what the passing of the motion would involve, aid the Chair- man replied that if the resolution were rescinded the matter would be put back in the same position as when the recommendation was first made. Pro- ceeding, he said present rifles did not require so great an elevation as those Dreviouslv in use, and they had the handsome admission from Captain Walker that it would be dangerous to fire over people's heads. They all agreed in admiring the Volunteers and there was not a man who was not a warm supporter of Volunteers, but if they made themselves disagreeable to a large section of the community in which they lived there was great danger to the Volunteers and to the district at large. Here they had evidence that a large section of the people who would be affected by the range p reasonably or unreasonably objected seriously to the existence of the rauge. Therefore, it seemed to him that the right course would be to get a plan upon which all parties would agree. Capt Walker had mentioned the suggestion as to division of the road. That seemed to be the solution of the whole difficulty. His view was that thev should APPROACH THE WAR OFFICE and the neighbourhood in question, and the county might fairly do their part in making an improve- ment, partly on local and partly on national grounds.—Mr Lloyd replied to the arguments. He said Mr Campbell had asked him to say that he gave a contribution to the Volunteer movement at Machynlleth, but had no idea that the range firing was to be across the road. Referring to Mr Rees' remarks that Mr Campbell had to go to Newtown to get one to take up the case, Mr Lloyd said he was opposed to the range from the start. As to the remark that people from Hirnant and those places would take train to Machynlleth, surely those people would not send all their stock to Mach- ynlleth fair by rail. He was in favour of the Volunteer movement, but he was more in favour of the safety of the publi-Replying to the Earl of Powis, Mr Rees said no firing took place on the range on market days.—Mr Lloyd replied that the road was there in use on all days, besides market days. Notwithstanding the strong argument from Machynlleth, he thought the War Office should accept the responsibility for the range. If anything happened then the War office would be responsible. — Mr Watkin suggested that the discussion be post- poued so that the War Office and tt e local author-- ties at Machynlleth be communicated with on the question of the diversion of the main road.—The Chairman said he cnuld not allow that to go before the meeting after the full discussion, and after the motion had been replied to. He thought, therefore, they should VOTE ON THE MOTI( N and take what course seemed open to them after- wards, possibly at a special meeting later on.—On being put to tbe meeting, for Nir Lloyd's motion there were 15 and against 14.- In reply to Mr A W Pryce-Jones, the Chairman said the next procedure would be for the Clerk to take proceedings to prevent a nuisance by the firing.—Mr Lloyd asked that as the motion w&s carried the Clerk should acquaint the commanding officer of the Volunteer co'ps and the War Office, and let the War Office take the re- sponsil ility.-Replying to Colonel Pryce-Jones, the Chairman said the Volunteers could use the range at their own risk. Mr Campbell or anybody else could indict them for a nuisance.- Air Lloyd added that the only way out of the difficulty was the one suggested by the Chairman as to the diversion of the road, and in this the Council would give every help. Colonel Pryce-Jones moved that the Council rais-e no objection to the Volunteers firing over the main road.—The Chairman said he could not allow the motion.-C(lonel Pryce-Jones said the Volunteers were in a worse position now than before.—The next business was then taken. THE FORTHCOMING ELECTION. The Finance and General Purposes Committee recommended the following dates for 'the County Council Election in March next:—Nomination, Tuesday, 31areli 5th; poll, Saturday, March 9th. They suggested that the annual Council meeting should be held on Monday, March 18th, at New- town.—The question of appointing a Returning Officer for the election was next gone into.—Mr Edward Jones moved, and Mr Bowen seconded, that Mr Llewelyn Phillips, of Llanidloes, b? ap. pointed. The only other name before the meeting, I was that of Mr Martin Woosnam, of Newtown, who has on several previous occasions served the Council in this capacily. His claims to the office I were urged by Colonel Pryce-Jones and Mr Thomas Watk.n. Voting was by ballot and resulted as follows :-Mr Woosnam, 17; Mr Phillips, 11. Mr Woosnam was consequently declared appointed. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS. Upon the recemmendation of the Finance Committee, it was agreed, in regard to the building of Machynlleth Police Station, to accept the offer of Mr J Hamer Jones to advance zC300 at -63 per cent, and also the offer of Mr Fairies-Hum- phreys to advance the balance at Y,31 per cent.— It was decided that the inspector of weights and measures should be instructed to procure samples for analysis under the Sale of Food and Drugs Act, the details to be settled by the Chief Constable.— In his report the Chief Constable stated that during the quarter ending 30th November sheep scab broke out on 13 farms; 115 sheep were attacked; of these two died and the remainder were still affected. There was a decrease of three outbreaks and an increase of 32 sheep attacked by the disease as compared with the corresponding quarter of last year. During the quarter ending 3Lh September 11 persons were summoned before the justices for offences against the Act, of whom seven were con- victed and four discharged. — The reports of the county surveyor au't the ilaiu Roa is Committee Wi're also presented. GLANDOVEY RAILWAY BRIDGE. Communications were received from the Meiion- eth County, the Machynlleth Urban, and the Isgarreg Parish Councils drawing the attention of the Council to tha no,"Le published by the Cam- brian Railways Company stating that they intended applying to Parliameut next Session for an act authorising them to construct a fixed bridge across the River Dovev from Glan(lovey Junction. All the above Bodies asked the Council to join with them in opposing the passage of the mesaure through Parliament. They pointed out that the substitution of a fixed bridge for the present swing or opening bridge would seriously interfere with the navagation of the River Dovey. Speaking on behalf of the Cambrian Railways Company, the Chairman eakl this swing bridge had not been opened for a. great number of years. When the railway was first made there was a good deal of traffic on this particular part of the river, small coasters going up as far as Derwenlas. All this traffic had uow ceased. The present swing bridge was of light construction and the modern engines of the Cambrian Company were not able to pass over it. This made the working of the Company more expensive and more inconvenient to the public, because with the light engines they were not able to keep such good time, Under the circum- stances he did not think the change of bridges would involve any sei iou3 public inconvenience, and whatever inconvenience might be caused would be more than counter balanced by a better train ser- vice. Of course as Chairman, both o tire Council and of the Company, he was in a difficult position. He hoped the Council would consider what he had said as simply representing the Company, and he would ask them to deal with the matter with the vice.chairman in the chair. Captain Mytton then took the chair, and in the course of a few remarks said, with regard to the Isygarreg Parish Council, that he thought it was a kind of dog in the manger business. He did not think they ought to tie the hands of the Railway Company. Colonel Pryce-Jones was in favour of appointing a committee to go into this matter. He was largely interested in commercial matter?, and was not at all satisfied with the way in which the Cam. brian Railways Company had met the wants of the public in the last few years. Some years ago, they made great improvements, but latterly he was bound to say that the general public of not only Montgomeryshire, but also of the adjoining counties, had, in his opinion suffered immensely from their want of enterprise. More especially was this the case in the neighbourhood of Aberystwyth. They were reducing the number of trains, and the trains that did run did not stop at the various stations as they ought to do. They were also be- hind-hand in many other matters which he would not mention then. He meant to take a prominent part in trying to get better value from the Cam- brian Company than had been obtained during the past. Mr Thomas Watkin (interrupting) Are we in order in discussiug the general management of the Cmbrit n Railways Company ? Colon Pryce-Jones then proposed that a com- mittee b appointed with power to act in opposition to this bill, and with a view to getting greater facilities from the Cambrian Company than at present conceded. In seconding Mr Richard Rees said that on both sides of the river Dovey there was strong opposi- tion to the idea of a fixed bridge. When the present bridge was about to be erected there was so much opposition that the Company were induced to make it into a drawbridge. The river was navigable for three miles past the bridge and there were slate quarries on both aides. If a fixed bridge were put up it would render traffic by water im- possible and the district would be quite in the hands of the Cambrian Railway Company. He suggested that the committee, if appointed, should confer with the Merioneth County Council on the matter. Mr Richard Lloyd asked how this question affected them as a County Council. It was proposed to offer opposition to this Bill when promoted in Parliament, Such a process would necessarily entail considerable cost. Could anyone say that the River Dovey was navigable beyond that bridge? Had anyone ever seen the bridge drawn up for vessels to pass under it ? Mr Rees Certainly; I have seen it. Mr Lloyd Not for many years. A fixed bridge would not now entail the smallest inconvenience on the public. The matter does not affect us and we should be careful not to throw away public money. Mr G Kempster thought the Council represented the county as a whole. Mr Lloyd seemed to sug- gest that the top end of Montgomeryshire was of no interest to them, but the ratepayers there wanted looking after as well as those of the lower end. Mr C J Newell: Does it affect our county or Merioneth ? Are the quarries in Montgomeryshire) or Merionethshire ? Mr Rees: They are on both sides of the Dovey, I and therefore some of them are in our county. Col Pryce-Jones again said that they ought to have a committee to watch this mattei and also to formulate certain grievances which the county, as a whole, had against the Cambrian Company. Mr Watkin thought the people of the locality affected ought to look to the matter themselves. Mr Rees said the reason that the County Council had been appealed to was that the Machynlleth Council did not think they themselves had sufficient power to oppose the Bill. Mr Humphreys-Owen remarked that after Christmas Mr Denniss would be going to Mach- ynlleth to coufer with the Urban Council on the matter. There were two clear months before the Bill could possibly come before Parliament. It was then decided, on Mr Humphreys-Owen's suggestion, to defer the further consideration of these communications to a special adjourned meet- ingof the Council to take place at the end of January, when the county surveyor will present a repol t on the matter.

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