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POOtt LAW CONFLUENCE AT !…
POOtt LAW CONFLUENCE AT SHRE vvSBURY. A meeting of Guardians and of clerk- to Boards of Guardians in Shropshire was held on Thr.rcUy, Oct. 21st, at the Board Room of the Atcham Un>ir>, Shrewsbury. The Lord-Lieutenant of the County (the l'corl of Bradford; presided, and there were also present the Riht Hon. J. Scl.iter Booth, M.P., President of the Local Government Board, Mr J. T. Hibbert, Manchester, Mr Albert Pell, H.P., Mr Rathbone, M.P., Liverpool, Mr Uvedale Cor- bett, Local Government Board Inspector, Mr E. J. Dansey, Assistant Insoector, Mr Corry (private secretary to Mr Disraeli), Jleasrs John Loxdale, Atcham, W. L. Dodgson, The Mo.r, Ludlow, Cecil T. Parker, Stoke Lodge, Lud.ow, Joseph Everest, Atcham, J. Southam, Atcaana, H. >-an f.-rd, Atcharn, E. Lawreaoa, Wellington, O. O. Walker, LilleahalL J. A. Wolryehe Whitmor?, Bridgnorth, Riou G. Benson, Church Stretton, C. 1.1. Jones,Atcham, S. AI. Millar, Forden, J. Whittak-^ Atcham. Lev. J. Brooke, Shifnal, J. M. Rovde >'a*s, G. W- Wheeier, Madeley, Rev. G. Edwards, Madeiy, Eev. The*. Ulead owe, Atcham, Bev. J. G. Corser, Ludlow, Jiev. J. L. Whatmose, St. Mary's, Bridgnorth, James _t age,, Madeiey, W. Reynolds, Bridgnorth Union, Kev. R. E. Warren, Atcham, J. E. Severn, Atcfiam, H. Dickenson, Madeley Union, I J. M. Southwell, Bridgnorth, Alfred Salway, Ludlow Union, W. Layton Lowndes, Madeley Union, Charles 1 Wadlow, Church Stretton, H. J. Ward, Bridgnorth, G. Smythe, R.N., Bridgnorth, VV. H. Wavne, Atcham, J. R. Ke uyon, Q.C., Rev E. G. Child, Cieobury Mortimer, Rev F. Bixrd, Creasage, Rev H. O. Wilson, Church Stretton, S. Ward, Oswestry, Waiter Minor, Itlarket Drayton, Samuel Minor, Wellington, Evan Davies, Bridgaoith, Edward Jcnes, vice-chairman of Oswestry Incorporation, Samuel Powell, Forden L'niop, George Evans, Forden, S. Miller, Forden, Sir Baldwin Leight<.n, Atcham, Henry 3,- J. Bather. Rev Edward Warter, Atchsm, John Bather, A::ham, Sir üffiq Wakemaa, Bart., Rev. J. Mitchell, Aiciam, Richard H. Coiiey, Bridgnorth, Stanley L-ightou, Oswev.ry, S. K. Main waring, Eilesmere, Robert Peel A'nelstone, Whitchurch, Thomas Poole, Clun, William Wilding, Montgomery, Rev. G. A. Salisbury, Atcham, Jjhn II. Scrymsher, Atcham, Rev. J. B. Davies, Wellington, William Hawaii, Whitchurch, John Bateiaan, Eilesmere, John Hudson, Atcham, Thos. Hudson, Atcham, J. L. Hodgson, Eilesmere, H. Hurle, treasurer, George Townsend. John Calcott, rL Bucaniil, and Rev. T. Bearcroft, Alchaui, H. Lee, Whit, church, Rev. W. Reynolds, Bridgnorth, Rev. G. J. Davies- Ludlow, H. :1. Bathurst, Madeley, E. lustone, Madeley, J. Instone, Madeley, C. C. Cotes, M.P-, R. Jasper More, Clun, T. Turner, Atcham, T. B. Baker, Hardwicke Glou- cester, Rev. W. M. Rowland, Clun Union, Rev. A. ihursbv, Pelham, Atcham, &c., &c. The Noble PRESIDENT, in opening the proceedings, said that a short time ago he was asked to preside over a meet- in- of Guardians ana others interested inouc-door relief,and as it was a subject of so great importance, and of so much interest to both rich and poor, he did not hesitate to com- ply. It was a subject which appeared to him of all sub- jects the most desirable to have frequently, quietly, and amicably discussed. No one was a greater admirer than his lordship was of our system of local government in this country, and his own opinion was that the less it was inter- fered with by central authorities the better as a rule, but this being so, it was the more necessary and desirable that our system should be a good one, our rules well considered, and that the practice in diiferent unions should to a great degree be alike. He knew that there were a great many gentlemen there who would probably be anxious to give their opinions on this subject, and he foresaw it would be verv difficult for them to have sufficient time to really and tto roughly discuss these subjects, and he would not detain them any longer but would call on Mr W. Layton Lowndes, Chairman of the Madeley Union, to read a paper on THE RELATIVE ADVANTAGES OF IN-DOOli AND OCT-DOOR RELIEF. Mr LAYTON LOWNDES said Our presence here to-day is a proof of the interest we feel in solving that great pro- blem—the best mode of administering relief how to satisfy the right to relief out of a public fund given by law to every destitute person, without at the same time breaking down the incentives to prudence and foresight which we all wish to inculcate upon those with whom we are brought in contact. We are guardians of the poor, appointed to carry out the provisions of the Poor Law Amendment Act in the soirit of that law—on the one hand relieving destitution, on the other attaching such conditions to the relief afforded a may deter those not actually destitute from becoming branded with the stigma of pauperism.* The great var.a- ti"llS in the amount of pauperism in the fifteen unions in this county, even in unions placed under similar conditions, show that guardians have very varying ideas of the duties they are chosen to perform, and of the principles of the law which they are appointed to administer and I hope the discussion to-day will lead the way to a better appreci- ation of the principles, and to more uniform and definite rules by which we may carry those principles into practice. The distinguishing principle of the Poor Law is that des- titution, and not poverty, is the sole title to relief. This is no new principle. It was the spirit of eur early pauper legislation, which was originally intended to restrain vagrancy, or, in the language of t.ue Act, to keep sturdy vagabonds and valiant beggars to continual labour," and em- bodied two hundred years after in the 4cird of Elizabeth. It is matter of history how the relaxation of this principle almost brought ruin upon the land; how the labouring classes generally were partially supported at the weekly pav-tabfe; how the progressive increase of the rates drove land out of cultivation, so that one parish at least—that of Cholesburv, in Buckinghamshire—was entirely aban- doned to pauperism. To remedy this the Act of 18.34 was passed, and the following words from the report of the Poor Law Commissioners, on which the present law was f unded. give the principle to which I wish to call your attention: —" The express or implied ground of application is that the applicant is in danger of perishing from want. Requesting to be rescued from that danger out of the pro- Requesting to be rescued from that danger out of the pro- perty of others, he must accept asÛstance on the terms, whatever they may be, which the common welfare re- quires.+ We, who attend the meetings of the Boaris of Guardians, can recall cases where an old man or woman seeks an allowance of 18. 6d. a week, advocated, it may be, by the guardian of the parish, because he or she would be better off, or more comfortable, with it." There is no pretence or fear of destitution, although the poverty may be unquestionable. The money is given, and the guardians feel they have done a very kind and charitable action, but a charity supplied from other persons' pockets, while they forget they are doing an injury to those who contribute to the fund (often little removed above the applicant), and are applying funds entrusted to their care to a purpose not contemplated by the instrument which gives them the power. I should like to see painted on the walls of every Board room the words, Destitution, not poverty, relieved here." It would remind the Board of the point of view from which every application should be regarded, and would be useful to the applicant, as showing him the justice of the decision arrived at. Having then arrived at the point that destitution, and that only, gives a legal claim to relief, the all-important question follows what is the best way of giving this relief ? At the outset we are met by the difficulty that any legal c'aim to be relieved out of a public fund is a direct discour- agement to make provision either for sickness or old age. A man breaks his lej and applies for reiki. His wife and children are destitute. He is asked wric-n-r hc i i:l a berefit club, if net, why he io -:Jt ? Or an oid man and-in* wife come to the Btwrd (gentr-y the man sends his %vif.« to represent him), lie has befen ;n receipt of good alt his life, but iastead o: laying by anything has spent all lie could s?*re (probibly ax-«iv) ii; drink. Ei'h.-r of thtse men might reply, Why .should 1 deprive mvself of any iudulgerc-, when I hav,- the po-y,* ras 4 r.s a benefit club?" And in avnt xxnious th.-SE 0.3-3 T.-OUH get the coveted ont-door relief, and are in {. r^evice famiUsr to moat of xx^> If" is al>bOiutv!j- iieoe^irv to -uluuu'.ster without undermining provident h^.w. This 1,-g.J ciai-i to relief gives a corresponding right to those vyno contribute to the fund (whose representatives tha guardians are) to prescribe the form which the relief shall take, and we have to determine, therefore, whether we will give in or out-door relief. I am speaking now generally, and not as to individual cases. The fraDJr3 of the Poor'Law AmendiuL-rt Act of 1834 certainly contemplated that in- door relief should be the rule, and out-door relief the ex- c.-ption. The Commissioners, in their enquiries into the working of the podr law, found that, -where the workhouse ,L 1 1. r.1*- .1' 6.L t;3I c;w uccu onr.^iy aypuea, iuere was a lower amount of paupErk" They found that this was the principle of the o de** legislation, that in 1T23, in conseoixence of the abuses which had gradually crept in since the Act of 43rd Elizabeth, an Act was passed prohioiting relief to those who refused t- enter the workhouse. + Re.ief \^a3 considered a burthen to the payors and a degreaation to the receiversC(and to be ma-ed as "ch by a badge)-a remedy for unexpected an-1 a mitigatiou of the punishment inflicted by n-Mire" -n extravagance and improvidence. But in 1796 an Act was passed which the Commtsnoners describe as the ereat and fatal deviation from our former policy." It re- co-miz-d as obiect< of relief industrioxxs persons, and enabled thfmagiuate^at his just and pnf r discretion to order re- lief to be given in a way which shoul. not be injurious to their comfort, domestic situation, "1d happiness. Mr Pitt's Bill went still further: it admired witbin tie pale of paupcrianj, not onlv the industrious labourer, but the per- son., with property, and enabled him, when possessed 01 land, E.ot.oaly to retain it while an applicant, for re.ief, but to be supplied at the expense of the parish with a cow. It is true that this Bill was dropped, but as it was not an indi- vidual but a Government measure, it may be cited as ovi- d?:.ee of the general feeling on the subject.§ From to^ia period commenced that flood of pauperism which gradually rose higher and higher until ifc threatened to involve the country in ruin.^ We see, then, that this plan of in-door relief was no nev'-j'-invent^d scheme of the Poor Law Com- missi m. In the ISth century, while the Act of the 9th waa ^rce> n? 8reat harm arose on its repeal evils'if the greatest magnitude—u,of,seen, no doubt, by the b -aevolect authors of tne Act of 36 George III —gradually soread over the country, acting with more intensity in some rarts than in others,but existent everywhere. It was fouuJ t,where an efficient system of in-door relief was adopted at Bii^ha-u, Southwell, Cookoam, and a few oth~r t.I -oes- pauperism had b»en kept down, while the character -■d c.,Ddition of the labourer had been proportionately im- proved. The CommL-sioners, therefore, reasoning from in- SSor, made in-door reluf the keystone of the present ey-itern, and the wisdom o-' their judgment is proved by tae ?:.t ♦Mtin proportion as h*ve a strict administration ll lief so we find a low rate- of For some vears after the passing of the new »aw the amount expended time when »' feeling ol .eeoority mdncej PuardianTto relax their vigilance. An increased amount f nt- "ief was giver.; gua Jiang came into ofiice who w-e unaware of, or had forgotten the l^ns from winch
Advertising
See Tai,,11J Paupe- F u. t :Seo i.eport of Poor La", C01,'m, ,) ,r;, I K^^of'Poor'La^Commi.isioners^ J30. | Report ef Poor Law CocmussKners, page 130.
[No title]
the Ac" of 1334 was intended to rescue the country a-. *• peaking generally, out-relief became once more the r.'non form of relieving, not only destitution, but also Poverty. A patient, recovering from his first attack of gout, adheres strictly to the regimen prescribed by his doctor. As health aad strength return, and the recollection doctor. As health and strength return, and the recollection of the twinges becomes less vivid, he relaxes the precau- tions he puts himself on an improved dietary,and gradually tions he puts himself on an improved dietary,and gradually qualifies himself for a return of the malady. The cotton famine in Lancashire an I the distress in the east of London I called public attention to the inefficient way in which the poor law was administered, and a general impression now prevails that we should return to a more strict administra- tion, and that for the future in-door relief should be the I rule and out-door the exception. And here it may interest you to show briefly the effects of the introduction of the amended law in this country. No doubt greater abases had arisen in the southern counties, still Mr Day, the assistant- commissioner, in his report on Shropshire, in 183G, says :— The vices of the south may be here severally traced,though in infancy, and if they have not yet sprung unexpectedly into mature vigour, it has been owing either to the fortune of circumstance than to providence of superior manage- ment." And further on he says" The prohibition of all out-door relief as far as practicable, and the strict auimnxs- I tration of the workhouse system on the one ha.nd and in- creased facilities and securitiet for insurances on the other, would, I believe, in a few years introduce the legitimate remedy." 1 have drawn up a table, giving the average annual expenditure to the poor for the three years preced- ill" the formation of Unions, and the expenditure for the several years ending Lady-day 1838, 1848, 1858, 18'38, and 1374. The large decrease in the year 1833, when the amended law was being newly administered, is most re- markable, Atcham showing a decrease of 49 per cent. Bridgnorth and Drayton of 43 per cent, Wellington of 49 per cent, and so on in varying proportions down to Elles- mere, which shows the smallest, but even that a large one of 19 per cent. The good resolutions of the guardians, however, seem to have given way. Perhaps they forget that under the old system, some years previously, the rates in the parish of Worn bridge were 27a in the pound on the rack rent, and the overseers were obliged to apply to the sessions for a rate in aid. Accordingly, we find that only two Uiii,)ns A! chain and D:ayton- have gradually diminished their expenditure to the poor from the year 1838 to the present time. Shifnal and Wem stand now at about the same figure as they did in 1338, although the popula, tion of the one has increased 2,000, and that of the other 500. Newport Union, with the same number of population in 1S7I as in 1831, is the only Union where the expenditure in IS71 as in 1831, is the only Union where the expenditure for 1874 not only is nearly double what it was in 1338, but actually exceeds that of the_ average of the three years preceding the formation of the Union by £ Go7. It is true that these are only pecuniary results, bus a reduction of pauperism — the main object of our eff always shows a lightening of the ratepayers' burden. And here I may be permitted to say how grateful we, in this county, feel to the guardians to the Atcham union, who, under the able guidance of their late chairman, have undeviatingly carried out the principles laid down by the Commissioners, often under very adverse criticism, to the great benefit of the rate-paying and rate-receiving clais^s. The same remark applies to the Drayton union. These anions should he an example to be followed by the other unions—in this county especially. When the Shrews- bury Incorporation was dissolved, and the parishes added to the Atcham uniou, great fears were entertained as to the result. The result has, however, justified those who are responsible for the change, and I hope some one will presently describe the effect of suddenly applying a strict system of administration to an urban population of 23,000 people. An objection to the strict application of the work. house test is the extra expense it will entail I have con- tinually heard it urged but it has been so frequently and completely disposed of that I hardly think it necessary to say much about it. Mr Wodehouse, in his report, gives this illustration: "A family applies for relief if they are given out-relief to the amount of four shillings a week they will be satisfied; if they 30me into the workhouse their maintenance will cost ten shillings a week. The economists, therefore, argue that by giving out-relief they will save six shillings a week. The very same Guardiani acknowledge that the house is not accepted in more than one case in ten. By offering the Workhouse, then, in ten such cases the Guardi- ans would indeed lose six shillings a week in the one case in which it was accepted, but in each of the remaining nine cases they would save four shillings so that their total gain upon the ten cases would amount to thirty shillings a week!" The Chairman of the Wellington Union will, I hope, give us his experience on this point. It is enough to say that wherever a strict administration has been Cèrried out the ratepayers have been relieved, not burdened by it. An- other objection is insufficient workhouse accommodation. It is evident we cannot carry on our business properly without adequate machinery but I believe it will always answer to provide that machinery if we had the courage to use it when we had provided it. In my own Union some years ago our out-relief amounted to more than S3,000 a year—we had an insufficient workhouse, and made little use of what we had. We have now purchased seven acres of land and built a new house. Last year we paid 21,171 for out relief, and the total number of paupers has declined more than one half. The sum of £630, which we pay annually for instalment and interest on money borrowed is money very pro;itably expended. We have now passed through a prosperous time. Wages have risen pauperism has decreased; but the time may come —and there are signs of it already. in the manufacturing districts-when greater pressure will be thrown upon the Boards of Guardians. We cannot improve the machinery when there is a pressure of work to be done. If there be insufficient accommodation in our workhouses, now is the time for supplying it, that it may be ready when it k wanted. Put it by no means follows that a. strict administration means a crowded workhouse. A large number of applicants refuse relief on such terms, and j show their love of independence by supporting themselves out of the workhouse. In fact, in looking at the statistics of pauperism for this county, 'J we find that in half the Unions there i3 a larger proportion to population of in-door paupers than there is in the Atcham Union, the reason being the knowledge that if provision be not made for sick- ness and old age, relief will only be given in the Work- house. This induces provident habits, and persuades rela- tives to assist, although they may not be compellable by law to do so. But in order to bring this feeling home to those whom it concerns, there must be a certainty about our decisions. It must not be a matter of chance whether an applicant will or will not get the coveted out-relief. As long as this uncertainty prevails he will speculate on the chance, and trust to his luck. Still less must it depend on the will of the applicant in what manner the relief be afforded him. I have already said that a legal claim to relief gives a corresponding right to specify the kind of relief. Is this always acted on ? The applicant comes into the room, and when all the circumstances have been fully gone into, the chairman gives the decision of the guardians. Bat relief is refused. If you cannot get on, you must come into the House." The applicant says, Never. I have paid rates all my life, and I will sooner die in a ditch," thus claiming as a right that particular form of relief which he prefers, dictating to the Board what relief they should give him. However, the guardians stand firm. The ap- plication is renewed at a future time. The applicant has in the meantime interested some guardians on his behalf, who come to speak for him, as it is called. This time the Board is pliable. Cut-relief is granted. It is this element of uncertainty in the decisions of a Board which creates such a disastrous effect upon the minds of those who seek relief, and prevents the administration of relief from acting as a stimulus to exertion in the strong and healthy towards pro- viding their own support in sickness and old age. This brings us to the question of rules for the administration of relief. Very few Boards have any definite written rules which may be referred to. The Ateham Union is the only one I know of in the county, and much of their success in reducing pauperism arises from their having such rules. and acting upon them. Many guardians seem afraid of rules, and speak of hard and fast rules as something to be avoided, curtailing the liberty of the Board in dealing with cases—in fact, being rather a sign of weakness than of strength. But, after all, a rule is merely the result of j experience, gained from long practice, of the best way of treating a certain class of cases. I believe there is scarcely any subject to which "hard and fast rules," as they are derisively called, are so generally applicable as to Poor Law administration. Those who have studied the operation of me roor ijaws irom early times must see that almost always exceptions have broken down the original rules-that is, because the rules were not hard and fast." *7 The Commissioners in 1834, said "The bane of all pauper legislation has been tne legslating for extreme cases. Every exception, every violation of the general rule to meet a real c ise of unusual hardship lets in a whole class of fraudulent cases, by which tuat rule must in time be destroyed. Where cases of real hardship occur, the remedy must be applied by indi- vidual charity, a virtue for which no system of compulsory relief can be%or ought to be. substituted." This gives the key to the wno e system. We are legally bound ito relieve done by fixed and certain rules, th-t everv^n relief so certain and so deterrent ttut every encouragement may be given to self heln Private charity must mitig-,tte the" merciful security" (as t„ nu,0 n,^ ti \.g, i}own the rule uaay occur with the object indLttd'by iiftSe0'3' made in order to allow guardians to give out-rdief ^certain r ^Vhe thatTv"? case in taose classes was to have cut-relief. The result !V/Q been that m many L mons the exceptions specified in that order have become rules, and out-relief, as of course^is 4vet to these cases Tne great abuses of out-door relief,' andThe difficulty of showing to those most concerned the evil effects it not only produces, but propagates, have made some wish fi.r a repeal of the poor laws. Would not the remedy be worse than the disease ? Others, with more reason, wish the Legislature to take action, and either abolish entirely out- relief or restrict its application. Is this necessary ? Surely we have the remedy in our hands, if we are willing ti apply it. Out-relief judiciously used may be of great advan- tage, It may be made an actual sWrnulcs to steadiness and exertion. When an old man had lived a temperate life, doing all he can to provide for old ^age, but has failed from no fault of his ov/11, and becomes destitute, in such a ca-:e (provided always there is no one legally bound to support him) the indulgence of out-relief may be well extended. The advantages to the really destitute of in-door relief can hardly be sufficiently estimated. It is tho only adequate relief that can, from the nature of the case, be givey. Sufficient food, Ciothing, and lodging are provided. If sick, we Know that the sick man has the medical extras himself. The extra diet ordered by the medical officer, that the remedies may have fair play, goes to the patient, instead of being cooked for the lamily dinner, as is too often the case when the sick Inan h,ts out-relief. In the same way the children of the widow are property ciotued, fed, and taught at the work- house IOchool, wnen destuixtion compels her to part with them. The treatment in deViil of the n-nal of nnnli-
Advertising
:1 See Table of Pauperisai. r ReD irt of the P.),,r Law Commissioners, la74. Page 263.
COMPARATIVE TABLE OF PAUPERISM…
[ cation for relief will shortly be discussed. We may not have time to go through the whole list. Our progress will very much depend upon whether we can agree in the first instance on the general principles on which we are to ad- minister relief. I do not for one moment suppose that what I have said will change the opinion af anyone here present. I shall be satisfied if those who differ from me are induced to consider the facts brought forward. I have endeavoixred to show you that theory and practice prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that relief in the workhouse is the only means of satisfying the legal claim which every destitute person has, without undermining the spirit of self-reliance. And I feel sure that no interposition of the Legislature will be necessary to check the present expenditure on out-relief if we can only keep steadily in view the fact that destitu- tion, not poverty, gives the only claim to relief from the poor-rate; and that, in order to carry out the intention of the law we are appointed to administer, in-door relief should be the rule and out.door the exception. COMPARATIVE TABLE OF PAUPERISM IX 1HS COUWTR OF SALOP. Nnmber of 1 Proportion One pauper p paupers per cent, to; to 2 relieved on population No. of c~ Jan. 1st, 1875 of paupers population O I jrti | | In Out I In 0nt, | In Qut PH H H H Lndlow 1S0731 6>>1 125 536 |3 66 -69 2 97; 2S 153 33 Clun 1080ll 4'.0 55 405 |4'26 -51:3*75 24 197 27 Ch. Stretton 6343' 254 58 196 i4" -9l'3-09 -25 109 32 Cieobury 8317 302 65 23713'63 *78 2 85! 27 128 85 Bridgnorth 15448; 437 123 374 ,5*22; -80 2-42! 31 125 41 Shifnal 12787! 423 39 384 ;3'30j -80.3' 30 328 83 Madeley 30364 525 113 412 d'73! 37 l-86i 58 269 74 Atcham 45565' 537 285 302 r29i -62: -66 77 160 151 Oswestry 26848: 661 159 502 246! -591 87 41 169 53 Eilesmere 14JC5 315 S2 253 2 33, -63 175' 42 157 57 Wem 10879 311 66 243 2 86 -61:2-25] 35 164 44 Whitchurch 11424! 448 139 309 3 921"22 2-70 26 82 37 Drayton 14656 253 52 201 L"73 361-37 58 281 73 Wellington 25184 729 135 594 2*88' •53!2'35! S5 186 42 Newport 15844 737 126 611 l4-65l -80138'5 21 126 23 o 0*0 A AjTotal Expenditure to Population, g-g g <u £ ,2 the Po?>r for the year s >» o 2 h ending Lady-day. 45 §" o EH 1831. 1871. 3 ^.2 11838 18481S5S18681874 £ £ £ £ £ Ludlow 17476 18078 6972 5467 6603 6435:7042 6618 Clun •••• 9870 10801] 4155 2924;4657 4565,4648:3737 Ch. Stretton.. 5730 6343! 2296 1648 2429'2406 2457 2296 Cieobury 8703 8817i 2993 2332|2983;332213295'2765 Bridgnorth 14316 15468' 59' '0 3374 4378 4476|5563j5054 Shifnal 10577 12787 4380 3072,3813!6822 5931 3149 Madeley 22164 30364 6852 4662 a048|5747]6539 6019 Atcham 17819 17650 9768 4943;4672'4149;4459 4116f Eilesmere 16254 14405 6559 5312 5233 4250j5030 4546 Warn 11353 10879 4018 3078 3338 3369;3S35 3037 Drayton 13027 146561 5598 3190 2850'25S5j2952|2527 Wellington 17945 25184! 6207 3226 5256 5714 6381:5958 Newport 15841 158441 4932 2884 2940'4280!4773'5589 i For the year 1871. Sir BALDWYN LEIGHTOX, after mentioning that several gentlemen known in connection with poor law administra- tion were present, said he understood there were some gentlemen present still in favour of out-relief He was not going to discuss the relative advantages of the two sys- tems because he believed that the general opinion of all practical men was very much in favour of the stricter sys- tem, though a gentleman, he understood, was present from Bishop's Castle who had come especially to advocate out relief. He thought it was desirable these contrary views should be stated. What he wished to say himself was that all must depend on some one mali, the chairman, probably, in bringing about a better administration of unions. Guardians must put great confidence in their chairman, and of course he carried the Board with him. No doubt in many instances it was desirable to get the Guardians to agree upon some course of action, some principle which would be a guide. He had himself published such a table of precedents in a pamphlet; he did not suggest that they should adopt it but any Board taking this view might take the table as a basis for discussion. He saw the chairmen of the Bridgnorth, Drayton and Wellington Unions present, and ho hoped these gentlemen would give the con- ference the benefit of their experience, would explain how they had made their unions among the best administered in the county. A paper written by his father on the duties of a chairman had just been re-published. His father's impression was that he owed a great deal to the hearty co- operation of the officers of the union. The great results which had been brought about at the Whitechapel Union had been brought about entirely by the very great personal exertions of the chairman heartily assisted by his clerk. The results of their work were well-known he would merely say that the population was 76,000, and that whereas in 1868 the in-door paupers numbered 1,291, and the out- door 2,874 the latter had dwindled down to 192. This was certainly astonishing and people did not believe it for it was virtually abolition of out-door relief. Then, in St. George's in the East almost as much had been done. Out- relief had, in fact, gone on in many unions where private charity ought to have taken its place. What he wanted to call thetr attention to was the fact that the work must be done by individuale-unions must be put into shape almost entirely by individual exertions. Two things must then be remembered—that charity should take the place of out-relief and that they must beware of supplementing wages-and a great deal of out-relief was supplementation of wages—(hear, hear)—which was not only illegal but very demoralizing. It was time farmers, instead of fancying they were doing good, should realize the harm they were doing by supplementing wages, and they would then never do it any more. Another point he would merely mention, as he did not think they should discuss it that day-it was the question of a subvention-because it would distract the attention of the conference from more practical matters, and in the presence of the president of the Local Government Board it would be undesirable and uncourteous to discuss the subject. Mr SCLATEK BOOTH, who was then asked to speak, said— My Lord and Gentlemen, I will not enter into the details of the subjects entered into on Mr Lowndes's paper, but I will take the more general facts for consideration. Before taking this liberty I must mention at the outset that I decided at the instance of my friend, and I believe your friend too, Mr Corbett, to be present at this very important con- ference, an importance which is not to be judged by the num- bers of, but by the quality of, the members of different Boards of Guardians here present. This Union may fairly be called the Palladium of right poor law administration. This is notoriously so it is so reckoned and considered at the head quarters of poor law, and I can assure you we all think it a matter worthy of our personal presence here when we are informed you have collected from every part of your county the chairmen of the Guardians of different unions in order to discuss principles which have here found their most perfect development. I am also very much grati- fied to think that the nobility has connected itself with the meeting in the Lord Lieutenant, who has consented to take the presidency. Now, I may say, speaking generally, and en the part of the whole kingdom, we are at present in a very favourable position as regards discussions on these questions. The out-door relief has been diminishing for some years, at the same time that the expenditure for the relief of the poor has been generally diminishing through- out the country. According to a paper which I laid on the table of the House of Commons not long ago, the number of paupers was less considerably on Lady Day last than it has been on any Lady Day for the past eighteen years. This is for the kingdem gen- erally. The expenditure for the relief of the poor in like manner was less than for six or seven years. The rates for the whole kingdom, taken on the average, may now be put at the figure of la 4d, and in the town of Liver- pool, where I was yesterday, I was informed that at pre- sent a Is rate suffices in that great and wealthy town for the relief of the poor. You may say that this result is brought about by the exceptional excellence of the adminis- tration. Such unions go to make the average more favour- able.than it would be,but I can say in reply to this that every union in the country, and, as you are aware, we reckon by union counties, not parochial unions, shows a diminution of pauperism at the present moment. That one exception is the county of Monmouth, and the very obvious reasons which make it an exception will occur to all. We are, therefore, in a very favourable position for discussing these questions, and persons are apt to say, "Now is the time to strike a blow against the system of out-relief." When they are aked what they desire to be done some will tell you they wish for some legislative action, either by being brought before the House of Commons and being there dis- cussed, or by some statutory provision. During a consider- able part of last session there was a notice on the paper, placed there by a very distinguished political economist, which would have raised a discussion, but from unfortunate circumstances it did not come on. I confess I was relieved to hear Mr Lowndes state his conviction that legis- lation, however desirable it might appear, was not really desirable for the object in view. And Sir Baldwyn Leigh ton, in the pamphlet he has recently done me the favour to send me, states a similar view, for favourable as the time is for enfsreing the workhouse test it would be a great pity if, by any sudden change in the law or any undue assump- tion of authority, we were to prompt the public mind to think we were taking advantage of the present prosperous state of the labour market. At the same time I by no means say that when the happy moment arrives for revising and consolidating the numerous Acts on relief it may not be possible to embody in legislation something in the way of a prohibitory order. It ha3 been remarked that expenditure depends not on any statutory regulation or on the orders of the Poor Law Board though it is said that the orders can be made more stringent, and can be extended to places to which they do not now apply, and more stringent provisions can be inserted- Upon that I will not dwell, further than to say, that this subject is constantly under my anxious at. tention. You are all aware from your familiarity with the mode in which the central government deals with these matters, how much they are averse from using any harsh authority when the same object can be brought about by that local self-government, in the eulogiuna passed on which by the noble president, I entirely concur. The guardians have it in their power to produce particular results in their own locality, and it is by constant attention to the adminis- or out-relief trom week to week, lortnignt to fortnight, that the beet and most certain results can be achieved. There is no dout about that. We may improve our legislation, we may improve our orders from the central government, and the result may be good, or it may be unfortunate, but the result cf more strict and a-mifdstration of out-r?lief in the different unions will conduce undouhtedly to a favourable and satisfactory amormt nf i forSotton that there is a vast M ?f an P ^ee>lnS. which would be enlisted against taken ™ I^T a4.ssumPtluonrof authority were suddenly n6Vfer bG that in many parts 1 hI 'nn *rmlicit' a?c?mnao^a,"ion is very insufficient for the uUc application of the worknouse test, and cn behalf of the department I aommister, I must say they have found rot only in the rural but in the manufacturing distiicts still more, that when endeavours have been made to improve it the greatest possible objection is shown to the erection of workhouses which would be adequate to the application of the workhouse test. Whether the amount of workhouse accomodation which is available in some country districts as compared with manufacturing distiicts, may account for the fact. I do not know, but during the recent strike of agriclllturallabourers no perceptible effect was te be observed in the burdens on the poor rate, whereas in the case of the South Wales strike there was a very heavy charge, the fact being that in such a populous district as South Wales the workhouse accommo- dation was entirely insufficient. But even assuming it was advisable to construct workhouses adequato for such popu- lations as that, we cannot for a moment suppose it would be practicable or advisable to provide such an amount as would enable the Guardians to be perfectly independent in the event of such a calamity as the cotton famine, or the strike and lock-out in South Wales the other day. I must express n;y entire concurrence with the suggestion made by Mr Lowndes that the business of such a conference as this is not to distract their minds by asking aid from the Govern- ment, or from Parliament, but to do their duty in their own particular unions, and they would then find that Boards of Guardians have the remedy in their own hands, and can set an example which can be followed by neighbours who have not the energy to set to work themselves. There was placed in my hands when I was in town, the day before yesterday, a remarkable statement showing that in the Clevedon Union a very large sum of money had been collected in aid of the rates by application to the relatives and friends of persons in receipt of relief. It may be said that the fact that such a sum was collected showed some laxity in the administra- tion of relief by the Guardians, but at all events they have had in that union the courage to exact from rela- tions, and children, and parents, some contribution in aid of the burdens to which the ratepayers have been exposed. Therefore, what I have stated is a measure for imitation in every union in the kingdom. This margin of economy may be effected by the Guardians, however, either by ap- plication of the workhouse test, which might prevent the admission of persons such as I have alluded to, or by making the relatives and children of paupers contribute to iheir relief. Sir Baldwyn very properly suggested the im- propriety of paying money out of the rates in aid of wages. I am sorry to say that in the county to which I belong,when they published their accounts on a recent occasion, I paw many amount-; of money paid to out-door paupers on ac- count of insufficient wages. These are cases which should not occur-there is no excuse for them at the present time— and I hope we shall soon make an end of the.n. The time no doubt is approaching when a great and extended interest will be taken in the question of relief. It is perfectly true that during the present season the improvement of the ad- ministration may be most advantageously carried out. It is true that this is the time beyond auy that has occurred in our memory when information with respect to the means which are at every working man's disposal for putting by some portion of his earnings should be disseminated as widely as possible. This has been under my consideration for some time, and I hope we shall be able to communicate to labourers in some easy and simple form a knowledge of what is practicable in this way whe- ther by contributing to Savings Banks or the purchase of deferred annuities, or by investing in friendly or other societies. I think the want of information often regulates their expenditure of their weekly earnings, and if by any means we could convey to workmen hew easy it is to save, the present is the time for doing it. This may be done by every employer, within the circle of his own experience, but still some general statement is required. I will only say in conclusion that if it had been a much longer journey than I have undertaken, I would have readily undertaken itjto show my respect for the excellent example set in this neigh- bourhood by several Boards of Guardians, and to indicate my hope and expectation that that example will be followed in all parts of the country. Mr S. MINOR, Chairman of the Wellingten Union, then read a paper in which he declared he had always opposed out-relief, as he believed each case was a blow given to the independence of the provident labourer. He complained of the Local Government Board fixing the quantity of stone to be broken by vagrants at three cwt., which bad led to a gradual increase in the numbers of vagrants in the Welling- ton Union where the quantity before was six cwt. The Rev. Mr WARREN, secretary of the Shrewsbury Charity Organization Society, said that since the applica- tion of the strict system in Shrewsbury, those who had for- merlybeen beggars,now no longer begged but found work, and had become much more civil, clean, and independent. In- stead of giving medical relief a dispensary had been started, the subscription a penny a week, and notwithstanding that it was said the Foresters had not succeeded, and at Nor- thampton where such a society had best got n, it only got 1000 members, and took X25 the first year, that started at Shrewsbury enrolled 1400 members, and took JE75 its first year. Mr HIBBERT said that a short time ago he had had the pleasure of presiding at a similar conference in Mr Cane's district, comprising Lancashire, and 'portions of Cheshire and Derbyshire, where above 100 representatives of various Boards of Guardians were present, and after a discussion of two days, came to a unanimous resolution in favour of a great restriction of out-relief, leaving to each Board to carry it out in the best way they could. An improved system of poor law administration was much wanted, and this con- ference could do nothing better to promote such an im- provement than, when the conference ended, to send forth far and wide Mr Lowndes' paper, and the various speeches made, and which would be made, on the subject. Where there was so much information to be given, be did trust it would not be confined to the county of Salop. Then he would mention one question which had not been alluded to. It had been said by all the speakers up to himself that there was no necessity for legislation on the question. Well, he did net think there was any general necessity, but there was a necessity on one small matter, and he had no doubt his right hon. friend would agree with him-it was the question of giving medical relief on loan. (Hear, hear). Now, medical relief he looked upon as a very dangerous kind of relief it was the first step very often to- wards producing a pauper, and yet he was sorry most relieving officers acted far too loosely in the way of medical relief. He knew at his own Board how very much more freely medical relief was given than any other. He should like medical relief to be given on loan, but unfortun- ately guardians were not able to do this at present. The medical officer was paid by salary, and it was of course im- possible to say how much per case should be charged for any particular person, but in the case of persons who had been receiving good wages, applying for-relief, he thought it would be a good way of meeting the application, and when any future Bill was brought into the House he hoped this would be dealt with. With respect to the question named by Mr Minor about vagrants he regretted to say he had himself had some hand in the preparation of the order re- gardiog vagrant?, and he was sorry the amount of work required from them was not sufficiently large. He quite agreed that a hard and fast line should not be laid down, but it was done rather to compel the various Boards to find work which previously to the order, had never found any work at all. He did not think it was intended so much to interfere with Boards exacting good amounts of task work. It would probably meet Mr Minor's views if a minimum of work was laid down leaving it to the various Boards of Guardians to increase the amount. (Hear, hear.) Mr W. MINOR said the had always been a great oppon- ent of out-relief, but the Chairman knew the tlifficlilties he had had to contend with through the obstinancy of the old Guardians. He had had an uphill fight, but had been much supported by several ex-officio Guardians, which was one reason, perhaps, why his union now stood as well as most. He had always been a most stringent opponent of medical relief, considering it pauperized quite as much as any othtr kind of relief. When the late Sir Baldwyn Leighton was living they nsed to exchange notes, and it was always a pleasure to the speaker to find the pocr-rates in his union only a halfpenny or three farthings in the £ more than in Atcham. Mr PELL, M.P., said it had been his fortune to reside for many years in a union which had become at last typical for its bad management and entire departure from those correct principles which had been expounded that day. If his union was not quite the worst union in England, it was the worst union in the worst county. After considerable labour he had very much altered the number of recipients of relief, but he had not persuaded the larger portion of the Board to act on rule and principle, and he had striking examples of gentlemen coming to the Board impelled by charitable feel- ings which, in some remarkable way, kept them generally absent, but brought them there on special occasions. Nothing could be more distressing to those who devoted a considerable portion of their time to the amelioration of the position of society around. When he began three years ago every twelfth person out of 13,000 received relief, and this in one of the richest counties in England, with varied industry, ironstone just developed, a trade in shoes, and a large amount of first-rate grass land and several very large estates in the centre and to be a pauper was not viewed as anything discreditable or disgraceful. An attempt was made at reform; the re- formers read everything they could get about Atcham- they were very much indebted to the example set them by Ateliam-,ir,(i succeeded in reducing the number of paupers one"half. The pecuniary consideration 8 *1,1 .„.weveri never enter into their deliberations—he would willingly contribute more than he was doing if he could thus reduce pauperism. Mr Pell then referred to what Mr Warren had said of the Charity Organization Society, re- marking that through its instrumentality those who had been consumers only had now become producers. He had seen some wonderful cures in this way himself, he had seen paupers who had been bent double receiving 2s 6d a day in the stons quarries, another who was as blind as Mr Lowe, —(laughter)—he did not mean politically—driving a donkey and cart, and another who was soon able to purchase a horse. And people had come to his door with tears in their eyes to thank him for striking them off the relief list. The business of his Board had now, however, come to about a dead lock, for first principles not being accepted there was a terrible battle over each C'Be, and whether any I 5, wa8 Biven to a person or not depended very much on whether the speaker was in London or at borne and whether a certain clergyman or guardian was there to advocate t1:t! claims of the applicant. It was just the chance of a fine day or a few loads of hay being out which g.ve the person relief or refused it-a state of things which was most un- satisfactory. The rule was this. A person applied for relief but being able-bodied was told he could not have it. In a little time came a medical report that James Jones had dyspepsia or rheumatism or something thi< was accepted and then, as a rule, the opponents of out-relief were defeated. To this conduct of medical officers and guardians let, the iarge amount of stimulants ordered by them be added. Those who objected to all this were placed in a very in- vidious position, were called relentless, unfeeling, and un- christian—and certainly there were some staggering texts in the Scriptures like "Sell all thou hast and give to the poor," but those who quoted these texts seemed to for- get that there were higher lessons given, al that it was a very questionable way of following this advice to take the money from the poor, and so g,P¡'¡y it that it became the origin and not the cure of the bane. Mr Pell then went on to point out that although there had in some districts been a diminution of paupers and a elimination in the sort of maintenance, most people forgot tLat these numbers and figures were relative. He would ask them if, in face of the enormous increase of wealth, they would be satisfied with the present reduction in pauperism, or, indeed, any- thinor short of its total disappearance, as far as nature would permit it-if so, they would leave that room with a very imperfect conception of the evils of pauperism. Something like a million a day was being added to the capital of the country, and they all knew how large a por- tion ei this increase went into the pockets of the working people. He was glad this was said, but he should like to see evidence and a corresponding disposition among them to shake off dependence on enforced charity in the form of poor rates. As it was, the agricultural labourer, poorly as he had been paid up to within the last year or two, was the most saving portion of the labouring population, and it was the duty of Guardians, as employers and as neighbours, to put before this population that they must not look to the rates any more as a means of relief from misfortune. (Hear hear.) Mr RATHBoNig, M.P., did not think that everything depended on the chairman, as in many unions there was no one in- dividual who could do more than assist in the vast labour. This was the first time that great meetings for the reform of poor law administration had taken place at a period of very great prosperity, and he quite agreed with the presi- dent of the Local Government Board that it was only in times of great prosperity any great reform could be carried out, because it was only then that the wave of pauperism could be thrown back, and people, thrown off the relief list, could easily find work. He remarked that the increase of pauperism had been staid in London, and the account of this showed that it was not merely extra prosperity, but good management, which had proved effective. But the present system of the country could not bereversed suddenly, because the paupers Boards of Guatdians had made, were too far gone; hail, if he might use the word, a vested mterest in pauperism and it would take many years before that class of the community could be entirely got rid of. they might not be altogether immoral, but people who by their own carelessness and mismanagement had fallen into dependence. Women with large families were the only able- bodied paupers Liverpool had in ordinary times, but the remedy was close at hand. The manufacturing districts wanted woman, and so a charity organization society was formed, which sent 1,000 persons thither in three years, leaving those behind the prospect of better wage3, instead cf wages which reduced the recipients to the verge of pauper- ism. One family which was gradually pinking into prosti- tution was now in the manufacturing districts earning £ 2 18a a week. He believed, with Mr Hibbert, that there should be legislation, and thought the President of the Local Government Board might give great assistance both in that and by making some change in his dealing with the local authorities, which would give them increased dignity and influence, instead of as had been done for years, weaken- ing their influence. The Local Government Board kept up all the old formalities and interference which were once necessary, which caused things to have to be sent up to London, kept there a month or two, and then sent back, (laughter,) whereas, if all this was given up, the Board being no longer engaged with details, would have much more time to consider principles than it now had. After suggesting the appointment of Mr Corbett as a Port of prime minister for his district, Mr Rathbone concluded by observing that the present head of the Local Government Board had a great chanca before him, as the present Ministry were not likely to be disturbed for some consider- able time, and he hoped he would carry those reforms, and thus deserve well of his country. Captain SEVKRNE remarked that the last speaker had said it was difficult to apply stringent rules and work in an entirely new way in the relief of the poor. At the death of the late chairman of the Atcham Union he came into office as its Chairman. It consisted of something more than-19,000 population, and the question of annexation was then pend- ing, aud within six months Shrewsbury, with a population of 25,000 inhabitants was added. During the last half-year of the old Atcham Union the number of out-door paupers was 321, and the number of in-door 195. In the next half- year, Shrewsbury having come in, the numbers increased to 418 in-door and 1,132 out-door. Whether the old Shrews- bury rules should be continued, or the stern rules of Atcham be adopted, was the question. The latter was decided on, and in March last there were 530 out-door and 139 in-door, so wonderfully had they decreased. On the Monday pre- viously to the day on which he was speaking the numbers were in-door 221, and out-door 153. Nothing farther was waited to show the value of the present system, and he was glad to hear testimony to its effect on the town of Shrewsbury. The great thing was to encourage thrift in every way, for perhaps that was the one quality most want- ing in the class from which paupers mostly came. Whether the increase of education would have some effect in enabling peeple to look forward to and provide for the future he did not know, but he was sure he hoped it would. He wished there was a post-office savings bank in every village to en- courage providence. As to clubs, what was more common in examining applications than to hear it said, Oh, he belonged to a club, but it broke?" What could be a worse example for the sons of a man than to know that their father had suffered in this way? He wished some system could be found of friendly societies which could be managed in a certain way by the Guardians and recognized by the Government. Some such thing was possible, and he was quite sure that if in any way societies could be made more stable more people would belong to them. Mr R. JASPER MORE said that he lived in a part of that county adjoining the property of a non-resident proprietor. He had no objection to non-resident proprietors, for they were generally men of large fortune, who could afford to spend more than men who lived on their own estates. However-Mr More went on to say—he was visited daily, or at all events weekly, by large numbers of people, firstly those rejected by the Atcham Union, secondly, those rejected by the Forden Union, and thirdly those rejected by the Charity Organiza- tion Society, and he should have liked to have had a word of advice from Mr Lowndel3 as to what he should do. (Laughter.) He thought it only fair that every union should bear its own burden. Mr UVEDALE CORBETT related the beneficial effects which had followed his efforts to classify the London workhouses into sick, infirm, able bodied, houses. At that time, Feb- ruary, 1868, the pauperism of London had about culmin- ated, and the issue of a prohibitory order was mooted. He ventured to advise that this should not be done,but that the Local Government Board should try to stimulate Boards of Guardians to show a good example in the administration of the poor law,and help them gradually to adopt practically the prohibitory order, when the time would be ripe for issuing such an'order with the unanimous consent of everybody. He cited figures to show the marvellous results which had fol- lowed, and stated that in five Shropshire unions, Atcham Drayton, Ellesmere, Madeley, and Oswestry, with a popu- lation of 132,000 the per centage of paupers was in 1872 2-2, in 1873, 2, and 1874, T7, Atcham having but 10, and Madeley but 1'3. The other tenjuoions in the county ex- actly doubled this per centage though among them there had been a progressive diminution at the same rate as in the other case. In 1872 their percentage was 4.4 and in 1874 3"5. He said he was glad that the diminution in Shrews- bury which was by two thirds after the new rules came into force, had not been accompanied by any hardship, notwith- standing the few that had gone to his friend s union at Mr TURNER defended the two great friendly societies, than which, he said, nothing had done more to stem the tide of pauperism. After lunch Mr T. B. BAKEB made some remarks on the value of conferences, and then Captain Severne explaine 1 that he had not referred in what he had said to the Forest. ers, Freemasons, or societies of that kind, but to those which were not on a sound basis, and which he hoped mi-ht at m»t W 8 t0°'"her' P°' NON-RESIDENT RELIEF. This was the next point to be considered, and without a Xi"S"S 7" ■"V'1 "< br wno remarKea that it was now almost exploded In 1837 Sn miZ. LfATh8' 1' r1" Mt >«» ttaaSiSI ent, but Atcham had now no non-resident paupers. rrx, V> "FTIEF„TO WIVES AND FAMILIES. said thatV»t who introduced this subject, habit of pvprp;a; an<?, ^rother guardians were in tho hut thpv ha^ t a,Poocl °f Pity on the poor wretches, I y keen the victims of so many collusions and iinpostures that all applications were now met by the work- f lest- lhis was the case with wives and tamuies deserted by the husband, although it seemed nara to break up their homes the wives of soldiers, if married with leave, had a certain portion of pay ?'l°tted to them when their husbands were on service, but if the marriage had taken place without leave, were offered the house only, which course was also adopted in the case of the wives of militia men, and of men in gaol. The PRESIDENT said he supposed this met with unani- mous approval. RELIEF TO ABLE-BODIED WIDOWS WITH FAMILIES. Mr STANLEY LEIGHTON, who introduced this subject. said that the difficulty he should havo in discussing this head was lessened by the assun ption of general principles which he had heard that morning. The importance of the sub- ject would appear from the fact that in some unions it was reported that as many as one third of the paupers came under the denomination of widows with children. The very pitiful condition of these induced Guardians to forsake first principles. Widowhood was a time of peculiar trouble. With no provision made it was impossible that, at the pre- sent rate of remuneration, a woman should support two or three children out of her earnings, and it was cruel to either partially or wholly break up her home. Should, therefore, the Guardians let her have relief in the form most agreeable to herself, let her have 2 or 3 a week for each child beyond the first or second ? And should this continue until she was able to support them ? He should consider how far the present system of administration was calculated to aggra- vate the evil, how far it might be relieved, and he shonld draw his arguments from those that affected the welfare of the poor, putting on one side the saving of the rates. It was in the knowledge of everyone who heard him that so universal had become the practice of Boards of Guardians of giving one or two shillings a week, or more, according to the number of children, that it had become a universal be- lief among the whole body of the working classes that widows in suck cases had a legal right to out-door relief find the result which had followed was this. Direct encourage- ment had been given to married men and women not to prepare on- account of such a contingency, and secondly a direct inducement had been held out to wdows not to take employment which might lessen. their clami on the parish. They saw examples of this in -eyery union, doing harm to the whole body of "L_1' n.1 .rl,J,J .wu^iu.auu u'Ut:fJ"lIiII'ù Poor, but doiag unfortunately gre'iter .jnrm to those who were widows by preventing a provision oeing made for them when there was an oppor- tunity. Widowhood was not an exceptional state in the I chance, of life and if the guardians were Mire to provide what the husband ought to have provided harm was done to the widows themselves. The second objection was drawn from a different class of conditions. The able-bodied widow was earning wages, Her wages were insufficient to support her ■ and her family, and therefore the rates made up tns deficiency. Let them observe how insidiously that old, bau yru-ciple of supplementing wages out of the rates came in, and its pernicious effect on the wages of female labour Ihe wagt s of the whole bxly of working women were c-ssenea. Ims was what would have been expected were c-ssenea. This was what would have been expected theoretically to happen but hia hearers need not go to theory. Mr liathbone had shown them that day that out- relief pay depressed the wages of women in Lancashire it waa the same in London and the poor-law reports would show the results of experience in this matter. He allowed that in c .unties spread over a large arealit was not so patent but he thought it was the same. The third objection arose' from the effect this system had on the bringing up of chil. dren. Through the operation of the law children were brought up under unwholesome conditions. If anyone dis- puted his arguments he would ask him to go and examine particular cases at home, particularly cases of a widow an out pauper, with dependent children, He would ask him to calculate how much her income was, how much remained for food, lodging and clothing, after paying the rent. He would ask him to think how much motherly care a woman working out all day could bestow on her children. He would ask him if the accommodation was good for the young in life, and then if he would perpetuate a system which kept up the injurious surroundings of pauperism round the child, in the misery, hardship, and narrow circumstances of a pauper home. He supposed there was nothing so brutalising as the effect of the contemplation of misery such as that started and sanctioned by the administration of the law. There were three points to be looked at: first, that the relief must be adequate, second, that it must be a case of destitution, third, that children should be prevented from being brought up under unwholesome influences. The proposal he made was that relief should be offered to the widow by taking some or all of her children into the work- house. He was almost ashamed he had been so long in coming to so simple a proposal; but that plan had been tried and found successful in some unions. The adequacy of the "lie/ could only be tested in the workhouse where the children were properly fed, lodged, clothed, and schooled. No mother unless destitute would part with her children, and the advantage to the children was in taking them from the unwholesurae influences and poor accommodation of her own house. The Inspectors were those who knew most of the subject, however, and they had over and over again stated that it was most injurious to the children to be brought up in the way many receiving out-door relief were brought up, and the only way was to separate them entirely from home associations, to give them a chance in after life. Prior to doing this there must be a good workhouse or dis- trict school where children might be separated from the older inmates, and these schools had increased wonderfully in the last fifteen years. That workhouse children turned out badly, statistics disproved,statistics proved they did not return to the House in old age. The absence of workhouse children from the list of criminals bore general testimony to the goodness of workhouse schools. Just one word about the argument against breaking up the home. Let them be reassured. Very few homes would he broken up. The widows would find friends, or they would find work, and would bring up"thcir children free from the stigma of pauper- ism, with some sense of self respect, and not as paupers sup- ported by the state. (Hear, hear.) Mr HASSALL, vice-chairman of the Whitchurch Local Board, fully endorsed all that had fallen from Mr Leighton. He said that some time ago they experienced great diffi- culty at \v aUchurch, in keeping up a proper school so as to get a government grant. Sending them to the national school did not succeed, and the Board then fell back;on the system ofitaking a portion ofithe children into the House. Of course it was considered a great hardship to take the chil- dren from the mother, but he could not see it, so much were the children improved spiritually and temporarily in so short a time. They had now a good school, and had ob- tained a government grant, and the children were the admiration of the people, and a system had been introduced Mr LAWRENCE, Wellington, believed that cases of relief should be judged eacn on its own individual merits and that guardians who lived on the spot and knew the people could better judge of their necessities than people who lived in far countries. (Hear, hear.) Any foreigner taking up a newspaper report of that conference would imagine that persons who unfortunately came upon the rates were the greatest scamps in Christendom, and some people thought that applicants for relief had lost all sense of right and wrong. (Hear, hear.) Mr Lawrence, however, failed to see why paupers should be punished by having their homes broken up, and remarked that it was a perfect mar- vel how the poorer classes lived, much less saved money. Mr WALKER, Newport, and Mr PELL, M. P., (who pointed out that the children of the npper classes were sent from home to school at an early age), spoke generally in support of Mr Leighton's views, and Mr POOLE. Clun, asked what course guardians should adopt, where persons n a state of destitution refused to go into the House. The REV. W. M. ROWLANDS, Clun, said he knew he was in an assembly that was packed for the purpose (no nn\ but he was a clergyman, and would plead for the widw and fatherless. He reminded the conference that we Wre told that the poor would never cease out of the rnarked that though that meeting was full of phil0S0phers doctrinaires the vis inertia was a big force, and they have to live a long time before they got the country Boards of Guardians to do what had been preached that day. Mr PELL, M.P., at once jumped up to reply to the rev. gentleman, and very ably pointed out how inadequate the amount children on out-relief got was to maintain them, and vividly illustrated the mischievous effects of subsidizing women who opened little shops and beat out unassisted traders. He showed, too. how much better off the children were in the house than with their mother. Mr W. MINOR spoke in support of Mr Leighton's views. RELIEF ON ACCOUNT OF SICKNESS. Mr EVAN DAVIES brought forward the cases of single men temporarily disabled, and single women with or with- out children. He contended that wages being now double what they were when he was young, and several of his old servants having saved enough to become very large ratepayers, men ought now to provide for their being temporarily dis- abled. Referring to the cases of young women who had loved "net wisely, but too well," he said that these cases, which had been very much increased of late years, should always be relieved iu the house or not at all. Mr LAWRENCE thought Guardians ought to be parties' larly careful how they treated people under difficulties- h Mi W. MINOR introduced the subject of relief, To the Head of the Family," and warned the Guardians agaii»t granting relief the moment a man became unwell, but he did not approve of breaking up a man s home by offering him the house. Mr EVAN DAVIES said that the man's friends would take care he did not suffer. "Relief on account of the sickness of the wife or children of able-bodied men was introduced by the Rev E. G He said that an abie-bodied man who married nja8t undertake the obligations of that marriage, When it wo'ufd iJr-W ""J 12s » would answe-by prudence before marriage, and he could was treasure t wages men could and did save, as he was treasurer of a savings bank. Ir TURNER said that too many married before the age of discretion. MISCELLANEOUS. lhe Rev T. L. GLEADOWE, vice-chairman of Atcham Union, spoke on medical attendance, which, he said, was the Commencement of pauperism,and only when all other means of obtaining it had failed, should they grant it. It was a question whether a mid-wifery order should be given at all, unless the head of the family was in receipt of out-relief. The Rev E. CORSER brought forward the question of re- lief to old, infirm, or permanently disabled single men or women," and to aged infirm married couples." He re- marked that stress was laid on the breaking up of the home of a solitary, infirm old man or woman, but what sort of a home could they have to enjoy. The Rev J. BROOK, Shifnal, ani Mr M. SOUTHWELL Bridgenorth, spoke also, which ended the discussion. On the motion of Mr J. R. KENYON, Q.C., seconded by Sir BALDWYN LEIGHTON, votes of thanks were given to the President, and similar compliments were paid to the Atcham Board of Guardians and the gentlemen who had attended from a distance to speak.
---------------AN ELOQUENT…
AN ELOQUENT DEFENDER AND HIS REWARD. Miss Anna Connett, a pretty girl of 14 years, was tried, the other day, for burglary, in the Court of Special Sessions at Elizabeth, United States.. It was alleged that the prife oner had broken into a house in the night time to steal some money. The coiirt-roona was packed. The youth and beauty of the defendant, the gravity of the alleged offence, and the novelty of the case, combined to produce a powerful impression upon the spectators. Mr W. B. Mrvxson, an old Californian lawyer, defended the prisoner. He spoke of the promising life of his client in the past, her spotless reputation, her position, her assccia- tious, and of the impossibility of so sudden a descent through all the gradations of crime to the level of the midnight burglar and robber. Jurymen," said he, yon have arraigned before you a child just bursting from the f fl0f infanc.V £ nd opening into the blossom of youth, who for five years has been a constant attendant at church and Sunday school, and a follower of Him who has said, buffer little children to come unto me, for of snch is the kingdom of heaven.' Gentlemen of the jury, I leave the the child in your hands; it is for you to say whether her presence shall again gladden the hearts of her father and mother, the music of her voice be again heard in the song of the Sabbath schaol, her joyous laugh again be blended with that of her ansociates and companions, or whether all the bright possibilities of her young life shall be blasted in a moment by a verdict that shall consign her to a felon's doom." As the lawyer concluded, with bowed head and in earnest tones, the effect was electrical. Half the jurymen were in tears. The jury retired, but almost instantly returned. Not guilty," exclaimed tlw foreman in a loud voice, and the spectators burst into a tumultuous applause. A thron.g, I including attorneys and the clerk, gathered around the girl with congratulations. Among them was Mr Maxson; and as the child was holding the hand of her defender, the mother said Why don't you kiss him, Anna, he's done so well for you." The ehild looked around at the audience, and, though half abashed by the multitude of faces, sud- denly turned and exciaimed, I don't care, I will;" an" she threw her arms about the lawyer's neck and kissed hila again and again.
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