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FLINTSHIRE1 POLICE COMMITTEE.I

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FLINTSHIRE 1 POLICE COMMITTEE. I POLICE & GAME PRESERVING. I The ordinary meeting of the Standing Joint or Police Comiaittee took place at the County Hall Mold, on Thursday, when there were present—Mr J. Scott Bankes, chairman Mr J. Herbert Lewi-, Chairman of the Countv Council Sir W a Wit. liams, Bart., Messrs Wm. Wynne, Rhyl W. Williams. Rhyl A. Mesham, Pontruffydd; T. Batt-, KeLfcarton j LI. J. Henry and P. Jones, Halkyn Dr. Edward; Messrs E. Wheldon, E. Thompson, andC. P. Morgan, Mold; R. J. Jones, Bagilit P. B. D. C-Joke. Gwysaney P. P. Pennant, Nantlya James Evans. Gwernaiffeld F. S. Hore, t. Arbaph T. T. Kelly, Clark of the Peace; Mijor Webber, Chief Constable and D. Williams, County Surveyor. THE CHIEF CONSTABLE'S REPORT. JVlajor Webber read the following report :— Indictable Offences.—I beg to inform you that by the crime return fur the quarter ending 29:h December, 1S90. whicb was furniished for the last Q arter Seisions, there were 7 indictable otfences reported, and 5 persons appre- hended. Of these 1 was committed for trial, I bai'ed for tria). 2 bailed for further examination, and one dis- charged, as against 15 offences, 10 persons apprehended, and committed for trial, for the corresponding period of the previous year. Summciiily Proceeded Against. -There were 301 persons summar'ly proceeded against, of whom 265 were. convicted, agiinst279 with 216 convictions during a similar period in 1813.). Uf the ;i'H persons summarily proceeded against, 56 were for agganiti or breaches of the peace, Gi under the Klementiry Educttion Acts, 57 for drunkenness, 21 larceni'H, and S under the Vagrancy Acts Drunkenness.—Drunkenness has decreased considerably since the lass qttarer. Contagious Disease* (Animal-) Acts.-There were 22 cases of swine fever during the quarter, but I am happy to say thai the county is now free from that complaint. There is; however, a good deal of sheep scab. Resignation atid.Appointmeiit. -P.C. No. 8, John Arthur Jones, after giving the regulated notice, resign ell on the :n"t Octi'be-, b91, and to supply tha vacancy thus caused, P.C. 8, Wiliiaiu Gabriel, has been appointed. Accounts. —My accounts for the quarter ending 31,t Decembr r, IS¡;U, have been examined by Nlr J. E. Edwards and found-correct. They have also bean inspected by your hub committee, and are now laid before you. Return Shotting Area, Population, Jcc., of Polici Beats. —I place before you a return showing the approximate a-ea and popula ion. also the number of public-bouses and beer-hjustjs in the various constabulary beats into which the county is divided, as well as the number of constables to eatb. Qualifications for and Conditions of Service.-Police Candidates.—At your request I have prepared certain qualifications for candidates," as well as conditions of service." which I consiJer it necessary that a person should assent to, before being admitted into the Flintshire Con- stabulary. These I hope will meet with your approbation and sanction. Increased Pay to Sergeants.-I also place before you a scale of pay showing to what extent I would propose that the Sergeants' pay should be improved in order that a man's position should be bettered at once when considered worthv uf promotion. POLICE QUESTIONS. A telegram was read from Mr A. Lloyd, apologis- ing for his absence, seeing he was obliged to be in London and suggesting that one of the conditions on which new men should be admitted into the police force would be a knowledge of Welsh. The condi- tions suggested were that the men should be under thirty years of age, five feet eight without their shoes io height, well able to read and write, generally in- telligent, free from bodily complaint, of a strong con- stitution, medically inspected, and of unexceptionable character. Mr Herbert Lewis said he was of the same opinion with Mr Lloyd. It was practically impossible to get the information required unless the officer under- stood Welsh, and this was especially the case in Welsh districts. In English distsicts the Welsh qua- lification would not apply. Col. Mesham quit3 agreed with the view expressed by Mr Lewis, but suggested that it should be an instruction to the Chief Constable, rather than a stated qualification. Mr Davies Cooke said it would make it awkward in case of promotion to adopt such an instruction. Mr Wynne said in the town of Rhyl, which he regarded as in a Welsh district, there were two officers who had no knowledge of Wels':>, but at the Dams time were thoroughly efficient. Mr Hf-ibsrt Lewis said the case of Rhyl was cer- tainly exceptional. What was intended was that all new men who were stationed in Welsh speaking districts should have a knowledge of Welsh. He was quite willing to accept the suggestion of Colonel Mesham, and have the resolution as an instruction to the Chief Constable. This was supported by Mr Pennant, and the Chief Constable said that hitherto he had made a knowledge of Welsh indispensable in those who had been ad- mitted. Mr Williams, Rhyl, said he had been a witness to the greater influence possessed by a Welsh speaking constable in dispersing a crowd, and he thought it very necessary. The suggestion was then unanimously adopted as an instruction to the Chief Constable. _u rOLICE STATIONS RETURNS. lheChiet Constable presented a return showing the stations or beats of every constable in the county, with the number of public houses—full-licensed and beer—and the number of population, together with the area in square miles of each beat. Mr Wheldon moved that the consideration of it be adjourned until their next meeting, seeing they could not possibly master the document in a few minutes. This was seconded by Mr Herbert Lewis. The conditions under which every policeman accepts service in the force were agreed to without note or comment. THE ACCOUNTS. The Chairman said the sub-committee had met that morning, and the Chief Constable produced the certificate of the auditor, Mr J. Edwards, to the effect that.they were correct. The committee had also inquired into and pas..ed the current accounts. The police bill for the last three months ainountad to £ 1,526 103 Id, and the Chief Constable estimated he would require 21,600 for the next quarter. This was granted. REVISED PAY. I The Chief Constable submitted a scheme of revised pay for the officers; the only alteration from the existing one being the suggestion to add twopence a day to the sergeants, by which a sergeant would get an additional twopence per day from his appoint- ment. instead of having ts wait two years for the advance, as at present. On the new scale a sargeant having eight years' service would get on appointment 21 9s 2d a week, instead of 1:183 03, as at present. In two years is would ba advanced to P.1 10s 43, in another three to 21 118 6J, and in three more to £ 1 .1211 Bi. which was the maximum sum. The increasa would involve an additional expenditure of 1:18 5s a-year.—On the motion of Col. Mesham. seconded by Mr R. J. Jones, the alteration was agreed to. aEDDCTIOV AND STOPPAGES OF PAT. The Chairman said at the last committee it was re- solved that if a constable is ill, his illness not being caused by his own indiscretion or misconduct, one- third of his pay shall be deducted. This included the injuries or illness incurred in tha discbarge of his duties, which nobody ever intended. The constables had also signed a petition showing that the proposed reduction of one-third the rate of pay was greater than proposed in any other force in the kingdom, the largest reduction anywhere being one shiling a day. He suggested -that the rule should be so altered as to entitle the officers to their full pay when the illness or injury had been contracted when in the discharge of duty. There was also a letter from Col. Cobbe, inspector of polioe, to the effect that in most counties the stoppage of a day in the case of illness was at the discretion of the chief constable. Mr Herbert Lewis said it was certainly an over- night to deduct the one-third when the illness was contracted while in the discharge of duty, and there would be no difference of cpinion as to rectifying it. As to the deduction of Is a day he thought that acarcelyofair, as the lower ranks would be deducted in a greater ratio than the higher ones, whereas they should be in something like the same ratio. (Hear, hear.) Any deductions they might decide upon should be on a common pri-nciple, to be in the same ratio all round. A good deal of-conversation ensued as to what was ■nant by illness contracted while in the discharge of duty, and whether it would include the breaking out of hereditary ailments, sacb as consumption, &c. At last it was agreed that there should be no deduction on account of injuries and illnesses contracted in the execution of duty, and that in cases of ordinary ill- ness there would be a deduction of 18 a day for con. stables and sergeants), Is 6d in the case of inspectors, and 23 in that of superintendents. POLICEMEN AS BEATERS. Pursuant to notice, Mr James Evans rose to propose That no police constables of the county of Flint shall be engaged as beaters to the gentry on shooting days in their districts." He said, in proposing the resolution, he was not;actuated by any enmity against the police, far trom it, for there was- álO one who appreciated their services more than he did, nor who sympathised with their difficulties. He did it rather in a spirit of f r-lendliness to the police, for the custom of which he complained was one which was condemned by public opinion, and only tended to bring the police into disrepute with the people. It was a general custom at these shooting parties to have a policeman as one of the beater, and the custom was one which gave rise to a great deal of ill feeling, for it caused too many people to imagine that the police identified themselves with the gentry and the gamekeepers as against the public, whereas the cost of their maintenance -fell on all alike. Therefore, seeing they were the servants of all, they should not be specially employed by a few. and for well-known purposes. At the same time he did not think they were the most physically well-fitted for the work, for as one of them said of him that he was too thin to be an alderman, he might say of them that they were too fat to be beaters. Besides, how could they act as beaters if they did their duty to the public, for some of them had long and wide beats, nearly 100 miles in length. How could a man do his duty on such a beat, and then go to act as a beater ? If he did the one, he must neglect the other. Again, supposing that while he was acting as beater, he met with an accident, would it be then said it was contracted when in the execution of his duty ? Was it not better that they should avoid all appeaiance of offending the public, and when the shooting parties were going on to keep at a good distance from the scene. Mr E. Wheldon seconded the resolution, and sug- gested that the words to the gentry" be omitted. He thought it was a most unfair thing to ask a police- man to do anything of the kind, for there was nothing which so excited the prejudices of the public against him. He hoped the magistrates at any rate would discourage tqe practice, and that the debate should be carried on with an absence of anything like personalties. Sir W. G. Williams said he had been at a good many shooting parties, but he had never seen a police- man acting as a beater, except on an occasion when they were having their luncheon, and a policeman might bappen to turn up. (Laughter). Mr P. P. Pennant said his experience had been exactly similar. He bad never seen a policeman acting as beater. Air Jamaea Evans was surprised at what was said, I for in all the shooting parties in his district the policeman w&a about the most conspicuous person I Among the t«»ters, aJld apparently for the purpose of 1 Æ" showing that he and the keeper were on good terms I and worked together. The Chairman said be had never seen a policeman acting as a beater when his uniform. He had seen a policeman when off duty acting as such, but not for pay, and as a sort of diversion or recreation. The officer had sent to ask whether he should so act, but he had never received any pay beyond a pheasant or a couple of rabbits. He had at all times discoun- tenanced policemen acting a watchers, holding that they had no right to do øo., nor to go on the groudll in such capacity, unless they had received information I L- + D. that there was a party of poachers imeiy to u" AU certain place on the highway, when of course they would take steps to apprehend them. Mr Wheldon said if the policemen, as the magis- trates admitted they did, acted as beaters for the magistrates one day, they would be unfit to act for the public the next, and he was certainly in favor of pro- | hibiting the practice altogether. Col. Mesham said it was hardly fair asking the magistrates to avoid personalties, and then chare them as magistrates with doing an act which was con- demned.- Mr Wheldon said he would withdraw the woruti al. once. He had not intended them offensively. Col. Mesham thanked Mr Wheldon for his courtesy. Mr T. Bate said they would not be Englishmen if they did not love sport, and for that reason he could not see what objection there could be to a policeman acting as beater, provided he was off duty, and that he wished it. If they prohibited it they would be interfering with the liberty of the subject, which was as dear to a policeman as to any other man. Mr Williams, Rhyl, said the public felt very sorely upon the question, and it was useless trying to hide it. There were loud complaints, it being said that officers who were paid by the public were used for private purposes. This was not right, and they could not wonder if the people spoke out. The other day he was going from Rhyl to Talacre, when he saw a shooting party in one of the coverts on the right hand side of the road. There he saw two policemen-one from Gwespyr and the other from Newmarket—both in their uniform, acting as beaters. He had been told furthermore that the two officers had been so employed for three days next and next. It was all very well to say they were there for recreation. That could not have been their object, and their only pur- pose was to protect the game. This was not acting justly towards the public, and, in his opinion, should not be permitted. It was said also they were there to prevent poachers and idlers from coming and taking away the game which was shot. That was the excuse, but he did not know whether it was valid or I not. I Mr Cooke said he had many shooting parties both in Flintshire and Yorkshire, and he never asked a policeman to come and protect his game, never having had any necessity for it. but he had seen the police- man in plain clothes, and when off duty, among the beaters, and he was very glad to see him, giving him, as the Chairman said, a pheasant or a rabbit for his trouble. Mr James Evans said it was understood that the beats of the police were so arranged that the meets should always be in the neighbourhood of some pre- serves, where poachers might be likely to go. (One of the magistrates Quite right, its where they ought to meet.) If the magistrates wanted more watchmen they should employj them, andl not take the police from their duties for the purpose. The Chief Constable said if he received an applica- tion for constables to these parties, as there were reasonable grounds for suspecting that idlers would be intent on stealing the game, he was bound to supply I them. Mr Wheldon asked whether the officers would be in uniform on such occasion. Major Webber replied in the affirmative. Mr Williams, Rhyl, asked whether the police received extra pay for the duty, or whether any charge was made for their presence ? The Chief Constable replied not. Mr Williams said it was a shame it should be so, Charges were made for the police for other purposes I Col. Mesham asked that the names of those apply- ing for the police should be given to see whether any Flintshire magistrate had made such a request. Major Webber said he had received two requests from Talacre and one from Downig. Col. Mesham But the names of the gentleman ? Major Webber said the names were Marston at Talacre, and Langdon at Downig. Mr Williams, Rhyl, asked whether Langdon was not the keeper at Downig, and not the game owner? M:1j Ir Webber said it was so, and that he had asked the opinion of Supt. Hughes on the matter, and he had replied that idlers had been known to congregate and interfere in the manner complained of. Mr C. P. Morgan said he knew the district intimately, and he had never seen nor heard ot such an offence. That was the first time he heard of such a thing. The Chairman said he had never seen a policeman as beater, who was not there at his own request. and he had never heard of the practice complained of. Mr Herbert Lewis said that during the whole debate he had not heard a single word spoken against the resolution, he took it, therefore that they were all in its favor. Mr Pennant said that if three constables had been sent cn such a duty, the police protection granted was much in excess of the requirements of the case. Col. Hore moved as an amendment to the resolu- tion of Mr Evans, that no police constable shall attend shooting parties whilst on duty," which was seconded by Mr Bate. Mr Williams asked whether if a policeman was seen in such parties in plain clothes, it would be necessary for him to produce a certificate granting him leave of absence, signed by the Chief Constable. The Chairman said that would certainly be so. The Committee then divided, when eieven voted for the amendment and seven for the original motion. The amendment having been put as a subatative motion was then agreed to, eleven voting for it. In the divisions the magistrates all voted together for the amendment, and the councillors for the original resolution. The Surveyor then read his report, most of the justices leaving the room as soon as the decision on the game question had been given. There was noth- ing special in tho (surveyor's report, some repairs which were necessary in the County Hail being left to a local committee, consisting of Messrs. E. Wheldon, Dr. Edwards, and Mr Thompson. ————— 0 —————

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