The Llanelly Mercury and South Wales Advertiser

BANK OF ENGLAND'S II NEW TERMS. I MR. BEHENXA'S ELOQUENT SPEECH. OPTIMISTIC OF THE FUTURE OF LLANELLY. BILL TO BE PROMOTED THIS SESSION. At the monthly meeting of the Harbour Trust on Monday, the Chairman (Mr D. James Davies) in connection with the promotion of the Harbour Bill, under which it is sought, to renew the Harbour loan cf £ 237,000 with the 5? ?, -ears at 3 per Bank of England for 55 years at 3 per cent., and under which the Bank are prepared to advance a further sum of £ 40,000 for 271 years at 4 per cent., moved the following motion:— "That the Trust do invite the Urban Council to join with them in the matter of the new loan arrangements with the Bank of England, and in promoting the contemplated Harbour Bill necessary to confirm such arrangements, and undertake that any costs or expenses in- curred by the Council in or about such mat- ters will be discharged or refunded by the Trust." In doing so, Mr. Davies said it was purely a formal matter, and that it was the advice of counsel that they should act jointly with the Urban Council in the promotion of the Bill. The object of the motion was to in- demnify the Council against any costs in doing so, and, as they were aware, according to one of the provisions in the Bill the first in- stalment. of the new loan would go to meet the costs of the Bill. Mr. G. F. Blake seconded the motion. Mr. W. B. Jones: Is it our Bill, or that of the Council? The Chairman: It is our Bill. Mr. Nathan Griffiths: But promoted by the Council? j??iiitly iii(? The Chairman: Promoted jointly by Hw Trust and Council. This is done upon 11w advice of counsel. Mr. Griffiths: And we undertake that any expense incurred by the Council shall be de- frayed by us. The Chairman: Yes: it will be repaid to the Council. When we borrow we shall, according to the terms of the Bill have to make applica- tion to the Board of Trade, and the Council will then be repaid any expense they may have incurred. Mr. Griffiths: But there is a resolution to be submitted to the Council to-night, whereby it is proposed "that the costs, charges, and expenses in rel-itioii to the promotion of the said Bill be charged upon and paid out of the district fund and general district rate under the control of the Council." The Chairman: Yes: tint is in order to conform with the Boiough Funds Act, hut the ultimate result of this will be that we shall be paying all the costs as a Trust. Mr. W. B. Jones: You say, Mr. Chairman, that we are advised to invite the Council to !s Bill, and, bat join us in the promotion of this Bill, and that it is our Bill. When the monies are borrowed will they he borrowed by the Council or by the Trust? The Chairman: By the Trust. Mr. W. B. Joiies: And the Council will be- come the guarantors for the amount that we owe at the present time, and also become re- sponsible and see that the interest owing is paid regularly ? The Chairman Yes, that is the position. I may say that during the negotiations things have materially changed. When the letter from the Bank came before us in the fh'st in- stance, they required that the Council should take over the loan. That is not the case now. It will not be a town. but a harbour, loan, with the Council as guarantors. Mr. ]). R. Edmunds enquired whether ::n estimate had been prepared of what the Bill would cost. The Chairman replied in the negative. Mr. Edmunds thought an estimate should certainly have been prepared, ami reminded the members that the last Harbour Bil1 cost £ 8000. "lie Bil! The Chairman: We have now a rough flt'iif of the Bill. and it only comes to nine clauses altogeiher. You cannot comparo it really B I l i l?o" with the Bill because t.ad.-»->d tiP TO that was a writ for tire recovery of the whole money. That went on from time to time, and all the while we had to deal with Messrs. Freshfield. Mr. Edmunds: But surely we can have an estimate of what the cost is going to he. be- cause we are not only making arrangements for the repayment of the existing loan, hut also for a new loan, and there is still the pos- sibility of opposition. The Chairman: I can. ask the Clerk whether whdhcr he is prepared to give an approximate esti- mate, but I don't think-- Mr. W. B. Jones (interrupting): You had better not. because when we had a petition to Parliament, the estimate of the cost was £ 24, and when we came to pay it came to £ 14-4. Mr. Edmunds: That was a very moderate excess indeed, compared with the estimate and the actual cost some years ago. Mr. John John: This is opening our eves a great deal in the method of estimating by solicitors (laughter). The Clerk said that the motion was purely a formal one. It was now some considerable time since the Trust approved of the tennis of the Bank. and they had been acting jointly with the Council in the negotiations. It was advisable, with the view of getting things to fit in with the Borough Funds Act, to pass a resolution in the form submitted by the Chair- man. Mr. W. B. Jones: When has the Bill 'to he deposited ? The Chairman: To-morrow. I think. I Mr. Edmunds: Is the draft here for inspec- tion { The Chairman: Yes. Mr. Edmunds: Then I take it. that i' will be read to US The Chairman: I don't think it is necessary, hut it wi!l l)e read to the Council this even- ing. We hove conic to these terms, and we must proceed with great haste to get the Bill I admitted as a late Bill this session. Ie we de- lay matters it will mean that we shall be losing dhe per cent. interest on £ 237,000 for I the year. Mr. Edmunds: The. motion mate" that the Trust undertake that any costs or expenses in- curred by the Council will be discharged or refunded by the Trust. Another circular has. I understand, been issued, convening a meet- ing of the Council for to-night to consider this resolution, after it has been passed by The Chairman (interrupting): No; to con- sider a formal resolution, notice erf w hich, has been given in the papers. Mr. Edmunds: But nothing will lie done if this resolution is not. passed, by us. The Chairman, continuing, sail the object of his motion was to indemnify the Council against the costs of the Bill. Mr. Edmunds: All this interruption is a little embarrassing to a speaker, Mr. Chair- man. In the notice convening this evening's meeting there is an agreement come to, the contents of which are known to the Council-— The Chairman: No. M.r Edmunds: Or, at any rate, they will he made known ,to-night, because the ciivular specifically refers to a draft agreement. That draft agreement, I submit, should be referred to here, because we. are the party borrowing, and we only invite the Council, to give colla- teral seeuritv. Since the parties interested are in agreement there can ho no hfcrm in having it read, so that the ratepayers also may know irije position. The Chairman: is no harm at all in having it read, only I \vanb:d to save time. Mr. Edmunds: Yes, but it is rushing mat- ters. The Chairman: But the principles of the agreement have been approved of by both the Council and the Trust. Mr. Edmunds: Yes, but. surely the town should also know how things stand. The Chairman: They do know. Mr Edmunds: Will you give me a guarantee that the meetings have been held in public? The Chairman: Yes, and the letters giving the terms have been published, and the only question that has been taken since then has been the drafting of the agreement. Mr. Edmunds: But the drafting is every- thing. The Chairman asked the Clerk to read the draft. Mr. W. B. Jones: Is there any necessity of reading the draft agreement before we pass this resolution? Mr. Nathan Griffiths: Yes, certainly. Mr. Edmunds: We are asked to close our eyes and open our mouths. Mr. W. B. Jones said that all the facts were known to the Trust, and they had been given to the Council. Besides, it had been unani- mously decided that they should adopt the amended terms, and he was very sorry that Mr. Edmunds was not present when the reso- lution approving of the terms was passed. Had he been present he would not have asked the questions lie ha.d that day, and thus wasted so much valuable tirne. i Mr. Nathan Griffiths said that although he was a member of the Trust and the Council he was totally ignorant of the terms of the agreement until that afternoon, when he made it his business to see the Clerk, who very cour- teously explained to him the position. There were ether Trustees who did not know the terms, and if they were blind enough to swallow the resolution without first listening to the draft agreement being read, they could, of course, do so. The Clerk then explained the draft agree- ment at some length, and when he mentioned the fact that the first clause was that, subject to the due performance on the part of the Trust cf their obligations, the Bank would lend to the Trust L40,111, and that there was a proviso that out of the first advance the interest on the arrears should be discharged, Mr. W. B. Jones asked, "Is that included c i "Il ?" The Clerk replied in the affirmative. Mr. Jones: I thought there was an objection to it. The Clerk: Yes: but I don't think the ob- jection is insurmountable, for this reason. The interest on arrears is being reduced gradually and I anticipate that before the Bill comes before the Committee of the House the in- terest OIl arrears will he still further reduced. If the dock continues to do as it is doing, the interest on arrears will have disappeared by the time the Royal Assent is obtained. Mr. Edmunds: I thought Mr. Jones knew all about that. The Chairman: I said there were points of draughtmanship that were altered at the last moment. Mr. W. B. Jones: That clause,. was in the first draft that we had before us, and the reason why I asked was that counsel seemed to think there would be a difficulty over the matter. I only wanted to know whether it had been amended. The Clerk: And you would probably have asked the question in committee. Proceeding the Clerk, in explaining another clause, said the Trust went under covenant to the Bank for the repayment of £ 237.000 by 110 equal half-yearly payments of the existing debt would he wiped out. That was on the basis of 3 per cent.. They would re- member also that the Bank had laid it down that ;hey had to get a stringent clause oblig- ing the Trust to make punctual payments in respect of principal and interest. They had put forward a clause which was a very com- mon thing in mortgages, where the mort- gagee laid it down that he must have punc- tual payments, and that was to make the Trust under covenant to pay one per cent- above the interest due unless payments were promptly made. He was glad, to say that the Bank had agreed that there should be a month within which payment had to be made. The effect of the clause would be that if the Trust were now more than a month in default they would be under liability to pay one per cent. interest more. That was made appli- cable to the old and new loan. The old loan was repayable at 3 per cent., and the the new loan at 4 per cent. But if overdue the rates would he 4 peil- ceiic. and 5 per cent. respec- tively. Mr. I). Richards: Have any changes been made in the terms since the last, joint meeting ? The Chairman replied in the affirmative, and said there was no difference in the main principles. I Mr. Edmunds suggested that the draft I agreement, should be discussed clause by clause. The Chairman: I really think the facts should all be before us. Mr. Edmunds: My mind is not as compre- hensive as yours, and I don't think it is fair to proceed in this way. The Chairman: It will assist, you to have all the clauses before you. Mr. Edmunds: But, Mr Chairman, I am the best judge of my intellect. The Chairman: I happen to know what the clauses are, and you don't. "r. Griffiths: Who are the- mortgagees? The Chairman: The Bank of England, I take it. Mr. Griffiths: Then, according to the agree- ment, the Trustees of the mortgagees are still eligible to sit. on the Trust. The Chairman: I don't gather that. Mr. Edmunds: I was going to make the sug- gestion that this was a convenient opportunity to knock off the ex-officio members. The Chairman: We are making it a purely financial Bill. The Clerk, replying to, Mr. Griffiths's con- tention that the Benk's representatives would still be eligible to act on the Trust, said it. was incorrect. Mr. Griffiths: Read the clause, please. I read it myself only two hours ago.. The Clerk: Is your point this: that in spite of the abolition of the Joint Committee the Bank are still entitled to appoint representa- tives on the Trust? Mr. Griffiths: Yes. The Clerk said that the section referred to by Mr. Griffiths, which was in inverted commas, was not a clause in the agreement at all. Mr. Edmunds: Are we to pay the Bank of England's costs in connection with this Bill? The Chairman: Yes: I may say that both the Bank's solicitors and Mr. Nairne, the cashier, have, said that, they will keep the costs down as much as possible on this occa- sion. Mr Edmunds asked whether the mortgagees would have anything to say if the Board of Trade and ratepayers agreed to an advance of any of the new loan of £ 40,000. The Clerk replied that they would have something to say should the Trust be in arrear in their payments. Mr. Edmunds said, in regard to the clause dealing with the interest to lie paid, he hap- pened to be engaged in doing exactly the same tiring, and he had two contplaints to make. In the first place, the difference be- tween 3 and 4 p&r cent, was out of proportion to what was ordinarily charged. When pay- ments were not punctually made in accor- t dance vvkh a deed, trie increased interest pay- able was from TO A per cent. Then .again, supposing there was, owing to exceptional de- pression- in the town. one default, it should he ( made clear in the agreement that the in- crease.! interest should only be in respect of The Clerk: So far as the latter pobit made by that half-year. it )ii] 'N'apl)lies to Mr. Edmunds is concerned, it only applies to t!icha!f-yc:n'in vl'?ch the dpf.n?t fakes place. M.. Edmunds: I certainly think that an ad- I ditional one per cent. in a large loan of this kind is excessive. Mr. W. B. Jones: But Mr. Edmunds forgets that the Bank are going to reduce our present interest by one per cent. The difficulty is that unless we pay under the new agreement we shall have to pay under the old regime. Personally, I think the Bank have dealt handsomely with us. I believe you, Mr. Chairman, unintentionally misled Mr. David Richards when he asked if there was any- thing new in the attitude of the Bank. The Chairman: I think Mr. Richards asked whether there was any change in the terms, and what I said was that there was a, change in our favour. Mr. W. B. Jones: You omitted to say the change was in our favour. The Chairman: I did not answer him as fully as I intended. Mr. Edmunds: According to the. agreement you are going to pay principal and interest in equal half-yearly payments, and there will be no sinking fund. What has become of the sinking fund? The Clerk: There has been no sinking fund for the last five years. Mr. Blake said the Bank had abandoned the appointment of an official receiver, which was a very forcible weapon, and had given them most reasonable terms instead. Mr. Griffiths: It is well that it should be known that these terms mean the granting of an unlimited rate to the Bank. The Clerk: No; it is a. limited rate. Mr. Blake expressed the hope that it would not go forth to the public that they were going in for an unlimited rate, because it was nothing of the kind. Mr. Griffiths: Certainly it is. Mr. Blake: You have spoken about fifty times already. Please let me do so once. Our liability per annum is limited, and when per- sons say otherwise they say that which is in- correct. Mr. Griffiths asked the Trust to assume for a moment that Nature diverted the river, and blocked up the entrance to the dock, with the result that no revenue could he derived from the harbour. He submitted that in such an event the town would be called upon for the full amount. Mr. W. B. Jones: 'Supposing the entrance to the dock were closed, and the river was diverted to Swansea, if Mr. Griffiths can take it there, our indebtedness to the Bank after all would be £ 8822 a year, and they cannot ask for a penny more. A 2s. 2d. rate will cover it. How can it therefore be an unlimited rate? But with the Harbour revenue as it is at present, a rate of Is. 5d. in the £ will cover it. If you have no faith in the prosperity of the town, you had better contifiue to do as much damage as you can by proclaiming what you have just said. I think it a scan- dalous shame that persons like Mr. Griffiths should go about the town telling people that which he ought to know is not true, and thereby endeavouring to thwart our efforts to do that which we are trying to do for the benefit of the ratepayers of the town. If they only give five minutes' consideration to the matter they will find that it is a limited rate, and not an unlimited rate, and Mr. Griffiths knows it. The Clerk: The position is as Mr Jones puts it. You have, in round figures, to pay on existing loans E8822 a year, and it is interest- ing to note just precisely where we are at pre- sent with regard to the precept. Without making any anticipations of, what the amount is likely to be in the future, I can give you the actual figures which were paid by the Council to the Trust during the last twelve months. The two precepts, leaving out the shillings and pence, came to £ 8055, and as you have to pay £ 8822 to the Bank you are left with a balance of P.233 to the good after you have paid your proportion of principal, which you are compelled to pay at present, and interest. So you have £ 233 without taking into account a single penny from your docks. Supposing an earthquake took place, and took away the bar and the dock, and left the town severely alone (laughter), -'t would mean that you could pay your instalment, and* still be left with over it200 to the good. Of course, if you go on borrowing portions of the £ 40.000, you have to go into another little calculation, and it is this: for every L100 you borrow you have to pay £6 Os. Id., which would pay it off, capital and interest, in 27i years. Capt. David Thomas sail they were beggars and could not, therefore, he choosers. He had not heard from any of his colleagues a way of getting better terms, or any means of getting out of the difficulty. If they did not accept these terms they would not get any better from any other source. Mr. W. B. Jones: No, nor as good. Capt. Thomas: We shall, therefore, have to abandon our scheme for the improvement of the harbour, upon which we are unanimously agreed, if we refuse these terms. Mr. E. L. Behenna: What is the total amount, of tonnage we require in Llanelly to cover the interest charged absolutely? The Superintendent: That has never been worked out with any exactitude. Mr. Behenna: Can you give me an approxi- mate figure? The Superintendent: You would have, to do more than double your present trade in the North Dock. Mr. Behenna, having thanked the Chairman and Mr. Griffiths for their kindly words of welcome, assured the Trust that anything he could do personally would be done in the in- terests of Llanelly. He pointed out that the shipments of coal at Llanelly from the col- lieries with which lie was connected amounted to fifteen thousand tons last year, and up to the present this year he had shipped 11,000 tons. He had no hesitation in saying—and he wanted Mr. Nathan Griffiths to listen to him- that, had they been in a position to send boats of larger tonnage to Llanelly they would have shipped a great deal lllore-ancl this was not an optimistic view, because his mind rather tended the other way—they would have shipped at least 50,000 tons at Llanelly up to the present week from January last. If any member of the Trust called at his office in Swansea he would be happy to give him docu- mentary evidence of this. If they turned to their tide-tables they would find that they I were in a period of low water, and as a result, he had been compelled to load a. boat of 1400 or 1500 tons at Swansea. They would recol- lect that he recently commenced shipments of this class at Llanelly, and he was glad to say that the people were highly delighted with the attention and despatch given the boat. They said they would without the slightest demur send their boats again when they had freights. He. had made certain proposals to a German firm, but, unfortunately, on referring to the Llanelly tide-table it was found impos- sible to get the boat here. They would thus see that they stood to gain by improving their channel, so that, whatever the techni- calities of the Harbour Bill were, lie urged upon them—and he was speaking as an active shipper, who was anxious to see the port floi.irisli--to hurry the matter forward. They had either to stand still or go forward, and they could not go forward unless they deepened the -channel. The sooner they deepened it the better. He ha.d not the slightest hesitation in saying that from the four collieries, the output of which he con- trolled, he would be able to work up a trade for Llanelly of 200,000 tons per annum, and there was other tonnage that could be got in addition. He desired Mr. Griffiths to carry that statement to the Council that evening. In order to show the disabilities under which they laboured, Mr. Behenna pointed out that an eloquent epistle written by the Superin- tendent had been translated and sent. to a. French firm, who were prepared to send a hoat here for trial. Unfortunately, the boat would not be ready until May 12th, and the consequence was that the trial had to be put off to a future date because of the low' tides. In regard to the local collieries they. were at a given moment obliged to clear the place, and as they had no certainty about Llanelly they had to take the coal to Swansea. When [ they were able to load at Llanelly, they found that their coal was at Swansea, and, having regard to these disabilities, the Trust had either to make terms with the Bank and get to work, or remain still. There was another point of interest, and that was the question of pilotage. He had received a letter from Mr. Rees, and compared the charges with Swan- sea. At Llanelly they charged for a boat of 1600 tons £ 8 15s., inwards and outwards; at Swansea, the same boat, would be dealt with for £ 4 12s., so that they had a difference of £ 4 3s. in actual pilotage inwards and out- wards. Of course, Mr. Rees argued that dispatch should compensate for that; but owners did not look at it in that way at all It might work all right at present, when boats were plentiful, but when boats were scarce, and freights plentiful, they would go to the cheapest ports. He desired to urge upon the Trustees the fact that they had behind them .an important coalfield. It was to their in- terest to develop Llanelly, and it was to the interest, of the Trust to develop the port, and he wanted Mr. Griffiths, in particular, to re- member that what he was saying was an ab- solute fact. They were losing now at Llanelly at least fifty per cent, of stuff which they could deal with, provided they had the facili- ties. Until their channel was deepened they could only go on in their present happy-go- lucky fashion; but once, that was brought I about he repeated that the collieries with which he was connected would alone bring a trade of at least 200,000 tons per annum to Llanelly. He was not sufficiently versed in II their financial position to enter into detailed discussion, but from what he had gathered it seemed to him that the terms proposed were such as could certainly be accepted by any authority. In his opinion, the town of Llan- elly could not do better than accept the Bank's terms, and get to work as soon as possible. Mr. Edmunds said that, lest it might be construed that he was opposed to the pro- posals, he might say that, apart from a few minor details, he was in entire agreement with them, and was going to vote for them. Mr. Nathan Griffiths said lie was pleased to hear Mr Behenna's speech, which would carry more weight with the ratepayers than any other speech he had heard or made (laughter). After further discussion it was unanimously decided to approve of the Chairman's motion. The Chairman then formally moved that the seal of the Trust be affixed to the petition for leave to bring in the Bill in the next Ses- sion of Parliament as a late Bill. Mr. W. B. Jones seconded, and the motion was unanimously agreed to.

Council and the Harbour Bill TO BE JOINTLY PROMOTED. A special meeting of the Urban District Council was held on Monday night, Mr. E. T. Jones presiding, when a resolution was passed authorising the promotion of a Bill jointly with the Harbour Trust, in the present session of Parliament, for the purpose of sanctioning an indenture of charge intended to be made and entered into between the Llanelly Har- bour Trust, the Council, and the Bank of Eng- land, and that the costs, charges, and ex- penses of the Bill be charged upon the Dis- trict Rate under the control of the Council. Mr. Bramwell Jones asked why the notice was only inserted in the Cardiff papers. The Clerk replied that it did not appear in the local papers because it had to be rushed through. Messrs. Freshfield, who were acting in the matter, always kept them on tenter- hooks, and they had to rush the matter through. The notice did not refer to a rate- payers' meeting. He was glad to be able to report that, after very prolonged discussions upon details, they had come to an arrange- ment which, so far as their advisers could see, interpreted exactly the true meaning of the bargain which had already been made be- tween the town and the Bank of England. The arrangement carried out exactly what the Urban Council and Harbour Trust unani- mously decided they would accept by way of terms for the re-arrangement of the Harbour loan. The interpretation was contained in an indenture which was proposed to be entered into between the parties, setting out the amount due from the Harbour Trust to the Bank, amounting to nearly £237.ÖOO, U1d also setting out the amount of principal money that was due on November 24th, 1909, includ- ing interest and income tax. The first clause in the agreement stated that, subject to the due performance of all the obligations of the Trust and Council under that indenture, the Bank would lend further sums of money, not exceeding in the aggregate Z40,000, such sums to be authorised from time to time by the Board of Trade. There was a condition that the Harbour Trust should discharge any in- terest that may be due to the Bank at the time when the contemplated Bill became, law. They would also recollect that the Bank laid it down that there should, be a stringent clause in the deed which would ,ensure to the Bank that the interest and the principal comprised in the instalments should be punctually paid. and the Bank, in regard to that matter—and which the advisers of the Trust thought satis- factory—would make an arrangement which was often made in ordinary mortgages. For instance, the existing loan would be lent to the town at 3 per cent. The new document stated that the town were to pay 4 per cent, interest, but if they paid punctually, and a j month's time was allowed, the rate would lie .1 reduced to 3 per cent. In regard to the ad- vance of £ 40,000, the interest similarly was to he paid at 5 per cent, hut if punctually paid, I and a month would be allowed, it would be reduced to 4 per cent. One thing of consider- able importance in the document, was that the payments that had to be made to the Bank on the existing loans were absolutely fixed aud ascertained by a stated figure, i.e., that the Trust were to pay each six months £ 4411 19s. 3d. during the currency of the loan for 55 years. By means of that payment the loan would be absolutely redeemed in the 55 years, which payment commenced from September, 1909. Similarly, with reg-anI ill tIw £.40,000, this was to be repaid by a sum of iP,6 Os, 7d., to be hand handed, over in the course of the year to the Bank of England in respect of each ielOO. The next clause was that the instal- ments were to be paid at the head office of the Bank. Clause No. 4 stated that the Trust should charge the payment to the Bank, Har- bour undertaking, Harbour revenue, income on Town Estate, capital money, subject to the existing mortgage, and subject to the mortgage at Lloyd's Bank. Of course, the existing charges at the Bank were kept on by way of collateral security. Clause 6 pledged the Trust to make all legal demands on the Council, and the Council to perform their part- in raising the necessary funds for the purpose of meeting the demands of the Trust. Clause 7 reserved the position of the old mort- gage. Clause 8 provided that the Council and the Trust had to appeal for an Act to con- firm the deed, and to repeal various provi- sions of the Harbour Act of 1904, one of which had reference to the Joint Committee and the I appointment of the Bank's two representa- tives, who had cost hitherto three hundred guineas per .annum.. Clause 9 provided for the payment of legal expenses involved in the negotiations of the deed and the contem- plated Bill. Clause 10 was one which was I always inserted in documents subject to Par- liamentary sanction, ft was conditional upon I the Bill being obtained in this or )the next session, subject to alterations by Parliament, by the consent of both parties. The meeting was purely a formal one, because counsel advising the local authorities was very anxious that, the Bill should be strictly car- ried out under the Borough Funds Act pro- cedure. which was started in 1862 for the pur- pose of making it perfectly clear that where there was a charge upon the rates, the people who paid the rates were to be agreed. All. the other Harbour Acts had been really subject to procedure which wa.s analogous, but not identical. The authorities who were promo- ting the Bill had first of all to meet, and lad to decide whether the Bill should be i ro- rnoted. The Bill was then got into print, and it was deposited for public inspection at the office of the clerk to the authorities, so that any ratepayer, by the payment of a few shil- lings, could have a copy. After the expiration of the notice, the ratepayers could have an opportunity of voting for or against the Bill. The Harbour Trust that day called upon the Council to formally join them in promoting the Bill, and they had agreed to give to that authority an absolute indemnity with regard to the payment of the costs. Certain rav- ments might have to be made by that Coun:-il, such as printing, advertising, etc., and, in order to put the Council right with the Government Auditor, it was necessary to have a resolution passed giving them an indemnity, which meant that anything incurred by them would be either discharged or refunded by the Harbour Trust. In the judgment of coun- sel it was expedient that the Bill should lip promoted jointly with the Harbour Trust, and that the costs, charges, and expenses he charged upon the General District Rate. Mr. Griffiths contended that there should be a limit put on the rates; say 4s. or 5s. At the present time it was an unlimited rate. Mr. D. R. Jones thought it would he ad- visable, before the ratepayers' meeting was convened, that ward meetings should be held in the various wards. Mr. D. James Davies said Mr. Nathan Grif- fiths seemed to be in favour of and against the Bill. He raised the question of an un- limited rate that afternoon, and the Clerk pointed out the position most clearly, and all the members were satisfied, and even Mr. Griffiths voted for the resolution. The Clerk also pointed out that the product of a 2s. rate would be more than sufficient to meet the amount guaranteed on the £ 237.000. The mat- ter was explained to Mr. Griffiths, who made a bugbear of the matter in order to frighten the people who were not in the same position- as themselves to judge the terms. Mr. Frank Vivian asked whether the P,40,000 was to be devoted wholly towards the improve- ment of the channel. The Clerk replied in the negative. Mr. Simlett said lie would like to know the amount of Waddell's claim. It was stated to be £ 20.000. Mr. D. J. Davies: Nonsense. Mr. Simlett: If it is nonsense, why don't you as a. committee let us know something? Mr. Davies: We have. Mr. Simlett: No, you have not. We have had nothing submitted to us. Mr. W. H. Samuel said he would like to ask the Clerk a question, so that he could be in the same position as Caesar's wife—above sus- picion. Recently there had been a great deal of bother with regard to the honorariums of £500 and £ 400. The reason given by those who advocated those honorariums was that extra services had been rendered in promoting I Parliamentary Bills. Would Mr. Spowart ex- pect any additional salary for any extra ser- vices rendered by him in the promotion of this Bill ? The Clerk said Mr. Samuel would, upon consideration, come to the conclusion that it was scarcely fair to ask him to say "Aye" or "Nay" at that juncture. The matter had been referred to a, committee consisting of the whole of the Council, who were considering it. Mr. Joseph Roberts had given a notice of motion which would have the effect of paving the way for the prevention of such a difficulty recurring in the future. Without in any way anticipating the result of the committee's de- cision, he wished to state that he had always been perfectly willing to come to an arrange- ment whereby the whole of his work would be included in his salary; but so far as the matter was now concerned, he believed the obvious answer was that he was in the hands of the two bodies which lie was bound to serve. They would consider the matter, and duly make a report, hut before the report was made he claimed to have the privilege of set- ting forth a statement of faetsand figures which would put the Council and everybody who would take th? trouble to read them out- side the walls of that building in a position to know how things really were. It would eradi- cate a great deal of misunderstanding, and in the present position, when the matter was sub judice, lie asked them not. to ask him to go further than, he had gone. Mr. Griffitbs: The Clerk's answer is that he is still in the same position to claim as lie was before. The Clerk: M i'/h; I suggest that the com- ment. of Mr. Griffiths is unfair to a man who has to sit down and keep his mouth shut. Mr. Samuel made it clear that he was not "going for" Mr. Spowart. Some of the rate- pers had been "going for" him on the question. He mentioned the matter so that no sllsnieioll might he cast on the Clerk. The Clerk: I am obliged to you. I Mr. Joseph Roberts asked whether the Har- bour Trust had had the definite opinion of their advisers in London that there was a prospect of the Bill being successful. State- ments had been made in the town that, tire Harbour Trust were proceeding with the Bill against the opinion of their legal advisers. The Clerk said he was surprised—exceeding- ly surprised—that anybody should make such a statement. There never was a, Bill at any time in which eloser attention had been given to the advice of men who were absolutely in the front rank of exports in matters of that, kind. The last word in the agreement was absolutely the outcome of the very closest advice by the Council's advisers'—advisers whom thev had proved on more than one oc- casion to he worthy of the name. The foregoing resolution was subcquently | unanimously carried. I

LOCAL BANKRUPTS. I BUTCHER AN n A GENERAL MERCHANT. 11 I The Carmarthenshire Bankruptcy Court was held at Carmarthen last week, before Mr. Deputy Registrar Thomas Walters. j David Va-ughan (25), a Cross Hands grocer and general merchant, attributed his failure to want of capital, pressure by creditors, heavy interest on loans, bad trade, and law costs. His gross liabilities came to £ 416 10s. 9d., and his deficiency to Mr. W. J. Wall is Jones was for the debtor* and Mr. Claude R. Davies, Llanciilo for credi- tors. On ili(' apr,lil'¡:on of the latter the cas) j adicumed to <hc aext?ittinc. I ASSIZE JUDGMENT. Henry Bo wen, butcher, Glaum or Road, Llanelly, estimated his gross liabilities, at, £ 536 Ss. 10d., and his deficiency at C226 4s. 9d. He alleged that his failure was due to a judgment given against him fc)k iE-OO at the last Carmar- thenshire Assizes, in respect of a mortgage to Mr. J. H. Evans, solicitor, Newcastle Emlyn. The case was adjourned for a month. I

? Puritan; I"r Iii a3P oa". :1 ? ??E # W I. .My f..J l, our rleno  WUf for years «^8§8 II' and 7a;:e¡:.same '1 I W 2d. & 3M.; worth it.  THOMAS, Bristol.

G. W. R. LLANELLY PLATFORM ARRIVALS OCTOBER, 1909, TO APRIL, 1910. UP TRAINS. A.M. 7.57 Slow train to Landore, then fast train to Paddingnton. 9.10 Slow train to Bristol and Reading (via Loop) I 9.48 Llanelly and Barry Port, leaves Burry Port 9.35. 10.30 Fast train to Paddington. 10.55 Jfast train to Paddington P.M. 12.49 Slow train Swansea (Saturdays only). 1. 7 Fast train to Paddington. 1.18 Llanelly and Burry Port, leaves Barry Port 1.10 155 Fast train to Gloucester, Cheltenh&W and North. 3.28 Fast train to Gloucester. j j 4.43 Fast train to Swansea to meet Boat tr.ir1 (via Loop). 5.44 Slow train to Swansea (via Loop). 7.14 Slow train to Swansea (Tuesdays and Saturdays only). 7.23 Fast train to Newport. 8.33 Mail train to Paddington. 9.45 Slow train to Swansea (Saturdays only) SUNDAYS A.M. 8.20 Fast train to Paddington 10.12 Slow train to Swansea. P.M. 5.50 Slow train to Aberdare. 8.33 Mail train to Paddington. DOWN TRAINS. A.M. 4.26 Fast train to Carmarthen and then slow to Neyland. 7.45 Slow train to Carmarthen (Saturdays only). 8.37 Slow train to Aberystwyth. 9.13 Fast train to Carmarthen and then slow to Fishguard. 9.20 To Burry Port only. 10.17 Slow train to Pembroke Dock. P.M. 12.32 Fast train to Aberystwyth. 1.27 Slow train to Aberystwyth. 2.30 Llanelly and Burry Port (Saturdays only). 3. 0 Slow train to Lisindyssil. 4.10 Fatt train to Carmarthen slow to Neyland 4.53 Slow train to Carmarthen. 5.57 Slow train to Neyland. 8. 0 Slow train to Pembrey. 8.30 Slow train to Carmarthen. 9.32 Fast train to Fishguard (Cork Boat). 10.18 Tuesdays and Saturdays only. 11.30 Slops at Llanelly. SUNDAYS. A.M. 4.26 Fast train to Neyland. J 11.48 Slow train to Carmarthen. P.M. 8.36 Slow train to Neyland LLANELLY, LLANDOVERY, & BRYNAMAN. Arrivals. Departures. A.M. A.M. 9. 0 5.20 10.15 8.15 P.M. 9.50 12.15 11. 5 1.35 P.M. 8. 5 12.50 4.40 2. 5 7. 0 4.20 8.20 6.15 *10. 0 SUNDAYS. 5.45 P.M. 6.55 A.M. Saturdays only. BURRY PORT AND PONTYBEREM. Departures 'from Departures from Burry Port. Pontyberem. A.M. A.M. 5.30 7.45 9.40 P.M. P.M. 12.25 2. 0 3.30 5.25 .4. 0 *8.20 f6.40 *9.30 Saturdays orly. f Tuesdays and Saturdays only. jv No. G.4ü train on Tuesday from Pontyberem. Ae 9.30 p.m. on Saturday only calls at PontyeateS