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ABERGAVENNY BOARD OF I GUARDIANS. I 2Sd. REDUCTION IN RATES. I I IS A CHILDREN'S HOME NECESSARY? I The fortnightly meeting of the Abergavenny -Board of Guardians was held on Friday, Major W. Williams presiding. There were also present Mr. H. J. Gwillim (Vice-Chairman), Father WrsV, Rev. J. F. W. Trumper, Rev. D. E. Hughes, Messrs. Benjamin Price, W m. W illiams, John Prichard, Edgar W. Lewis, George Spencer, J. W. Williams, George Dan do, John B aynam, Alfred Edwards, Wm. Biggs, Thos. Thomas, Wm. Gwillim and Joseph Howells. Master's Report. The Master reported that the number m the house was 126, compared with 162 for the corresponding period last year, a decrease of 36. The number of vagrants relieved was 78, com- pared with 130 for the corresponding period last year, a decrease of 61. Gifts of flowers had been received from the Christ Church and Salvation Army harvest festivals, and Mrs. Blackmore. All Smoke. r The Master, in his list of requirements tor tne fortnight, asked for I I tbs. of tobacco, an increase of I It). Ti-ie Pev. J. F. W. Truinper said that all of them were now compelled to make certain sacrifices in their mode of living, and it was not unreasonable to expect that there would be a reduction at the workhouse. The consump- tion of tobacco had gone up considerably, and it would be a good deal better for some people if thev did not smoke at all. The Chairman said that. as a non-smoker, he opposed Mr. Trumper's suggestion. They were sending tobacco to the soldiers at the front, and people who were shut up all the week in the workhouse and never went outside certainly wanted tobacco as badly as the soldiers. The Rev. J. F. W. Trumper said that whether they wished to deprive the inmates -or not, things would have to be considered. differently in future. it The Vice-Chairman said they had to remember that any increased expenditure on tobacco went to the Government. Mr. Trumper said they also had to remember that the money to pay for the tobacco had to come out of the pockets of the ratepayers. He had considerably reduced his own consumption of tobacco, and it was not unreasonable to expect the inmates of the workhouse to do the same. Mr. Joseph Howells said they were saving /50 by the introduction of margarine, and they ought not to deprive the inmates of tobacco as well. Mr. Trumper said he did not consider they were depriving the inmates of anything by using margarine instead of butter. He would tell them a story about margarine. A Monmouth Guardian was against the use of margarine, and the other dav when the committee wo ?re con- sidering the question they had the samples of butter before them. The Guardian in question, who claimed to know everything there was to know about butter and margarine, was asked his opinion as to which was the best sample. He picked up the margarine and said that was the best. (Laughter). Members Like Margarine. The Chairman I will tell you a story til a., is actually true, and happened only yesterday. If you had been at the house committee meeting you would have seen it. I gave tea to the members, as usual, and I gave orders to the Matron to provide margarine and not biitt?e?r. Everyone enjoyed it and thought they had been eating butter, and wouldn't believe it when I told them. Rev. Mr. Trumper They weren't sick at any rate. Father Wray I can only say that I wouldn't stop to have it. The Chairman I hope you all would not stop. I should save by it. Rev. Mr. Trumper (to Father Wray) Then you are not in a position to say anything about it. Father Wray I am. I naturally suspected that it was margarine. The Chairman You only suspected it, but didn't know. Mr. Joseph Howells asked if the inmates were having the best quality margarine. The Master said it was one of the best on the market. Rev. Mr. Trumper We are not giving them anything but what we would take ourselves. Mr. Joseph Howells We don't take it. Mr. John Prichard said that on his visit to the house Mr. Alfred Edwards tasted the margarine and found it very good. There was not a Single complaint, and the opinion was that the mar- garine was as good as any butter. Rev. Mr. Trumper A good deal better than bad butter. A member asked if Mr. Edwards tasted the margarine in the stores. Mr. Alfred Edwards said he did, and also had margarine at tea. It really surprised him how good it was. The Chairman I believe you voted against margarine at the start ? Mr. Alfred Edwards I did. Rev. Mr. Trumper He is converted. Father Wray If he is converted, I say he is converted bv a trick. (Laughter). Mr. Alfred Edwards No trick at all. Mr. Alfred Edwards asked if the tobacco was to be reduced. The Master said it was an ounce for every man. It was a luxury, and it was a lot of monev to spend. With regard to sending tobacco to the trenches, the men there were a different class to those they had in the work- house, and they deserved all they could send to them. Rev. Mr. Trumper Cannot we limit it to iolbs. ? I object to this extra lib. I propose that iolbs. be allowed; Mr. Alfred Edwards seconded. Father Wray said he was in favour of the inmates having the tobacco, and he should propose, as an amendment, that the present amount be continued. Mr. Alfred Edwards There are 126 in the house, and we used to have 160 or 170. The Chairman We can rely that the Master is only doing the right thing. On being put to the vote it was decided by 11 -votes to 7 that the present allowance be con- tinued. Bread and Cheese Instead of Meat. Rev. Mr. Trumper asked if there was any decrease in meat since the substitution of bread and cheese for meat dinners. The Master said he did not understand that sanction had yet been received from the Local Government Board to do this. Rev. Mr. Trumper It was passed long • enough ago. The Clerk said he had written to the Local Government 'Board for their sanction to the alteration, but had not yet received a reply. The Master asked if he could alter it before thev got a reply., The Clerk said he could act upon the decision of the Guardians. The Master said he could start it during the coming week. Reductionf Out Relief. I The Clerk reported that there was a decrease in the amount of out relief during the fortnight of £ 12 os. 6d. The Vice-Chairman fIo of which is in Blaenavon. Father Wrav Is that due to economy ? The Vice-Cllairman. There are a less number on the books. Father Wray But is not a good deal due to economy, too? Rates Well Collected. I The Clerk read the collectors statements as to the collection of rates in the various parishes, and these showed that the amounts outstanding were very small. He said he did not think the Tates were better collected in any Union in the country, as these statements showed. Overpayments of Rates. I The Clerk reported on the successful applica- tion of the overseers of seven parishes for a re- fundment of overpayment of rates to tlTeCouftty Council, in consequence of the reduction of th assessment of the Great Western Railway; This matter was fully reported in the Chronicle last week. The Clerk paid a tribute to Mr. J. 0. I Marsh for the persistent energy with, which he í had brought the application before the County Council, and the success of the application was largely due to him. Mr. John Baynam And to Mr. Sam Davies as well. Reference. I Nurse Todd applied tor a reference as nurse in I charge of the infirmary for the past two years, I and the Clerk was instructed to supply one. Reduction in Rates. I The Clerk read a letter from the Clerk of the County Council to the effect that though the recommendations for the reduction of expendi- ture were not yet adopted, they might take it that his next precept would be 2d. less than his last one, but there would be no alteration in the education rate for the ensuing half-year. He (Mr. Scanlon) had prepared the calls on the basis of a reduction of 2d. in the county rate and Jd in the rate for Union expenses. Boarding Out of Children Pontypool Union's I Offer. The Clerk read a letter from the Pontypoo1 Union to the effect that they had staffed their children's home at considerable expense, and they would have permanent surplus accommoda- tion for a large number of children. It had occurred to them that some of the neighbouring Unions might be glad to make arrangements for the boarding out of their children. If the matter commended itself to the Board, they would be pleased to supply further particulars or make arrangements for a deputation to confer with their committee. Rev. Air. Trumper e should luce to K-llV\\ what the charge is. Father Wrav It is a very good suggestion. Mr. John Prichard They have over built, I take it. Father Wray Supposing they have, it may be a very good suggestion, and it might get this Board out of a difficulty. The Clerk It would be well to ascertain the terms. I The Clerk was instructed to ascertain the terms. I Children's Home Site Is it Necessary ? I The Clerk read a letter from the Marquess ol Abereavennv's solicitors that they took it the Guardians saw no objection to the draft con- veyance, subject to the settlement of the ques- tions as to the iron fence at the bottom end over- looking the Castle meadows, the question as to who was to build the wall along the boundary of the adjoining property and the question of the use of the buildings erected on the plot His Lordship waived the point as to approving the design of the fence, if the word cftrnamental was retained and the word fnclimbable was added His Lordshio would not agree to erect the wall. The land was being sold to oblige the Guardians, for a purpose which decidedly did not improve his adjoining property, and it was not reason- able to expect him to spend a large sum in erecting boundaries. The wall must be erected at the expense of the Guardians-. They might point out, however, that their original clause said wall or fence, and it was Mr. Baker who added the word brick and struck out the word fence and at the same time specified the height and width of the wall. If the Guardians liked to revert to the original clause they did not anticipate any objection. With regard to the clause relating to the use of the property, they had added the words The Guardians shall not use any building erected on the property as an infectious ward, common lodging-house, va- ■ grants' ward, lunatic ward, or the maintenance of persons of unsound mind, and shall not permit any offensive nuisance, dangerous trade or occupation to be carried on on the premises." The Clerk said it was a question for the Guardians to say what kind of a fence they would have. That seemed now to be the only question at issue. Rev. Mr. Trumper Would not a wire fence do ? Father Wray What do they mean by the word ornamental ? The Clerk: An unclimbable fence ought to satisfy them. Father Wray Ornamental might mean a good deal. Rev. Mr. Trumper We ought to have some idea of the cost. Mr. Joseph Howells Do you mean to do awav with the brick wall entirely ? The Clerk Yes. Would not an unclimbable fence all round be sufficient? Mr. Prichard: Would not it be wise to see what terms Pontypool can ofter us ? Perhaps it would be wise to put off building for years. Rev. Mr. Trumper I don't vote for spending any money now. Mr. John Prichard His Lordship is evidently doing this to oblige us, and he would be glad to have the land. This offer from Pontypool may be of great advantage to us. Father Wray (to the Master) What is the number of children you have in the house now ? The Master Eleven children, and four of them under three. Father Wray It is ludicrous if you are going to build all this for that number. The Catholic children go to Nazareth House, Cardiff, and the Catholic boys to St. Michael's House, Treforest Rev. Mr. Trumper Let us have this inform- ation from Pontypool. Mr. Joseph Howells But we can get this question settled as to whether we are to have a fence or a wall. The Chairman Do you agree to adjourn the discussion for a fortnight ? Father Wray I suppose till the conveyance is signed there is no obligation on our part. The Clerk No. I will get the information from Pontypool. Increased Prices. Messrs. Cadle & Son wrote that certain articles would be increased in price, owing to the extra duty, as follows :—Demarara sugar, 4d., against 3^d. per lb. granulated sugar, 3-d. against 341 d. tobacco, 6s. id. as against 4s. 2d. per-lb. tea, 2S. o4d. as against is. std. per lb. The Clerk said Messrs. Cadle & Son must satisfy them that they had paid the extra duty. Rev. Mr. Trumper said the Government had intimated that they would not allow sugar to be sold above a certain price. Mr. George Dando This is -1d. below that -price. The Higher Education Rate. I The Rev. J. F. W. Trumper referred to the recent Local Government Board inquiry at Newport with regard to the application to in- crease the Higher Education Rate by ltd. in the f.. He understood that the ltd. had been embodied in the present precept, and he did not think it was fair. He was quite taken aback at the inquiry when he heard that the extra i |d. rate was required for money that had actually been spent. The Education Committee had furnished Caerleon College and asked the Local Government Board to sanction their action. There were a great many officials connected with the County Council who might be dispensed with, and many ways in which the expenditure could b considerably reduced, without inflicting the slightest harm on anyone. Mr. George Dando said he was given to under- stand that if part of the money required was raised by rate and part by loan, an extra rate of only Vd. would be required instead of 1 Ul. Father Wray said he was given to understand that the Local Government Board would not grant a loan. Rev. Mr. Trumper said as far as he could gather it was most likely that they would. The Vice-Chairman said they went to the inquiry without sufficient knowledge as to the f acts. They went to oppose a thing which was practically bound to be granted, either by loan or an increase of rate. Father Wray Because the money is spent. The Vice-Chairman said the committee had spent about £ 6,350 in furnishing Caerleon Train- ing College, which was a reasonable amount, considering the size of the place. They had spent a considerable amount in laying out the grounds and in different ways, which, in the ordinary course, would have been the subject of a loan. Mr. Dauncey, the Clerk, had an interview with the Local Government Board officials, and a loan was practically promised verbally, but when an application was made for a loan the Treasury stepped in and said they had no money and could not grant a loan. The result was that the expenditure had to be met by ah overdraft at the bank. As the Local Government Board would not grant a loan, the only alternative was to levy a rate. He rather fancied that the inquiry would result in a loan. They looked simple when they opposed the application and were asked what their alterna- tive was. They were not prepared with any suggestions as to how to pay off the money which had been spent. But for the war there would have been no need for the application, as it could have been the subject of a loan in the ordinary course. The Chairman said that when it was decided to build a boys' and girls' college in South Wales, Monmouthshire had the chance of one, and they decided to take the Boys' College. He main- tained that they were justified in doing so and not letting it go outside the county. The Government promised so much, and the principal informed them that in time it would be a paying college. Let him remind them that in Aberga- venny they were receiving £$§o a year in grants to the Grammar School out of the rates. He thought the County Council were doing what was right and fair for the county at large. Father Wray You seem to have executed a right-about-face. The Chairman In what way ? Father Wray You seemed to be thoroughly opposed to the County Council. Father Wray Tell me, what did I oppose ? Father Wray- You were one who suggested that this deputation should go there to oppose the application. The Chairman: Oppose a rate. Don't con- fuse a loan with a rate. They went down to oppose a rate. Father Wray Don't think I don't know the I difference between a loan and a rate. The Chairman I believe they have succeeded I in not having a rate, and that a loan will be I granted, spread over a term of years. Inmates to do Knitting. I The Chairman said that various institutions were doing knitting for different societies, and the Master said the inmates would be willing to assist. He would like to know if the Board had any objection. Rev. Mr. Trumper No, let them do anything they can. they The Board agreed to the suggestion. ———— ————

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