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The Education Deadlock.I --7,-

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The Education Deadlock. I --7, St. Asaph Guardians and the County Council Precept. Mr Councillor Ellis Beards the Chairman. FOLLOWING upon the debate at the previous meeting, another lively discussion: ensued at the St. Asaph Board of Guardians, on Friday last, in connection with the County Council precept. At the last meeting exception was taken to the payment of the pre'cept, on the ground that it included 2d for educational purposes, which would not be required in view of the action of the Board of Education postponing the ap- pointed day. At last Friday's meeting, Mr Llewelyn Jones in ithe, chair, the clerk (Mr Grirnslc-y) n .read a letter from 'the Flintshire County Council stating that the Board wouild find on the precept that the rate levied was for general county purposes, and, that the postpone- ment of the appointed day would not in any way modify the requirements of the Council. They also asked that the. precept might be paid before, the end of ilhe year, to enable them to meet their engagements. Air Griffiths But are they going to spend the money they have levied for education purposes for other purposes? The Chairman said that a letter had1 also been; received from the Denbighshire County Council requesting payment of their December precepts, and stating with regard to the precept due oil Iarch i4ih next that they would expect compli- ance with their demand for the full amount un- less it wasi decided to the contrary at the Febru- ary meeting of the Council. The postpone- ment of the "appointed day" did not affect the December pre'-cept, and there was no reason, for delaying the payment of it. The "Chairman said they would be acting* wisely if they paid the call, as they might de- pend upon it that the County Council would not misapply the money. It wasi quite true that in the Flintshire call there was 2d in the pound for educational purposes. But a large portion of that had been already spent on the prelimin- ary, expense of bringing the Act into operation. They could no:[ wait until the 1St of January before making a start, for on that day the origi- nal intention- was to take over the hundred schools in the county. They had to hold several inquiries, and the preliminary work had been, most laborious and expensive. Unnecessary and Illegal. Mr G. F. Gunner contended that if the ap- pointed d'ay was to be postponed from, month to month, as appeared likely, this extra 'twopence would not be necessary, for he understood that it was not intended to meet the expenses of the provided schools, which would not now be taken over. If these schools were not to be taken over on the ISlt of February, he failed to see why the County Council should want the extra twopence, for it wouldi be illegal-to use it for any other pur- pose. There were' a- great- many ratepayers in Rhyl-large ratepayers on the Parade—who could ill-afford to pay tho extra 2d at any time, let alone when it was not required. The Chairman said the question of legality would be considered by the Government auditor of the County Council. The Clerk: It is rather hard on the County -Council if you are going to keep the money from them. The money has to1 be paid in two instal- ments, and there can be no objection to paying the first now. This question should be dis- cussed when the next instalment becomes due. iMt Gunner: But when the money is once paid there will be n0. getting it back, and what are you going to do them* The Chairman If there is a surplus we shall certainly get the benefit of it when the niext half- yearly rate is made. r; Mr Frimston said he wished: to withdraw the opposition he offered at the last meeting. On that occasion he opposed it on the ground thai if ihe Government was going to alter its policy in regard to the Education Act, and not allow the County Council to make use of this money, it was very hard that the ratepayers should be called upon to pay the extra, twopence. They knew very well that once County Councils, local managers, and Boards of Guardians got money in their pockets they spent it for something or other. other. The Chairman That has not been my experi- -ence on the County Council. (Laughter.) Air Frimstonsaidi that was the general ex- perience, and that was why he objected to pay the money at the last -meeting. However, if the y 11 chairman was: prepared to say that they could discuss the question when the next instalment was due, and that in the meantime the County Council would not be allowed to spendi the 'money The Chairman: It will be better tto discuss this again. Mr Morgan: It would be a gross injustice if some of the parishes had to pay the precept and others not. Some, parishes have alreday paid it, and1, '■therefore* for the time being, all should do the. same. Mr Frimston proposed that the precept be paid in full. Mr Morgan seconded. A Scene* Mr J. H. Ellis said that as his conduct at the last meeting was questioned, and as it was stated that his contentions were wrong at every point, he rose to state that the remarks made by the chairman and other members that day fully justified what he stated at the last meeting. The chairman on that occasion went so far as to say that the county [;;¡.te included 2d in the £ for .education purposes. It was simply upon ,that statement f-L..Ihat certain members of the Coard took it for granted that there was an education rate, and were 'therefore going to re- fuse to pay it. He pointed out that it was a very bad. ,example to 'set, and he was now very glad to see th-aic the chairman had cooled down. .The Chairman: Order, order! I must say stil'F that 'Mir Ellis is misleading the Board. What I said about 2d in the £ for education purposes is correct. Mr J. H. Ellis: I do not deny it. I merely say that you said, 'that twopence was for educa- tional purposes. The Chairman I still say so. There is no nece-ssi'ty to pursue the matte,r any further. Mr J. H. Ellis I do not mean to allow you to vote on this matter without giving members an opportunity of expressing their views. You are wanting in courtesy and justice by treating them in the flippant way that you do. I do not think that it conduces id the harmony ot this Board that you should take such an arbi- trary way of putting down members who wish to express their views. The Chairman: It is waste of time. -Mr H. Ellis: If it is waste of time, it is time profitably wasted, if only to call attention to the arbitrary way that you put down members at the last meeting for expressing views ,that you now actually agree with yourself. The Chairman (warmly) I do not know how long you are 'to tolerate this sort of thing. Mr J. II. Ellis: You -said that the views I expressed at the last meeting were wrong, and now you admit that I was absolutely right. I am glad to see you assuming such a reasonable attitude. The Chairman (with much warmth) Here is a gentleman, who comes, here about once in every three or four 'months, and! has. got the cheek to lecture the Board and chairman simply because he does not get his own way. Mr J. H. Ellis It shows your discourtesy all along. The Chairman: You come here to create a scene. Mr J. H. Ellis: No we come here, to correct 3'our views. (.Laughter.) The breeze then subsided. It was resolved to pay the first call, and to request the County Council to state when they issue the next precept what amount of the rate was for county purposes, for immediate educa- tion purposes, and for elementary education purposes. »

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