The Brecon County Times Neath Gazette and General Advertiser for the Counties of Brecon Carmarthen Radnor Monmouth Glamorgan Cardigan Montgomery Hereford

BOROUGH LEET DINNER. The usual dinner given by the outgoing mayor took place on Tuesday evening, at the Castle Hotel. The repast placed on the table was of a very excellent character, and reflected great credit on the management of the hotel. W. de Winton, Esq., presided, supported by Lord Hyde, M.P., Mr. H. P. Price, Mr. Overton, the Rev. J. D. Williams, Dr. Talfoiard Jones, Mr. J. Davies (jeweller), Mr. Jno. Prothero, Mr. Philip Bright, Mr. Larkin (draper), Rev. D. Price, Mr. J. R. Cobb, Mr. Jas. Williams (surgeonj, Mr. Henry de Winton, Mr. David Evans (Bank), Mr. E. A. Wright, Mr. F. Watkins, Mr. J. A. Jebb, Mr. James Hall, Mr. James Morgan (Bank), Mr. T. H. Williams, Mr. W. M. Brien, Mr. W. J. Roberts, Mr. David Jones (draper), Mr. H. C. Rich, Mr. R. Webb (jeweller), Mr, J. Kirk, Mr. D. W. J. Thomas, Mr. J. Lazenby (Gaol), Mr. A. A Walton, Ald. D. Thomas,, Mr. Morris (druggist), Mr. Harold North, Mr. J. Morgan (draper), Mr. J. Tudor, Mr. T. Trew, Mr. L. Jones (Siddons), Mr. W. Evans (grocer), Mr. J. E. Nott, Mr. W. Metcalfe, Mr. R. T. Evans, Mr. Watkin Williams, the Rev. H. Griffiths, Mr. Gabriel Powell, Mr. S. B. Evans (vice-chair), Mr. Morgan (currier), Mr. Walter Jones (druggist), Mr. B. Price (butcher), Mr. T. B. Jones, Mr. T. Games (painter), Mr. W. Williams (surveyor), Rev. H. Price (Llanfrynach), Mr. C. Gibson, Mr. D. Jones (saddler), Mr. Jno. Williams (builder) Mr. Jones (shoemaker), Superintendent Lee, &c. On the removal of the cloth, the chairman gave the usual loyal toasts, which were heartily received. The Chairman next gave the ".Army, Navy, and Volunteers" (Applause.) Sergeant Jas. Morgan briefly responded for the Volunteers. There were ironical calls for Mr. J. Prothero to respond for the navy, and he made a laughable acknowledgment on the part of that force. The Chairman proposed the Queen's representative, the Lord Lieutenant of the county." (Applause.) Mr. David Thomas acknowledged the compliment, and said his lordship was never happier than when amongst them. The Chairman next gave the health of the county mem- ber, the Hon. Godfrey Morgan." (Cheers.) Mr. David Thomas responded, and said they were indebted to him for discharging the duties he undertook as an indi- vidual in the army, oecause he was one of those distinguished persons who rode down the valley of death at Balaklava. Of those who survived on that occasion all were subalterns except Sir George Wombwell and Major Morgan. What he felt to be his duty he did not flinch from. He saw what was his duty upon that occasion, and he did it. (LOlld applause.) The Chairman said,that whether Englishmen or Welshmen, there was a class' of men they all felt were above praise. He alluded to the Bishop and Clergy of the Diocese, and the Ministers of all other denominations, and they would all join in wishing them success in their labours. (Applause.) The Rev. D. Price returned thanks for the Bishop and Clergy, and referred to the vigorous state of health of the former. The Rev. H. Griffiths said he was sorry he was the only representative of all the other religious denominations. He said he believed it was well understood that magistrates found in clergymen and ministers men who were always pre- pared to support and strengthen them in preserving order and advancing the interests of the community at large, (hear, hear,) and they in Brecon would always work together and seek the common object of advancing the glory of God, and pro- moting the good of their fellow men. The speaker then referred to the circumstance that Brecon was not a place distinguished for arts and manufactures, but said it had been signalised more in the way of education than any other respect. There was the ancient college of Trevecca, connected fthe Calvinistic Methodists, a few miles from Brecon; •f e^eiIlorial College lately erected in the town of Brecon ltself; also Christ College; and. he thought they ought to be proud of tne distinction conferred on the town by their erection, the locality being considered suitable for the training of the young. Mr. Griffiths then spoke of his being more particularly connected with the Memorial College, and said he thought they had conferred a benefit on the town in selecting for its site a part upon which was to be built the future Brecon, and having caused both gas and water pipes to be laid down that road. (Hear, hear.) He then alluded to the great want of houses in the neighbourhood, and to the fact that many gentlemen and families would come to reside there, but that they could not find suitable houses. He concluded by con- gratulating the chairman on his re-election as Mayor, which was the highest honour his fellow townsmen could confer upon him, and was a proof that he had discharged the duties of his office with impartiality and fearlessness. (Applause.) The Mayor then called for a bumper toast, and said those who were acquainted with the history of that great country must be aware that as many as Z50 years ago or more it was blessed with a statesman who had been handed down not only as the most honest man of his day, but as the faithful adviser of a sovereign who was reverenced by some as the Martyr King. During the whole of the reign of Charles I. the name of Clarendon was a household word, and so great was the con- fidence he enjoyed, and so highly was he thought of by the sovereign of the realm that in writing to his consort then in France, he alluded to Edward Clarendon or Edward Hyde as the only man in whom he could put his trust. (Applause.) He was also the author of a very valued work The History of the Rebellion," and was also the valued adviser of Charles II. when restored to his crown. In the following reign the same family were high in favour, and during the reign of Queen Anne the whole of the emoluments of that great work, The History of the Rebellion," was laid out by one of his successors in endowing what was termed the Clarendon print- ing press at Oxford, and which resulted in the erection of an extensive museum covering 2\ acres. Coming nearer their own times, members of the family of Clarendon had held distinguished positions; but he could not do more than mention the arduous duties which devolved upon one of the family in conducting the negotiations with their cousins across the Atlantic. He trusted the nobleman on his right, who enjoyed the privilege of a seat in the House of Commons, would emulate the character and high standing of his suc- cessors, who figured so highly in history. (Applause.) He now had much pleasure in proposing the health of Lord Hyde, their borough member. (Much applause.) Lord Hyde was received with much cheering. He said notwithstanding that they had two such important events 1 staring them in the face as the 28th natal day of the Prince of Wales, and the re-election of Mr. William de Winton as Mayor for that borough, they had proposed his health. For that hononr he returned his most grateful and most sincere thanks. The honour done him was twofold. He thanked them for the honour done him in drinking his health, and likewise for the eulogistic and flattering manner in which it had been done. From the applause with which the toast had been greeted, he might say that if all those wishes were fulfilled his life must be prolonged beyond the usual span allotted to man of three score -years and ten. But although the Psalmist said that after that age life was labour and sorrow, he could never be sorrowful, and his labour should be devoted to the good of the borough. (Applause) In returning thanks on an occasion like that one must be to a certain extent egotistical. At the same time when talking of himself the position he occupied enabled him to speak of himself as associated with an interest in all their concerns; for ever since he had first put his footsteps in the borough of Brecon, he had been treated with the utmost kindness and cordiality whether at table or at election. Of the latter matter he would not speak. He trusted however, that the bond of friendship existing between them would become firmer and firmer year after year. He thought it was quite right upon occasions of that sort that politics should be debarred, and it was not his intention therefore to touch upon them. He was happy however, to meet them as it were within the walls of consti- tutionalism, and to find that the two hotels had been blended together in harmonious friendship. (Laughter.) He could only hope that if the constitution of England suffered no more than their constitution would suffer after the excellent repast with which they had been entertained, it would last longer thanMethuselah. (Laughter.) He again thanked them from the bottom of his heart for the hearty and cordial manner in which they had received him upon that and every other occasion. (Loud applause ) The Mayor then referred to the law whi^h necessitated the retiring of four councillors every year, and said on that occa- sion they had some little change, two old members being returned along with two new ones, who supplied the place of two others, who had not sought re-election. It was usual at those meetings to propose the healths of the newly elected councillors, and he therefore proposed the health of Messrs. Bright, Cansick, Overton, and Games. (Applause.) Mr. G. Overton, as the junior present, was called upon to respond. He said he had now thrown upon him the responsibility of a common councillor, but he had scarcely had time yet to understand the duties of his office. As his fellow-townsmen did him the honour of appointing him, he would endeavour to do his duty to the best of his ability. He was as yet not out of his swaddling clothes, but he hoped as he got older he would gain experience. He had for many years, however, held a similar appointment as a local boards- man in the sister town of Merthyr, where they had laid out £80,000 in waterworks,, and E25,000 in drainage, their labours having met with the fullest success. They had reduced the mortality from 31 in 1000 to 21, and had increased the longevity of the inhabitants from 17 to 27. They had had a few difficulties to contend with, but he thought if they could suceeed in saving human life they ought to be happy and proud. He trusted the experience he had had would be of service to them here. He was proud of having the honour done him, and more especially for the kind and generous manner in which it had been done. (ApplauseJ Lord Hyde said some centuries ago an Eastern potentate always had his slave behind his chariot to remind him he was mortal. He wanted to act in that capacity. They all were acquainted with the efficiency, integrity, honesty, and gentle- man-like demeanour of their friend the mayor (applause); and he asked them to drink a bumper to his health. He thought those two letters re," added to election, spoke a good deal. It proved that the manner in which he had filled the office in the past year had been satisfactory to them, and that he would do the same in the future. There were always two sides to a character. He had seen him in his public capacity as mayor, on more than one occasion, and he had also experienced his kindness and hospitality, and he could therefore bear his humble tribute to his excellent qualities in both capacities. He begged to give them the health of the chairman. (Applause.) The Chairman, in replying, said, that when he had the honour that day twelve-months of returning thanks for the toast so kindly proposed on the present occasion by the mem- ber for the borough, he had remarked on the great exertions which had been made by the Town Council to endeavour to make the town what they could wish it to be. They were situated in as picturesque and healthy a position amongst the mountains as it was possible to be; but in order to make it as attractive as it was desired they needed to lay out a sum of money which it was out of their power to do. He was happy to say that during the past year, by the aid of their admirable surveyor, and the energy which had been brought to bear by the different members of the Board, certain sums had been laid out to advantage in the draining and paving. They had only to make the town attractive to open a wide field for speculation amongst builders. A building society had been started some time ago, but owing to some untoward means it had virtually become defunct. A considerable amount of capital had been subscribed by persons interested in the borough, but there was a great difficulty in getting borrowers at a fair rate of interest. He was in hopes some day, however, to see it resuscitated, as there was a great demand for houses of all kinds. The country for miles round was very lovely, well watered, and well covered with wood, and such as to excite a desire in those who passed by to come and live there. He hoped that the population would increase, and that the demand for houses would increase the supply. He now thanked them for the honour they had done him in drinking his health. (Applause.) The Mayor then gave the health of Mr. Powel Price, and the strangers who had honoured them with their presence. (Cheers). Mr. H. P. Price, in responding to the toast, made some facetious observations as to being a "stranger," and then said he would refer to the past, as his presence there, and the hearty reception given to him, recalled to his recollection that time twelve months, when the atmosphere was somewhat clouded, and somewhat warm, and when he found himself uitcler strictest surveillance between two representatives of the military profession, speaking with a degree of restraint which had wholly passed upon that occasion. Clearer times had now arrived, and as their county member had told them, the Liberal lion was lying down with the Conservative lamb. He had been reminded that he was a stranger, but there was, notwithstanding, a mysterious link connecting him with the borough (applause), and he certainly did feel a warm interest in the fortunes and circumstances of that place. (Applause). He hoped on many future occasions to meet them at that table to receive from them the same cordial and friendly re- ception, and that he might always see before him an array of friends, and not a single enemy. (Applause). Lord Hyde next proposed the health of "the Aldermen and Corporation of the borough of Brecon." He said, before that day he was not admitted into the sanctum sanctorum of the Corporation, but being that day near the Town-hall, he was told he might go in. From what he saw upon that occasion he believed the interests of the borough weuld not suffer at the hands of the Corporation. (Hear, hear.) Ald. Thomas, whose name was associated with the toast, observed that the Corporation consisted of some alkalies and some acids, but they seemed to combine without an irruption. He was delighted with the tone of that meeting, and as long as meetings of that sort were conducted in the kmd and hospitable and social manner in which that was, they would learn that they could differ and not disagree. He was much obliged for the kind way in which his health had been proposed. He was pleased that they had now a good water supply, and he was happy to say they did not tax the ratepayers for it. It was cheaper for the cottager to pay his twopence per week than to go to the river and draw water there. The water system also gave them a great advantage in clearing away their sewage and of saving their property in case of fire, and they saw that wherever water had been introduced health had increased. They had the misfortune to start without any capital, and the difficulties they had to contend with were more than anyone could hastily compre- hend. He therefore trusted that the ratepayers would be con- siderate in the way they judged the acts of the Corporatioll. He cordially reciprocated the kind feeling which seemed to stimulate everyone on the present occasion. (Applause.) The Mayor then proposed "Success to the town and trade of Brecon." (Cheers.) Mr. Bright, whose name was associated with the toast, replied at some length, and in the course of his observations he said he had for the last six years paid more attention to corporate matters than he had to his own business, and he was in a position to endorse all Mr. Thomas had said in reference to the advantages of a good water supply, independently of the advantage it had been in saving the property of their neighbours on several occasions lately when fires had occurred. It was true the waterworks had necessitated a much larger outlay than they had at first contem- plated. It was estimated they would cost about E7,000, but they had cost 99,037, and probably would cost F,10,000 altogether. They would be surprised and pleased to learn, however, that, early as it was in the career of the waterworks, the income was now E545 per annum, and it was increasing yearly: and they expected in thirty years the sum borrowed would be entirely repaid, and Brecon in possession of a magnificent water supply, second to none in the kingdom. He was desirous of saying this, that it might be seen although the works had cost more than expected, that they were not utterly ruined in consequence. In concluding his remarks, Mr. Bright returned thanks for the honour done the town and trade, and said he hoped they would always be deserving of the compliment customarily paid them at meetings of that sort. (Cheers.) The Mayor next proposed "The Press," which was acknowledged by the representative of the BRECON COUNIY TIMES, The Mayor said he had now to propose the toast of a fellow townsman, whose talents in his profession were very great-he alluded to their town clerk. (Applause.) He was well known to them all, and he (the chairman) hoped that his health, which suf- fered from pressure of business and other matters, would improve. At any rate they now drank to his "good" health. (Hear, hear.) Mr. S, B. Evans, it appeared, had just left the room. Mr. 1-1. P. Price proposed the health of the ladies, speeially refer- ring to Mrs de Winton, to whom he said they were indebted for the establishment of an annual flower show, and it was but right that they should on every suitable occasion exuress their acknow- ledgments to her. (Applause.) ¡ Lord Hyde suitably responded tothe toast. The proceedings then concluded.

-=-"='= .;o,J'3:i:1:I BRECON BOARD OF GUARDIANS. The usual meeting of the above Board was held at the Town-hall, oa Saturday morning, the Rev. Ghrnons Williams presiding. There were also present A. Doyle, Esq., assistant commissioner John Lloyd, Efq., Henry De Winton, Esq, Lewis Hughes, Esq., James Powell, Esq. the Rev. Bus Price, J. Prothero, Esq., St. Mary; Messrs. F. Watkins, Christ College; T. S. Cornish, Llan- spyddid; the Rev. W. Howell, Llanfihangel- feehan D. Downes, Llanthetty Thomas Smith, St. David Rees Williams, Llanvigan W. Perrott, Llangorse Rev. J.J. Evans, Cantreff; W.Williams, Merthyr Cynog James Probert, St. David William Williams, Llanthew; Morgan Watkins, Trayan- glaes John Jones, Llandefaelog tregraig Thomas Williams, Modrydd; William Phillips, Merthyr Cynog; D. Price, Cray Jjhn Williams, Trallong W. Morgan, Llandefalle; C. Ricketts, Llande- falle; W. Powell, St. John John Powell, Aberxskir Thomas Lewis, Llanfihangel Talyllyn John Davies, Llandefaelog-fach Rev. W. Powell, Llanfihangel- fechan Thomas Williams, Llansaintfread; R. D. Williams, Manest W. Edwards, Vennyfach, &c. THE ELECTION OF A CHAIRMAN. The Clerk having stated it was necessary within one month after a vacancy to proceed to fill it up, some conversation took place in reference to the appointment of a chairman instead of the late Mr. W. Perrott. It was however, thought desirable that the guardians should have notice of the election, and on the motion of Mr. Lewis Hughes, seconded by Mr. F. Watkins, it was resolved that the guar- dians proceed to the election of a chairman that day fortnight, and that notice thereof be given to each of the guardians. It was also decided to elect a second vice-chairman. THE TREAT TO THE INMATES. The Master reported that the Marquis and Marchioness Camden had sent £5 to be expended in giving the inmates of the house a treat, and stated that he bad accordingly given them the treat on Thurs- day last. The guardians expressed their sense of the kindness of the Marquis and Marchioness. CAN A MOTHER FORGET HER SUCKING CHILD ?" The Master reported that, a child, about six weeks old, had been left on the footpath in the Watton, and that the child had been brought by a policeman to the house, where it had since been. P.C. Davies (No. 2) was thencalledinand stated that on that day week he heard of a child being left on the Watton footpath. He ascertained it was taken to the New Inn by a soldier. He saw the child, and reported the ea- e to the superintendent, and after- wards went to Mr. Thomas and the relieving officer. He then went down to Mr. Jayne, the father of the child, who was staying with his mother, &nd asked him if he would take it, and he refused to do so. The child's grandmother (Mrs. Jayne) said the child was put inside the door on the ground, and she took it up and put it on the pavement. A soldier ooming by picked it up and brought it to the New Inn, and his wife suckled it. The Clerk stated that the husband had turned the wife out of doors, and the justices did not see fit to make an order against the husband until a case in the Divorce Court was decided. Even if the guar- dians summoned the father, he did not think the magistrates would make an order on the father for a child born after he had turned his wife out of doors. In reply to the Rev. J. J. Evans, Thp Clerk said the husband was bound to maintain the wife and the child until the divorce case was decided. It was then decided to adjourn the case for a month. APPRENTICING OF BOYS. The Clerk stated he had received two applications for boys as apprentices. After some conversation, it was decided that the clerk ir-form the applicants that <63 and two suits ot clothes would be given with the boys, and that they could have them for a month on trial before they were apprent iced, A LEGAL QUESTION. The Clerk read a letter from the Poor Law Board in reference to an application from the Merthyr Union, to pay a sum of zC3 for medical attendance on a Brecon pauper, named William Jones, who had ¡ met with an accident in the Merthyr Union. The Board expressed the opinion that the claim came under section 2 of the 11th and 12th Vic. 110. This Mr. Thomas stated provided that in the case of a pauper in receipt of relief in one union, meeting with an accident in another union, the expense of medical attendance shall be repaid by the union which re- lieved him. It appeared however, from the statement of some of the guardians that the man in question was living out of the union, which altered the state of things, the Board having a resolution oa their books, not to relieve any pauper living out of the union. The matter of payment was again allowed to stand over for further inquiry. THE TRAINING SHIP. A letter was read by the Clerk from the committee of the Bristol Training Ship, stationed in the channel, which stated that they had not decided on what terms boys might be received from neighbour- ing places. It was intended to put the ship under the Industrial School Act, and no convicted boys would be entered, but voluntaries would be taken on payment of 5s. or 6s. per week, so far as Bristol was concerned. THE ENLARGEMENT OF THE WORKHOUSE. Mr. J. Lloyd had given notice a month ago that he wo.uld move to rescind the resolution come to by the Board for building a separate school for the children. In moving that resolution, he said in order to persuade them to do so he thought it was only necessary for him to read two extracts from the report of the committee. They had already deter- mined-almost unanimously, but certainly by a large majority—that they would not join Crickhowell in building an industrial school. In the first para- graph, to which he wished to call their attention, the committee said that the object of a training school was to train the children so that thpy might become hard working members of society and that in a small establishment, which the separate school necessarily must be, that object would not be obtained unless at a great additional expense, and the children would therefore, as now, be almost useless when sent out as servants, and the great proportion would return to the workhouse to burden the rates for some years longer, their maintenance consuming the greater proportion of the proposed saving." That was pretty strong language. The committee told them that the object in view, that of industrial training, could not be obtained in a small establish- ment. They were, however, not content with that, but added a still stronger paragraph. They said, It must be borne in mind that ina separate establish- ment, at the above estimate, no provision whatever is made for the industrial training of the children, and they will be brought up in the same pitiable state of helplessness as they are at present, unable to follow any useful occupation." That, they were told, would be the result of a separate school. They bad already determined not to have a joint school and clearly it would be a lack of wisdom on their part to lay out £1,500 on a building which would only produce the pitiable results described in that paragraph. That paragraph was written by gentle- men who were anxious to have a training school. They appeared much more anxious to have a joint school than a separate one, and they had heard the strongest possible reasons adduced why they should not have a separate school. Having thus disposed of the training school from the words of the com- mittee, it was but fair that he should express his own opinions as to what the alternative was to be, as they were anxious to give the poor children the best industrial training they could1. It appeared to him that that union was particularly well situated for his purpose. It was in the midst of an agricultural district where labour was very scarce, and many farmers had not the number of hands they ought to have. It therefore afforded them an opportunity of placing out their children with farmers, and giving them a moderate bonus for taking them. They were also within four hours travelling of the training vessel which the Government had placed at the dis- posal of Bristol, and boys could be received on the same terms as the Bristol boys. It was adapted to hold a large number of boys, and they would be received at a cost of 5s. or 6s. per week, which would be the same as they would cost in the private school at home. The other day he had met with some remarks in the Times in reference to the report of Mr. Tufnell, a gentleman who was experienced in Poor Law affairs. The Times said it had not space to analyse the statements of the inspector, but mus summarise it by saying the first discovery of the Poor Law Board was that industrial training was absolutely necessary as a part of their education, and consequently each boy had three days work and three days schooling in the pauper school. After trying every industry they bad arrived at a second discovery, that the worst thing they could do for those bins was to make them shoemakers and tailors, and that thev could not do better than prepare them for the naval, merchant, and military services. The guardians of the Brecon union had these three outlets. They could appren- tice them, send them to a training vessel, or place them with farmers. He gathered that the maximum sum given to apprentice boys was Y,10 for five years apprenticeship, and that sometimes it was as low as X4. That appeared to him to be too low a sum, taking into consideration the advance in the price of labour, in manufacturing produce, and everything connected with agriculture. By giving from Elo to 114 they might induce persons to come and ask them for apprentices, and the guardians would then be at a much less expense than by adopting the proposal of a separate training school. Suppose they gave £ 14 to apprentice a boy for five years, it would only be as much as it would cost them for one year in a training school. He really thought the case was so strong that they ought to try whether th, y could not adopt one of the three modes of placing out the children. The master of the workhouse told him there were at present 10 children in the house between four and eight years of age, and 20 between eight and twelve. Those between four and eight might remain wi. ere they were, and when those between eight and twelve were disposed of they ought to be able to give the others as good an educa- tion as was necessary for them. Their vice-chair- man had sent out a son to be a naval officer, and he hoped he might have under him some of those days some of the boys sent from Brecon. If they found that the system he proposed did not answer, it would be easy for them to retrace their steps, but if they once laid out their money in bricks and mortar the building would remain on their hands, whether it aissv. • cd their purpose or not. He therefore now moved that the resolution be rescinded. Mr. Morgan Watkins (Trayanglaes) seconded the resolution. The Chairman said anything that fell from Mr. Lloyd should be received with the respect which was due to his great talents and his long experience, and in anything he (the chairman) might say he should speak with the gr'atest respect and with great friendship. It. was now about ten months since Mr. Doyle attended from the Poor Law Board and informed them that according to the new rules and regulations the present accommodation of the house was insufficient, ("hear, hear" from Mr. Doyle), and especially that the accommodation for the chil- dren, and their classification, were most insufficient. The bpeaker then referred to the unanimous resolu- tion to build come to at a largely attended and specially called meeting of the guardians, and the subsequent steps of the committee resulting in the report to the guardians, a portion of which Mr. Lloyd bad read, and then the decision of the Board a month ago not to build with Crickhowell. The legitimate conclusion from that was that they decided to build by themselves. Mr Lloyd No, no. The Chairman It left the resolution on the books but Mr. Lloyd gave notice he would move to rescind our unanimously come to resolution, and to-day he has asked that we do not build. Mr. Lloyd An industrial school. The Chairman said Mr. Lloyd went further, and his resolution went to their not building at all. He would not say a word as to the position Mr. Lloyd had assumed. With regard to their own position, howev r, it would be very inconvenient if this were to be drawn into a precedent, and they hereafter appointed a committee on false issues. He thought they would not get gentlemen to act on committees if after they had given their best consideration to a matter, and endeavoured to carry out the intentions of the Board, the Board were to turn round and say they were much obliged, but they t ad changed their minds. Mr. Lloyd My main argument is that the com- mittee recommended the Board not to build an industrial school. The Chairman could not quite understand what Mr. Lloyd desired with regard to the workhouse. He understood Mr. Lloyd wished them not to build at all. Mr. Lloyd Industrial schools. The Chairman: I will sit down at once if Mr. Lloyd admits that we shall build a school. Mr. Lloyd No school at all, more than you have. The Chairman said if they resolved that day not to build they would place themselves at once in antagonism with the Poor-Law Board. They would all admit that Mr. Doyle had acted with the greatest courtesy and forbearance (hear, hear), and had come time after time thinking tne question would be decided, and it was not. Mr. Doyle told them, how- ever, from the Poor-Law Board that they must build, and if they did not consent to it there would be an order from the Poor-Law Board telling them they must do so. If they refused to obey that order, a commissioner would be sent down, who would build for them, and they would get roundly abused in all the newspapers for their pains. The question now of building with Crickhowell was out of their hands, and he regretted it very much. When Crickhowtll found they could not build with Brecon they determined to build for themselves. With regard to the training ship, it did not appear that it was available. Mr. Lloyd: The ship is there. The Chairman But it does not seem at all certain that they can receive boys from our union. Mr. Doyle It is very certain that they cannot. I will explain the reasons presently. The Chairman said that supposing they could send their boys to the ships they could not send them till they were useful, and they got rid of them now when they were useful. Boys of twelve years old were sent away to farm-houses, or apprenticed. What they wanted was to find out what they should do with the children from four to twelve years of age. If they sent them to the training ship, they would cost from 5s. to 6s. per week, while in the house they cost from 2s. to 3s. per week. Mr. Lloyd also advocated sending the children to farm-houses. He would ask the farmers present whether they would receive children from four to twelve years of age. Mr. Lloyd Not so early as four. The Chairman Then you will have to maintain them in the house, and pay a master and mistress, as well as pay for a lot of children out. Supposing they had 40 children out, and they cost them 2s. more each than in the house, that would be 1208 a year more than if they were in the house. If they built at a cost of £ 1,000, it would take them 30 years to pay off the interest and capital at X-50 a year. Here would be £ 208 against £ 50. He thought Mr. Lloyd's scheme a most extravagant one, and if the Board consented to rescind the resolution, as Mr. Lloyd asked them, they would utterly stuhify them- selves. Mr. Morgan Watkins Can the Poor Law Board compel us to build an industrial training school? The Chaiiman did not understand that they were considering building an industrial training school. He did not think that by themselves they would be justified in building an industrial school. Mr. Doyle said the Poor-Law Board had no inten- tion to compel them to build an industrial school they had not the power to do so. Even if they had, the reasons against doing so for so small a union were so strong that he did not think the Poor Law Board would be willing to exercise it. He asked the guardians to consider this matter fairly and dis- passionately. When he visited the workhouse he was much struck with the insufficiency of the accom- modation. With two or three exceptions he did not know any workhouse in which the classification was so defective, on account of the arrangement of the building. Portions of it also were so overcrowded that the Poor-Law Board would have interfered at once if he had not said that the guardians had the matter under their consideration. The committee appointed to consider the matter came to the resolu- tion that the best way to provide additional accom- modation was by building with Crickhowell, but on Mr. Lloyd's rec°mmendation, a month ago that proposal was overthrown. He must say he thought it was hardly what was due to that Board for Mr. Lloyd to come there and ask them to reject a pro- posal of that sort upon some loose information he had gathered ia the papers, without giving himself the slightest trouble to ascertain whether what he assumed to be a fact was a fact or not. Mr. Lloyd had said there was a training ship for the reception of children, and he (Mr. Doyle) took it for granted it was so. H(I, however, did what Mr. Lloyd might have done. The Admiralty were very civil people, and if he had written to the Lords of the Admiralty Mr. Lloyd would have been informed that they had lent the Formidable to a charitable association in Bristol, who were in hopes to make it a certified school for that city. Mr. Lloyd's ship, therefore, for all practicable purposes, so far as they were con- .cerned, mi^ht as well be at "David Jones's locker." (Laughter.) The law prohibited them from paying onn shilling mo-e for 'heir children in a certified school than they cost in the workhouse and any man who had examined into the question might have ascertained that fact. The ship was therefore gone to the bottom with all hands. Then as to the farming of the children. The whole scheme was to get rid of the school in the workhouse. Mr. Lloyd I do not wish to get rid of the younger children. You ought not to expose me in this way. Mr. Doyle continued by asking what was the effect of the boarding out system ? It had been adopted in eleven places in England, and what had been the effect in reference to their schools. The Eaton union commenced it, and sent their children to the district school, but they failed of their object, and they took them back again to the workhouse. They then adopted the boarding out system, and tried it for three months but they were compelled from the necessities of the case to appoint a schoolmistress, and have a school in the workhouse, and the Eaton union, with a population of 22,000. had a school of 36 children. Bath, Evesham, Dartford, and other places, were also mentioned to show that where the boarding out system was adopted it was necessary also to have a school and pay teachers, Mr. Doyle arguing from these that Brecon would have to do the same. He hoped the guardians would think twice before adopting the boarding out system. It was an old friend with a new face, and it was well to call it by its proper name of out-door pauperism. How could they board out the bastard child of a woman who came to seek relief ? If they relieved the mother in the workhouse, they must the child also and they would be obliged to give her out-door relief in order to board out the child. They had a badly managed workhouse from the necessities of the case. It was impossible for anyone to exercise that supervision they ought to over the inmates and it could not be taken as a test of destitution. Let them consider for a moment what, the effect was in unions in which they had workhouses that could be used as tests of destitution. There was in that union a pc pulation of 17,000, and out of every hundred there were rather more than six paupers. In the Stowe union, where they bad a good workhouse, the number was less than 2t per cent. at Cheadle 2 and seven- temhs at Atcham a little more than It per cent; in Seisdon 3J percent.; and Bridgnorth 4 per cent. There was no other reason for these places being lower than because they had a well managed work- house. Then look at the expenditure. At Stone, with a population of 21,926, it was X2,476 a year; at Cheadle, with a population of 20,907, it was £2,554 at Atcham, with 19,452, it was zC2,175 at Seisdon, with a population of 15,871, it was Y,1,893 at Bridgnorth, with 15,866, it was Y,3,152, wliile at Brecon with a population of 17,279, it was no less than £ 5,198. He bad taken those places merely because they had well managed workhouses and he asked them to bear that in mind, that they spent -25,200 a year for the relief of the poor. ivr* ^ownes • Does that include the county rate? i rj ?°-^e yephed that the county rate was not included in either case; he had taken the same items in all the cases. There was however, another fact in connection with those places, which appeared to him to clench the argument. The number of in- door paupers in the Brecon union was 108, and the outdoor 951, the result was that they paid for indoor paupers £784, and for outdoor £ 4,413. At Stone they had 114 indoor and 406 outdoor paupers, and the cost was X963 and X1513. At Cheadle there were 90 indoor and 477 outdoor paupers, the cost being X652 and X1901. At Atcham half the pau- pers were relieved out, there being only 155 outdoor and 156 indoor paupers, the cost of the latter being £1500, and of the former X657, the total being rather less than half what the outdoor relief cost to the Brecon union, while the population of Atcham was 2,000 more than that of Brecon union. Mr. Lloyd What does the Builth union pay? Mr. Doyle said the next to a badly conducted workhouse was none at all, and he dared say that it contrasted favourably with this union, because Builth had no union at all. If they felt the pressure of the rates and the pressure of pauperism, the one remedy was to have a good workhouse well adminis- tered. They had at Brecon miserable accommoda- tion, and they had to pay twice over what the workhouse would cost in additional rates. He used the word in no offensive sense, but they must provide additional workhouse accommodation. It was material in their own interests, and also by the obligation of the law. He agreed with the com- mittee that it would be best done by separating the children wholly and completely from the adults in a school distinct from the other building, but if they did not agree with that it could not be forced upon them. They had a choice of two ways of doing ito and they could elect to do that which they thought proper. Mr. J. Lloyd said at the last meeting Mr. Doyle only knew of three unions in which the boarding out system was tried now he had found out there were eleven, and perhaps by next month he would find out there were many more. (Laughter.) Air- Doyle however, had said nothing about Scotland, and that system was adopted throughout that country- As to the unions ciud by Mr. Doyle, if the plan could be worked with 190 children to provide for, why could it not be worked wiih only 30 and there was every reason to believe it would succeed with them. They were then told that they would save their pockets very materially by enlarging the workhouse. He (Mr. Lloyd) was not sorry there were a great number of their paupers outside the house but Mr. Doyle wanted to diminish them, and have more in the house. He thought that was con- trary to the feeling of the day, and the feeling was that the number cf indoor paupers should be less. He was of opinion he had made out a case, and there was nothing he had heard that day told in favour of enlarging the workhouse, except the diminishing the number of outdoor paupers, which he totally dis- agreed with. Mr. Doyle, in reply to a remark of Mr. Lloyd, said he had been taken by surprise at the proposal to board out children. He knew very little of the system, but Mr. Lloyd knew nothing at all. (Laugh- ter.) He therefore took the trouble to ascertain what Mr. Lloyd could have, but did not. He had expected Mr. Lloyd would have called to mind the fact that there was no training ships for girls, and industrial training for girls was one of the most important parts of the administration of the workhouse. That entered ido the scheme of a training school, but It did not at all into that of Mr. Lloyd. Mr. Downes said it was most unfortunate that they were not told at the time of building the infirmary that an aarhtlon to the workhouse must be built, as it could have been done at the same time. (Heat, fi i ft were told that they must build, and he would therefore now move as an amendment to Mr. Lloyd's proposition that they build an addition to the workhouse, and that a committee be appointed to consider the best means of doing so. Mr. Doyle suggested whether Mr. Lloyd would not give his asseot to the proposition that the accommo- dation of the house must be enlarged. That would leave the question open as to how it was to be done. After some further discussion, Mr. PhilliP-1 seconded Mr. Downes' proposition. The Rev. H. Howells and Mr. Phillips having made one or two observations, the amendment of Mr. Downes was put to the meeting, and 27 voted for it, and only two or three against1 it. It wa-* accord- ingly carried. Mr. Doyle said some of the country guardians were afraid of lavish expenditure, but he should enter into tlio consideration of the question with the committee with the fullest intention of not spending a shilling more than could fairly be avoided. (Applause.) He regretted the decision which waS come to a month ago, because he believed that would have been the more economical plan. They would now, however, try to do the best they could. A committee was then appointed to consider the best means of increasing the workhouse accommo- dation it being understood, however, that any member of the Board could attend the meetings of the committee. It was also decided that Mr. Wil- liams, Llanvaes, should be the architect for the alterations. This concluded the public business, and the relief was then proceeded with. 'IDI Printed (by steam power) and publislwd for the Proprie- tors by WILLIAM HENRY CLABK, at t ie Brecon County Times" OJfice, Sigh-street, in the chapelry of Mdry and borouqh of Brecon.—SATURDAY, NOV. 13, 1869.