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DENBIGHSHIRE STANDING JOINT…

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DENBIGHSHIRE STANDING JOINT COMMITTEE. 1 RESIGNATION OF LLANRWST POLICE INSPECTOR. INCREASE OF SALARY FOR THE CHIEF-CONSTABLE. JQIYELY DISCUSSIONS AT WREXHAM. (From Our Own Reporter.) The quarterly meeting of the I)enbighshire Standing Joint Committee was held at Wrex- Lain, on Friday. Mr James Darlingwn pre- sided, and there were also present Colonel Mesh am, Colonel Wynne Edwards, General the Hon. Sir Savage Mostyn, Captain (.,("e, Mr Jelf Petit, Mr G. II. F. Robertson, Mr iW. Gregion Ellis, Mr Godfrey Fitzhu:j;h. Mr C. II lAjntoa, Mr C. B. JoyiDs Mortimer, Mr it obex t Ellis, Mr John Allen, Mr Aneurin O. Evans, Mr Christmas Jones, Mr Gomer :&0- iwrts, Mr Boaz Jones, Mr John Roberts, Mr Jos.' W i-l-eoxoii, and Mr Simou J OIKS, with the (Clerk (Mr W. E. Evans), the Deputy-Clerk ^Mr John Roberts;, ihe County Architect (Mr :\V. D. Wiles), the County Treasurer (Mr Guy Co&ran), the County Accountant (Mr K. Humjxhi'ey R-obsrts), and the Chief-Constable ((Major Leadbettei). A LATE START. The meeting was announced to commence at 11.UO a.m. I ifteen minutes after that hour, .Mr Aneurin O. Evans, who, with one or two of the County Council representatives were the only members present, asked the Clerk Whether there was any special reason why they should be kept for a quarter of an hour d.oil! <r nothing? Was the Chairman of the Pommittee anywhere about the buildings? The Clerk So far as I am aware, he is. At least, he was a few minutes ago. Mr Aneurin O. Evans: For my part, I ob- ject- to king kept here waiting like this. is absolutely no sense in it. The Clerk: If there were a quorum present We could of course proocod. Mr Evans: I quite understand that—this is through no fault of yours. Five minutes later, the Chairman and the other members entered the room. On taking the chair, Mr Darlington said: I must apologise for being late. 1 had asked all the members of the committee to meet me privately for a few minutes before this meet- ing, and I am sorry it was not convenient for GYcxvbodv to accept that invitation. 'W.IiEA.iiAM MAIN ROAD IMPROVE- MENT. The Clerk read a letter from the Main Hoads Committee for the eastern district seeking the committee's oonsant to give up a ,Del-Lain part of the ground in front of the County Buildings, at Wrexham, for the pur- pose of widening the thoroughfare. The Wrexham Corporation Lad undertaken to ilelp the scheme in a certain direction. Trie Chairman said the County Architect caw no objection to the applicaticn provided the widening were continued to a certain point down the street. Mr John Allen said the proposed improve- tnent was a most desirable one, because when a motor-car and a tramcar passed one another at that point, the thorougnfare was practic- ally blocked up. lie moved that the request PC granted. Ma- Simon Jones seconded. At the suggestion of the Clerk, it was de- cided to suspend the Standing Orders. Mr Gomer Roberts urged that a condition be imposed to the effect that the land was giv-en provided the owners of the ad"olnllng property surrendered theirs on reasonable tznoR, so that the whole length suggested by iMr Wiles 00 widened. It would be useless "widening one part of the road, and leave the other, and if the committee granted the request unconditionally they would place in the hands of the adjoining owners a lever by ,M-eans of which they would be able to force mp the price of their property, whereas if the .condition were insisted upon the lever would ibe in the hands of the public authorities. After some discussion, however, the request "was provisionally agreed to. DECREASE OF* INDICTABLE OFFENCES. A QUIET EISTEDDFOD. The Chief-Constable (Major Lead better) re- ported that crime and ofTeneos, as compared With the corresponding quarter, showed a ^decrease of six in indictable offences, and all increase -of 28 in non-indictable offences. One Srundrod and hfty-hve persons were proceeded •against for drunkenness, 25 of whom were for ing drunk on Sundays, as against 148 and 22 in the corresponding quarter of last year. l'ive publicans were proceeded against—two fox permitting drunkenness (one of those being fined and the other bound over), and three for keeping gpon their licensed pre- mises during prohibited hours (one of these being fined and two discharged).. In the •corresponding quarter of last year, only one ?"arson was proceeded against and fined. 5,183 tramps were relieved during the year, be.m g a d-e-croaoc of 1074. There was a great influx of strangers into Colwyn Bay during the holding there of the Rational Eisteddfod in SeptenibSr, and he H as glad to say that all passed off without the slightest complaint or report of pro- perty stolen. COLWYN BAY COUNTY COURT AND BUILDINGS. Mr Jelf Petit, on behalf of the local sub- committee, pre-sented a report upon the re- sult of the experiment carried out with the object of improving the acoustic properties of the Colwyn Bay County Buildings, and re- imarked that though the committee felt they could have done a little better if a. larger allowance of money for the work had been granted them, the fixing of curtains, etc., had effected a considerable improvement. The Clerk reported that certain correspon- dence had taken place between himself and the Registrar of the County Court for the district (Mr R. S. Chamberlain), relative to the use of the Colwyn Bay County Buildings for County Court purpose's on September 29th last, when it was intended to hold a special silting at Colwyn Bay. He had sanc- tioned the use of the building on the occa- sion, but the Court was not held after all. The action of the Qerk was approved. liLANRWST INSPECTOR'S RETIREMENT. AN ANIMATED DISCUSSION. Inspector Wyse, of Llanrwst, applied for permission to retire Oil pension, and the Chief-Constable's orrtificate was submitted to the effect that the Inspector had •'completed 28 one-sixth years' approved service, that he ad served within more t-ILail one rank within £ he last three years, his average pay for that period being ii95 183 4d, and that he is en- titled to two-thirds of that amount, namely, Ib3 lOd per annum as superannuation. Mr Aneurin Evans: Why is this man retir- ing? Mr Petit: Is this in order? The Chairman It is a matter for th.e Chief- onstabe. Mx Evans: Surely it is in order to ask the ff hief-(> ais t a bio why this man is retiring 3 The f■^air-man But it is a matter for the ChIef-II, 4il1st.able entirely as to the discipline of thr. Mr llns: Is Inspector Wyse here? The Chairman Yes. 01 Mr Evans: Why not hear from him why he as retiring? Mr Petit: I ask for your ruling, Mr Cliair- mian, upon the point of order. i hi vans said that if he was not going to we avowed to put his question in that form, he w;uJd put it in another. He was at L].m- Twst, on Wednesday of last week, and w.as different persons, among whom were ioc# magistrates, that Inspector Wyse was -tore<5tf to Tetire. He did not know whether at was a fact, and was glad to see Inspector Wyae. present, so that they could hear the truth from him. He recollected that wilen Inspector Wyse moo-e an application for a 4K>n-pons ion able allowance at Denbigh, about •eighteen months ago, the Chief-Constable did aot support the application. He (the speaker) *T »<>t know whether that had anything to «o tin? retirement. Colon* Wjnne Edwards: Is it in oider to discuss 'vhy Inspector WYBle has sent in his resignation ? Mr Oh yes, some people would like to •uppreas ot stifle this matter, J have no doubt About that. Two or three members rose to speak at this point. Mr Evans: May I proceed, Mr Chairman. The Chairman consulted t.he Clerk upon the point of order, the latter eta ting that the com- I mittee had no discretion as to refusing a pension to which an officer was entitled, provided he did not wish to withdraw his application. They would then.consider whether porm &sion to with- draw should bo given as had been dons on a previous occasion. Mr A. O. Evans, continuing, said a sub-oom- mittee whidh die&lt- w.th the question of non- penswnablQ allowances passed aivhl h was oi Tw, bemeiit to Insixjcbor Wyse. If it had been .a benetit they could have retained the tcr- vices of one. of the best and iiiost satisfactory police in-spectoj-s in the force, and the county wow Id have been saved a considerable sum oi money. The laot was that Inspector W y in- curred the displeasure of the Chief Constable in ma.king application, contrary to li..s wish, for a non-pens.onable allowance, 'linings had not been going on very smoothly in Lianrvvst sinos then, and iie believed that Wu" resignation had been forced upon the inspector, w¡;o did not really w.sh to retire, but, having incurred the Chief Constable's displeasure, he had no option. Tj.e Chairman (Mr James Darlington): I t'hink you must be out of order in making this statement. Mr Evans: I am asking for information. Surely I am entitled to ask for information, ixom the Chief Corn-stable The Chairman L You are dealing with matters of d.soipiine, and you are makmg a statement with regard to what the Chief Uoiuitablc's duties are wit-ii to it, and I think that will be out of order. Mr Evans saidi he was quite aware that the con1:u0t oi the police was absolutely in the halHl" of the Chief Constable, and that tiicy as a com- mittee were simply anù nominally there to super- vise what he did. But so long as the inspector was a satisfactory oiiioer of the force, when a- rriomber of the Standing Joint Committee was told that the resignation had been forced upon him, surely that member was entitled to ask whether there had beoa friction between this inspector and lh) Chief Constable, wir t was the causa of that friction, and whether the Chief Constable was justified in getting this man to retire. Tkey all know that this man had years of serviod still at his back, and he could not be more than fifty-one years of age. To rowove him now would mean an additional expen-se to t-ii-j ratepayers of £120 per annum. Was it not, therefore, worlh thair while to re-talyi his Ser- vices and save the rates oi the County? The Chairman: 1 am advised you have no right to ask the question. It .is a. matter oi discipline entirely and solely in the hands of the Chief Const-able, and I rule that the question you are now asking afTeots the discipline of the force and .is out oi order. Mr Evans repeated that Inspector Wyse was a comparatively young man, and urged that there "rrrut bo something bsnind ail this." According to what ho had been told this ohicer b 'hd also incurred the dis-pleasurc of some o* the mem bona cf the bsnah at Llanrwst. It was decided to aceopt the r:\s.gna t on, seve- ral of the County Council representatives not voting. InsiHX-for Wyse then stated that if he were called upon to retire withn the next four months he would not bo entitled to two-thirds of his pre- sent salary, lie was not aware of that fact witaa he sent in his notice and ho asked the committee to extend the period of service bll February lsi, next. The difference would mean a loss oi about £3 per annum in his pension. Mr Simon Jones moved that the officer remain in the sorvi-ce for four months longer. The Chief Constable etatetf that he had no animosity c-gainst Inspector Wyse. On the con- trary he was do;ng' h.s be-st to get t'he officer an appointment and! he (the speaker) had letters in his favour which he. had shown the Inspector. He had no wiih at all to do him any injury- Mr Aneurin Evans: Is th's in order? The Chairman I have .a::5>ked fee Chief Can- stable to speak with rogard to this matter and he is doing so. lIe is giv.ng his reasons why ho has no objections to this ÜZruI so. Mr Evans He is going' beyond that. The Chairman: I that ho is not. The Chief Constable: I must maintain the <lociplin00 of the force. Mr Gregson Ellis socc-nded! Mr Simon Jones' motion wihich was then agreed boo COLWYN BAY AMBULANCE SHELTER. The Chief Constable apjMied' for the commit- tee's sanction to the building by tlhe Colwyn Bay Council an their own expsmae of a receptacle at the Colwyn Bay County Buildings for a wheel ambulance. On the motion, of Mr Gregson Ellis, seconded by Ooi. Wynne Edwards, Lhe matter was left in the hands of the local committee to report upon at a later date. CHIEF CONSTABLE'S SALARY. MR A. O. EVANS PROTESTS AGAINST AN INCREASE. Mr Jelf Petitf had given no-tiee that he would move "that the Cniet Constable's salary bo in- creased in recegnil.on of his long, service." The motion was now put by Col. Mesham, who pointed out that Major Leadbetter had served the county for 32 years, "and we all agree. said Col. Mesham, "that he has done his duty most efficiently during' the whole of that time." Major Loadbetter could have retired on pension several years ago, but by remaining in the force lie had saveod the county £ 266 a year for some time. lIe was justly entitled! to an increase of £ 50 per annum in his salary and he moved that that be allowed him, feeling certain that all would agree with him that the Chief (Jonstable had rendered them most excellent service for 32 years. Mr Jelf-JVr.it seeonded. v Mr Boaz Jones: May I ask what is the age of the Chief Constable? The ago oi the other polioo officers is stated. The Chairman I don't know his age, but I understand that if he remains it will be a con- siderable saving to the county. Mr A. O. Evans said: lie had received a notice .to atiend1 what he cabled a. ca-uous meeting of the committee, to bo held, a few minutes Ijeforo the quarterly meeting, with reference to this sub- ject, and in this letter, whidh was signed by the chairman, it was suggested that the members should confer in private in the hope that the whole of the committee could be induced to agree to the increase of the salary. He failed to see why a matter of such importance should be discussed in private. If tho Chief Constable de- sired this increase, he would bo the first man to show cause why he was entitled to it. The only reason advanced by Colonel Medham was that the Chief Constable had been many years in the service. Other people who had .been years in the service ha.d been asked to retire- because they had been many years in the service, and because t;iioy lhzd impeded progress in the force by way of promotion of other people. Superin- tendent Jones was asked to retire because he had been long enough in the force and impeded the advancement of others. Why should he. be asked to retire regardless of his private feelings? Was it mot time for the Chief Constable to retire for the same ? lie should have thought some persons would have known that their 0 services were not so aooeptablet as they used to be, and, having received this hint, would have gracefully handed in their resignation. Instead of that, it was proposed to inorcasa the Chief Constable's salary. They were told that by reason of S'le Chief Constable's not availing himself of his right to retire on a pension, the county had been saved so muoh money. Could it not. be equally so with rogard to Superintendent Jones and Inspector Wya., ? Was this the genuine reason for an increase, namely, that thev ought to recog- nise the Chief Constable's service? He ventured to say it was not. He objected to this increase and to this private meeting. Mr Gomer Roberts said that in reference to the meeting held five or ten minutes before that meeting, he attended! it with a purpose namely t'o. ask Col. M'ssham to withdraw his mot ion, and lie did the same thing* now publicly. lie had giveTI his reasons at the previous meeting, and whether it would b3 wisal for Ihiin to give them again he was net, quite certain. Mr An-eurin Evans: If it is not betraying oon fidence. The Chairman: You should not make thene remarks, Mr Evans. If Mr Gomer Roberts de- cides it is not desirable he should be allowed to have his own way. Mr Gomer Roberts proceeded to stay it was quite evident that that matter did not Jio qu to ensy in the minds of the whole com mittee. If it went to a vote the motion would be carried he felt, sure, but he felt sure also that the m m- bera of quarter sessions had no wish to c-irry through anything. cspeeially a matter of that kind, against the wishes of the who'e Committee. It had been pointed out. that the application did not. corrv> from the Chief Constable himself. That, was quite true, and if the motion were now passed bv a majority only it would hava no weight; it would net be altogether satisfactory to tlhe Chief Constable the Committee were unanimous in their decision. IT-e therefore appealed again to Col. Mesham and his seconder net to press the motion to a division. Though tilie County Council had no legal right to question t.he proceedings of the committee they had a moral r ght to judge them. Col. Mesham was proceeding to rt-pla to the disoussion when Ths Chairman intervened, saying the, mover would have his opportunity to speak a^tor thcj other members had finished what they had to .1 j No other obsefvatons forthcoming, however, NOT A CAUCUS MEETING. Colonol 'Mtesham y-aplied, and said 9ie strongly objected, and felt they must also object to the word "caucus," used by Mr Evans (hear, hear). He always understood that a caucus meeting was a hole and corner meeting, held by one section or party. In that instance, however, they had be-en in- vited to a friendly meeting of all members of the committee to discuss that question in order to see whether they were unanimous upon it or not; in other words, to test the feeling of the whole committee upon the sub- ject (hear, hear). He, therefore, strongly objected to the use of the woad by Mr Evans they had had no "caucus" meeting, but a friendly meeting of the members of the com- mittee. The reporters would have had plenty of opportunities in the subsequent meeting to hear their different views upon the matter. "1 must protest, said Colonel Mesham, in conclusion, because that is not an expression that should hav.e been used in this committee" (hear, hear). Mr Aneurin Evans: It was more than jus- tified, si.r. Colonel Mesham: It was not justified at alL The motion was then put to tho meeting, and the Clerk declared that eleven had voted in its favour. Mr John Roberts (Henilan): All Quarter Sessions members, if 1 may so observe. Tbo Clerk: And there arc nine against it. Colonel Wynne Edwards: It shows that the Quarter 'Sessions members are more a'ale in discharging their duties than the oth&rs. SUGGiiiSiED "OFFICIAL" SOLICITORS. In accordance with. notice, Mr Jelf Petit then moved that the committee appoint solicitors to conduct Polioe Court proceedings on behalf of the police. The mover said he did not want to go into details, but ho be- lieved from his own experience that certain delays which at present occurred in eonn-ec- tion with the conduct of that work wouLd not be experienced if they had officially- appointed solicitors. The change he advo- cated had been brought about in most coun- ties where the question of fees was left in the hands of the Caerk. In Carnarvonshire, however, each divisional solicitor had a mini- mum fee of one guinea for each ease, and a maximum of three guineas where there were several cases to deal with. In re pi y to tiht Chairman, Mr Joif Petit said the justices would have I their own option to increase the fees, if necessary. I Mr Gregson Ellis seconded. Replying to Mr Boaz Jones, fix Jell Petit said his view was that the committee should keep the power in their own hands. At present, they had to be content with signing requisitions only; they had: I no say 111 fixing the foes nor the appoint- ment of the solicitors, because the poxioe en- gaged the solicitors themselves. Mr Aneurin Evans said there were occa- sions when it might net be desirable for the person acting for the police to prosecute. Mr Boaz Jones remarked that in his ex- perience there had been no case of complaint against the existing system. JYlJr Christmas Jones: If there is no objec- tion to the present mode, why alter it? Mr Aneurin Evans said he believed the present mode was much the more desirable. A solicitor might have a client of his own, whom he does not desire to prosecute, and if he were the official solicitor, he would not be the best mall to prosecute in sucli a case. It was better to leave the police to engage whom they pleased, because th.cy knew better than anyone who would be tho better person to act. If the change were made, he took it that a. solicitor would be appointed for each police division in the county, and that would not be always desirable, it might be desirable, for instance, that a solicitor from the Colwyn Bay Division should prosecute in the Ruthin Division, and vice versa. He proposed, to vote against the motion. T he Chairman Will the cost be more 01' ic!.Ss? The Chief-Constable explained that during the last official year the costs incurred upon solicitors acting for tltDpolioc amounted to ili.7. Mr Christmas Jones: As a rule we ratify the views of the police in this matter. What are t, h-e views-of the Chief-Constable upon the matter? Mr Jelf Petit said he would be perfectly agreeable to .abide by the voice of the Chief- Constable. Mr Aneurin Evans: Has the Chief-Con- stable been consulted by anyone in regard to this matter? The Chief-Con stable replied that Mr Petit had remarked to him that he would like the change, but so far as he was concerned he thought the present system worked well enough, and there was a danger in the direc- tion indicated by Mr Evans. Mr Jelf Petit: Well, I am perfectly will- ing to withdraw the motion, .a.ud leave the matter in the hands of the Chief-Con- stable. The discussion, thereupon, dropped. INCREASE OF THE FOIiCE. Home Secretary wr-oto sanctioning the increase of the police force in the county by two oonstables. v POLICE WEEKLY REST DAY. The Clerk reported th.e receipt of a copy of the Act intended to facilitate the grant to members of the constabulary of one day's rest off duty in every seven*, and pointed out that one section provides that it "shall not come into force as respects any police autho- rity until such date not less than four years after tho passing of the Act, us may be fixed by order in Council." In answer to a question. The Chief-Constable said the innovation would mean increasing the force. Mir Boaz Jones: We all get a rest on the Sabbath D.iv. Are the police expected to be on duty all day on Sunday? Do you re- commend them to attend Divine worship? The Chief-Constable replied that Sunday was one of the hardest days of the week very frequently, especially now. when so many motor-cars wlerle in use on that day. Tire question was referred to committee for consideration. A SOCIAL CLUB. A complaint was read from the Stansty Parish Council with reference to a Social Club in their district, which the Council con- sidered a menace to the peace and morals of the neighbourhood. The Cliief-Constable said the police had no complaints against this club. There was no doubt a great deal of drink was consumed in this and other clubs, but the polioo were a.l- most powerless in the matter. It was resolved that the Clork should reply to the Stansty Parish Council that the atten- tion of the police would be drawn to the mat- ter, and th-ey would do what they could.

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