The Welsh Coast Pioneer and Review for North Cambria

FUTURE OF LLYSFAEN AND MAENAN. CLOSE OF THE LOCAL GOVERN- MENT BOARD INQUIRY. PARISH COUNCILS AGAINST A CHANGE. HICHLY INTERESTING EVIDENCE. TWO MORE DAYS OF SOLID WORK. The Local GoTerninont Board inquiry com- menced at Cohvyn Bay yewterd&y (Wednesday) week, as reported in our last issue, concerning the application of tho l>en.bi-guKb:re Council for the transfer of the parishce of Llysfaen and Maemon, and a part of tlhe township of Abbey from to tihe easicra county was rtttumod on Friday, ooauciiKling at 6;X o'cled, on Saturday evCTtung after tliroe fuN days. Sir Fredoriok Low, K.C., M.P., and Mr Eltia Jones Griffith. M.P. (instructed by Messrs W. R. Evens and Jooes. RmtJiin) appeared again ior the Derabrgishire Oouncsl; Mr James A m^iWett, C'ohvyin Bay, for titio Golwyn Bay Urban, District) Co'unjciJ, in support of the app h- cationt; Mr E.mest Poltoc-k. K.C., M-P., and Mr T- E. Morris tinetructcd by Mr J. T. Kobeo-ts, Carna,rvon') for the (Jaj-nar\oiishiro C'ouncii, in opposition to the appJacatiom; Mr Evan R, Davies oif Pwiliheli for tilic Lljeiaen and Macrnji Parish Councils; and Mr Davie<j Jonce, Llamrwst, for the Geirionydd Rural Distnot Go unco], also in oppositiicmi. CHAIRMAN OF THE EDUCATION COM. MTITEE. On Friday morn.im.g", whon tibe inquiry relating to Ll'ytsfaian was reftu m-ed. tlhe proceedings corri- mcaijccd at 9-30, The Rev. John Edwards, chairman of tlhe Cohvyn, Bay and District Education Committee, boiug the first witness oaJiIod» Mr Edwardt; said' he had resided in OohVYJI Bay for between 22 and 23 years, and had acted as member and cthainnaji of tie old local Schccd Board. The existing llkiueaiion C'oinmitteie held jurisdiction ovor wlwyn Bay, Atergele>, aaid the Bettws dis- tricts, whioh completely surrounded lylysfae-n parjah wlhidh lay like, an island in the middle of tho eohocd district. There waa only one non- provided school in Liys'fcen parish, and that was of COUJBO, undor the supéorvlNÎon of the Camar- von«hjro Education Committer. The Dcsnbigih- shi-re Cornrrnttoo íhMl: two (one Council and one N.P.) at Old Colwyn one at Llanolian aad aai- cthea- at Llianddulas and dhaMren from Lhnafaeai attended all of litem, wlhilst that m Llysfaen served' no parish onjtside Liysfaem itself- In the Old Codfwyn Counoil School the number of ehil- on the books was 309-193 Denbighshire oliiddireii, and 116 from Llysifaen (Cariiarvou- ahii-e). In Old llirw-YTI N.P. School the total was 148-98 DetnbTg-hshire, and 50 Llysfaen. At the Colwyn Bay Higher Grade Sclhool riiene was a totaJi of 160 sabolaa^—143 Denbighshire ehitldreaa and 17 from LlysfaorL At LLanedian the tolai was 66—49 Denhi.g<bslriro, and 17 IJysfacn. The whole tctal&d' ó63 ohildITn-483 Denbighshire ohildrcait a.nd 200 Llytjfacn, or Carnarvonshire <fh:id^ren- He not know the iwimlxsr on tlho books at the Llaaiddjulas gchool, but there were <3wre aiso 49 LlvEfa-r-n ohildT-en. making a grand tOta4 of 249 1 Jlysiaan ohildren attending Denbigh- Bhine sdhoofe. parish was at A DISADVANTAGE EDUCATIONALLY inasmuch as tihecre wore two authoritiea kioking after the children, Iiis committee di<.1 not deal directly with Llysifaem diildien, but the Denbig'lv ahire Attendameo Officer, who lived at Odd Col- wJTh ooirarrumoated in CJØ of non-attendances with the CarniarvoTiKhi.ne officer, who lived at IJandudnos tlhe latter coinnvunic-iring witlh the offending pareastB. Wheti OUT attefndariop, officer visits Llysfaen, acWod Mr Bdwurds, and interviews ti» peopLe whose ohdldinan don't attesnd school the people toll him "What do you want ne-.r i We have nothing to do with you- It is the C am a r voiKlhi ne man who loolcs after us." The officer is. tihoro- foro, natairally at a disa^ivantage. Questioniet} by Mr ElJis Jones Griffith, the wxtrbasH said tie Denbighshire schools at Old Cotwyn wcro oveircrowdod, and had been so for some yeans, the conumitteo having waitod pemd- tnsg tile solution of the boundary aiffioullty. As a resftilfc orf tlhe oveccro-wdiii'g, the DcaibTghshire Coimmittoo had been corn] ■ollfed to secune te-itipo- rary premirXA ivhioh were si.tuatod in fact in Llysiwn pan^ih, for tlhe accommodation of the over plus. Tbeno wore now 74 infanrts in those tomponary premises, and something in titc wa.y of providing Riuitablie buiAdinga would have to be <!bne in the immediate future, it being intended to provide an infants'' eohooil for the use of the whole district, and to use the present schools for tihe higher etandards, ajid the standards would be kurge enough to have a. teacher for each class. How do you proceed against Llysfaen parish- ioaiicrs who do not send then- cthiklren regularly ? ked Mr Griffith- Oh. waa tho reply, wo have been sc:mding notooo to the CamarvoxRiiiire autihority. They fcaico p'.roceodingy, and! OUT attendance oliicor has tc( go and give evidtemxx Oamaa-von-Jhiiro proieouto, but your officer has to prove the case for Cb.nxarvonshire ?—Yes. Both your attendance officer from oId Cohvyn and the Camaxvoaiahine oflicor from Llandudno ha.vo to attend—one to give evidence-, and the other to eondwofc tihe case?—Y«B (laughter). By tihe Inspector: This is a question of econo- my andl efficiency, and I tihrijik both would be met by the propooed cliango. How about SEOONDARY EDUCATION? Is tihat more or Jees serious?—I ooaMsidcr it more serious. We have a higiier elementary school, wihidh m do secondary work, at Colwyn Bay. amd there have been always a large number at- tending this sdhool from Llysfaen. Mr E- R. Da-TMe: How fat iq it giving a se- oocdary eduoat-km ?—Hie eJuSdnen attending tihere go for the Welaii matriouTation examina- tion —— Mr Griffith: Where would the Lfysfaen dhiI- dlren have to go for tlherr eeocadary educateoo if tihey wanted to get it in their own couirty ? The seventeen children wm attend tihe Colwyn Bay school raw wouJid have to go to LUsmckidino, be- cauBo the school at A bergele is euIQO a Denbig'h- Axnn oohool of course. The OoJwyn Bay and Abergefle swlioofe aire quite aooeesibte to Uysfaen because that paridh hes between the two, and the cMdren could almost walk to eitfiier ColWYD Bay or Abecgvato as poom as fflioy cuuid get to UamdudlrK) by train. They -wxxiid have to Leave Ltyrfaen beiore 8 a. m. to get to I-JandudVio. and they wouid be 50 mon-utes in the train; only stow trains sOOp at L^yrfaeo. LJys/sen chikfroti wwdd waSk to the Cohvyn Bay higher grade sdhool in lesB tiiem 50 mmutes; tfiey woaeki m some oases take a quarter of an hour to get to Llysfaen station* I oosr^kW that Ijiamdiwlno cannot serve tfoa dvtr&ofc becsuuse it is too far. and tiheae sdhoofis oi OUTS ana very convenient. Liysfaem diiddiren have now 00 opportunity of competing for echoku-shipe. By the Inspector: I cannot give evidieaoe I as to mhetJter any Llysfaen ciuldren do at- tend the Liandudno County SdhooJ or that at Abergele, beeauee I don't know the facts. Mr Griffith questioned Mr Edwards with reo- to the evening1 education classes, the WdtaLeas saying that there werro focrmerly o] asses held by CWnaj-v«n8iiire Committee in Llysfaen parish, but those had lattRrJy boon disoontintied with the result that the ediolare from the parish now attended the classes pro- moted by Denbighshire m OoQwyn Bay and cise-whiore. Cross-examined by Mir Pollock, Mr Edwards eaiid he was tiai mutual ar<ramgeni«2ts always made between neighbouring oouxrtiea oonoeirmmg the eciiool aooojmnodatdon of children living on the borders of the re- spective counties, but it was very eoldoan they had a case such as that in the lower portion of Llysfaen, where one-third of the children who attended the Den.bigilishire schools were from Camaa-vonehdire. The same thing applied an regard to attendance officers' eervioee, but the eyfTtem was quite unsatisfactory. He did not know that the percentage of in Carnarvonshire was 91.2 hi-ghetr than in any other county in England and Wales, but he was well awaje that that just the percentage in the CoJ- wyn Bay district (Jaughtor). In answer to Sir Frederick Low, Mr Pollock said the figures for Carnarvonshire were 91.2 and 88.5 for Denbighshire. Srir Frederick: But what are they for LJys- faen parish? Mr Pollock: We will give you aU that later. Sitr Frederick We want something relative, that ia all (laughter). Answering Mr Po32oak, Witness said he had been told that Cannajvonfiihiro intended btiil d- ing a NEW SCHOOL AT PENMAEN, but he did not believe that would materially relieve the overcrowdifng at the Dcnbighshdire schools in 04d CoJwyn, because the buJk of the population affected lived im that part of I llysfaen which formed part of Old Colwyn. Mr Pollock: It is handily worth building a school there at all, I suppose?—Haindiy. Another piece of foHy on the part of Car- | aarvomfitifreP—It would be (loud laughter).

WHAT OTHERS SAY. Jamoa Swift, A ttcrci.ffo, SlicfB^ld, says :— "The first dose gave me great relief. I can confidently eay that one box of theeo pills haa dome me more good then all the medicinea I have tavern." Mrs A. Wilkinson, of Nelson, s-tafcee:—"My ebter, who suffered from weak kidneys took one box, and rd h86 done her roore gooa than UOUJKIB spent ()11 Medical Men. HOLDROYiyS GRAVEL PILLS, a posi. tive OUré for Gravel, Paias ill the Back. Dropsty, B right's Diseases of the yø, Gout. Scietica, La 16><1, all OhemfeiA Post free 12 penny ebampa.—HOLDROYD'S MEDICAL HAIX* Ueo Mx Pollock: That's frani enooig.h at amy rate (renewed laughter). Fuj^lier quetibionicd by Mr Pulloeks, Mr Edwards acknowledged that there waa a. tramway between Cwym Bay and Lhxndudno, and that there a motor Ixitwwi th-e loww pmrt of Llysfaen paffiash and CoJwyn Bay, so that the children ood get to the Liaindudno County SohooJ by that meams if they choose. But they don't choose, rc- marked the wiitucse, because they would be passing the Oohvyn Bay School on theiir way. Mr Evan R. Davies also cross-ex am imied the witness at corrsiderablo long-th. He said he did not complain of the manneir in whioli the L'aa-r.a.n<ml".hire officer did his duty an Dye- facn he wvus doing splendid work under the system undier wirich he worked—but ift w.1.S tlie system that was unsatisfactory. He ad- mitted that there had bMm scrrse develo]Mnen,t in the area around Ponroaeiuhos, whore the new Carnarvonshire »c!ioo2 was to be built, but there was a far lairger development ill 1,1 le lower portion of the district noarcr Odd Col- wyn. The Colwyn Bay higher grade s^'hool was not strictly a secondary school u;nd<xr the Act, but it did the same work practicably, and was regarded ae a pupil teachers'' centre. The agfe limitt for the children was not in- eiatxxl upon m the school, thus proving tiiat in fact it was something better than a higher elementary scJiool. 160 scholars registered in the school at present, and fifteen scholarships were offered- -five each year of three years each; none of these, however, could be held by Liysfaem children, because they came from Carnarvonshire, winch he thought was not unfair in view of the fact that t Llysfaen parents did not pay rates to Den bighishire. The Inspector: What in fact is the school at Colwyn. Bay? Mr E. 1L Davies: It is only a higher ele- mentary school. Itev. John Edwards (emphatically): But it is secondary wo.rk. Let ua give THE TRUE FACTS at any rate. It is an amomaly; everybody acknowledges that there F.houJd be a county school at Colwyn Bay, amd this one should be regarded as such w.hon it actually does the work of one. Boa.rd of .Education not allow calluldren over 15 yeaTs of age to at- tend higher elementary (schools, but they don't inmst upon that in the Colwyn Bay School, where they are allowed to remain up till any age praoticaJily, Mr E. R. Davies: You make an admirable witnc-ss as a special pleaidecr (langhtar). Sir Frederick Low objected to thie obeerva- tion. Replying to further questions by Mr E. R. I*aviict>, Mr Edwards said no seoamdajry schood grants were made towards the Codwyn Bay School. With reference to a point passed by Mx Davies, touching the number of Denbighshire ciU tldrem at't-rmitfung Ca.na.rvœ16h sehooils, Sir Frederick remarked that at Old Colwyn the proportion was almjost unexampled. T Inspector This is a case of all give and no take (.Ia,ught&). S'rr Frederick: Or aU take and no give (re- newed laughter). CONFORMATORY EVIDENCE. Mr Edward BitheJl, attendance officer under the Denbighshire Education Comjnittee, and neeiditiig a.t Old Colwyn, gave evidence sub- stantially con filming that ol the previous wit- ness Explaining Die system under wliieh the LJ ysf.a.r!ll lower txdioed ai-ea was worked in reference to attendant at present, he said he visited Peiunaen twice or thtrre limes a week, and got a lict of bad attendances, which he sent on to the Carnarvonshire officer at Llandudno. If the parish were under his supervision he could perform the work better thlWl it was done now. Sir Frederick l/ow: In reference to the prosecution of Llysfaen offenders we this amusing 6<1;ate of things: You give verbal wanning, a.nd if the offei-ders do not act upon that you threaten them with Mr Jones, of Llandudno?—Yes (laughter). And if that does not do Mr Jones comes along, and he gives verbal warning. if that does not act both of you go to Llan- dudno or Conway. You give evidence, and Mr Joncrs conducts the prosecution?—Yes. And both of you could he better employed than looking after a police case which one man can attend to?-—Same of my managers think so, sir (langhtor). Mr Pollock And so satisfactory an in. fluence has the combination of Mr Bithc'l end Mr Jones upon the people that there are fewer prosecutions than used to bo?—There are very few now. People now kinow what it is to have Bithell and Jones working together?- -Yes, but they very often want to know who's who (laughter). Sirt Frederick But Mr Jones does the ad- vocacy. You do the wocrk, and Mr Jones looks after you?—Yes, I suppose < rem owed laughter). VICE-CHAIRMAN OF TTIE COLWYN BAY COUNCIL. Mr T. H. Morgan, solicitor, viee-chairman of the Colwyn Bay Urban District Council, gave evidence im support of the application on behalf of his Council. Sir Frederick What is the main point you want to emphasise for the consideration of the Local Government Boaixl in this matter? —That, generally speaiing, the present con- dition of affairs is a muddle. Siir Frederick If you grivo us particulars of tho nniddle that will be your evidence (laughter). Witness proceeded to say that, taking the question of main road administration first, there were portions of the Carnarvonshire thoroughfare a.t present intersecting thai, of Denbighshire writh the result that there were complaints that the Carnarvonshire portions were not watered and scavenged as they should be, whereas if those portions belonged to Denbighahire they would be under the control of the Dcnbighsshire Road Authority, and attended to in the same way as those sections on either side of them. Then with regard to Ir-censing business it seearaed an absurdity that licenoeee in the Llysfaen dis- trict should go to Colwyn Bay with reference to any offences committed on their premises, whilst for the purpose of tr an steering the rame licence the person would have to go to Conway where the justices would have no knowledge whether any offence had been com- mitted, because the Deinhighshine police would not of necessity attend sub Conway under neh circumstances. He agreed with what had been said by the JOOv. John Edwards and Mr Bithell in respect to education. T9ie existing state of affaire concerning tihe criminal juris- diction was extraordinary, and there wae grave doubt abootr the legality of the position for prosecution or anything else, because it was obviously an extraordinary thing that when an offence was committed in Carnarvon- shire, the person charged should appear be- fore a. Denbighshire bench. Replying to Mr AmphJett, Mr Morgan said he was, and oecrotary to the Colwyn, Bay, Old Colwyn amd District Tradesmen's Protection Association, and that capacity he had much to do from time to time m reference tot the trading concerns of the districts. There were shops at Old Colwyn, some of them in Carnarvonshiro and others in Denbighshire, though they were situated quite close to one another in many eases. The two counties made regulations with regard to shop closing hours, and Tinder existing circumsarfnees that tilings worked xmfainly because while one lot of shops closed the other lot were aUowoo to remain open. The Witness explained in detail the trouble rooentJyexperienced in obtaining the enforce- ment of the Shop Hours Act, owting to the ridiculous geographical situation of Llysfaen parish, amd remarked that two petitions had been necessary, while one would have been sufficient under other circuimetanees. The boundary had been altered on a previous occasion, because he recollected the time when the Carnarvonshire boundary used to reach the bottom of Rhos-road, at Rhos-on-Sea— going) to a small censer piece of land called the Rising GuU, now occupied by a residence known as Trillo Villa. There were now a chapel, and two houses on another section of the land. That was altered when the Col- wyn Bay urban district was formed, and it would be only reasonable to ailter the bound- ary in the same way at Llysfaen, for the whole administration of the diBtrict would benefit very considerably by the change. Cross-examined by Mr Pollock, Witness said the district and water rate at Colwyn Bay was 5s lOd at present. Be did not know what the rate was at Llysfaen. Questioned by Mr E. R. Davies, he said the Carnarvonshire Council might have latterly made a closing order with regard to the OJd CQlwyn shops, but he had had no official notice of it. There had bean a very considerable difficulty about the ordier. Mr George Bevan said he was a justice of the peace for Denbighshire, and an ex-chair- man of the Colwyn Bay Urban District Council. He corroborated Mr Morgan's evidence on all the points raised. The Col- wyn Ray Council was the largest contributing authority to the Denbighshire Council, and as a representative of tho Colwyn Bay Coun- cil he objectod that moneys contributed from Colwyn Bay should be expended in Llys- faen parristh which did not belong to theur own county. On that principle, he, en behalf of the Colwyn Bay Council, supported the application. By Mr Pollock: The rateable value of Col- wyn Bay was between £4000 and .£5000 greater than that of Wrexham borough, it being something lik..£87 ,000 according to the last assessment. LLYSFAEN SUPPORTERS' PETITION. Mr Robert John J-ewis^ o'f London House, Old Cohvyn, said his hcuse was situated m I^ysfsuwi parish, and he desiroci to we the trans- fer carried out because it woukl be of advan- tage to the )>!)&oc getterally. The rateable value of his pmmises was £4-1 12s 6d. At pne- semt the Uyisfaon parishioners were as though tihey were on a little, island in the of De-mbi-ghehire, which proved most inconvenient. II;8 promises were situated on a. part of the parish that projected right into the Colwyn Bay ur-ban district alcn-jr cbo main road, and they had the road at t.tia.t point- for six weeks at a time without a-Tiybody attend;i)ig to it in any \\1;I.y, with the ranilt that there were nu- merous oompiaintB. It was only year tliat they had had the road watered for the first time, while that pa.rt of the road within the Colwyn liay ama was properly scavenged and watered and looked after generally. A miari attended to the (/arnarvoiuiiire portion about orioo a week when he .shotiki be there once a day, as thcro was enonmous traltio over the road. By Mr Pol icy ;k: The rates in Llysfaen and Colwyn Bay were about the tan 10 taking them aJtogether—6d ia the i> in fact. In eJUTwer to Mr PoLlock, Mr AmphJett &aid Mr Ecfovard Roberts, tiie rate oofiector, would be oaliod, 'he wouid toli the Coiiuniasione-rs that the witnees' statement ()Il1 that point was quite correct; iine mtes were ex^ietjy tihe 6il..nc in both areas. Cross-examined by Mr E. R. Davic«, Witness said he did ,ot know that the county rate WaB la 2d in the- £ higher 1.J.) Denbighshire than Mr Lewis prodluced a petition in support of the change e.igned by Llysfaen ratepayers, re- preeeiatiiig a total value of £2000, out of the total £11,813 which the parish of Llysfaen was rated at, and he explained that of the total of the Railway Company were accountable for £3000, and the coinjvuiy wouid take no part in those proceedings. The signatories were an rated at £10 upwards. Cross-examined by Mr Poliook, Witness said Dr. Price Morris, one of the signatories, Wad a rateiayer, and resided next door to him in the •p-arisih of Ll'ylstfaeai. Mr Am.uhlett: He is the leading medical man m the plaoo. Mr I'o'.leck rtuestiotned the witness closely as to the character of the petitioners. Who is D. Mac. NicoL ? asked Counsel.—He is a member of the County Council!, was the retp.'iy. lie has office; at Old Colwyn, in Uys- faen pia.rich, and is agent for a very large area of the land in the parish. He lives im Llan- ohan parish. Mr Amphlett: He e-hn. possibly more to do with IJys.feen than a.ny one else. In answer to Mr E. R. Davies, Witness said he liad taken tl\lopot¡n rouIW; the clerk to tine lXaabigh County Council had asked him to do eo. Mr Edward BitheM was recalled to prwe certain signatures in the petitaon. By Mr Pollock: The roO were three of tlie signatories from Colwyn Ray, and m each of tho three tn»tanoes they were owners of property in L'vcfeen. All the other signatories attested to by him lived, he believed, in Llys- faen. BEWILDERED PARISHIONERS. Mr Pollock: Why do you say "I believe?" Witness: Because I acn not suire. Why?—Because some of them don't know tJ-¡emoh-¡iJS whether they live* in Llysfaen or (Jolwyn Bay (loud lau-ghter). And come of them are in both (renewed laughter). I went to a. row of houses in Oadogan-avcn'ue, and tihey teld me tihey bslieved tihey were an in the parish of Ijltys-faen wiith the exception of two (laughter). AN ABSENTEE. Sir Frederick Low expia;ned that he had hoped to end Mr D. Mac. Nicoli in support of tho application, but the annual imceting of tilae Denb;hshire Council was held that dkiy, and Mr Mac. Xicoii had perforce to attend that, as h was a member. If there was airy neoe«5ity Mr Mae. NicülJ ooukl be a.t a. iarer fitage. Tho lIl!31:;eotor: Yes, that -will do. Mr JCdward Roberts, rate collector and a8- sistant ovcavcor for Lly-sf.aen, Old Cehvyn and CohvJil Hay, gave evidenoo proving that tihe towil rates in Llvataen were 9s 6d in the madlCo of Its poor rate and 5s bd special saril- tary rate. The Irsspeetor: I3 the sanitary rate for the whole parish?—The whole p3.r;Gh. There is no special levy of Is charged on a. certain a.rNL 7- No. Then some-body is paying Is who should not pay it. In answer to the Inspector, Mr Aiiiph-lett explained that the 5s 6d rate referred to included the Is t-iriec.:al .sanitary rate. By agtujeineiit between the Couwyn ilay Urban Distrktt Council and tlie Conway Itural Distrust Council the' drainage of a certain part of Llys- faen parish—that part on the Colwyn Ba.y side of the head—was done through t'hc Colwyn Bay drains, and the Is rale in question waa levied in respect of tho uoo of those drams. He not know how tho rate was diividod by tho Llyofaen authorities-, but it appeared that the whole parish paid it. The Inspector asked for correct figures and documentary evidence bearing upon the point. Continuing, Mr Edward Roberts the poor rato in the Oolwyn Bay D.&tnct was 3s 8d, and the genei-ai district rate (sno'ud-ng water) lis lOd, which came to a total of 9s 6d jut-rt the »IM as weix; levied on 1ly.f a,<]D. Mr W. G. Dodd, ohairman of the Denbigh- shire Education Committee a.nd a member of the Denbigh County Council, gave further evidwacu in support of the applicat oox He said tlie preeonit state of affairs was unfair ail rotund—^unfair to Denbighshire beoa-u^e tJiey practkully eu,pj)lied the eduoatiion of the cdn-ldren of tho parish, and unfair to the children, of I*ysfaen becawof. they did not have the beneiit of tlie full adn.m-6tTa. tion of the Authority which concerned the parish. He also a-greed with the cvidcnM. given conceirning the unsatwrfivotory method, of poJicing the district, a matter which had cctrie before him on many oecstssons as a member oif the Standing Joint Committee. Sir Frederick Low: Subject to eaKmg MT Mac. Nicc-S and one or two other witziessx* that will be- all the evidence I propose bb caii in the IJysfaen case. THE OPPOSITION. • Mr Pollock then opened the case in opposition on balla.lf of the county of Carnarvon. He own tended in the course of his speecli tSuat there had been no proof that the pariah had been in any way neglected or had in any way suffered at tho hands of the Carnarvonshire administra- tion. Geographically it was more K-ad ly ad- ministered from Carnarvon than from Ruthm, owiutg to the better railway ctrmnunicatx>n with the former place. There was no ground, he hexii, for interfering with the wliole structure which had been in operation and liad worked wJ, he &Ut.xi 1\ha. tJl<'> dliff1Ol.! Jt.: Wih.cii had arisen as to the poncing of the 1-n itod rather been foBtcred by Denbighshire with a vvew to tho pm:eni application. He also fiiud that the alienation of ncgicct on the pari of the Carnarvondure t>oIice in regard to co^es of sw irte fever last November, ai to which evidence was given by a. police oonstab'e on. Wednesday, was qujte gTt»uTidJess, inasmuch as in thcoo oaBœ t.he instant the informaticn w' us given to ln- BpecVw a.t Iiandudno he ad-vised tlie Board of Agriculture, tliis being tha whtte of his Arty in tlie matter. When he had called his evjoence he wouid ask the nspector to report against the proposed transfer of this p-nmsh. Mr E. R. Davies aleo addressed the inspector in opposition, tjowitrng out tha.t for county Llysdaen had saved in tihe past three yoane by not Ixjin-g in Denbighshire. CLERK TO THE CARNARVONSHIRE COUNCIL. v Mr John Thomas Roberts, ol-erk to the Car- narvonshire County Council, and deputy-clerk of tlie peace for Carnarvonshire, made a state- ment in regard to the administration of the Contagious Diseases (Animals) Act. On the opening'day, police evidence was given to the effect that three cases of swine fever had occurred in Llysfaen parish, in one week, and tha.t in one instance in particular a delay of three days had occurred before the infected animaJs were inspected in conse- quence of tlie isolation of the parish from its own county. Mr Roberts now explained that whereas in regard to sheep scab authority was altogether vested in the County CJotuncil, in reference to swane fever the authority was vested in the Board of Agriculture. The moment a case of swine fever was notified all the County Council was held responsible for was that,

MANY UNSUSPECTED CASES IN COLWYN BAY. Nothing is more to be feared than kidney con> pilaint, because it ie often unsuspected until it has spread dangerous disease throughout the body. There arc many tm'^uspeotedl cases here in Col- wyrn Bay, and if you have any such symptom of kidhoy complaint as pain in the lodns axud back, urinary disordiersi, gravel, dyoipsica.! sweiElinigs, rhouiiniatic pains, and It wean- neai, you shouild profit by this Abergele woman's Mrs A. Jones, of 7, Plas Newydd Buildings, Aborgele, says:—"I have suffered witlh* kidney oompfcuTit at itvterrafa for many years. I had servero pains across nry back and loans, v.hoiih made it difficult for me to stoop and more diffi- cult to rise again. I was so bad at times that it was jxnijbbo for me to turn over in bod without assistance. The kidney seorefcions, too, wore troublesome to juim, and csuHod) great pain. "Hearing' of Doain's baokadhe kidney pills and the good they had done to others, I _deeaded to try thcm. altliougfli I had n 6 faith in them, having already tried numerous so- called remedies without resuilt- I had not been taking Doan's backache Icdney pills long before I found tJliey were doing mo goodl Tho paine soon began- to disappear, the kidney secretions passed easily and natuiraUy. and I improye.d in health generally. I am now ae well as ever, and I always take a few dosee of Doan's pits om the siiightest return of my oid complaint; they always do me. I con cenfiderstfy recommend other suffeircTe to try tho pills.11 Doan's backache kidney pills aro two shilling* HiJ ninGpenoo per box, or six boxes for thirteen shillings and ninepenoe- Of all chemist* and stores, or post-free direct from the Fosfcer- McCVellan Co., 8, Wells street, Oxford-street, London. W. Be sure you giet tho saond kind of piffle ae Mrs Joraeg ha*i through their police, the case was notified to the Board of Agriculture. In Carnarvonshire every polioe officer was appointed an inspector for the purposes of the Ad, so far as sheep scab was concerned, and dealt with the outbreak themselves, but the moment the police reported a ease of swine fever to the Board of Agriculture, their responsibility ceased. So far as the three coses of swine fever in Llysfaen were ooeiccrned, no delay ha.d occurred on the part of the Carnarvon- shire police they had been reported to the Board of Agriculture, as soon a.s the Dcn- bighshire officer stationed at Llysfaen report- ed th-am to the LLandudmo police. Questioned by Mr Pollock, Witness said that when negotiating with Denbigbshiire with a view to purchasing Talycafn Bridge, Mr Rob>?rt.3, the deputy-clerk of the Denbigh- shire Council, gave him to understand that the latter authority had practically reached the limit of their borrowing power. Carnar- vonshire, on the other hand, had the ample margin of between and £16,000 on their borrowing powers. Cross-examined by Sir F. Low, Witness said the distance between Liysfaem and Llandudno was so small, and its means of communication by raw or wire 00 good, that there was no difficulty in administering the Contagious Dis- eases Animals Act in the parish at pre- sent. But you have no authority in the parish to deal with it?—Yes, the polioe officer. But he is a Denbighshire officer5—I agree, but we can appoint anybody we like an iD- spector under the Act. If on cannot appoint the Denbighshire officer without tho consent of the Denbighshire Authority ?—I don't say 00. Is there any Carnarvonshire officer respon- sible for the administration of the Art in the parish of Llysfaen?—Yes, Inspector Owen, of Llandudno. As a matter of fact, there is no official ex- ercising police functions within the parish who is a Carnarvonshire officer?—No. By Mr Amphlctt: He could not pledge his memory as to whether a, single case under the Act had been brought into Court from Llysfaen, but there were very few sheep in the pariah. Mr Amphlett: The officer told us on Wed- nesday there were GOOO dipped there last yea..r. Mr Pollock 3000 sheep dipped twice? But there are parishes in Carnarvonshire where there are thousands and thousands of sheep? Sir F. Low But disease amongst these 3000 nmght infect all those in the surrounding county of Denbighshire. b LLYSFAEN SWINE FEVER OUT- BREAK. Inspector Owen. of Llandudno, said he re- membered receiving notices from P.C. Row- lands, of Llanddulas, on November 14th, 16th, and 18th, last year, with reference to out- breaks of swine fever, and in each case wit- ness notified the Board of Agriculture by wire, sent forms of notification to his own Cluef-Constable, and notices to the owners of the pigs. Cross-examined by Sir F. Low: The Board of Agriculture had appointed one inspector for the four counties of Carnarvon, Anglesey, Montgomery, and Merioneth. He was not aware that Mr Booth, of Old Colwyn, was an inspector under the Board. So tha.t if the Denbighshire officer had been acting on his own territory in these three cases he would have communicated with the Board of Agriculture directly, and the Board of Agriculture would have been able to send Mr Booth, the Denbighshire inspector, at once to attend to the cases?—I don't know what the Board of Agriculture would do in that case. By Mr Amphlett: Our men do not patrol Llysfaen, but they serve summonses there. LORD-LIEUTENANT OF CARNAR- VONSHIRE. Mjf John Ernest Greaves, Lord-Lieutenant of Carnarvonshire, said he had two residences im the oounty, and he had been Lord-Lieuten- ant since 1886; Chairman of the Court of Quarter Sessions for 20 years, a member of the County Council from the commencement, being chairman in 1906; Chairman of the Car- narvonshire Territorial Forces Association, a.nd a member of the Commission on the Church in Wales. Sir F. Low: I should have thought the Church Commission has taken most of his time lately (loud laughter). Mr Greaves, proceeding, said he had also been Chairman of the Carnarvonshire Joint Standing Committee, and had taken a deep interest in all county matters for the last 25 years. During that period no serious diffi- culty come umder his notice of the work- ing of Llysfaen affairs from Carnarvon. The oounty of Denbigh had acquired two portions of Carnarvonshire in the parish of Eiriag— one in 1878, and the other in 1887. He had found nothing wrong in the administration of the Diseases of Animals Act in Llysfaen, and he had never heard that there had been a. larger amount of disease amongst the ani- mals of Carnarvonshire than those of Den- bighshire. Certain difficulties were bound to arise where county boundaries were co- terminus, especially under the Education Act. Carnarvonshire were perfectly prepared to make the necessary a IT AUGEMEN ts for tihe efficient policing of the parish, and they had already applied to the. Home Office for autho- rity to increase the force there. From the oounty administration point of view he really oould see no great benefit that could accrue from the change proposed. Sir F. Low: In purely police matters a Chief-Constable would be better able to give evidence than the Ix>rd-Lieutenant of a ooun- ty? — In purely technical police matters, yes- Perhaps Carnarvonshire could police this parish better than Desabigh«hire?—I am not going to express an opinion about that (laugh- ter). is there any other piece of Carnarvonshire lying away from it, and surrounded by au- oth-er county as this parish 18?-I don't know of anv. COUNTY ROAD MAINTENANCE. Mr Evan Evans, county surveyor for Ca.r- narvonshire, spoke with regard to tike main- tenance of the main road in the parish. He said he thought the work could be as effici- ently and economically done by Carnarvon- shire ae Denbighshire. The average 008t per mile of roads in Carnarvonshire was £34, whilst iD the western division of Denbigh- shire it was iltl 16s, or per mile for the whole county. There were two miles of main roads in Liysfaem, and they cost .£40 per mile per annum to maintain. There was no trouble in getting road metalling to Llysfaen, for they trained it from Peri mocnm.awr, either to Old C'olwyn, which was at one end of the district, or Llysfaen station, at the other end of tho district. There was no difficulty whatever about supervising the pa.rish roads from Carnarvon, for he oould get there just as soon as the Denbighshire surveyor from Ruthin. With regard to the section of road at Old Clwyn referred to by the witness Lewis, he 1100 never received any complaint whatever. The roadman lived within 100 yards of the road, and should be able to a.t- tend to it adequately. By Mr Amphlett: He was told that the maim roads in the Colwyn Bay district coot .£450 per mile to maintain, and he admitted that the cost of the small section referred to at Old Colwyn oo-st a. litUe more than the remainder of the Llysfaen road. He agreed that it would be impossible to drain the lower portion of the parish by gravitation except througih the Colwyn Bay district. In reply to the Inspector, Mr Evans said the district roads in Llysfaen, measuring eight miles, cost .£17 3s per mile, making a total of £137 4s lOd. Morris Hugh Williams, county treasurer, Carnarvon, gave formal evidence as to tho financial position of Carnarvonshire. SEWERAGE AND WATERWORKS. Thomas Booth Farrington, A.M. Inst. C.E., Llandudno, engineer to the Conway Rural District Council and the Cowlyd Water Board, described the sewerage and waterworks, he had carried out at Llysfaen, and said the sewerage scheme had been carried out at an outlay of .£1300, which had been borne alto- gether by the parish. The extension of tho water main had cost more, and in carry- ing" the water main from the Ship Inn, Old Colwyn, to the head at the Highlands, .£1100 had been spent by the parish, and since 1906 there had been various extensions and im- provements costing .£750. In answer to the Inspector, Mr Farrington said certain work had been already carried out by the Rural District Council, for which they had not' yet obtained the sanction of the Local Government Board. How have they had the money?—From the bank, I suppose; but I don't know. Mr Amphlett: The Joint Water Board finish their duties by delivering water in the different constituent districts, and the ex. pense in distribution falls upon the districts th emscl ves ?—Y cs. Is not Llysfaen part of the constituent dis- trict known aa the Conway Rural District Council ?—Yes. And the work of the Board finishes in re- gard tot Llysfaen when it de-livers the water at Sarnvnaynach, 4} miles away from Llys- faen ?—No. Llysfaen is part of the Conway Rural Dis- trict Council, which ia one of the constituent districts?—Yes. tÇontinued on next page.)

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