The Welsh Coast Pioneer and Review for North Cambria

Abergele and Pensarn Urban District Council. The Clerk and Mr Lumley. Personal Explanation from Mr Crabbe. Sharp Criticism of Mr Lumley. The Gas Company and their Charges. No Water for New Houses. THE monthly meeting of this Council was held in the Town Hall, Abergele, on Monday even- ing, when there were present Mr Thos. Evans (in the chair), Messrs Tohn Hannah, Geo. Per- kins, J. Pierce, Pierce Davies, John Edwards, J. Knight, Edward Williams, J. Morris, J. Rob- erts, the clerk (Mr E. A. Crabbe), and the sur- veyor (Mr M. R. Jones). The Steam RoHer Question. The Surveyor reported the receipt of tenders for the hire of a steam, roller from the Lanca- shire Road Rolling Company and the Edison Company. The former asked 30s per day and the latter 32s per day, no charge being made for travelling time. The Denbigh Corporation said they could not let their roller out on hire for some time, and their charge in any case would be two guineas. The Chairman: What about scarifying? The Surveyor: The Lancashire Company want a farthing per superficial yard, and the other people ask one penny. The Chairman: We may as well drop the Denbigh Corporation. Mr Edward Williams Is it necessary to de- cide this question to-night? In our present posi- tion, we shall not require it for some time. tion, we shall not require it for some time. The Chairman I believe we shall. The Pen- tremawr road must be made up. The Surveyor: You can accept one of the tenders, even if you don't act upon it at once. Mr Geo. Perkins asked whether there was any prospect of a hitch in the negotiations? The Cl-airman: Whatever the County Coun- cil do, that road must be attended to. We are reproached about its condition everywhere. Mr Pierce proposed, and Mr J. Edwards seconded, that the tender of the Lancashire Company be accepted.—Carried. New Governor. On the motion of Mr Pierce, seconded by Mr Pierce Davies, Mr John Hannah was appointed a governor of the North Wales University Col- lege. Clean Lodging Houses, The Inspector of Common Lodging-houses re- ported that he had visited them, and found everything clean and orderly. Model Byelaws. The Clerk said that, as the Council had prac- tically resolved to adopt the model bye-laws of the Local Government Board en bloc, he would bring the decision of the Council before the Local Government Board for confirmation. It was then, on the motion of Mr Hannah, secon- ded by Mr J. Knight, decided to formally adopt them. The Gas Company's Charges. NO REDUCTION ALLOWED FOR PUBLIC LIGHTING. The Clerk read a letter from Mr H. Millward, secretary of the Abergele Gas Company, stating that the Council's letter asking for a reduction in the price, of gas for the public lamps was con- sidered by his directors, and he was instructed to point out that the increase in the. year 1901 over the previous year did not amount to a half- penny per lamp for each night lighted, and con- sidering that the town was much better lighted, the increase after all was exceedingly moderate. To prevent any erroneous impression, he was also asked to mention that the average dividend paid for the past six years was 3% per cent., and at this rate there was not in the whole of North Wales a company which charged so low a price for gas as the Abergele Gas Company, which, under its Parliamentary powers, was en- titled to a dividend of 10 per cent. Although there had been a reduction in the price of household coal, the price of gas coal remained practically the same, the reduction being only is per ton, which was entirely swal- lowed up in increased wages. The directors regretted that they could not reduce the price of gas for public lighting be- cause they would be compelled to raise the price to private, consumers in consequence of the small dividends paid by the company, and this the directors maintained would be unfair, as they considered all consumers should be charged alike in the same manner as local and other rates, irrespective of the amount. To show, however, that the directors were alive to the necessity of efficient public lighting, they were prepared to make an allowance of 5 per cent. upon the Council's bill from January 1st, 1903, and he assured the Council that when- ever the directors were in a position, a reduction in the price of gas would at once be granted tc all the consumers. In reply to Mr Pierce, the Clerk said the 5 per cent. was in addition to what they had had before. Mr Pierce said he expected the Gas Company would have been a little more liberal. Five per cent was not very much, and if the Council were encouraged by the Company, in the shape of reasonable charges, it was not unlikely that they would go in for extension of public lighting. It was not exactly fair to compare the Council with private consumers. They had considerably more lamps in use now than formerly, and yet they were, on the average, paying the Gas Com- pany more than they did in previous years. The cost of public Lighting was getting a big item, and the Company ought to meet them in a reasonable spirit. However, he supposed they must be thankful for small mercies. Mr Geo. Perkins You need not thank them for the five per cent, because everybody gets it. (Laughter.) The Chairman This is an additional five per cent. Mr Geo. Perkins: Oh! I beg your pardon. Then it means ten per cent altogether? The Chairman Yes. Telephonic Communication. THE RESULT OF MONOPOLY. The Clerk read the following letter from the assistant secretary of the General Postoffice Sir,—With reference to your letter of the 19th of August last. relative to telephonic facilities at Abergele, I am directed by the Postmaster-General to say that enquiry is being made, with the view of ascertaining what amount of support would be forth- coming to a Postoffice Exchange at Abergele, but that the enquiry has not yet been completed. r In the meantime I am to forward for the information of your Council the enclosed notice, showing the rates of subscription. The message rate would not how- ever, be applicable, unless a fair number of subscribers were forthcoming. The rates would cover communication between Postoffice subscribers at Abergele, and subscribers would be entitled, on payment of the appropriate trunk fee, to communicate over the trunk with sub- scribers of the Post-offices, the National Telephone Company (except their subscribers at Rhyl and Denbigh) and other licenses in all towns of the United Kingdom connected with the trunk system. Subscribers would also be able to use their circuit to forward such messages to the Postoffice for onward transmission as telegrams, express messages, or letters, subject to the ordinary charges for such services. Mr Geo. Perkins It is no good at all. We cannot speak to Rhyl or Denbigh, only Colwyn Bay, and there seems to be, more call for com- munication to Rhyl and Denbigh than to any other local centre. It is a great shame. The Post-office people seem; to have sold their rights to the National Telephone people at Rhyl, and they now have the monopoly. Mr Pierce It is extremely unfortunate that we should suffer through it. The Removal of Town Refuse. The Clerk reported that the contracts made by the Council with Mr Vaug'han, Siamber Wen, and Mr David Williams, Ty Gwyn, for remov- I ing town refuse expires this month. Mr Vaughan, who received ^36, asked the Council to grant him an extra £6 per year, as the work was very heavy. If the Council gave him the contract under the new terms, he would do his best to keep- the town in good order. The Surveyor said Mr Vaughan had had a great deal of work to do, and he had done things which other contractors had not done. Some of the debris was very heavy, and consisted of heavy articles besides ashes and ordinary rub- bish. Mr Edward Williams said the Council were too obliging in carting all this debris away. They should have separate receptacles for tins, etc., and for ashes, and the tenants should clear them away themselves. Mr Geo. Perkins They put old carpet bags and packing cases in. (Laughter.) Where does the question of tradesmen's refuse come in? The Surveyor Trade refuse is another item, and I don't know whether you should not make a charge per load for trade refuse. A lot of rubbish answering that description is carted away by Mr Williams from the Market Hall, at Pensarn. Mr Perkins said he heard that some of the rubbish was left long enough to be a great nuis- ance to the neighbours. The Surveyor said the contractor would some- times allow the debris to accumulate for nearly three months. Mr Pierce I don't suppose it would pay Mr Williams to keep a man to go round every week. Mr Perkins If the Council is willing, I will agree to give him the extra Z6, but I think we shall have to advertise for fresh tenders. Mr Perkins proposed, and Mr Morris secon- ded, that the same terms as before be offered to the contractors, and that if they refused them fresh tenders be applied for. The Rhyl Council! and the Water Supply. ALLEjGED ABOMINABLE TREATMENT. The Clerk said some houses were in course of erection in Alexandra-avenue, and although repeated applications had been made to the Rhyl Urban Council for water to be laid on, no notice had been taken of tne letters. Offers had been made to sign the usual forms to pay a sufficient water rate to cover interest upon the outlay, and, in fact, to do every reasonable thing necessary, but all in vain. Last week, one of the owners consulted him (the clerk) on the matter, and he wrote Mr Arthur Rowlands a private letter. Up to the present he had re- ceived no reply. One of the houses was ready for occupation, but the tenant could not go in because there was no water. If the ratepayers of Abergele were going to be treated in this sort of manner, it was most serious. Under the circumstances, his client had asked him to in- voke the Council's assistance in getting him a water supply. Mr Morris: What are our powers in regard to the water supply? The Clerk We can compel them to supply it. I had a case not very long ago, in which it took "three or four months to move them. I say it is a scandal and crying shame to treat any district in this manner. Mr Pierce said it was a pity that they should have to threaten the Water Company, who would be well advised if they looked after the interests of Abergele. Mr Knight proposed that the clerk take imme- diate steps to see that the Rhyl Council provi- ded the necessary water, in accordance with the Act of Parliament. Mr Pierce seconded the motion, which was carried. -0-

A PERSONAL DISPUTE. Sequel to a County Council Resolution. Mr Crabbe Strongly Denies Air Lumley's Allegation. Lively Discussion. Mr Crabbe I have another matter to bring forward, gentlemen, and I am sorry to say it is a personal one. I have not heard officially in the matter, and all I have got to go on are two newspapers, which contain full reports of the proceedings at the Denbighshire County Coun- cil. But, as the two- independent reports in the "Welsh Coast Pioneer" and the "North Wales Times" are almost identical in word, and ex- actly the same in substance, I have no doubt they report faithfully what took place. The report refers to a resolution which this Council authorised me to communicate to the clerk of the County Council, suggesting that the main road surveyor of the County Council, and our own surveyor should meet to try and see if some .amicable arrangement could not be made with regard to the making up of Dundonald-avenue. In August last, you will probably remember that you passed a resolution instructing the sur- veyor to prepare estimates of what had been spent in making, up the avenue, and to forward them to the County Council, who were asked to discuss them. The estimates were first brought before this Council, and they were found to in- volve the expenditure of considerably more money than we thought of at that time. Even- tually the Council met as a committee on the road, and it was then decided not to send the estimates, but that I should write to the County Council, suggesting the meeting of the two sur- ¡ veyors, so that a mutual understanding could be I arrived at, as to the least sum of money which would be required to put the road in order. Accordingly I wrote- this letter at your instruc- tions :— Town Hall, Abergele September 27th, 1902. Dear Sir,—My Council, in the course of this winter, propose making up and steam-rolling the road leading from Abergele to the station, and they consider it might save unpleasantness in the future if your Main Roads Committee would authorise your main road surveyor to meet the surveyor to this Council on the road, and confer as to what is absolutely necessary to be done. Perhaps you will bring this before your committee at their next meeting, and let me know what they decide upon. Thanking you in anticipation, I am, yours faith- fully, EDW. A. CRABBE. W. R. Evans, Esq., Ruthin. That letter, gentlemen, was sent in accord- ance with your express instructions, and no one can say that, in writing this letter, I exceeded those instructions in any way. The letter came before the Main Roads Committee, and, accord- ing to the "Pioneer" report, the committee au- thorised their surveyor to meet our surveyor as suggested. This committee, ,I might say, natur- ally knows more a;bout the requirements of the roads of the county than the general Council, because they spend hours in discussing the pros and cons of the questions which come before them. Therefore, this committee, after deliber- ation, thinks it will be the best modus operandi. When the resolution comes before the Council for confirmation, that decision, much to every- one's surprise, is quashed. Mr Lumley said that the letter did not appear to have been au- thorised by the Council, but had, from the word- ing, been. written by the clerk, without the Council's authority. In that case, the Council would be establishing an unfortunate precedent if they acted upon the letter. I am not (con- tinued Mr Crabbe)- much concerned with the rest of Mr Lumley's remarks; but the point is, that he charges me with writing without the authority of my Council. Everyone of you gen- tlemen here were cognisant of what took place, and knew that I was directly authorised to write that letter. I should have been a fool, an idiot, to have written a letter to the County Council without your sanction, because it would natur- ally get into the papers. Why, therefore, Mr Lumley should make this suggestion, I don't know. He has worded it very cleverly, and I suppose such a statement is privileged, but if he would repeat it in the street, I would try what a writ would do. I ask you to confirm to-night what I did when I wrote to the County Council. Mr Geo. Perkins said he considered Mr Lum- ley's remarks a .great insult to their clerk, more especially considering the circumstances under which it had been brought before their notice. He believed every member of the Council agreed to and adopted the suggestion that the two sur- veyors should meet on the avenue in order to avoid any possible future friction with the County Council. The committee agreed to their suggestion, and everything proceeded smoothly until the, County Council was reached, and then the- wreck came. The County Council's sur- veyor would only be too glad to meet the Urban Council's surveyor, but apparently the County Council did not care to have an amicable, settle- ment of the matter. He was sorry the result of the arbitration case had not yet come to hand. He, for one, strongly resented the slur which Mr Lumley had cast upon their clerk, who was as much a servant of theirs as the surveyor or roadman, and who, if he had done what was alleged, would not have been a fit and proper person to hold the position he. held. Politics had never been discussed in that Council Cham- ber whilst he had been a member of the Coun- cil, but he was afraid there was a touch of it in this case. He hoped the Council would unani- mously protest against such a slur being cast at a man behind his back, because he had sim- ply written according to their instructions. Mr Hannah I think we ought to pass a vote of censure upon Mr Lumley. (Laughter.) He has told an abominable lie, and nothing else. Mr Morris Have we got the minutes of the meeting where the resolution was' passed? The Clerk read the minutes of the meeting held on the 18th of August, when the original resolution re the estimates was passed. The estimates were discussed on the 13th of Septem- ber, and adjourned to a meeting held on the 22nd of September. On the 25th the committee met on the road, and he was authorised to send the letter referred to. Mr Hannah And it was afterwards confirmed in this room. The Clerk: Yes, sir. Mr Pierce Davies Cannot we pass a resolu- tion saying that we have full confidence in our clerk, and confirm the letter he wrote to the Council? I move a motion to that effect. Mr Pierce said it was unfortunate that the County Council had taken such a step. Every member of that Council had strained every nerve to avoid saying and doing anything which might create friction with the county authority, and, when they adopted the resolution suggesting a conference of surveyors, it was done with the sole purpose of coming to an amicable under- standing. A personal interview did more good than scores of letters, and upon that principle they acted. The result, uowever, had been dis- astrous from one point of view, and all through two members. It was, for one thing, a gross insult to the Council, as well as to the clerk, to say that he acted without authority. Mr Crabbe never had, to his knowledge, acted without the authority of his Council, and he would never think of doing so. The only thing to do was to fight the County Council with their own wea- t, pons, and treat them as they had treated that Council up to now. Their attitude towards Mr Lumley and his fellow-members had been fair and square. But, in return, they had treated the members of that Council as if they were rogues and vagabonds. (Laughter.) They had already been on their trial in the Town Hall, and he wished the verdict of that arbitration had been in their hands that evening. If it had, they could have said a great deal more on the subject. He could not understand Mr Lum- ley's attitude at all. He appeared to act out of spite and do things which were not worthy of a gentleman. Men like him were nothing but obstructionists and creators of discord. He seconded the vote of confidence in the clerk. They ought to pass a vote condemning the County Council for what they had done. Mr George Perkins said he had the authority of one who was present at the County Council meeting for saying that only the proposer and seconder of the amendment spoke, and then it was put to the meeting. He noticed that Mr David Jones, of Llanrwst, seconded the amend- ment. "He said that they had had serious differ- ences with the Abergtele Council, which had culminated in an inquiry. Let them submit their proposals to the Main Roads Committee in writing." Their proposals were submitted in | writing. He (Mr Peikins) sat next to Mr Davd Jones at the inquiry, and the latter said that he had every sympathy with Abergele, because he believed that that part of the coast had not had fair treatment with other parts of Denbighshire. After saying that, he actually gets up and seconds an amendment which had no connec- tion with him at all. The Chairman said he was surprised, after hearing what Mr David Jones said at the in. quiry, to see that he was going against them. If the County Council looked after the business of the county, instead of dabbling with politics they would do better. It was more like a House of Commons than a Council. (Laughter.) Mr Morris thought it would be better to defer the matter until they had heard officially from the County Council. When the clerk received an official report, they could act upon it. Mr George Perkins said Mr Morris's sugges. 1 -1 tion was a good one, if they were sure of receiv- ing, a report. But he did not think the clerk would receive anything now, because it was a fortnight since the meeting was held. It would look very funny if they took no action or notice of the matter at that meeting. It would not be fair to Mr Crabbe. The statements made by Mr Lumley had been circulated all over North. Wales, and they should be refuted. The motion was then put to the meeting, and carried unanimously. The Clerk thanked the Council for passing the resolution. "You have been on your trial for honesty, and now Mr Lumley wants to put me on my trial." Pentremawr Improvements. A discussion took place as to the desirability of proceeding with the improvement of Pentre- mawr-road pending the result of the arbitration, Mr Edward Williams remarking that if it went against them, they wouldn't have a penny towards the expenses, as they were alrealy over- drawn at the bank. Mr Perkins: Well, we shall have to take our coats off and set to ourselves. (Laughter.) It was decided to go on with the work.

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