The Montgomeryshire Express and Radnor Times

THE LAND COMMISSION. BALA. 1'fH Welsh Land Commissien sat ON Saturday. Ur W. B. M. Wynne, of Peniarth. wrote with re- -Hereuce to the evidence given at Towyn, stating that rihd witness, Mr W. Lloyd, was most certainly not seat my for political or religious reasons. As to ,the first, he pretended to be a Conservative, and pro- tmised to vote for him (Mr Wynne) in ISM. No game .wso over bred on or near his farm. Mr Lewis Hamphreys, who gave evidence as to the game, for- ,.ot to add that his rent had been permanently re- duced since he took the farm 12 £ per oent., in addition ■to btfin# drained for nothing. The farm was now 6SS, per annum cheaper than for fifty years past, 801. though house buildings and almost everything had ibetux rebuilt within twenty years. ft Henry Robertson, of Pale, Bala, said he was tho owner of an estate in the country of 2,500 acres. described the treatment his tenant had received, dfaowing that politics and religion were not considered, that the terms were the usual yearly tenancies, with ma additional services except paying rent. Witness's father died about five years ago, and the agent died jkhia Kpring, Since then there had been no agent. When. tenants had grievances they came to him, and M they could not agree they mutually selected an :Arbitrator. Permanent reductions amounting to 7t ■3pse oanfc. on the gross rental had been made in his and his time, and in addition there had been ary abatements of 10 per cent. from Septem- iMr, 1885. to March, 1889, again from September, IStl, to March, 1892, and 15 per cent. from Septem. ber 29, 1892, to the present time. Replying to Mr X2rovec, witness said that during 1891, £ 97 was paid •tot barley given to feed the pheasants, and in the tSAloving year he paid .£88. In the year first men- fimuJ there were no claims for game compensation, ,ad in the latter year the compensation for game Ittraws was £ 18. ACir Thom" Jones, county councillor, and farmer andbr the Earl of Dudley, gave general evidence as to the condition of tenant farmers and his experiences an a land valuer. Local rates, he said, had increased 20 per eent. in forty years. Cultivation was gener. good, but more land was laid down in pasture. Land at a high elevation was going out of cultiva- tes, end speedily returning to a natural state, 4lriog to the low price of corn, and the high price of labour. He considered the Board of Trade acted rly to that district when they allowed a higher Stoxiattsm of railway rates cn the line between hua. boa and Festiuiog than on other portions of the sys- tern. If any applications were made now for deduc- tions the applicants were met with the reply that the istas were within the scale. Mr John Williams, of 8, Tegid Place, Bala, gave s&rideuae with reference to the estate of Sir Edmund JBU"K, at Binas Mawddwy. About twenty-three c yecr* agowhen the Hirnant estate belonged to Mr Jtiehardson, notices were served on the tenants, Miteeu in number, and the estate was pat in the mar- frat. fcst was not sold. The landlord then tried to fatoe fche rent, but the tenants left. Three of the ,fgrm were let at increased rents, two of them to two Scotebml1. but the Scotchmen were not able to cou- 4tOtm long on the eatate. One of the three was let to a Welshman, but in the following September the W.a.tøna.n had notice to leave against his will, and whdft he did leave, in March, a Scotchman had the ■farm* Before the close of the following year the was sold to Sir Edmund Buckley, and then the :fa: were relet in many cases to the old tenants. JUoootihe time,the notices were given, the lease of his Wber's farm, Gwasfcadygroea, expired, and his "tent wA,-i raised from zC20 to .£60. When Sir Ed- ited Buskley bought the estate the relit of every form ass raised, the increase varying from 20 to 30 voor eestL He (witness) was a tenant of M&ethir, the teat ot which was first raised £ 45 to XA5, but after- ward* eeduced to .£60. After the passing of the AgtieaMor&l Holdings Act in 1875 the agent came eocmd fWd. compelled the tenants to sign a form waiving the advantages of the Act. The Scotchmen ,-who succeeded were unable to pay the rent Mr William Buckley, son of, and agent to, Sir E. Buckley, denied that, to his knowledge, the rents ,.Ver,e mereased by hia father when he bought the .Awt4i,to in 1870 or 1872. But he admitted that the raai* were raised by Mr Bichardson, the former pro- prietor, and that farms were vacant. Two farilb '■weem Jet to Scotchman, but he believed they left, not an account of the rent, but because they did not un. Jwsfatwi the language and did not find things In reply tj the Chairman, witness said in S7J tiie seat of one farm, Maes y Fallen, was £ 300, sod it kgA since been reduced to X205, and then to JtHe, however, considered that the 1870 rents «r«re £ ««r, the Wan's put their heads together ILnd. brought the rents ridiculously low. Mr Hubert Wynne, farmer, Clegirganal, Betlws, fleM tifst he and lu; Laebthcrs had been tenants of ttw fa-rus under the Jesus College, Oxford, estate, for ame Cant-rations. It was a remote hill farm, difli- -1t of sccoss. His rent had been raised at various ■fxtnuA itEer his predecessors had gotse to expense iu -tht way of improving the place by drying the land or ^jgc'aimi?'#r uncultivated land. Robert Roberts, Hengaerisaf, Llanrybettws, Cor- ..tn. C&ve evidence as to the Rhug estate, belonging it6 the C. H. Wynn. No compensation was paid rfor dams-ge done by fallen trees. He complained tW the agreement contained many oppressive {trae the effect of which was that they prohibited iteumto troia farming in so husbandmanlike a manner AUtthey otherwise would. The clauses complained of i the right to enter to cut timber without s&e4u.te compensation, the preservation of game by 4% iga&crd, the obligation placed upon tenants to tile buildings, fences, gates, &c., in repair, to heep dog* for the landland, to carry coals, &c., to the fattdhjtas residence. Throughout his district rents for the iBibt forty years had been raised from 35 to 45 PW daAt, though during the last ten years there had i&eos redcc-tions on most farms, with temporary a..t!\t\ r ii git g from 5 to 15 per cent. Siseauaed by Mr Richard Jones, witness complained 4h«t ia hi- lii^aer s case his rent had been raised on bØ aWN improvements He could not say whether it wse & tsai that Mr Wynn, of Rhug, had refused a 4*rm ta the eon of a former Nonconformist tenant nd ifrtA given it to a Churchman who failed to pay the t) but. that was the impression in the district. 3 £ x"W." £ ■ Eowlands, Penllyn, epokeof his holding, own property, and also to the general (SOtwlie^n of agriculture in his district. He said go(,d JafcfMJiW* vern very scarce, and they were obliged to §39 sottfoti? with young and inexperienced men. He fI.td tha* 1<> e who bad bought their farms and b,. d 4Jtid to pa.y mortgage interest were worse off thau rtea*at*. He thoug ht there should be legislation to eu- '^oarig»asd aid peasant proprietors, and to facilitate of is.nd; also to enable owners of holdings to t-bay iha mountain right and to compulsorily allot «oelos« the shespwalks. A Land Court by some ArbUMtion tribunal was the only remedy for present .etmttlMUtii, and would be even better for landlords. fl^gAi^tuent should lend money at reasonable m- tfasKefctaeaabie tenant farmers to buy their farms, iirit irfiTA relieve those be had already mentioned as *&ling Wu gh t their farms at too dear a price from losing their homes. He also felt that tithes •a&cttfd eQ to the relief of rates, as they at present asii keep a certain class in luxury at the ex- «f fche agricultural community. He thought &*sbeepwalk6 should be enclosed, to prevent quar- ggi* SCBtfBg farmers, which Mr T. E. Ellis did not ad- "^Auaeenng Mr Richard Jones, Mr Rowlands said ••flw eeseeqaence of tbe commons being unenclosed was r breed of sheep, owing to their being driven we: a wide area and harassed on account of ib* intermingling of flocks. JtfciSiilart, agent for the Countess de Morella, re- ta widfnee with reference to the estate at jLm( denying that any of the clauses in the a«ree- *»ere oppreesive or that renta had been de- mf in advance, except in the last six months of No preference to Churchmen or Noncon- 4&TVSb&tK was given on the estate. The Countess had to join in any water scheme for Llangwril, ,-SftoviMd others interested did so. The estate con- at 1.500 acres, and the rental was £ 1,000, tn twenty years the Countess had spent on im- ptlI ,£S,7W, J(r .ur¡tkes Jones repeated his assertions as to the £ Ottttl6inta made against the estate. Mr Prtee, of Rhiwlas, referring to the statement of ■SFR Y. E. Ellis, M.P., that there were no public vil- b.&U institutes, or libraries, in that district of 0. at, id the allegation was not accurate. He felt S»3od. ou public gi ounds, to say that he was a mem t&c of public reading-room in Bala. There were rsslit;g-roonie.,at Coiwen, at Maentwrog, at Dol- at Llanbedr. gftT. 15. Elli?, M,P., said that he referred not to th,s tow" of the county, but to the villages. He rfttatmi »«: his bvidenco the fact that in Merioneth a year was pijid as rent, not a penny of •vhieb ttrM C3lleotod for a house in a town. He con- é that such accommodation a-t there was hHd tPct\ provided by the voluntary effort of the CMi>oE«, cad that it was in every reapeit inadequate, jjfc b«ld that the conditions in this union were prac- .43&ly epical of Nurtli Wales. LLANGEFNI. '1"68 Land Commission sat on Tuesday. Mr J. Moreton Pri'chard, Gore, Holyhead, eaid he elf" ft a >uuty ma.istrate, a barrister-at-law, and fhis own .freehold of 100 acrss. He did not wieti to apeak as an agricaltnriat, a birris- ft~ ag a ?*agisteate, but because, having been a bank i'i the county lor nearly 20 years, he had had of knowinjpr the exact position of far- JSSSlTb* h'td no idea of appearing before the com- mission till he saw the evidence of Mr Bryn Robert!' which, he thought, would have a disastrous tendency upon the farmers in Anglesea and other counties, and 10 he decided to come forward and give the real state of things. Mr Bryn Roberts, he thought stated it would be a very good thing if the landlords who were now chiefly Conservatives and Churchmen, could by any means be ehanged, so that there would be more Nonconformists and Liberals more in touch with the feelings of the community. Mr Roberts had held that the latter would make better landlords. Witnes's idea, however, which he was sure all the farmers in the room would say was correct, was that such a change would be one of the most disastrous things that could possibly happen to the country. To place the case before the commission, he would divide the landlords of Anglesea into two classes. In Class A he would put 15 or 20 owners who had three fourths of the island, and were, he believed, Churchmen and Church- women, and Conservatives, every one of them. Class B consisted of 200 to 300 persons, although Mr Bryn Roberts said they were very few, who were comparatively small owners. These were almost all, Nonconformists and Liberals. The distinguishing feature of Class A was that they charged 75 per cent. less rent than Class B. It would be a disastrous thing to increase the number of Class B, or Noncon- formists and Liberal landowners, which the agitators desired. He had always thought that the Welsh race were rather religiously inclined; but he gathered from the speeches of Mr Tom Ellis and Mr Bryn Roberts that they were a spiteful race and although they were not injured by these landlords 30 years ago, still the supposed injuries, which could not now be investigated because they were too old, rankled in the minds of the farmers. He personally had not come acroes instances of the kind. Much had been said before the Commissioners as te whelher a land court would be a good thing or not. It depended in the first place what a land court would do. The sup- position was that they would endeavour to find a fair rent for the farmers. In law they knew of no fair value except the real market value, and if the coart arrived at the real market value, of course the effect would be disastrous to the existing tenants, and es- pecially to the tenants of Class A. It would be ab- solately ruin.us to Class B landlords. lhe agitation going on was the right thing to prevent people like himself from ever having anything to do with them. The result of the doctrine that landlords should pro- vide cottages and repair them and give the benefit of them to the farmers would be that there would be no cottages. In fact, this was the reason why cottages had been demolished in scores. He considered the present state of the tenantry of Anglesea was on the whole prosperous. They would be very much as. tonished if he told them the total amount of the de- posits of tenant farmers of the island. He deplored the depopulation of the villages, and in this connec- tion he would like to say that it was a mistaken policy to try to remove public-houses before some- thing had been established to take their places. As a temperance man he deplored drunkenness, but it would be a misfortune to shut up even the public. houses and compel the labourers to spend their nights behind the hedges in the mud. Lady Reade, as a temperance reformer, shut up two of the three public-houses in a village on her estate, with the re- sult that the remaining houtle did more businasn than had been done previously by the three. Then Lady Reade built a coffee-hoase, which had been very sue. cessful. He thought the erection of public halts and libraries, etc., should be in the hands of the cqjinty councils. In answer to Mr F. Ll. Jones, witness said he was favourable to a land purchase scheme for Wales, on the same lines as the Irish Acts. Mr John Thomas, Tywian, formerly a tenant of Sir Richard Bulkeley, complained that when he pur. chased his own larm last March for Y.2,800 no con- sideration was given in respect of over X2,000 be had expended on improvements. He admitted that the improvements were effected withouu the consent cf the landlord, but at the same time, he knew what was going on. Richard Hughes, of Cefn Mawr, considered that the poor rate as levied at present was very unfair. These rates fell entirely upon ttnant farmers, landed proprietors, owners and occupiers of houses. Though an ardent free trader himself, he considered free trade had made the calling of agriculture unprofit- able, while on the other hand it had conferred untold blessing upon tha rest of the community. Mr Oven Williams, Cacrdedog Ucha, belonging to the Bodfaen estate, said his ancestors had occupied the farm for 200 years. He had in bis possession re- ceipts showing the lent 160 years ago was .£4. It was marshy and unproductive land, and his ancestors had diaiued it. He (witness) had drained a thousand roods during tke last fifteen years, at a cost of JB150, for which he was never allowed a penny by his lard. lord, nor had he received any compensation for building a largo number of walls around the fields. His landlord's agent induced him to build a new house on the farm at a cost of .£300, the agent pro. mising that the rent ib -ouianbt be advanced, and that compensation should be paid him if the place was sold. He carried out these improvements, his land- lord allowing him a sum of £ 9(5. Witness also spent XIOU on outbuildings, so that during the last 14 years he had spent over X500 on about 50 acres of land, trusting that he would receive justice at the hand of his landlord as promised. Two years after he had finished the house he received a letter from the sub-agent, stating that the place was on sale, and that the price was 22,000, or ..£40 per acre. Witness had spent so much on the place that he purchased it at the price rather than lose his holding. Mr Hugh Pritchard, Minfford Llangaffo, spoke of his holding once forming part of Craigydon estate, being purchased by him at a sale for R700. Scores of pounds of his money had gone to improve the farm. One had to pay for these improvements again in the purchase money. Mr Owen Griffith, Bodfarig Tregaian, said he oc- cupied land under Major Lloyd, Plastregaian, and Mrs Jones-Parry, Carnarvon, and was sub-agent foi both estates. Politics, religion, or language made no difference, and no service was exacted from tenants beyond the payment of rent. Abatements of 10 per cent. had been granted every year since 1884. Con- solidation of farms was distinctly injurious. Mr Richard Owen, of Tyddyn Hir, Gaerwen, said that his father occupied a 60-acre farm. The House of Commons knew but little about Wales, its inhabi- tants, or their troubles, and possibly cared less. He knew of several of his relatives who had suffered severely from different agents. Twenty-five years ago there were not many clergy in the oountry, and they were asleep. The question, "That sort of clergy did not trouble you?" was put to the witness, who said the clergy were sleeping, and left the farmers alone, but it was quite different now. Curates were now being stuck everywhere about the country. In his younger days there were no congregations to be seen in the churches, only the parson, the curate, and the sexton (laughter). There was an agent on Lord Bostou's estate in 1819 who was a curse to the country. Two of the witness's uncles had to leave a farm because they could not have X100 to give the agent. It was the saying in the district that no one could ever get a farm in those days until he made a present of .£100 to the agent. Mr Vincent inquired the name of the agent witness spoke of as having been a curse to Wales. Witness: His name is rotten (great laughter). I told you so, but will give* you. It was Haine. Lord Boston was away from tire estate for a long time— about 30 years-but he was informed about the agent, and then the agent was sent, as was Judas, to his own place (laughter). The Chairman: Mr Owen Wynne aska you where that agent now is ? The Witness Well, in his own place, my lord, now (much laughter). The Welsh Land Commission met again on Wed- nesday at Llangefni to resume the hearing of evi- dence for the county of Anglesey. Lord Carrington rejoined his colleagues, and presided over the pro- ceedings. Mr Thomas Pritchard was the first witness exam. ined. He was described as a solicitor, and also the agent of Sir George Meyrick's Bodorgan estate and other properties in the district. The rights of the common were vested in the tenants of the manor, but were mostly exercised by the cottagers. The popular impression was that the commons belonged to the public at large, and that the general public had rights over them. But that was an error. The com- mons were a great drawback to the adjoining farms, because sheep crowded on toe waste and naii-fed broke through the fences and trespassed on the farms. Assuming every one should contribute to the taxation according to his means, the property tax schedule A should be raised. He calculated that a farmer paid nearly six times as much as a doctor having the same income. There was no inducement for labourers to take small iarms because they got X40 a year as labourers and paid no rates, while on a small holding they would probably have about the same income and have to pay £ 5 a year. in rates, thus starving them- selves and working harder to pay taxation. It did not pay to send vegetable prodnce even to Bangor. Railway rates were very high. The oompanies en- couraged cattle dealers, but would not encourage the farmers. Labourers were better off than farmera, except when in houses of accommodation. The itons of large farmers beoime professional men to a can. sidorable extent, and many of the smaller tenants' and labourers' sons went to tht towns. Most of the as-aistants in the large drapery establishments in London, he was told, were Welshmen. The de- pression began in 1883, first caused by the bad season and then came the foreign competition. Foreign stock and corn paid no taxation, whereas home produce was very much overburdened with local rates. Labour was dearer, and strikes acted more adversely upon farmers and owners than upln the labourers. He had only the usual remedy to suggest, namely, the opening up of new markets, which would take mJonufaotared gosda and so fain the purchasing power of the towns. He thought that taxation ought to be revised as he had already suggested, making personalty pay its proper share. He did not go in for protection in any way; but it seemed to be quite suicidal to handicap our own pro- duce. He thought he was right in saying that a bul- lock three years old that sold for X20 had £ 2 to X2 10s paid on it im rates, &c., or 11 per cent, while in America the taxation per head of cattle was only about 1 per cent. He thought there should be some taxation on British ships to help to pay for the navy and relieve the land. The relations between tenants and their landlords were as a rule very friendly, es. pecially in the case of the old families. But such papers as the Batter, the Genedl, and the Celt had done all they could to mike bad feeling by painting the landlords as villains of the deepest dye. He put in a few specimens with translations. By Mr Griffiths: There were sales two years ago, and the tenants were paid large sums of money com- pensation for improvements. The system throughout Anglesey as to valuation was that the outgoing ten- ant's valuer valued too high and the incoming ten- ant's representative too low. Then they appointed an arbitrator, and after drinking a bottle or two of whisky they split the difference (laughter). Mr Griffiths Are their no teetotal umpires P (laughter). I have no doubt there are, but I do not think they are getting much custom. Professor Rhys Who produces the whisky ? (laugh- I ter). Oh, the outgoing tenant. It is his interest to I get as much as he can (laughter). The valuation is held in his house By Mr. Griffiths: He had known of land being sold at seventy yearn' purchase. He oonld only acoonnt for that by Baying the rent was very low. Tenants paid insurance premiums on their farm buildings in conjunction with their landlords, and this induced them to be more careful. After referring to the agricultural experiments which had taken place in the country, the locale of which the Commieeioners will probably visit, witness, in reply to Mr Grove, said that cottages were allowed to fall into ruin for want of tenants, as the population was decreas- ing. Mr Grove examined the witness as to the railway rates, and received the answer that witness had been charged 19s each for bringing rams from Shrews- bury. Mr Grove: What is the legal charge?—Witness could not state that, but had no doubt the charge was legal. Mr Grove I have a small book here which I have referred to before, and the press have often noted it in a rather facetious manner. In this book the Board of trade give the actual rates that can be charged. It can be obtained for one shilling. They can charge you three farthings per mile. Witness These are sheep bought at Chester show, and they charge something extra for taking them from the show ground to the station. Mr Grove: it appears to me to be a most unreason- able charge, and as far as I can see, far above the maximum power. Witness said that a ram was differently charged perhaps from a sheep. Professor Rhys questioned witness as to the cost of building cottages, and pointed out that the Labour Commission's report contained evidence to the effect that cottages could be built for .£50. Witness said no doubt they conld, but he would not like his own labourers to live in cottages built at that price. His own cottages contained four rooms. Speaking of the cottages in Aberffraw, witness said it was diffcult to keep them in sanitary order because the tenants, who would keep ducks, made small duck ponds in the floor to feed the young ones in (laughter). Professor Rhys But supposing they had boarded floors, they could not make duck ponds then ? Witness They would make holes in the floor, I suppose. The duck pond is put in the house because the neighbours would steal the ducks if they were left outside. So they shut them up in the night in the houso. I am talking facts now. Professor Rtjys Supposing there was a proper place outside to shut them in r Witness: There is no room for such buildings in the town. Professor Rhys Then what about the police reu- lations ? I suppose you contribute towards the ex- penses of the police? Witness: We do pay very highly for the police. Professor Rhys Does the policeman come round r Witness: Yes, and if he does he gets a black eye and rnns a way. Professor Rhys: And this all happens in the royal village of Aberffcaw. Witness Where Prince Llewellyn once was sell- ing" (laughter). Mr E. J. Griffith asked, in view of the witneeii's statement that he had never attempted to induce a tenant to attecd a political meeting or interfere with their politics, whether the following letter was not, written by him November 7,1885.—Dear sir,—I know you were a Liberal, but you were always a very good friend and upholder of liberty and religion, whioh I think are in very serious danger from Mr Chamberlain-(Isughter),sud I am glad to hear from John Hughes. I was not wrong. Can you attend a public meeting at Aberffraw, of which notice will be given, to support Captain Rayner, and say a few words as to land, &c. ?—Yours truly.—Thomas Pritebard.-To Mr Samnel Owen (applause). The Chairman called for order, and said that he would have the court cleared if there were demonstra- tions one way or the other Witness said he had used no undue influence. Mr Owen did not go to the meeting. He did not think that letter interfered with his politics. Captain Rayner was the Conservative candidate. Mr David Owen, solicitor, Bangor, gave lengthy evidence on land tenure, and with reference to the relationship between landlord and tenant. He had been brought up a farmer and had acted as solicitor to tenants in ciiies of disputes. He was convinced that if greater security for capital and labour were given and more freedom of cultivation the land in Anglesey could be made to produce twice the quantity it does now. There had been vast improvements during the last thirty or forty years. The lent roll of Anglesey had been more than doubled since 1815, when it was returned at £ 81,000. In 1890 it was X184,897, though unfortunately this rent roll had bt-en increased at the expense of the tenants princi- pally. He did not think that during that period all the landlords of Anglesey put together had spent XIOO,000 on purely ayricultural lald. In Anglesey most of the Crown property had been disposed of to private owners, and that at nominal prices. Rents were always fixed by the landlord or bis agent according to their own goodwill, and the tenant had either to accept the landlord's rental or leave. Some large farms were let at very fair rentals. In one case in which witness was concerned the tenant offered to refer a dispute as to advance in rent to arbitration and pay the costs, but the offer was refused, and tte tenant bad to leave. In the district in which he had been brought up there seemed to be a healthy com- petition in farming, but the landlords took advantage of every improvement made by tenants to raise the rents, with the result that farming in that district was almost paralysed. Adjoining witness's old home was a farm ctlled Bodsuran, which until recently belonged to General Owen Wiiliams, formerly of Craigydon, but now of Great Marlow. It measured 260 acres, and was occupied for nearly forty years by the late Samuel Owen as tenant at a rent of .£170, which was considered high. He told witness many a time that he had spent from X2,000 to X2,500 on per- manent improvements. Jnst when he got the farm into a good condition the landlord advanced the rent by t40 a year, and not satisfied with that, in two years afterwards he made another advaECe of .£70, wholly on the tenant's own improvements. Besides, the landlord compelled the tenant to take a lease for fourteen years or leave the farm. Before the expira- tion of the lease the farm was sold. and there was not tho slightest doubt the tenant had to pay from £ 2,000 to X2,500 for improvements which he himself had executed. Cases such as these had had the effect of paralysing good farming in the district. These oases illustrated the repeated advances which had baen made on farms held by industrious tenants, while the rent of his neighbour who never tried to improve bis farm was allowed to remain. He did not believe his countrymen would iike to see the landlords robbed of their rightful property. It would be mani- festly unfair to deprive anyone of property acquired in a perfectly legitimate manner or because the law under which he acquired that property was defective. But in his own opiuion it was even more monstrous to tiiinx tnali any person could enricn nimseu or nis creditors by simply confiscating the whole of a man's labour and energy, and putting improvements by a strugg iag tenant up to sale by auction to he fold as his own property. He did not believe in free sale of tenancies. As a rule Welsh farmers wanted fair con- ditions of tenancy and secarity for improvements not for the purpose of selling their rights but in order to secure their homes and to go on improv.ng them. Speaking of remedies, he said that protection in any shape or form was quite out of the question. Com- petition from foreign markets was becoming more and mora keen, but this could not effect the home market except aa to price. It was all the same to a farmer whether prices were high or low if rents were fair. Abatements depending upon generosity were bad in principal because they tended to take away the independence of the farmer. There ought to be a sliding soale for rent on the principle of the tithe commutation. The average prices of various farm produce might rule the scale. The landlord would thus benefit on an improved market, and the tenant on a falling market. Replying to Mr O. Slaney Wynne, witness said that, though a solicitor and the son of a tenant farmer, he had never received a penny from the farm towards qualifying. After his father's death and before the fuoeral the then agent went to his mother and said, You are bringing up your eldest son as a doctor; so you can afford to pay more rent," although the agent knew very well that his brother had means of his own and did not need help from the farm. The day after the funeral the notice to quit came (sensation). There was a good deal of hesitation on the p&rt of tenants to give evidence before the Commission, and this was due more to fear of the agents than of the landlords. Lord Stanley of Alderley, who, being somewhat deaf, was allowed to read through his statement, said that he owned about thirty parishes in Anglesey. He had spent about twice as much money upon the houses of tenants who did not speak a word of Eng- lish as upon the houses of those who did. He had seen in the newspapers that agents had been attacked and stated to be a curse to the country, but he found that the agent who had charge of the estate for six- teen years before he (witness) succeeded to the pro- perty had spent on outbuildings and improvements nearly as much as witness had done in the succeeding years. From 1852 to 1871, during the t;me when an agent had charge of the estate in witness's father's time, £3,086 was spent in improvements. All wit- necs's rents were based on the tenants making their own repairs. In Cheshire an estate carpenter went about doing this work, but in a scattered estate like those in Anglesey this was not convenient. As far as witness knew gamekeepers were very friendly with the tenants. He considered the depression was caused by free American importations, and the men who chitfly suffered were working men in town and country. He bad always thought that tenants were very friendly with their landlords. He felt inclined to say that tenants were most afraid of their preachers (laughter). Questions by Mr E. J. Griffith and others were theu put to the witness, who in reply to one attri- buted the prosperity which folio wed Free Trade not to the fiscal change, but to the steam boat and the steam engine. He had never given abatements of rent. He declined to do so on principle. He always granted permanent reduction in preference. The labourers as a role had 10. a week wages as pocket money. Of course a labourer had nothing to provide out of this but his clothing. Pocket money was marely a figure of speech. He would not say 10d was too much, but it was a good deal more than labourers were formerly paid. Mr E. J. Griffith: Dun't you think a labourer ought to buy a book occasionally and contribute to- wards his chapel? Lord Stanley: Certain'y, buy books, but I woald not recommend them to buy the Gttitdl, and if they went to chnrch they would have to pay nothing (aughtel). Several other questions were put from Mr E. J. Griffith. His Lordship having answered them, re- marked sotto voce that they seemed to him to be most extraordinary questions, evidently put by some med- dling outsiders who knew nothing about it. He was landowner in England as well as in Anglesey, and he knew of no special reasons why Wales more than England should have a land court. In fact rents were much lower in Wales. The Welsh Land Commissioners continued their inquiry, on Thursday, in the Town Hall, Llangefni. Lord Carrington presided, supported by Lord Kenyon, Sir J. D. Llewellyn, Professor Rhys. Mr Edward Grove, Mr Richard Jones, and Mr J. M. Griffith. Mr Thomas Pritchard was called at the opening of the proceedings to Livii rebutting evidence in regard to various statements madeon the previous day by Mr David Owen. no first put in Lae original papers from wbich he submiti.ed extracts, and he gave some statistics as to illegitimacy in answer to a question from Professor Rhys. He said that from 1879 to 1888 the average number of illegitimate children in England was 48, and in North Wales it was 69. The average per thousand iu Anglesey for the years 1884 to 1888 was 89, while in 1842 the average per thou- sand was 78. Professor Rhys asked whether this state of things was dae to the accommodation provided for agri- cultural, servants. The witness said it quite beat him to give the reason, when he compared the figures for 1842 with 1883. He believed the servants slept in the out- houses in 1842, and that the accommodation was worse than now. Mr E. J. Griffiths Is it customary at rent dinners for the landlord's agent to speak on politics to the tenants?~It is not, my Lord; but if the tenants speak on politics to the agent it would be rude not to reply.-(laughter). At the conclusion of the evidence of Mr Pritchard, the Chairman said: The Commissioners express a strong recommendation that agreements in all cases should be printed in Welsh, and that copies should be invariably given to the tenants (applause). Mr Pritchard said the agents would ba very glad to do all they could to carry out the wishes of the Commission. But it would be a great advantage if, as was the case the other day in regard to the treaty with Siam. it should lie distinctly understood that in cases of dispute the English copy should be the legal one. The Chairman said that point weuld be considered in preparing the report. Mr Pritchard said he knew there had bcon great dispute about the meaning of some Welsh words. The Chairman said the Commission did not bind themselves to anything, but they would consider the matter in the report. Mr Griffith J. Roberts, of Trefarthen. ArsrleEev. also gave rebutting evidence with reference to the statement made by his tenant John Williams, of Cromlech, at Tuesday's sitting. Mr Williams had stated: "The landlord positively declined to grant any reduction. I gave notice to leave, and subse- quently the landlord let the farm to another tenant at .£50 lees rent than I paid. The landlord said I was leaving the farm in a bad condition, but my neighbours will testify that I greatly improved the holding." Mr Roberts declared that Williams was not a practical farmer, he having spent the major pertion of his life as a shopkeeper, and he made no secret of giving up the farm. Had he betn a good tenant and unJerstllod his business as farmer, he vwituess) should have granted the same reduction te him as he had granted to the present tenant. Mr Samuel Roberts, a tenant on the estate of the Rev J. Williams-Meyrick. rector of Beaumaris, said it was a general complaint among the Rector's tenants that the rents were too high. Some tenants paid as much as Szl per acre. No abatement had been given during times of depression, and nothing was allowed by the landlord towards co-t of build- ings, draining, or fencing. Witness held 271 acres, for which he paid '£;7 rent, which he coss:cicrc 1 op- pressive and unjust. He had appealed several times for a reduction, but to no purpose. Tbe ouly I emedy to prevent the oppression and inJustioe of land- lordism in Wales was the establishment of a Land Court. Examined by Lord Kenyon, witness said his cloth- weaving business was not as gocd as it used to be. The English people could turn out cloth cheaper than he could. Lord Kenyon You ought to advertise Welsh cloth more. I am very fond of it; I am wearing it now (laughter). Mr Owen Williams, Tyoybuarlh, on the glebe of the Vicar of Llanfnirisgaer, complained of losing his holding of Tymawr, on to Baronhill estate, because he declined to support the Conservative candidate for Anglesey at the election of 1874, and (,f the en- closure by the late Mr Bulkeley Hughes, M.P., of a oommon at Llanfechell. Citing cases ot alleged hard- ship, witness referred to th3 ftrm of Tym iwr, Llan- fechell, belonging to the rectory of L'anbadrig. The tenant died, and the widow wanted some relatives to join in the farm with her. The recror refused, and served her with notices to quit. The tenmcs on Sir Richard Bulkeley's estate had lost thousands of pounds by not rec iviug compensation for improve- ments when the land was sold during the last fe-r years. The vendors took cre to insert in tlau condi- tions of sale a clause by which the purchaser became liable for any claim that might be proved against Sir Richard, which clause was unjust to- wards both purchaser and tenant. He men- tioned some insances in support of his statement, Labourers could not manage plots larger than five to ten acres without giving all their tiwe to them. Farms of 40 to 10Q acres were the best tize for small farmers. His view of the method of giving security of tenure was that they should adopt Mr Bryn Roberts's bill, so that on the death of the tenant the relatives should have the farm under a lea^o. The tenants, according to tha enstom of Antrieiey, would erect the whole of the new buildings. Thii landiorde only supplied materials to yearly tenants. By Mr R Jones Witness did not with farmers to have power to tike produce off the farm without bringing in some equivalent, such as manure. II hay could nob be disposed of for an equivalent in manure, as might be the case near a to Vn, the hay should be used on the firm. If so used, it would be an advantage to the farmer. To Mr Vincent: Witness had purchased Fferm Uella from Sir Richard Bulkoley. He bad asked John Jones, the tenant to pay an addiii'-nal rent of .£70, because the tenant was not a good faimi r, and the cost of the buildings would fail on witness; while if John Jones remainei, the buildings would soon be in a bad state of repair. In consequence of John Jones being unable to find sureties he had to leave. He could not say whether John Jor;e3 was a Conservative or not. Hia present tenncfc had no agreement. Do you accuso Canon Williams of conspiring with the curate to deceive you and your father to obtain a higher rent for your farm ?-Yes. Have ybu a strong objection to the Church?—Not at all to the Church, but I have an objection to pay- ing for a Church I do not belong to (load applause). By Mr Ellis Jones Griffith: The permission to destroy ground game on the Tregain estate was not given till the Commission was appointed and after the the visit to Anglesey was determined upon. Mr Owen Morris, of Penybryn, a member of the Anglesey County Coanoil and of tin Board of Guardians for th« Holyhead Union, gave evidence as to the inequality of rents in the Holyhead Union. He was of opinion that the rateable value was a fair basis for fixing the rent. Replying to Mr Richard Jones, witness said the rates were not fixed according to the rent. The rents were higher than the rateable value, generally 10 per cent. According to the rateable value as it was at present, the rents were quite high enough, but he gave a number of farms in which the rateable value was less than half the rents. It would answer the purpose to fix the rents in a similar manner as the rateable value was fixed by an inspection of each field. The rents were not arranged systematically but the rates were. Mr. David Williams, Trefro, Aberffraw, a tenant on Sir George Mey rick's estate, declared there was no better or emypathetic landlord in Wales than Sir George Meyrick, whose agent was a Welshman, trained for the profession. A few years ago Sir George asked his tenants to consider their agree- ments and suggest alterations, but as the penal clauses were never enforced the tenants left matters as they were. The least clue of a farm becomirg vacant on the estate brought shoats of applications for it under any conditions, and should the acreage of the estate be double what it was the landlord would have no difficulty in letting his farms. The greatest land agitators were the first to take farms and give high rents for them. Permanent reductions were nst granted owing to the absurd thi-st for rarms, and that by farmers themselves and those who had earned a little profit in trade. He con- sidered that some of the clauses in the agreement were- objectionable and required revision. He was no advocate of a land court, believing it would create a great gulf between landlord and tenant. If there were a court at all its function should be to stop this unreasonable grabbing for land. The majority of landlords were always ready to meet their tenants. The Commissioners found it necessary, in order to cope with the large number of witnesses to be examined, to divide themselves into two sections, the second court, presided over by Lord Kenyon, being utilised for the examination of Welsh wit- nesses. Mr R. Norman Davies, of Carnarvon, gave rebut- ting evidence on the statement of Mr Thomas Ed- wards, of Gwynfaes, before the Commissioners at Carnarvon. Thomas Edwards stated that the law had allowed Sir Love Jones Parry and Mr Williams to take from his pocket in effect .£800, and further that he (Edwards) did not get a penny for improve- ments." Witness said this was not the fact. Mr Thomas Edwards (recalled) produced a number of letters between the parties, and stated that he did not receive money for improvents but ss a bonus to go out of the farm. It was to induce him to go out peaceably at the end of the tenancy. Mr E. K. Lenthall, of the Belmont estate, near Llanrwst, gave rebuttin? evidence in regard to the statements of Mr John Pritchard. He denied that tie rabbits on his farm caused damage, or that there wera workmen's cottages in ruins. Mr W. M. Preston, agent to Sir Richard Williams Bulkeley and Lady Neave, gave evidence as to the two estates. The Baron Hill estate (Sir R. Bulke- ley's) contained about 25,000 acres, and Lady Neave's about 5,000. On bo,h estates garden allotments were let. He did not know the politics of three of the largest tenants. There had been a good number of sales on Sir R. Bulkeley's estate, and at the last two sales all the tentants had the first refusal of their farms by private treaty. There had been no sales on the L'ysduias estate. The r -lations between landowners and tenants on tha two estates were per- fectly friendly. To Professor Rhys There was no Welsh versicn of the agreements, but the terms were always ex- plained in the Welsh tongue. Foreign competition told against the labourers as well as everybody else. P.,ofeezor Rhys We are pretty well agreed it tells against the farmer, but are you agreed as to the labourers? What about the prica of bread?—I shou'd say the price of corn being remunerative for farmers to grow it they necessarily employ less labour, and the men flock to the towns. I think the imposition of five to ten shillings a quarter of duty npon imported corn would be sufficient to make com- growkg prJfitable, when twice the number of men would be employed and the lot of town labourers would be improved. Mr Saiim -l Hughes, of Bodednyfed, Amlwch, the chairman of the Anglefey County Connsil, said that very few leases were granted or asked for, it being generally understood that wh, n leases expired, a they did in fourteen or twenty-one years-, a rise in the rents wou'd take place on the occupiers' own im- provements. Professor Rbys: I shou'd like your opi- im a@ tc) whether the foreign comp-titiol is better or werse for the labourers. I am rather shaky in my own mind about it ?—I should say there is no doubt about the competition being beneficial. Then you say the present position of labourers is better ? -Better than ever it was. I was inclined to think the same, but I have h-ard several witnesses lately who think otherviz-e.-All feed and clothing are cheaper now, and wapres are stilt high, although a little lower this jear than they have been recently. Replying to Mr J. E. Vincent, witness said his landlord was ins uncle (laughter.) Lord Kenyon Do you consider England a foreign country P-Ra-her (laughter.) Is Puffin Island a foreign country ? (laughter.)—It lies between, my lord (laughter.) To Mr John Hughes, witness said that Mr Richard Hughes and Mr Thomas Ellis, who had recently taken farms on the Llycdultis estate, were Noncon- formists, but when they found a ohance of getting the farms they began to go to church, aud now went to church and chapel alternately. County Alderman John Williams, of Pare Newydd, Llanerchymedd, submitted evidence as to the eafe of farms where the tenant- hnd spent much money to improve the holdings without receiving any compen- sation. The rent of his own h u e was gradually raised from -27 to ES4.