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NEWTOWN & LLANLLWCHAIARN LOC tL BOARD. FRIDAY.—Present: Captain F. Pryce-Jones (chair, man), Messrs G. H. Ellison, Cornelius Morgan, W. Francis, John Hughes, Henry Roberts, A. S. Cooke, Evan Ashton, Edward Jones, D. Lewis, J. Owen, W. Lewis, Thomas Jones, and David Owen; with Messrs W. Cooke (clerk), and R. W. Davies (cur- veyor). THE LOAN. On the motion of the Chairman, seconded by Mr Francis, a resolution was passed authorising Mr Richard Jones, the Board's treasurer, to receive the XI,OW loan. THE WATER QUESTION. STRONG COMMENTS. The Surveyor, at the instance of the Chairman, then read the following report:—" The Committee having had the Waterworks Company's letter under consideration, and before finally deciding upon the question of Waterworks charges, they wish to have the opinion of the Board on the means of flushing, whether they are prepared to adopt the system ot flushing the sewers by means of a water van, or to follow the same system as we have now. By the fol- lowing of the present system it will be necessary to renew the sluices in the tewer chambers at a cost of about X150. By the water cart system about half the quanuty now ulled will be necessary, and we are c undent that the flashing will be far more efficiently done." Mr ELliton said io had been requested to move the adoption of the report. As far as it was concerned they would find one particular limit with regard to the mode of flushing, that of course referred to the flushing tank. The Committee had gone into the matter very carefully, and had thought it wise to ask the opinion of the Board before framing a formal re- port, that they did get the opinion of members and their sanction to a certain mode of flushing. If the Board decided to have a tank or otherwise the Com- mittee would prepare a report upon it. The Chair- man had placed himself in communication with other towns where a tank was used, and in each case they had found the mode of flushing working effectively. Other members had also made enquiries with satis- factory results. Mr David Owen seconded. Referring to the new scheme he said it was a wonder, always after new movements came to the front and Rave satisfaction, that people had not seen it sooner. There was a time for all things, and there was a time for this. 1 hey were living to learn, and he thought this had been an important lesson to the Board to economise the water. The coat would be reduced, and a much smaller quantity of water would be more efficient than the large quantity they were now using. There was no doubt that the adoption of the scheme would save the Board going to the expense of X100 for re- pairing the sluices. Mr Henry Roberts expressed hia pleasure at the Board's report, and said he believed the plan would be more effective, and would be a great saving to the ratepayers. He had seen the system work satis- factorily in other towns. Mr Edward Jones asked whether the Board were proceeding in accordance with the notice on the agenda. The Board were now promulgating a new scheme, and no notice was placed on the agenda. The notice on the agenda was to settle the difference of the terms between the Waterworks Company and the Local Board. If they were going to have a new scheme for flushing ther« should be due notice given. The Chairman said the question had been deferred to please Mr Jones, and now he wished to do so again. Mr Edward Jones pointed out that the Board should deal with the terDII of the agreement, and if they could not come to a satisfactory resolution then they must come together and go in for another scheme. He said the discussion was out of order. The motion was then put and carried. Mr Ellison In order to perfect the scheme another resolution must be put before you, and that is that irrangements be made for the purchase cf a flushing tank. I think the Committee should be empowered to make the necessary arrangements. With regard to what Mr Edward Jones has said about the matter not being on the agenda, the water question means the whole question. The Committee mention that it will cost.9150 to put the sluices in order, which Mr Jones wants done, but be would consider that conroe ju-it as illegal—as the amount is not on the agenda— as the one in which we intend to purchase a tank, which will oost at most .£5). Mr W. Lewis seconded. Mr Hughes: Can we vote on this without due notice of motion P Mr David Owen asked what was the objection to the present cart. Why could not that be utilised for flushing pupposesP He believed that the water cart, after spending X5 upon it, could be used for flashing the sewers and watering the streets, unless it was too smalL The Chairman To be in perfect order, and under the circumstances that the Board is not perfectly unanimous, it is well that this should be brought forward on the agenda at another meeting. I am sorry we should be called upon to take this course, because in time gone by Committees have made re- commendations and expenses have been incurred, without the amouut of money being placed on the asrenda. I have never seen the actual amount pro- posed to be spent placed on the agenda, and I am ex- ceedingly sorry that this course should be taken, and I must ask Mr Ellison and Mr Lewis to postpone their motion until we can call a special meeting of the Board to confirm the resolution. Mr Edward Jones: I am sorry that this Board should commit themselves to an outlay of .£50. I think it would be far better in order to test the scheme to hire one of these carts; and then I am sure you will be convinced of its uselessness. Unless you put the sluices in perfect order it will be foolish to get a cart. I would not mind going to part of the expense myself, but you would be able to see the effect from the cart we have. The Chairman: We require a cart which will hold 450 gallons, 150 gallons more than our present cart will contain. Mr Edward Jones Do you mean to say that a new cart of 450 gallons will possess so much additional capacity as to flush the sewers ? It is childish to think of accepting such a thing. Mr David Owen. Perfectly so. Mr Edward Jones: It is childish. Mr David Owen Perfectly so. Mr Edward Jones I am surprised that this Board should sanction the expenditure of money for such a purpose. Mr Morgan proposed the appointment of a snail committee to ascertain the size and capacity of the old water cart to do the flushing. The Chairman said he proposed to say a few words as Chairman of the Board. The Waterworks ques- tion had been thrashed out to the very bottom. They had had both the consideration of the old oart and that of the new one under their consideration, aiui he need scarcely tell them that they had most substantial reasons for asking the Board to sanctiou the ordering of a new one, in preference to using the old eart. They had not gone into details because it would be a mistake to do so JDBt then, but be could assure every member of the Board that the Commit- tee had g'J¡¡e into the subject most minutely, and they had, to speak metaphorically, tons of information from other towns where the carts were in use. Under the new system they could do with 450 gallons at the outside, while under the old system it was necessary to use 3.000 gallons. Of c >urse it was to the interest of the Waterworks Company that the Board should use 3,000 gallons of water in preference to 450galions, and he cuuld quite understand why it should be wanted to put the sluices in order. He wished them t distinctly and clearly to understand that he had got in hit possession information respecting other towns as important as Newtown, where the new system was adopted Out of the number there were oniy two towns which flushed their sewers with 3 000 gallons of water, and one with a cart of 121 gallons but in every case it was working satisfactorily, and most efficient in towns where was used a cart of 400 or 450 gallons. They considered that the present eart, which would contain about 305 gallons, was not sufficient to flush the sewers of the town, but even if it were, he daresay it would do its work equal, at least, to the flushing which now taok place, but it would not do it efficiently. The Committor, there fore, ticked the Board that the small expenditure of £ 50 might be sanctioned to buy a cart than would flush the sewers amply. Continuing, the Chairman weuton to show that whatever the pressure of water the Company put on, the water had to run through a two aud a half inch hose, it Jost its force by going into a pipe twelve inches in diameter, whereas by the new system the water would run out of the cart through a six inch funnel, and the whole of the 450 gallons would go down the sewers at once. Mr Edward Jones At what pressure ? The Chairman With the weight of the water it- self. Mr Edward Jones: Is it at a pressure of lOOlb. to j the square iuch ? The Chairman That is a question which has M? Edward Joues: It is sent through the Watpr Company's pipe at a pressure of 100ibi to the square inch. The Chairman pointed out that whatever pressure there was, i was lost before it had gone down th pipe ten yards. The Board offered the Waterworks Company X71 15s. They had declined it, aod the Boa.rd now brought forward another scheme. Mr E. Jones Excuse me, but please confine the discussion to the disputed point about the water for flushing. The Company do not raceive X112 per year. I The Chairman: They have had .£4 ICs S:, and now they ask for an increase of £ 28 Gs. By the The Chairman: They have bad £ 34 ICs S', snd now they ask for an increase of £ 28 Gs. By the scheme which the Committee now present before the Board we shall be able to do it for a less sum than that offered to the Waterworks Company. To adopt this scheme will be a saving of hundreds of pounds. If it were necessary it can be shown in other towns that the same scheme has worked with prcfit, and proved th&t we are not trying a Utopian scheme I »sk you to support your Committee in this matter. They have taken iufioite pains, and b«ve met time after time, and if their ideas and hopes were not carried *at it will not place them in a. happy position I can assure you that we are in earnest upon our re- c joametidttiotis, and I aak you to show to-night by your votes that you have confidence in your com- mittee. If we do not buy a water cart we shall have to t-pend tl.50 in putting the sluices in good order. The Chairman made otherremarke, and oonclude-t by stating tint the present system in vogue whereby 3 000 gallons were run int? a 12 inch pipe through a t icon hose was like a boy trying to c.ean windows with a penny squirt (loud laughter). Mr David, Owen said the point of dispute was whether the sewers would be properly flashed by the old or a new cart. They were all agreed to flushing by <^art. The Chairman Mr Jones brought it up. Mr D. Owen said he had no doubt the experiment would answer, but why in the name of common sense should the Board-go in for buying a new cart? Let them wear the old one out first. Mr Edward Jones said he firmly believed the worthy Chairman of the Board was in earnest with a view to reduce the water rate, but he did not think the Water Company coveted a large supply to the town they only wished to be piid for the amount of w-ter that was consumed by the town. (Mr D. Owen Hear, hear). A letter had been sent by the Company to the Board to that effect, and tbe tormer were quite prepared to refer the case to arbitration, and to be paid only for water consumed. With regard to earnestness he should like to go in for reducing the water rate an much as anybedy, but the present scheme did not satisfy his mind in any shape or form. It would only prove a fnilure. They talked of having a cart to hold 450 gallons, and to run it into the sewers through a six inca funel, but he asked what use it would be ? How soon would the force of the water expend itself ? By the time it had reached the Cross it would be useless. It was all moonshine, and he told them faithfully that it was his firm conviction that the scheme would be a total failure. It would b" a much better plan to hire a cart and try the scheme to see huw it answered. The Chairman mentioned that by adopting the scheme the streets of most part of the town could be watered the same day, whereas now it was the habit of watering one part one day and a different street the next. It was granted that under the present syatem a lot more water was used, but it stood to reason that water from a 2. inch hose running into a 12 inch pipe would not be so beneficial as a 450 galious going into the same pipe at a mouthful. Mr Hughes I move that we hire a cart. Mr Edward J ones said it was the engineer'* scheme that the sewers were to be flashed through the slnioes, ana if the sluices were in proper order the pipes would retain the water. How m*ny thousand gallons could they retain? Sooner or later they would have to put them in proper repair, and he thought they should make a proper job of the work. Then they could talk about flushing with oarts and other things, but until then the whole of the water would go for nothing. The Chairman: Bat if we adopt the new scheme it will be unnecessary to spend the money ou the sluices. Mr Francis said both the Chairman and Mr Ed. Jones seemed pretty good engineers, but if the Board hired a cart,they would then be able to see what could be done, and whether Mr Jonea or the Chairman wan the best engineer. That would be a fair test. Ultimately, after further minor discussion, the subject was ordered to stand adjourned to a special meeting of the Board. SANITARY. A circular from the Local Government Board with respect to the Rivers Pollution Act, asd also amended regulations with regard to the importation of cholera, were referred to the Sanitary Committee without discussion. LEGAL OPINION. The question of the nuisance on the Severn Banks and Clifton-square was upra the agenda, but the subject was adjourned in order that the committee might have an opportunity of consider ing the legal opinion which had been taken. THM (QUALITY OF THE GAS. Mr Morgan drew the attention of the Board to the quality of the gas supplied by the Newtown Gas CoiiiBMiy. It was not up to the standard generally suarjied, and he should like to know whether they any power with regard to altering the quality; also whether the Board could appoint an inspector of gm. Other towns did, and the law gave them the pO"'1' of appointing a man who eodd visit tbe <-OSB- p*ol s works daily and teet the power and quality of !f8 made. it was their duty as a public body to t 4., the rat. payetw laid prcpat isgfcfe. aa& ,d if there was any difficulty to appoint an inspector for that purpose. The Chairman: You have asked me what I am able to answer. I quite agree with your remarks with regard to the quality and price of gas. Mr Hughes: I beg to refer the whole matter to the lighting committee., Mr Morgan: That will not answer my question as to whether there is any difficulty in the way of appointing an inspector who can visit the gas works ev.ry day. The Chtirman I should like to add to your reso- lution, Mr Hiighes, the words, with po-Aer to oon- sulu a solicitor," and I will give you my reason. We are now paying X220 per year for light. Two or three years ago there were great complaints about the gas, when it cost us £ 200, und we increased the light; and even now the streets are none too light,and we may fairly expect to have to increase our preaent expenditure. I think we should go U) the very root of this matter and ascertain the Board's position. I I have been thinking the matter over for several days, and I find that if the Gas Company were a public company, we should have undoubtedly very great powers over them, for instance, with regard to the illuminating power, the maximum price and pressure of gas, but I understand they have no Act of Parlia- ment. Mr MorganA provisional order. The Chairman i A provisional order is of no weight or power unless it is confirmed within seven days after the completion of the works and the publication of the provisional order. The price of gas charged us is 4i1 5d or 4s 6d per thousand feet, aud that is a very high price to pay. I think if we ascertained our position in the matter that possibly we may by friendly overtures induce the Gas Company, not only to reduce their charge in supplying gas to us, but also to the residents throughout the town generally. Ic is with that view that I ask Mr Hughes, who pro- posed the resolution, that the matter be referred to the Lighting and Street Committee, to add that they be e mpowet ed to find out the position of the Board I and c insult a solicitor. If the Committee have no doubt upon the points they need not go to a solicitor, even if you give them permission. Continuing, the Chairman went on to point out one or two cases in which the Board had suffered through not engaging a. o:ícitor. He said to spend a little money in law was like paying for insurance. He cited the case of the main roads, and said if the Board had applied to the Local Government Board six months after the County Council came into existence, the Board could have claimd the right to repair their main roads, and the price neewsary for their maintenance would have to bs settled by agreement. They had now lost that power, ftlld they saw the effeci of it in Milford- road, where for the first time in their exoerience, they found grass growing in the middle of the road. Further, there was the boundary question. Mr A. S. Cookeseeondedtheorigiiial proposition. He really did not see any occasion for the Board to bind itself by conferring en the Committee the power to consult a so;icitor. If they presented a report to the Bo<rd, and there were points upon which it would be well to get 1* gal advice, then be thought the Board would be perfectly willing for the Committee to have that opinion. With regard to the County Council having the main roads, it was a matter of opinion as to whether it was bad or good. He thought person* ally it was a good job, as it lessened the outside work of the officials, and enabled them to pay more attention to the town. The Chairman mentioned that tbe Gas Company worked under the Act dealing with Gas passed in 18AS. He knew, and wus perfectly positive, that they would have to get aivic-). and he hoped they would see their way clear to agrec- ta that ourse now.—Mr W. Lewis thought that before a. solicitor was consulted a report should he submitted to the B )ard. If there were any diffi. nnlti-a in the way let the whole of the Board know of them. Mr Hy, Roberts said it was all vary well to talk of consulting a solicitor, bat what was the cost each time (hear, hear)? Mr A. S. Cook a 8MQ he had no objection, nor did he believe otber raeutbets hwi. whan it was absolutely necessary to consult a s>Heitor, but it was a danger- ous precedent to set to give a con mittee power to oonsult tI. lawyer upon a point which they did not know of. If tht-y did th-n every t me they took up a ne* subject it would mean a large bill at the end of the year. The Chairman's name was meniioced as one of the i members comprising the com in act e to consider the question. The Cnairman; I must decline to act on that com- mittee. I have spent considerable time and thought on the subject, and I know you ealinotsecertain your position NviLhotLf. going to a solicitor to know the law on the matter. I don't suppose ti.,o oost of consulting » solicitor would amount to igor*. 6a 8d, but a solicitor ought to be appointed to the Board, so that he can be consulted from time to time. MrW. Lewis appealed to the Chairman to recon. sider his decision and act on the committee. The latter would not be able to solve the question with. out legal advice, yet it would be more business-like to first present a report to the Board. Mr Thomas Jones and Mr Ellison rose simultane- ously. Mr T. Jones I have not said a word all night yet (laughter) There has be*n a lot of talking as re-' gards the lighting and that like. Mr Ed ward Jones is a well experienced man both as regards lighting and streets. I think we should go as far as we can without a solicitor, and if we meet with a hard nut to crack, then we can call one in; but let's go as far as we can without him, (laughter). But there is a man who nas attacked me. He has not got one single Bmall stone to throw. He has lavished away toe ratepayers' money. The Chairman and several members: Order, order. Mr T. Jones: He has hit at me for one, and espe- cially you. v The Chairman: Mr Jones, you must not bring those matters up now. Mr Thomas Jones: He has thrown the ratepavers' money away (Cries of "Order, order.") On the Cross toere —- The Chairman Order, order. Yon must sit down if you talk like that now. i k f? ^?D es Now he has hit you and me an d all the rest (Order, order.) The Chairman remarked that one or two of the Committees had been convened during-the past month and members had not turned up. That would show the apathy that existed in carrying on the work of the Board. He then referred to the Parish Councils Bill, and said it would soon be Dashed, and many members were anxious to know what would be their them1*8 that A<3t" A 8oiicitor could tel1 Mr Roberts: It is best not to meet troubles half- way. If they come we will meet them as best we can. Mr David Owen hoped the Chairman did not press nis point. v The Chairman I do not press it, because it will throw us back another month. ;r Owen We have existed a number of years without having a solicitor, and I should be sorry to ST r?at ,oaTr CI,frk was getting like myself (loud ehter.) I call it outrageous to empower a com- mittee to g(t a solicitor's opinion until we know upon what point. Mr.T-Joae8 ■■ I do not want a solicitor. I am a solicitor to myself daughter.) Mr D. Owen We are told that in the multitude of counsel there is safety, and there is more wisdom in letting the whole 15 of us discuss the point rather than three or four, before we resort to such ex- treme measures as going to a solicitor. I dread the idea of going to these fellows unless it is necessary. I Those who dabble with them generally come to grief. But they are only fallible men, and all of them would tell us our case was good; they blonder as much to the Newtown Local Board (loud laughter.) Mr Edward Jones: And a great deal more, too, The subject was then adjotlrned- TO. « o- SANITATION. The Medical Officer of Health reported that there had been one case of infection during the month, but as the house in which the case occurred was not indi- cated he was unable to advise the Board. He was given to understand that every care was taken by the medical gentleman in charge of the case, as to disin- fectanta and disinfecting, bnt the Board would re- member that experience taught it was by these cases, in which there was a supposed necessity for secrecy, that the public health was most endangered. He bad good reasons for believing that many cases of in- fectaeus disease were for various reasons kept quiet, and the community at large subjected to dangers wnioh would be avoided by the adoption of the Noti- fication of Diseases Act. He had inspected many places in the district, and he ventured to refer the Board to his many reports upon the severs, and the nuisances arising from the escape of sewer gas from tae road grids. He thought it was time that some serious attention was given to the matter. The report was referred to the Sanitary Committee.