The Montgomeryshire Express and Radnor Times

CALYINISTIC METHODISTS. — NORTH WALES ASSOCIATION AT LLANFAIR. PROFESSIONAL PREACHERS v. AMATEURS. MINISTERS COMPLAIN OF COMPETI- TION. Llanfair-Caereinion was the Mecca to- wards which the Calvinistic Methodists of North Wales and Lancashire turned their eyes last week. for in the little town on the Banwy about 120 ministers and dele- gates assembled to hold their quarterly association- The first meeting took place on luesday afternoon in Muriah C.M. Chapel (after an excellent luncheon at the Wynnstay Hotel). The Rev William Thomas, Llanwrst, pre- sided, and with him in the big pew were the Revs Edward Griffiths, Meifod, Evan Jones, Carnarvon, Francis Jones, Abergele, John Pritchard, Oswestry, and John Owen, M.A.. Carnarvon (secretary), A quartette of speakers voiced a hearty welcome to the Rev Daniel Thomas. M.A., of Nebraska, moderator of the General Con- ference of the Calvinistic Methodists across the Atlantic. Each of the four speakers mentioned that he had been in America- the Revs Francis Jones, Thomas Charles Williams, M.A., Menajl Bridge, John Hughes, M.A.. Liverpool, and Evan Jones. AMERICAN METHODISTS' DILEMMA. In acknowledging the reception, the Rev Daniel Thomas conveyed the warmest greetings from the American Connexion, but remarked that it was possible for the feeling to be still more cordial. In Ameri- ca, he said. they had many difficulties to contend with in carrying on their religious work. One great obstacle was the great distance at which the church members lived from one another-in some large towns it cost the families more to journey to the services than to maintain the min- ister, and to some extent the children were kept from the services, especially from the Seiat and the prayer meetings. The dis- tance between the churches, again, made it very difficult to hold association meet- ings. A third difficulty, which grew daily, was the spread of the English language amongst the young people. The great ques- tion was, "What is to be done?" They must do something, and that before very long. One proposal was to conver' theirs into an English connexion, which he be- lieved could be done successfully. The other alternative was to unite with the Presbyterian denomination, which would be a pretty great change. In mot mat- ters the Presbyterians resembled them the Presbyterian doctrine was rather more Calvinistic. The form of church govern- ment was nearly the same in theory, but in practice they differed considerably. Although the Presbyterians counted the children as church members, yet they had no system to TRAIN THE YOUNG, unless some good minister took the matter up. The result was that more than half the Presbyterian children went out into the world before becoming full church mem- bers, whilst with the Calvinistic Methodists on an average 19 children out of 21) be- came church members, and more of them remained as members and workers than were received into the Presbyterian Church. But after all he feared the end of the mat- ter would be that they would unite with the Presbyterians. If they became an Eng- lish denomination, they would require Eng- lish books and an English periodical. They had already made two attempts to do that, but each time had failed for lack of co-operation, and he feared it was use- less to attempt again, unless some new spirit imbued them. Moreover. their young ministers had been trained in Pres- byterian Colleges, and there was a natural tendency on their part to lean towards Presbytenanism. Again, the Presbyterians were holding the door wide open to draw the Calvinistic Methodists in. He did not blame them—it would be a great advantage to the Presbyterians to have them in (laughter). The Calvinistic Methodists also would be willing to take in the Pres- byterians, if they could swallow them,— (more laugliter)-I)ut they were not very willing for the Presbyterians to swallow them. "THE CHURCHES SUF7ER." A lengthy and animated disca-i arose with regard to the supply of preiu L-: rs to small churches. At Pwllheli last Septem- ber, the Association has received a com- munication from the Liverpool nioiithly meeting, which called attention to the difficulty of* holding effective Sabbath ser- vices in the mission churches, and, to avoid disorder, requested that brethren be utilized as adviser^ under such circum- stances. A committee was appointed to consider the case, and now reported that the state of the small churches within the Lower Montgomery and Manchester month- ly meetings and the Montgomery and Lan- cashire Presbytery .was similar to those connected with the Liverpool monthly meeting. They were quite convinced that the churches suffered fur lack of a more suitable arrangement than at present ex- isted. Therefore they recommended:— That the Association give permission to the Monthly Meetings and Presbyteries, in which need is felt to arrange for churches that have difficulty in securing a regular Sabbath ministry, to set apart a number of brethren, whom they judge qualified in knowledge, character, and eloquence, as lay preachers, whom the churches in the district can call upon to minister occasion- ally on Sundays, on the understanding that their travelling expenses be paid by the churches. That the setting apart of these brethren be emphasised by an invitation to the Monthly Meeting or the Presbytery to have conversation with them regarding their re- ligious experience and the work that they undertake, and to give them suitable ad-, vice. That a list of such brethren with their addresses appear in the annual report of t the Monthly Meeting or Presbytery that sets them apart." In submitting the report, the Rev E. J. Owen, Rhyl, mentioned that in the Wrex- ham district laymen went out to minister every Sunday. It emphasised the fact that METHODIST DEACONS HAD A RIGHT, not only to be as table-seryers, but to take part in spiritual work, to go, when invited, to address congregations and even t-r, preach. There had been a large decrease in the number of laymen, who were pre- pared to take public part in the services. Records kept at Engedi, Carnarvon, showed that in 1865 two-thirds of the men mem- bers were accustomed to take part in the prayer meetings. The proportion ha" de- creased, until in 1905 not one-eighth took a public part. The difficulty was felt even more in the Presbyteries than in the monthly meetings, because the brethren in the English churches did not feel so readv as the Welsh brethren. The result ivas that many churches have been dependent on the help they could get from other de- nominations. The Rev Evan Davies. Trefriw, having seconded the adoption of the report, the Rev John Pritchard. Oswestry, strongly- opposed it. He quoted a statement that hundreds of preachers in the connexion were out of work every Sunday. There were plenty of workers, but a scarcity of j ° "t)rk. In his monthly riie, ting a deacon recently declared that the supply of min- isters increased more th an the demand- when they had a vaca-,at Sabbath, he re- ceived five application from ministers- some of them fro- Cardiganshire—who wished to supply. xSrow it was proposed to create a new O' £-der of preachers, which would intensify he evil. It would be wise at any rate to postpone the adoption of the report, until t savv- what would be done in connectio JJ with the centenarv of their ordination. Another speaker mentioned the desira- bility -° A rai-sing the status of the pulpit, u vere to get the people to come to chapf.j listen. This proposal, he said, amil,t laughter, opened a wider door for REÅHERS TO COME IN AND FOR LISTENERS TO GO OUT. The Rev O. J. Owen, Rock Ferry, said that in the Liverpool monthly meeting there were 18 mission churches and 15 mission rooms. They did not have a suffi- cieiit number of Calvinistic Methodists to fill these pulpits, and therefore they had to get Wesleyan and Congregational local preachers-there was some certainty as to these people's characters at any rate. But some had been asked to preach who, there was room to fear, lacked the necessary knowledge, eloquence, and character, and there was no supervision over them. The Rev T. C. Williams, Menai Bridge, supported the proposal, but remarked that perhaps the worst mishap which could be- fal some deacons was a desire to preach (laughter). At the same time, the provis- ion that only travelling expenses be paid would hinder any layman making a profit by their preaching. The Rev Evan Jones, Carnarvon, said that on a previous occasion he had been guilty of killing such a proposal. He had said he was ready to propose that a new- collection be introduced--for the people to come to listen to such lay preachers (laugh- ter). However, he sympathised with the committee that brought forward the recom- mendation, but suggested that it be con- fine(I to the Lancashire churches. Speak- ing not without something in his mind's eye, lie did not like to see a deacon going to officiate in a little chapel, and, after he had had what he wanted, they never saw him again (laughter). THE REV. ELIAS JONES. NEWTOWN, opposed the recommendation. They had at least 10*i ministers antk preachers who lacked a place to go to every Sunday, he said. Quoting official statistics, lie said that the ministers and preachers in Upper Montgomeryshire number 22. the jour- nevs also 22 in Lower Montgomeryshire there were 25 ministers and preachers, and 25 journeys." -The Montgomery Presby- tery had 17 ministers and preachers and 17 journeys." Lancashire had 413 preachers and 53 preaching places. In Manchester there was some deficit—only nine ministers and preachers and 17 preaching places— but in Liverpool they had 42 preaching places and 44 ministers and preachers, two too many. The Rev Elias Jones contended that they had already plenty of resources— the supply was greater than the demand. The Rev Thomas Jones, Rhostyllen, said that many churches paid as much as 8s for a lay preacher. It would be better for them to send to Bala-the student would have 4s at any rate to take home, and he would prefer that than have no place to go to on the Sunday. The Wesleyans had local preachers, but that denomination did not ordain a minister without guaranteeing him a church. When Calvinistic Metho- dists arrived at that stage, they could have as many local preachers as they liked. It was to be feared that the doors of weak churches would be opened to the proposed new order of lay preachers, and that many a preacher who had undergone years of training would suffer thereby. Alderman David Pryce (Guilsfied), who contributed THE ONLY SPEECH IN ENGLISH, supported the recommendation, and re- marked that he knew what could be done by statistics. The Montgomery Presbytery contained 17 churches, which had no regu- lar preacher every Sunday night in the year. Nine of them had scarcely any preachers on Sunday nights, but each of the 17 held a service, and the services were certainly not efficient. The suggestion made by the committee would be helpful to them. In their district they had a num- ber of educated young men—intermediate school teachers, professional men—good men—who would not approach the pulpit unless there was a good deal of pressure brought to bear upoi) them from high quar- ters. If the Association brought pressure to bear on these worthy and suitable men, they might render assistance occasionally to the small churches without considering that they were starting upon anything like a preacher's career. I The Rev Gwynoro Davies, Barmouth, ob- served that the statistics quoted as to the number of minister, and j,)uriievz; told the truth, but not the whole truth. There were "journeys" which included three chapels, and the preacher could not occupy the three places at the same time. Another minister objected to the wording of the committee's recommendation to set aside" lay preachers. He felt jealous of that word, and it was agreed to substitute call. By a majority the Association then adopted the committee's suggestions—to apply only to the Liverpool and Manches- ter Monthly Meetings and the Lancashire and Montgomery Presbyteries. It was decided to hold the next Associa- tion at Bangor on August 30th and 31st and September 1st. The subjects to be dis- cussed wil include The influence of the Newspaper Press on the national life." THE POOR LAW: "CAREFUL AND THOUGHTFUL CONSIDERATION." t T f 0' On the motion of the Rev John Owen, Carnarvon, seconded by the Rev John Hughes, Liverpool,, the Association adopted without any discussion the following reso- lution, which had been drafted bv a com- iiiittee:- "That we as an Association rejoice greatly that the cause of the poor and the defenceless is receiving so much attention and notice from the legislature, and look forward to the time when the causes of poverty are removed in so far as they can be removed by the introduction of better laws and more perfect social provisions. We rejoice in particular because the Gov- ernment of this country has appointed a Royal Commission to inquire into the causes of poverty and the condition of the poor, the poor laws and their administra- tions. and we strongly recommend all the members of our Association to give their careful and thoughtful attention to the con- sideration of the two report.- which were presented by the Commission. While we recognise the service that has been done and is being done by Boards of Guardians in this country, still we hope that His Majesty's present Government will do everything in its power to reform the poor- laws on the lines recommended by the Commission." INFORMATION ABOUT THE HOME MISSIONS. To stimulate interest in the home mis- sions of the connexion, a public meeting was held on Tuesday evening in the Welsh Independent Chapel. The Rev W. Thomas, who presided, said they were familiar with the Khassia Hill mission in India, but many knew little about the home missions amongst the Welsh in England, especially the North. Two hundred ministers be- longed to it, and did a great work. The Rev Richard Roberts, Colwvn Bay, having spoken, the Rev E. James Jones, Rhyl, secretary of the mission, said' that its activities extended from Dublin to Stafford, from Bardsey Island to Sunder- land, from Wokington, near Furness, to Pantydwr in Radnorshire. The churches )f Lower Montgomeryshire had contributed [ast year 1:87 to the funds, and received 115. Mr Edward Jones, Maesmawr Hall, who has been hon. treasurer to the mission for twelve years, said the Association had al- ways left him in debt, but he expected in a year or two to be above water. The col- lections in the North of England and Liver- pool last year totalled EI,800, and the ex- penses over £ 3,000. The interest from the 20th Century Endeavour Fund realized EI,260, and within the last two years E300 had been bequeathed. What troubled him was that the work had to suffer for lack of funds. They had been compelled to curtail supplies to ministers, who did splendid work. FREE CHURCH COUNCIL'S WELCOME. After others had spoken, the Rev John Evans, Llanfair, introduced a deputation from the local Free Church Council, con- sisting of Messrs D. Gittms, J. Lloyd Peate, and Rev Ivor Griffith (Welsh In- dependent), Rev J. G. Williams and Mr Samuel Ellis (Baptist), Rev W. J. Jones and Mr Joseph Watkins (Wesleyan). In voicing a welcome, the Rev Ivor Griffith remarked that when the Associa- tion first visited Llanfair many years ago, they had both their dinners and their meet- ings in a public house. Now they only had meals on licensed premises, and lie hoped that the next time they came not even that would be the case. The district was hon- oured by the presence of the Association, and all the denominations entertained feel- ings of warm regard towards the Calvinistic Methodists. The Calvinistic Methodist was a Welsh denomination, born and bred in Wales, where it had done splendid work. He could not help admiring their talent to acknowledge a reformer. Their denom- ination had been born in a revival, to which the Church of England gave no en- couragement. The Calvinistic Methodists had the talent of retaining the revival spirit, and had not lost sight of the import- ance of the pulpit. Mr Samuel Ellis remarked that Noncon- formity was strong in the district, which contained 15 chapels and one Anglican Church. The Rev Evan Jones, Carnarvon, ack- nowledged the welcome in a graceful and humorous speech. He saw no reason why the churches should not draw nearer to one another than they had been. ORDINATION SERVICE. An ordination service took place on Wed- -nesday morning in the Independent Chapel, where ten candidates were dedicated to the ministry:— Messrs W. R. Owen, Anglesey Gwilym H. Evans, B.A., Porthaethwy, Anglesey Hugh Edwards, Capel Coch, Anglesey S. Venniore Williams, B.A., Y Cysegr, Car- narvon O. H. Davies, Brynaerau, Car- narvon T. R. Jones, Caerwys George Whitfield Jones, Maesydref, Flint J. Christmas Lloyd. Barmouth Philip Morris, Rhriospardyn, Merioneth J. O. Jones, Graig, Upper Montgomery. The Rev J. Howell Hughes, Bala, deliv- ered the address on Church polity the candidates were catechised by the Revs Thomas Charles Williams, M.A., Menai Bridge, and William Thomas. With uplifted hands the assembly signified its approval of the candidates, and the Rev Richard Humphreys, Liverpool, delivered the usual "charge," describing the minis- ter's work as being one of the highest hon- ours and the greatest responsibility. FROM CARMEL TO BIRMINGHAM." At its fourth meeting on Wednesday af- ternoon, the Association re-assembled in the Calvinistic Methodist Chapel, where the veteran ex-Moderator from M eifocl-the Rev Edward Griffiths—presided during the tem- porary absence of the Rev William Thomas. The Rev D. B. Edmunds, Tregynon, pre- sented a report on the state of the denomin- ation in Lower Montgomeryshire. It showed that their monthly meeting was made up of 46 churches. Two had a mem- bership under 20, five others under 30, seven under 40, six under 50, five under 70, five under 80, and only nine over 100. The largest membership in one church was 195, and the average church membership 63. The 46 churches formed 24 Sabbath jourrf- eys and 21 pastoral charges, of which 16 were not under pastoral care, whilst the majority of the remainder had either se- cured or, were seeking a suitable man to serve them. Since 1904 debts had been paid off and repairs done to the extent of £ 3,790. The total debt on the chapels and houses was £ 4,755—18s 4d per listener or 32s 5d per member. Thirty chapels had no debt, and the indebtedness of others varied from F-30 5s to 2s 9d per member. The pastors num- bered 16, other ministers 3. preachers 3 communicants, 2,933 children. 1,385 candidates for membership, 28 listeners, 845 total congregations, 5,191 Sunday School officers and teachers, 532, other members, 3,349 number of libraries, 21 collections towards the ministry, P-1,674 average per member, lis 2d; congrega- tional collections, £ 382 district collec- tions, E457 total collections, £ 3,305. Sun- day school was held in 51 chapels, school- rooms, and dwelling houses. Eight quar- terly meetings were held in the year. They should like to see a better representation of the churches, yet when they considered that they were so scattered, they had little room to complain-the distance from Car- mel to Birmingham was about 8U miles. They believed that their ministers were faithful to preach Christ as the only Saviour, and that they were sound in the faith. REVIVAL RESULTS. The report included a summary by the Revs Edward Griffith, Meifod, and John Evans, Llanfair, of the result of the in- quiries into the state of the churches. The lasting efforts of the revival were noted as follows:— I. The prayer meeting being held weekly instead of monthly. 2. The missionary prayer meeting on the first Monday night in each month restarted and established. 3. More taking part in these meetings. The women and maidens continuing in many places to take part themselves. 4. A Band of Hope established in many places, and being carried on almost entirely by the young people. 5. A greater desire for knowledge-the literary meeting being desired, and interest taken in it. 6. More talk about religious matters amongst the members, and more intensity and seriousness marking the lives of most of them. The Rev D. B. Edmunds emphasised the indebtedness of the district to the revival. Whatever it had done in other districts, he • said, it had been invaluable in lower Mont- gomeryshire. The Rev John Hughes, Liverpool, speak- ing as one who had lived nine years in Montgomeryshire, said that the people in the county stood very high in Wales as at- tentive listeners and gentle members. CHRISTENINGS AT HOME. The Rev John Williams, Brynsiencyn, Anglesey, called attention to the report that in Lower Montgomeryshire the ordnance of baptism was mostly administered in dwell- ing houses. It was a church ordnance, he urged, and should be celebrated in the chapel, and except under exceptional cir- cumstances, not in the home. The Rev Edward Griffiths explained that m remote districts, where the family lived three or four miles from the chapel, it would be difficult to bring the child to chapel in winter. So he took the church to the dwelling house they never per- formed the rite there unless there was a deacon present and a houseful of members a service was then held, and perhaps a ser- mon was preached. Their greatest diffi- culty, said Mr Griffiths, was the language problem. He rarely preached' or prayed ] without speaking in English as well as Welsh. In Llanfair there were half-a-dozen people who attended the Methodist Chapel, ( though they understood no Welsh. If the service were conducted in Latin, still there 1 they would attend (laughter). In the par- s ish church alone would they have English 3ervices. At Meifod he gave the points of t I :he sermon and a part of the prayer in < Welsh. In a small congregation he had < counted 19. children and adults who under- < itood only English. Mr Griffiths explained ] that the day schools and teachers were An- < glican and English. The Rev John Evans, Llanfair, confessed that in his district the ordnance of baptism did not receive the attention it deserved, and the Association adopted the report and decided to call the attention of churches to' the fact that it was a church ordnance, and that it should not be celebrated in the home except under extraordinary circum- stances. MORE PLAS DINAM GENEROSITY. The Rev E. J. Jones, Rhyl, presented the committee's report on the Home Missions and English Churches' Fund. On the Home Missions Fund they owed £695 to the treasurer, £440 less than the previous year. The accounts of the English Churches Fund had been submitted by the Treasurer (Mr John Owens, Chester). The amount received hitherto was £542. £316 had been received towards paying off the debt to the treasurer of this, £300 came from Mrs Edward Davies, Miss Davies, and Miss M. S. Davies, Llandinam. It was recommended to the Asociation to pass sin- cerest and warmest thanks to Mrs Edward Davies and the Misses Davies for their great generosity, and the great relief to the fund by their worthy gifts. The Rev E. J. Jones remarked that Mr John Owens had visited Mrs Davies and the Misses Davies at Plas Dinam with re- gard to the state of the fund. How much will you be satisfied with ? he was asked. I shall be satisfied with £100 each," he replied. And so it was (applause). SHOULD MONTHLY MEETING MEM- BERS BE TOTAL ABSTAINERS? An interesting discussion was provoked by the following resolution from the Lan- cashire Presbytery:— That inasmuch as the Association at Llanidloes expressed its approval of the, six Monthly Meetings and Presbyteries which have made total abstinence a con- dition of membership of the said six Monthly Meetings and Presbyteries, and as these are acting beyond their power, and that the other Monthly Meetings and Pres- byteries might have an opportunity of mak- ing their voice known to the Association, we respectfully ask the Association to refer the question of total abstinence as a con- dition of membership of Monthly Meetings and Presbyteries to all the Monthly Meet- ings and Presbyteries so that their voice may be heard and a decision taken upon I the question as the result of their decisions." The Rev Thomas Jones, Rhostyllen, said it was, rather unfortunate that Monthly Meetings acted contrary to one another in the matter, and pleaded for uniformity. The Rev John Owen, as secretary, quoted the report of the Temperance Committee, which had been appointed to inquire how the regulations of the Association were ob- served by the Monthly Meetings. Six Monthly Meetings made total abstinence a condition of membership of the Monthly meetings, nine did not do so. The Com- mittee rejoiced to learn that the temperance feeling continued to grow in the Monthly Meetings, and they should like to see every Monthly Meeting reach the higher standard set by six, and it would be well for the Association to give every encouragement and carry out the present rules in appoint- ing deacons. The Rev Robert Richards, Rhyl, thought that the matter should be decided by the Association rather than that the Monthly Meetings should lead. The Rev Evan Jones described the pre- sent system in the Churches and the Monthly Meetings as one of local option. It. was desired to have a prohibition law, but though he himself was a temperance crank—he would never drink alcoholic liquor except by mistake—(laughter)—yet it woul'd serve no purpose to legislate UNLESS SUPPORTED BY PUBLIC OPINION. He would not support a regulation which would cause men to mock, and he con- sidered it was no trifling matter to break a promise. Let the Churches and Monthly Meetings have local option, but he doubted the desirability of compelling rather than persuading people to accept their views on the subject. A Doctor with whom he stayed jat Llanfair, told him that the wave of tem- perance which had come over the country was most wonderful. The Rev J. D. Evans, B.A., Liverpool, agreed with Mr Evan Jones' views, but drew attention to the resolution's contention that the Monthly Meetings, which made total abstinence a condition of their mem- bership, had exceeded their powers. The Rev John Williams said it was well that the Monthly Meetings were zealous enough to pass such a total abstinence reso- lution, although it was open to question whether these were the most temperate. What was the use of stirring up the counties again about the matter ? Some people were intoxicated with it, and some very extreme statements had been made. The "resolution to make total abstinence a necessary qualifi- cation had been supported by some people in whom there was not much confidence as regards either their character or their tem- perance—their history was known through- out the years. Would it not be well to be satisfied with the strong opinion that the Association had expressed, and leave the Monthly Meetings to make their own bye- laws on the subject ? The Rev E. J. Jones Rhyl, moved that the Association did not think it would serve any good purpose to pass any resolution on the subject so soon after the expression of opinion at Llanidloes. The Rev Evan Jones suggested that the resolution be worded that at the present time they were satisfied with that clear: expression of opinion at Llanidloes. The Association adopted this suggestion. DISESTABLISHMENT DISQUIET. The last item on the agenda read "Other matters," and the Rev David Davies, Wal- ham Green, London, rose to call attention to some subject. But the Secretary also rose, and said he understood Mr Davies intended to move a resolution on Dises- tablishment. That subject had not been considered by the Association at all, and they did not often permit a matter to be introduced in this manner unless it had been first considered by the preliminary committee. He (the Rev John Owen) did not know that at the present time Dises- tablishment was very prominently before the country. But the Association could pass a resolution allowing Mr Davies to bring it forward. The Rev David Davies said it was not exactly the question of Disestablshment he wished to bring forward, but the depu- tation of Welsh members that had been and would go to interview the Prime Min- ister on the subject. The Rev Elias Jones, Newtown, proposed that the matter be not considered. The Cabinet, he said, had been in very strait- ened circumstances, and, he thought, had put themselves into RATHER AN UNHAPPY POSITION. The Cabinet had quite enough to do at present. The Rev Evan Jones agreed with Mr Elias Jones. They were quite clear on the question of Disestablishment the only thing was which of the many passing ques- tions would take precedence. The Rev John Hughes, Liverpool, pointed out that many of the delegates had departed, and the matter had better be de- ferred. The Chairman thought the last item, "Other matters," would include Mr David Davies' proposal, but the Secretary inter- preted this to mean matters that had been ilready considered by the committee. The Chairman: The item should be put ] lown in those words 'then.. < 1 The Rev John Hughes said the Secretary 1 lad interpreted the agenda, and they < ihould accept his version. I ( The Rev John Williams said they should 11 lave more faith in the Cabinet. The re-1 t sent deputation of Welsh members had i lone little good.—(The Rev David Davies: Question! Question !)-He did not give hi personal opinion, but it was the opinion of someone more important than the depu- tation altogether. The Rev Robert Richards, Rhyl, seconded the Rev Elias Jones' proposal that the mat- ter be not discussed. The Rev Evan Jones moved the pre- vious question." Thereupon the Rev David Davies intimated that he would not press the matter, which was then dropped.

MR. RICHARD JONES REPLIES TO A RATEPAYER." To THE EDITOR OF THE MONTGOMERYSHIRF EXPRESS AND RADNOR Ticmrhv." Sir,-ln his first. letter A Ratepayer" wished to know why the district education rates in the county were so unequal. I explained that the amount of the assess- able value of the parishes was a deter- mining factor in the matter, and in order that the thing might sink all the better into A Ratepayer's" mind, I illustrated the point by comparing the assessable values of the parishes of Trefeglwys and Newtown. The fact that one parish is rural and the other urban does not affect the argument at all. For rating purposes everything is fish that comes into the net of the Local Education Authority. Inasmuch, however, as A Ratepayer" has now definitely asked me to explain why the special rates of Llanwnog and Llan- dinam are so low, I consider it my duty to try to satisfy him. LLANWNOG. £ s. d. Half annual repayment of principal and interest on- (a) Caersws loan of £ 901 for 30 years at 3 per cent 24 7 6 (b) Loan (on furniture) of £ 153 for 10 years at 3 per cent. 9 2 8 (c) Clatter loan of £ 1,311 for 30 years at 3i per cent. 1 5 6 (N.B.—Llanwnog, being in luck's way, benefited by a grant of £ 1,066 from the McKenna Building t'iind. F-250 was also received as a reward for the plucky way in which the county and the parish fought the Education Act. These contributions have been applied in repayment of this loan hence the small amount repayable annually.) f (d) Clatter. Furniture loan of £ 71 for 10 years at 31 per cent. 4 8 1 (e) Caersws. New loan of t285 received this year (half-year only allowed for) to meet over-expenditure on loan of £ 901 3 15 9 (f) Clatter. Half cost of rent of water rights 0 10 0 Half cost. of acknowledgment for pipe-line 0 0 6 (g) Allowance for contingencies 1 0 0 £ 44 10 0 Id. rate produces 4:24 Os lid. 2d. rate produces £ 48 Is IOd. The remaining Jd is the quota payable by the parish towards the debt on the Aber- hafesp Council School. LLANDINAM. For the year ended 31st March, 1910, a rate of 4d was levied on this parish to meet expenditure which, it was anticipated, would be incurred in that year by the raising of loans for the Llandinam and Llidiartywaen schools (loans of £ 7oo and £ 305 respectively), as well as by the repay- ment of principal and interest on the loan received by the Local Education Authority for Oakley Park School. All these schools are in the parish of Llandinam. The amount thus received was t117 Os 4d, but as neither of the loans in question was raised (nor has yet been raised), the expenditure for that year was considerably less than the estimate, and there was a credit balance for this parish on the 31st March last of F.64 13s 2d. It is estimated that the expenditure for these three schools in this year will be some f.60, and no special rate on their account has there- fore been levied. Llandinam parish, however, being served by the Caersws School, a rate of td (not ld, as stated by "A Ratepayer"), has been levied as the quota of the estimated ex- penditure for this school. The rate, of course, is calculated on the basis of the number of children in attendance at the school. I may add that a rate of not more than d on this parish is required annually to meet the repayment of principal and inter- est on the loans raised by the School Board, while a rate of 4d for this purpose is necessary in the case of Trefeglwys parish. Moreover, a Id rate for Llandinam pro- duces £ 31 18s 7d, almost twice as much as the same rate on Trefeglwys ( £ 16 16s 9d). Hence, for the same amount of expendi- ture, the rate on Trefeglwys would be double the rate on Llandinam. To come back to Trefeglwys, A Rate- payer" asks if the Education Authority were justified in spending E922 on a school building "equal to new," and "recognised by many to be one of the finest in the county." Well, the building was not bad as far as the shell was concerned, but taken as a whole the premises were quite unadapted to the modern requirements of elementary education. There was practically no cloak- room, lavatories, or drainage. The sanitary state of the place was ex- ceptionally bad on account of a large cess- pool under the privies, and there was ab- solutely no water supply, although the late School Board had expended £70 in attempting to sink a well for the purpose. The rooms were insufficiently lighted and warmed, and the whole building, as well as the master's house, were becoming quite dilapidated for want of efficient re- pairs. The amount expended on the build- ing improvements, etc., as compared with the £ 1,200 and other sums expended by the School Board, is certainly not exces- sive, although prices have, since the former time, considerably risen. "A Ratepayer" states that the cost in- curred on the school was done without consulting the parish. Well, the parish representatives (the school managers) were at any rate consulted, for I have it from the County Surveyor (Mr Hutchins) that the whole plans were submitted and ap- proved by them. And regarding the water supply, it was the managers who recom- mended Cefnbarach and Banker's Well as alternative schemes. With respect to Staylittle School, it is proposed to spend the loan of £ 330 in ex- tending the playground, the provision of new sanitary offices, repairs and improve- ments to buildings, and water supply. The number of children in this school is 30 at least, and not 24, as stated by "A Ratepayer." But I gather by the tone of his letter that even that number deserve no consideration, and that any money spent to protect their health and to pro- mote their comfprt might as well be thrown into the river Trannon.—Yours truly, RICHARD JONES. Pendinas, Caersws, June 3rd, 1910. 0

See the ONOTO Window at No. 19, Broad-street, Newtown. A London correspondent understands that the King has expressed the view that before the struggle on the Veto is resumed, there should be a meeting between. the leaders of the two great parties, with a view to a settlement. A memorial to the late Captain Webb, who thirty-five years ago swam the Chan- nel, was unveiled at Dover bv Lord Des- borough, who, in handing it "over to the < Mayor, spoke of the pluck and character 1 )f the great swimmer. After the unveiling, 1 Captain Webb's daughter placed a laurel < vreath, tied with red, white, and blue rib- J )on, at the foot of the memorial. 1

BAPTISTS SEVERELY CRITI- CISED BY A PRESIDENT. REMARKABLE SPEECH AT KERRY. FASHIONS THE INVENTIONS OF THE DEVIL. Speaking at the annual meeting of the above Association at Kerry last week, the Rev J. G. Williams, Llanfair, the retiring president, made some severe criticism of his own denomination. He selected as his subject, Some of the causes of our de- nominational poverty." He said they were poor—they could not deny that. Their poverty looked them in the face wherever they turned. He did not think that they were poorer than other denominations, but he thought that poverty was more sinful in them than in the others, because they professed better things than other de- nominations, according to the Word of God. The foundation of their faith and profession was on the Bible alone. Every other de- nomination that practiced infant baptism stood for Bible raclition. All he said was that if they professed better things than other people, they ought to be better, and wrong was more wrong in them than in others. When he put his finger on some of the faults that aftetnoon-the SELFISHNESS, GREEDINESS, AND NIGGARDLINESS of thousands of Baptists-he knew at the same time, as well as any of them, of the liberality and self-denial of hundreds with- in their denomination. But they could not but think, with sanctified seriousness, of thousands by thousands of recognised mem- bers in their churches who took no interest whatever in the life, work, nor funds of the Christian Church, and gave next to nothing to help the work, and would spend on themselves, or keep for themselves, all. These were the unemployed of our churches, and, oh! listen to the grumbling, groaning, and complaining there was amongst church members against the spiritual and temporal demands of the Lord's cause. When they stood face to face with things as they were, the com- parative condition of things in their midst passed like a panorama before their eyes, and, oh! the poverty there was in the de- nomination that they had the honour to represent! Poor people, poor churches, poor societies. Their missionaries, their philanthropic and educational establish- ments, all very poor and needy, and bound to go from door to door to beg their sup- port. They pretended to be the represen- tatives of Jesus Christ on earth, yet He was 'compelled to go about to ask for alms to carry on the great work of His spiritual kingdom in their midst. He fancied he could hear someone whisper "Shame!" Yes, a million times over. As a Christian Church THEY OUGHT TO BLUSH when they thought of Him though He was rich, yet for their sakes He became poor, that we through His poverty might be rich. Out of the 133,415 (and more he hoped) professed followers among the Bap- tists of Wales, they compelled Him to go about begging because they. wanted to keep up their banking accounts, and to feed the lusts of their defiled nature. Members of their church hoarded gold and silver and worldly possessions of other description together—things that they would never be in want of—to feed the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the vain glory of life, things not of the Father, but of the world. They were sup- posed to be the Church of Christ, and that meant that they were called out of the world, from darkness to light, and from Satan to God, but according to His great mercy gave them the living hope of the resurrection through Jesus Christ from the dead. Having been born again through the Word of God, they were supposed to be the spiritual and holy nation, thinking the same things, living for the same pur- pose, under the guidance of the same Spirit, looking to Jesus Christ as their great leader and Lord. They were sup- posed to be co-workers with God, co-suffer- ers with Christ and with each other, to love each other. Everyone bore branded on his body the marks of Jesus. They could not find a Christian Church but where they could find these things. They could not find a saved soul without them. If there was any member in any church in this Association who was not able to see that there was something wrong some- where, he must be blind indeed. It was a sin to flatter one another in wrong-doing. May God give them the necessary light and strength to oppose every sin, and to encourage every good work. Some of the causes of their poverty was extravagance and idle money. Oh, the great sum of money, and time, knowledge and learning, yes, and some kind of energy and work, they threw away for nothing to feed THE CRAVING OF LUST AND PRIDE, and the selfishness of their defiled nature, and at the same time they were starving their immortal souls, their spiritual na- ture. He desired to make supplication to God that he might lead every member of their churches in the Association through his address to think seriously of the things they do every day of their life, that they used the Lord's money for all, and respon- sible to Him for all their actions. Think of the money they spent on unecessary things. They bought things to eat to please the lust of the flesh, and not to meet the needs of their nature. They al- ways asked for some tasty and relishing thing, and not nourishing things. He was not afraid to say that the Baptists of Wales spent more yearly on unnecessary things to eat than every denomination put together spent on the Lord's work. They must ramember that they used the Lord's money for everything, and not only the money\. they spent on the things and the materials to make them, but all the things that were connected with them to keep up the ostentatious st3rle of the age. Besides the precious tfime spent to prepare the things for the table, they would be much better off without unnecessary things, and an enormous sum of money would go to the Lord's treasury, if they would deny all these things for His sake. As a rule, the majority of THEIR SISTERS FORGOT THE SABBATH DAY to keep it holy. They were at home pre- paring for the body, and in this there was no difference whatever between members of their churches and women of the world. They wanted Moses in their land every Sunday to proclaim God's rights for His holy day, and they should always remem- ber. that it was a sin to do on Sunday what they could do on Saturday. If they would look at things in the right light, their Sabbath would be a day of benefit for the soul, and if they used their opportunities aright, an enormous sum of money would come to the Lord's treasury, and plenty of food to the empty cupboards of our land. Think also of the money spent on drink. The drink bill for 1909 was 160 million pounds. He should like to know how much of that enormous sum went from the pockets of the Baptists of Wales, and es- pecially from the Baptists of Radnorshire and Montgomeryshire. They would find hundreds of Baptists that would complain and grumble against the different collec- tions towards the cause of the Lord, but they would spend pounds yearly on them- selves and their friends willingly for this cursed drink. They never grumbled for themselves, although they spent TEN TIMES MORE FOR DRINK than they gave for the Lord in 12 months. Every penny of this money ought to go to the Lord to help His work, and not to help 1 work of Satan to destroy the body and i ;oul. Think also what we spent on to- ] )acco-30 million pounds. Thousands of t pounds yearly were going from Baptists to the funds of this popular god, and there were none more faithtul than some of their leaders. There was no use singing There is more pleasure in His work Than all the world can give," if a man spent more on tobacco or any- thing else than the sum he gave for the Lord, it was nothing but hypocrisy for these people to say over and over again, Take my life and let it be Consecrated, Lord, to Thee," if they were feeding self with the Lord's money and going further from Him every day. Every penny spent on tobacco ought, to go to the Lord. The Lord's work crippled for the want of funds. FASHIONS THE INVENTIONS OF THE DEVIL. Think also of the money spent unneces- sarily on dress. He referred to the feath- ers, artificial flowers, ribbons, and all kinds of unnecessary things—inventions of the devil, things not orderly for Chris- tians, because they were not necessarv. They Baptists ought to follow the Word of God, which said plainly to them, Be ye not fashioned according to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that ye may know what is good and acceptable and perfect will of God." The cursed fashions of the world was one of the most effectual agents of the devil! It was like cancer to the thoughts of thousands of Baptists. All their thought was How^hall we dress," and they did not have tA same garments long, because the fashion changed. Meetings like that one called together by the Christian Church very often resembled, a dress parade more than anything else. Many a Baptist had more than enough of garments, and there were plenty close by to him who had not enough. Let them remember the words of their Saviour, "He that hath" two coats, let him impart to him that hath none," and he that hath food let him do like- wise." They might lose the best robe of their Heavenly Father by thinking about things that were of no better value than food for worms. They ought to dress in harmony with their Christian character, and by so doing they might possess some hope of relieving the world of its foolish- ness, and thousands of pounds would come through this to the treasury of the Lord to help the Kingdom of Heaven and sub- due the pride of the human heart. THE BILL OF JEWELS, RINGS, AND BRACELETS, silver and gold, together with the millin- ers' bill, was close on 50 million pounds. Now, the earth is the Lord's, and the ful- ness thereof. They were only agents for Him, and they had no right whatever to spend His possessions on themselves, and especially on things that were not good for them. He expected them to spend every penny that He gave them for His glory and for the betterment of the human race at large so their duty was to put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no profession for the flesh to fulfil the lusts thereof—to gird ourselves with humility and serve one another. Think of the enormous sums of money spent on ornaments for their houses and toys for the grown-up people, and other worldly, dangerous, and harmful pleas- ures. There were things in every house and no practical purpose for them, and so they added nothing to the real comfort of the family but if those in possession of them would give their value to thfe Lord, that would add constantly and really to the genuine happiness of the family. Think what they could do with the money to uplift their fellowmen and women, and to help the cause of Him Who for our sake became so poor that He had not where to lay His head. There were hundreds of members in Baptist Churches who would rather pay HIGH PRICES FOR DECEITFUL PLEASURE than give the value to produce and in- crease the real happiness of thousands and thousands of their fellowmen and women that sat in the region and shadow of death. Think of the idle money of the Baptist de- nomination This was another great cause of their poverty. Personal estate and re- ligion were two different things with, thousands of their members, and scores, they might be quite certain, practiced their religion for their business sake, and not, their business for religion. They thought more of this than of God and His redeem- ing work. It was quite true—too true, more is the pity—of a great number of their members that they had settled down in business or a firm for themselves, but the true Christian was in business for his Lord and Saviour. Now, by this idle money he referred to every penny that every member of their churches kept for themselvs. If they had money in the bank or somewhere else, let him tell them it was there because they had no faith in divine providence. It was a very serious matter when thev thought of it, to see the professed follower of Jesus Christ, the generous and self- sacrificing Jesus, HEAPING GOLD AND SILVER TOGETHER, that they would never need, when they knew that the Lord's cause was crippled. for want of funds. They were eye-wit- nesses of Jesus Christ going from door to door to beg for support to carry on His redeeming work on earth. Listen to men -who would leave hundreds and thousands of pounds on the banks of Jordan one of these next days, grumbling with their hands in their pockets full of gold, saying that they cannot afford more than half-a- crown for mission work! There were so- many calls, they say, and they could not afford to give any more. He should like to know what was the difference between the crime of Ananias and Saphira and the crime of these men and women. As a mat- ter of fact, they all robbed God to som extent, and by doing so they robbed them- selves. God had given enough money in the Baptist denomination to carry on His work, and they squandered that or kept it. from Him. They kept enough or squander- ed enough to meet the demand of His cause in every part of the country. Every Baptist ought to give of his first fruits to. the Lord.

Stitch in Time. There is an old saying, A stitch in tim saves nine," and if upon the first symptoms of anything being wrong with our health we were to resort to some simple but. proper means of correcting the mischief.. nine-tenths of the suffering that invades our homes would be avoided. A dose of Gwilym Evans' Quinine Bitters taken when you feel the least bit out of sorts is just. that stitch in time." You can get Gwilym Evans' Quinine Bitters at any Chemists or Stores in bottles 2s. 9d. and 4s. 6d. each but remember that the only guarantee of genuineness is the name Gwilym Evans on the label, stamp, and bottle, without which none are genuine. Sole Proprietors:—Quinine Bitters Manu- facturing Company, Limited, Llanellv, South Wales.