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CALYINISTIC METHODISTS. —i

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CALYINISTIC METHODISTS. — NORTH WALES ASSOCIATION AT LLANFAIR. PROFESSIONAL PREACHERS v. AMATEURS. MINISTERS COMPLAIN OF COMPETI- TION. Llanfair-Caereinion was the Mecca to- wards which the Calvinistic Methodists of North Wales and Lancashire turned their eyes last week. for in the little town on the Banwy about 120 ministers and dele- gates assembled to hold their quarterly association- The first meeting took place on luesday afternoon in Muriah C.M. Chapel (after an excellent luncheon at the Wynnstay Hotel). The Rev William Thomas, Llanwrst, pre- sided, and with him in the big pew were the Revs Edward Griffiths, Meifod, Evan Jones, Carnarvon, Francis Jones, Abergele, John Pritchard, Oswestry, and John Owen, M.A.. Carnarvon (secretary), A quartette of speakers voiced a hearty welcome to the Rev Daniel Thomas. M.A., of Nebraska, moderator of the General Con- ference of the Calvinistic Methodists across the Atlantic. Each of the four speakers mentioned that he had been in America- the Revs Francis Jones, Thomas Charles Williams, M.A., Menajl Bridge, John Hughes, M.A.. Liverpool, and Evan Jones. AMERICAN METHODISTS' DILEMMA. In acknowledging the reception, the Rev Daniel Thomas conveyed the warmest greetings from the American Connexion, but remarked that it was possible for the feeling to be still more cordial. In Ameri- ca, he said. they had many difficulties to contend with in carrying on their religious work. One great obstacle was the great distance at which the church members lived from one another-in some large towns it cost the families more to journey to the services than to maintain the min- ister, and to some extent the children were kept from the services, especially from the Seiat and the prayer meetings. The dis- tance between the churches, again, made it very difficult to hold association meet- ings. A third difficulty, which grew daily, was the spread of the English language amongst the young people. The great ques- tion was, "What is to be done?" They must do something, and that before very long. One proposal was to conver' theirs into an English connexion, which he be- lieved could be done successfully. The other alternative was to unite with the Presbyterian denomination, which would be a pretty great change. In mot mat- ters the Presbyterians resembled them the Presbyterian doctrine was rather more Calvinistic. The form of church govern- ment was nearly the same in theory, but in practice they differed considerably. Although the Presbyterians counted the children as church members, yet they had no system to TRAIN THE YOUNG, unless some good minister took the matter up. The result was that more than half the Presbyterian children went out into the world before becoming full church mem- bers, whilst with the Calvinistic Methodists on an average 19 children out of 21) be- came church members, and more of them remained as members and workers than were received into the Presbyterian Church. But after all he feared the end of the mat- ter would be that they would unite with the Presbyterians. If they became an Eng- lish denomination, they would require Eng- lish books and an English periodical. They had already made two attempts to do that, but each time had failed for lack of co-operation, and he feared it was use- less to attempt again, unless some new spirit imbued them. Moreover. their young ministers had been trained in Pres- byterian Colleges, and there was a natural tendency on their part to lean towards Presbytenanism. Again, the Presbyterians were holding the door wide open to draw the Calvinistic Methodists in. He did not blame them—it would be a great advantage to the Presbyterians to have them in (laughter). The Calvinistic Methodists also would be willing to take in the Pres- byterians, if they could swallow them,— (more laugliter)-I)ut they were not very willing for the Presbyterians to swallow them. "THE CHURCHES SUF7ER." A lengthy and animated disca-i arose with regard to the supply of preiu L-: rs to small churches. At Pwllheli last Septem- ber, the Association has received a com- munication from the Liverpool nioiithly meeting, which called attention to the difficulty of* holding effective Sabbath ser- vices in the mission churches, and, to avoid disorder, requested that brethren be utilized as adviser^ under such circum- stances. A committee was appointed to consider the case, and now reported that the state of the small churches within the Lower Montgomery and Manchester month- ly meetings and the Montgomery and Lan- cashire Presbytery .was similar to those connected with the Liverpool monthly meeting. They were quite convinced that the churches suffered fur lack of a more suitable arrangement than at present ex- isted. Therefore they recommended:— That the Association give permission to the Monthly Meetings and Presbyteries, in which need is felt to arrange for churches that have difficulty in securing a regular Sabbath ministry, to set apart a number of brethren, whom they judge qualified in knowledge, character, and eloquence, as lay preachers, whom the churches in the district can call upon to minister occasion- ally on Sundays, on the understanding that their travelling expenses be paid by the churches. That the setting apart of these brethren be emphasised by an invitation to the Monthly Meeting or the Presbytery to have conversation with them regarding their re- ligious experience and the work that they undertake, and to give them suitable ad-, vice. That a list of such brethren with their addresses appear in the annual report of t the Monthly Meeting or Presbytery that sets them apart." In submitting the report, the Rev E. J. Owen, Rhyl, mentioned that in the Wrex- ham district laymen went out to minister every Sunday. It emphasised the fact that METHODIST DEACONS HAD A RIGHT, not only to be as table-seryers, but to take part in spiritual work, to go, when invited, to address congregations and even t-r, preach. There had been a large decrease in the number of laymen, who were pre- pared to take public part in the services. Records kept at Engedi, Carnarvon, showed that in 1865 two-thirds of the men mem- bers were accustomed to take part in the prayer meetings. The proportion ha" de- creased, until in 1905 not one-eighth took a public part. The difficulty was felt even more in the Presbyteries than in the monthly meetings, because the brethren in the English churches did not feel so readv as the Welsh brethren. The result ivas that many churches have been dependent on the help they could get from other de- nominations. The Rev Evan Davies. Trefriw, having seconded the adoption of the report, the Rev John Pritchard. Oswestry, strongly- opposed it. He quoted a statement that hundreds of preachers in the connexion were out of work every Sunday. There were plenty of workers, but a scarcity of j ° "t)rk. In his monthly riie, ting a deacon recently declared that the supply of min- isters increased more th an the demand- when they had a vaca-,at Sabbath, he re- ceived five application from ministers- some of them fro- Cardiganshire—who wished to supply. xSrow it was proposed to create a new O' £-der of preachers, which would intensify he evil. It would be wise at any rate to postpone the adoption of the report, until t savv- what would be done in connectio JJ with the centenarv of their ordination. Another speaker mentioned the desira- bility -° A rai-sing the status of the pulpit, u vere to get the people to come to chapf.j listen. This proposal, he said, amil,t laughter, opened a wider door for REÅHERS TO COME IN AND FOR LISTENERS TO GO OUT. The Rev O. J. Owen, Rock Ferry, said that in the Liverpool monthly meeting there were 18 mission churches and 15 mission rooms. They did not have a suffi- cieiit number of Calvinistic Methodists to fill these pulpits, and therefore they had to get Wesleyan and Congregational local preachers-there was some certainty as to these people's characters at any rate. But some had been asked to preach who, there was room to fear, lacked the necessary knowledge, eloquence, and character, and there was no supervision over them. The Rev T. C. Williams, Menai Bridge, supported the proposal, but remarked that perhaps the worst mishap which could be- fal some deacons was a desire to preach (laughter). At the same time, the provis- ion that only travelling expenses be paid would hinder any layman making a profit by their preaching. The Rev Evan Jones, Carnarvon, said that on a previous occasion he had been guilty of killing such a proposal. He had said he was ready to propose that a new- collection be introduced--for the people to come to listen to such lay preachers (laugh- ter). However, he sympathised with the committee that brought forward the recom- mendation, but suggested that it be con- fine(I to the Lancashire churches. Speak- ing not without something in his mind's eye, lie did not like to see a deacon going to officiate in a little chapel, and, after he had had what he wanted, they never saw him again (laughter). THE REV. ELIAS JONES. NEWTOWN, opposed the recommendation. They had at least 10*i ministers antk preachers who lacked a place to go to every Sunday, he said. Quoting official statistics, lie said that the ministers and preachers in Upper Montgomeryshire number 22. the jour- nevs also 22 in Lower Montgomeryshire there were 25 ministers and preachers, and 25 journeys." -The Montgomery Presby- tery had 17 ministers and preachers and 17 journeys." Lancashire had 413 preachers and 53 preaching places. In Manchester there was some deficit—only nine ministers and preachers and 17 preaching places— but in Liverpool they had 42 preaching places and 44 ministers and preachers, two too many. The Rev Elias Jones contended that they had already plenty of resources— the supply was greater than the demand. The Rev Thomas Jones, Rhostyllen, said that many churches paid as much as 8s for a lay preacher. It would be better for them to send to Bala-the student would have 4s at any rate to take home, and he would prefer that than have no place to go to on the Sunday. The Wesleyans had local preachers, but that denomination did not ordain a minister without guaranteeing him a church. When Calvinistic Metho- dists arrived at that stage, they could have as many local preachers as they liked. It was to be feared that the doors of weak churches would be opened to the proposed new order of lay preachers, and that many a preacher who had undergone years of training would suffer thereby. Alderman David Pryce (Guilsfied), who contributed THE ONLY SPEECH IN ENGLISH, supported the recommendation, and re- marked that he knew what could be done by statistics. The Montgomery Presbytery contained 17 churches, which had no regu- lar preacher every Sunday night in the year. Nine of them had scarcely any preachers on Sunday nights, but each of the 17 held a service, and the services were certainly not efficient. The suggestion made by the committee would be helpful to them. In their district they had a num- ber of educated young men—intermediate school teachers, professional men—good men—who would not approach the pulpit unless there was a good deal of pressure brought to bear upoi) them from high quar- ters. If the Association brought pressure to bear on these worthy and suitable men, they might render assistance occasionally to the small churches without considering that they were starting upon anything like a preacher's career. I The Rev Gwynoro Davies, Barmouth, ob- served that the statistics quoted as to the number of minister, and j,)uriievz; told the truth, but not the whole truth. There were "journeys" which included three chapels, and the preacher could not occupy the three places at the same time. Another minister objected to the wording of the committee's recommendation to set aside" lay preachers. He felt jealous of that word, and it was agreed to substitute call. By a majority the Association then adopted the committee's suggestions—to apply only to the Liverpool and Manches- ter Monthly Meetings and the Lancashire and Montgomery Presbyteries. It was decided to hold the next Associa- tion at Bangor on August 30th and 31st and September 1st. The subjects to be dis- cussed wil include The influence of the Newspaper Press on the national life." THE POOR LAW: "CAREFUL AND THOUGHTFUL CONSIDERATION." t T f 0' On the motion of the Rev John Owen, Carnarvon, seconded by the Rev John Hughes, Liverpool,, the Association adopted without any discussion the following reso- lution, which had been drafted bv a com- iiiittee:- "That we as an Association rejoice greatly that the cause of the poor and the defenceless is receiving so much attention and notice from the legislature, and look forward to the time when the causes of poverty are removed in so far as they can be removed by the introduction of better laws and more perfect social provisions. We rejoice in particular because the Gov- ernment of this country has appointed a Royal Commission to inquire into the causes of poverty and the condition of the poor, the poor laws and their administra- tions. and we strongly recommend all the members of our Association to give their careful and thoughtful attention to the con- sideration of the two report.- which were presented by the Commission. While we recognise the service that has been done and is being done by Boards of Guardians in this country, still we hope that His Majesty's present Government will do everything in its power to reform the poor- laws on the lines recommended by the Commission." INFORMATION ABOUT THE HOME MISSIONS. To stimulate interest in the home mis- sions of the connexion, a public meeting was held on Tuesday evening in the Welsh Independent Chapel. The Rev W. Thomas, who presided, said they were familiar with the Khassia Hill mission in India, but many knew little about the home missions amongst the Welsh in England, especially the North. Two hundred ministers be- longed to it, and did a great work. The Rev Richard Roberts, Colwvn Bay, having spoken, the Rev E. James Jones, Rhyl, secretary of the mission, said' that its activities extended from Dublin to Stafford, from Bardsey Island to Sunder- land, from Wokington, near Furness, to Pantydwr in Radnorshire. The churches )f Lower Montgomeryshire had contributed [ast year 1:87 to the funds, and received 115. Mr Edward Jones, Maesmawr Hall, who has been hon. treasurer to the mission for twelve years, said the Association had al- ways left him in debt, but he expected in a year or two to be above water. The col- lections in the North of England and Liver- pool last year totalled EI,800, and the ex- penses over £ 3,000. The interest from the 20th Century Endeavour Fund realized EI,260, and within the last two years E300 had been bequeathed. What troubled him was that the work had to suffer for lack of funds. They had been compelled to curtail supplies to ministers, who did splendid work. FREE CHURCH COUNCIL'S WELCOME. After others had spoken, the Rev John Evans, Llanfair, introduced a deputation from the local Free Church Council, con- sisting of Messrs D. Gittms, J. Lloyd Peate, and Rev Ivor Griffith (Welsh In- dependent), Rev J. G. Williams and Mr Samuel Ellis (Baptist), Rev W. J. Jones and Mr Joseph Watkins (Wesleyan). In voicing a welcome, the Rev Ivor Griffith remarked that when the Associa- tion first visited Llanfair many years ago, they had both their dinners and their meet- ings in a public house. Now they only had meals on licensed premises, and lie hoped that the next time they came not even that would be the case. The district was hon- oured by the presence of the Association, and all the denominations entertained feel- ings of warm regard towards the Calvinistic Methodists. The Calvinistic Methodist was a Welsh denomination, born and bred in Wales, where it had done splendid work. He could not help admiring their talent to acknowledge a reformer. Their denom- ination had been born in a revival, to which the Church of England gave no en- couragement. The Calvinistic Methodists had the talent of retaining the revival spirit, and had not lost sight of the import- ance of the pulpit. Mr Samuel Ellis remarked that Noncon- formity was strong in the district, which contained 15 chapels and one Anglican Church. The Rev Evan Jones, Carnarvon, ack- nowledged the welcome in a graceful and humorous speech. He saw no reason why the churches should not draw nearer to one another than they had been. ORDINATION SERVICE. An ordination service took place on Wed- -nesday morning in the Independent Chapel, where ten candidates were dedicated to the ministry:— Messrs W. R. Owen, Anglesey Gwilym H. Evans, B.A., Porthaethwy, Anglesey Hugh Edwards, Capel Coch, Anglesey S. Venniore Williams, B.A., Y Cysegr, Car- narvon O. H. Davies, Brynaerau, Car- narvon T. R. Jones, Caerwys George Whitfield Jones, Maesydref, Flint J. Christmas Lloyd. Barmouth Philip Morris, Rhriospardyn, Merioneth J. O. Jones, Graig, Upper Montgomery. The Rev J. Howell Hughes, Bala, deliv- ered the address on Church polity the candidates were catechised by the Revs Thomas Charles Williams, M.A., Menai Bridge, and William Thomas. With uplifted hands the assembly signified its approval of the candidates, and the Rev Richard Humphreys, Liverpool, delivered the usual "charge," describing the minis- ter's work as being one of the highest hon- ours and the greatest responsibility. FROM CARMEL TO BIRMINGHAM." At its fourth meeting on Wednesday af- ternoon, the Association re-assembled in the Calvinistic Methodist Chapel, where the veteran ex-Moderator from M eifocl-the Rev Edward Griffiths—presided during the tem- porary absence of the Rev William Thomas. The Rev D. B. Edmunds, Tregynon, pre- sented a report on the state of the denomin- ation in Lower Montgomeryshire. It showed that their monthly meeting was made up of 46 churches. Two had a mem- bership under 20, five others under 30, seven under 40, six under 50, five under 70, five under 80, and only nine over 100. The largest membership in one church was 195, and the average church membership 63. The 46 churches formed 24 Sabbath jourrf- eys and 21 pastoral charges, of which 16 were not under pastoral care, whilst the majority of the remainder had either se- cured or, were seeking a suitable man to serve them. Since 1904 debts had been paid off and repairs done to the extent of £ 3,790. The total debt on the chapels and houses was £ 4,755—18s 4d per listener or 32s 5d per member. Thirty chapels had no debt, and the indebtedness of others varied from F-30 5s to 2s 9d per member. The pastors num- bered 16, other ministers 3. preachers 3 communicants, 2,933 children. 1,385 candidates for membership, 28 listeners, 845 total congregations, 5,191 Sunday School officers and teachers, 532, other members, 3,349 number of libraries, 21 collections towards the ministry, P-1,674 average per member, lis 2d; congrega- tional collections, £ 382 district collec- tions, E457 total collections, £ 3,305. Sun- day school was held in 51 chapels, school- rooms, and dwelling houses. Eight quar- terly meetings were held in the year. They should like to see a better representation of the churches, yet when they considered that they were so scattered, they had little room to complain-the distance from Car- mel to Birmingham was about 8U miles. They believed that their ministers were faithful to preach Christ as the only Saviour, and that they were sound in the faith. REVIVAL RESULTS. The report included a summary by the Revs Edward Griffith, Meifod, and John Evans, Llanfair, of the result of the in- quiries into the state of the churches. The lasting efforts of the revival were noted as follows:— I. The prayer meeting being held weekly instead of monthly. 2. The missionary prayer meeting on the first Monday night in each month restarted and established. 3. More taking part in these meetings. The women and maidens continuing in many places to take part themselves. 4. A Band of Hope established in many places, and being carried on almost entirely by the young people. 5. A greater desire for knowledge-the literary meeting being desired, and interest taken in it. 6. More talk about religious matters amongst the members, and more intensity and seriousness marking the lives of most of them. The Rev D. B. Edmunds emphasised the indebtedness of the district to the revival. Whatever it had done in other districts, he • said, it had been invaluable in lower Mont- gomeryshire. The Rev John Hughes, Liverpool, speak- ing as one who had lived nine years in Montgomeryshire, said that the people in the county stood very high in Wales as at- tentive listeners and gentle members. CHRISTENINGS AT HOME. The Rev John Williams, Brynsiencyn, Anglesey, called attention to the report that in Lower Montgomeryshire the ordnance of baptism was mostly administered in dwell- ing houses. It was a church ordnance, he urged, and should be celebrated in the chapel, and except under exceptional cir- cumstances, not in the home. The Rev Edward Griffiths explained that m remote districts, where the family lived three or four miles from the chapel, it would be difficult to bring the child to chapel in winter. So he took the church to the dwelling house they never per- formed the rite there unless there was a deacon present and a houseful of members a service was then held, and perhaps a ser- mon was preached. Their greatest diffi- culty, said Mr Griffiths, was the language problem. He rarely preached' or prayed ] without speaking in English as well as Welsh. In Llanfair there were half-a-dozen people who attended the Methodist Chapel, ( though they understood no Welsh. If the service were conducted in Latin, still there 1 they would attend (laughter). In the par- s ish church alone would they have English 3ervices. At Meifod he gave the points of t I :he sermon and a part of the prayer in < Welsh. In a small congregation he had < counted 19. children and adults who under- < itood only English. Mr Griffiths explained ] that the day schools and teachers were An- < glican and English. The Rev John Evans, Llanfair, confessed that in his district the ordnance of baptism did not receive the attention it deserved, and the Association adopted the report and decided to call the attention of churches to' the fact that it was a church ordnance, and that it should not be celebrated in the home except under extraordinary circum- stances. MORE PLAS DINAM GENEROSITY. The Rev E. J. Jones, Rhyl, presented the committee's report on the Home Missions and English Churches' Fund. On the Home Missions Fund they owed £695 to the treasurer, £440 less than the previous year. The accounts of the English Churches Fund had been submitted by the Treasurer (Mr John Owens, Chester). The amount received hitherto was £542. £316 had been received towards paying off the debt to the treasurer of this, £300 came from Mrs Edward Davies, Miss Davies, and Miss M. S. Davies, Llandinam. It was recommended to the Asociation to pass sin- cerest and warmest thanks to Mrs Edward Davies and the Misses Davies for their great generosity, and the great relief to the fund by their worthy gifts. The Rev E. J. Jones remarked that Mr John Owens had visited Mrs Davies and the Misses Davies at Plas Dinam with re- gard to the state of the fund. How much will you be satisfied with ? he was asked. I shall be satisfied with £100 each," he replied. And so it was (applause). SHOULD MONTHLY MEETING MEM- BERS BE TOTAL ABSTAINERS? An interesting discussion was provoked by the following resolution from the Lan- cashire Presbytery:— That inasmuch as the Association at Llanidloes expressed its approval of the, six Monthly Meetings and Presbyteries which have made total abstinence a con- dition of membership of the said six Monthly Meetings and Presbyteries, and as these are acting beyond their power, and that the other Monthly Meetings and Pres- byteries might have an opportunity of mak- ing their voice known to the Association, we respectfully ask the Association to refer the question of total abstinence as a con- dition of membership of Monthly Meetings and Presbyteries to all the Monthly Meet- ings and Presbyteries so that their voice may be heard and a decision taken upon I the question as the result of their decisions." The Rev Thomas Jones, Rhostyllen, said it was, rather unfortunate that Monthly Meetings acted contrary to one another in the matter, and pleaded for uniformity. The Rev John Owen, as secretary, quoted the report of the Temperance Committee, which had been appointed to inquire how the regulations of the Association were ob- served by the Monthly Meetings. Six Monthly Meetings made total abstinence a condition of membership of the Monthly meetings, nine did not do so. The Com- mittee rejoiced to learn that the temperance feeling continued to grow in the Monthly Meetings, and they should like to see every Monthly Meeting reach the higher standard set by six, and it would be well for the Association to give every encouragement and carry out the present rules in appoint- ing deacons. The Rev Robert Richards, Rhyl, thought that the matter should be decided by the Association rather than that the Monthly Meetings should lead. The Rev Evan Jones described the pre- sent system in the Churches and the Monthly Meetings as one of local option. It. was desired to have a prohibition law, but though he himself was a temperance crank—he would never drink alcoholic liquor except by mistake—(laughter)—yet it woul'd serve no purpose to legislate UNLESS SUPPORTED BY PUBLIC OPINION. He would not support a regulation which would cause men to mock, and he con- sidered it was no trifling matter to break a promise. Let the Churches and Monthly Meetings have local option, but he doubted the desirability of compelling rather than persuading people to accept their views on the subject. A Doctor with whom he stayed jat Llanfair, told him that the wave of tem- perance which had come over the country was most wonderful. The Rev J. D. Evans, B.A., Liverpool, agreed with Mr Evan Jones' views, but drew attention to the resolution's contention that the Monthly Meetings, which made total abstinence a condition of their mem- bership, had exceeded their powers. The Rev John Williams said it was well that the Monthly Meetings were zealous enough to pass such a total abstinence reso- lution, although it was open to question whether these were the most temperate. What was the use of stirring up the counties again about the matter ? Some people were intoxicated with it, and some very extreme statements had been made. The "resolution to make total abstinence a necessary qualifi- cation had been supported by some people in whom there was not much confidence as regards either their character or their tem- perance—their history was known through- out the years. Would it not be well to be satisfied with the strong opinion that the Association had expressed, and leave the Monthly Meetings to make their own bye- laws on the subject ? The Rev E. J. Jones Rhyl, moved that the Association did not think it would serve any good purpose to pass any resolution on the subject so soon after the expression of opinion at Llanidloes. The Rev Evan Jones suggested that the resolution be worded that at the present time they were satisfied with that clear: expression of opinion at Llanidloes. The Association adopted this suggestion. DISESTABLISHMENT DISQUIET. The last item on the agenda read "Other matters," and the Rev David Davies, Wal- ham Green, London, rose to call attention to some subject. But the Secretary also rose, and said he understood Mr Davies intended to move a resolution on Dises- tablishment. That subject had not been considered by the Association at all, and they did not often permit a matter to be introduced in this manner unless it had been first considered by the preliminary committee. He (the Rev John Owen) did not know that at the present time Dises- tablishment was very prominently before the country. But the Association could pass a resolution allowing Mr Davies to bring it forward. The Rev David Davies said it was not exactly the question of Disestablshment he wished to bring forward, but the depu- tation of Welsh members that had been and would go to interview the Prime Min- ister on the subject. The Rev Elias Jones, Newtown, proposed that the matter be not considered. The Cabinet, he said, had been in very strait- ened circumstances, and, he thought, had put themselves into RATHER AN UNHAPPY POSITION. The Cabinet had quite enough to do at present. The Rev Evan Jones agreed with Mr Elias Jones. They were quite clear on the question of Disestablishment the only thing was which of the many passing ques- tions would take precedence. The Rev John Hughes, Liverpool, pointed out that many of the delegates had departed, and the matter had better be de- ferred. The Chairman thought the last item, "Other matters," would include Mr David Davies' proposal, but the Secretary inter- preted this to mean matters that had been ilready considered by the committee. The Chairman: The item should be put ] lown in those words 'then.. < 1 The Rev John Hughes said the Secretary 1 lad interpreted the agenda, and they < ihould accept his version. I ( The Rev John Williams said they should 11 lave more faith in the Cabinet. The re-1 t sent deputation of Welsh members had i lone little good.—(The Rev David Davies: Question! Question !)-He did not give hi personal opinion, but it was the opinion of someone more important than the depu- tation altogether. The Rev Robert Richards, Rhyl, seconded the Rev Elias Jones' proposal that the mat- ter be not discussed. The Rev Evan Jones moved the pre- vious question." Thereupon the Rev David Davies intimated that he would not press the matter, which was then dropped.

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