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THE CHURCH IN WALES.

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THE CHURCH IN WALES. MEETING AT MONTGOMERY. SPEECHES BY MR. STANLEY LEIGHTON, M.P., AND MR. R. W. WILLiAMS-W\Ms. On Wednesday evening a public meeting was held at the Town Hall, Montgomery, to hear ad- dresses bv Mr. Stanley Leighton, M.P., and Mr. R. W. Williams-Wynn, the Conservative candidate lor the county, on the subject of the Disestablish- ment and Disendowment of the Church in Wales. Col Harrison presided, being supported on the platform bv Mr Stanley Leighton, M.P., Mr R. W. Williams- Wynn, Rev E. W. Brown, Mr R. E. Jones, Cefn-Bryntalch, and Mr F. N Garnett, Berriew. Amongst those present were Rev J P. Morgan, Llandvssil, Councillor W. Jones, Mr J Shuker, Mr A. G: Montford, Churchstoke, the Misses Jones, Cefn-Brvntalch, Mr C. Shuker, Messrs F. and R. Langford, Court, nndMr J. Edwards, Montgomery. The CHAIRMAN on rising was received with great cordiality, and in opening the proceedings said th >v were met there that night to hear a sub. ject discussed which was of the greatest possible interest to them all. A proposal had been made to disestablish and disendow the church in Wales, that was to say, than portion of the church which was situated in Wales. They would no doubt be told by those gentlemen who had come to address them, many interesting details with regard to the church. He, speaking as a layman, felt that it was of the greatest advantage that they should be, both officially and unofficially, as churchmen, connected with the state, because he believed that that con- nection between church and state was one which was for the manifest interest of both. He was speaking entirely for himself, but he must say that the enemy being at the gate, this was entirely the wrong moment to put forward any scheme to weaken the church (applause). He entirely dis- agreed with the proposal to disestablish the church. He could not understand the reason for that pro- posal, and he hoped that it would be withdrawn (applause). Mr. R. W. WILLIAMS-WYNN, after a few pre- liminary remarks, proceeded as follows Is this the time to attack what even our opponents allow to be an active and a growing church ? Are we, as christians, sufficiently stiong in our religion that we can, with safety to ourselves, with safety to our country, afford to weaken and cripple so great a power for good ? Let us look at one example and ask—Are we, as a nation, in a religious sense, everywhere gaining ground ? You will all agree, that during the past 30 years the Nonconformists have been the attacking party. Armcd with a most powerful press, especially in the vernacular, they have not scrupled to use its influence o Utmost, while the church has gone on quieuy working its way into our lives and homes, rus for its defence to the result of its labours. The attacks of late have been fierce, and may be saia to have reached their height during the last few years. Look what effect they have had on the observance of religion as regards marriages in Wales. During the past 30 years the marriages celebratea in Nonconformist places of worship have e_ practically without change from first to last III proportion to the total marriages. They have only increased by a decimal, from 25*2 per cent. in the live years 1856-70 to 25*8 in 1891-2. But the marriages with no religious ceremony have, the same periods, advanced from 24 3 per cent. to 336 per cent. And mark, that as the battle grows fiercer, the rcc-iders from religion increase. the figures of the Registrar-General show for the four years, 1833-92, an advance of nearly 1,000 per annum without any semblance o "ars ceremony over the averages o „raduallv previous. Does not that show tha we a, < drifting from religion altogether, an to be the dearest wish of every pastor, who claIms of the rich, not the church of the poor. Is that of the rich, not the church of the poor. Is that reallv so ? Would it not be more true to say that it is not only the church of the rich but of the very poor as well (applause). Do not our towns point to this, and is it not a well-known fact that very many of our parishes have no resident minister. And yet in those parishes there must be the same call for sympathy and care as in the larger parishes, the difference being in number alone. To whom then must the appeal be made ? Under the establishment every man, woman or child has the to the of the pri8h dergyman in the nraei in vain ? Have not they out of their own often too scanty store, done their utmost to relieve and help their people in distress ? (applause). But I do not wish to imply that the Noncon- formists are in any way unmindful of the duties of attending and relieving the poor and sick far from it. I grant them every wish and desire not only to do their duty, but to do more than their duty. It is not their fault, but the faalt 6 voluntary system, under which their funds are inadequate, and almost entirely taken mp by the demands of the ministry. This they must know and feel, and yet we see by this Bill an attempt to bring the Church to the same condition. And for whose benefit ? Will this money be given to the other denominations for them to carry on the work ? No. It will be taken away to secular purposes, for museums and the such like. again the support given to hospitals, iniirmaries, etc., during the last 50 years. By the Church party £251,833 was given, whilst the amount con- tributed by Nonconformists was £24,000 on^7- During 1392 the Church party gave £ 11,574, and the Nonconformists £ 2,978. I do not put forward these figures to in anyway disparage Noncon- formists, nor do I forget that the Church has many rich people ÏJ: her following, but in the face of these facts, and in the face of their own official figures, which ciaim but 47 per cent of the popu a ticn, it is hard to believe the boast we have so often heard that our nation is a nation o on • formists (applause). Take another vievv^ o^^ en«agi»/wayof taking an optimistic view of things. while ago, lie put the proceeds ot the Oh uh at £ 300,000. I11 South Wales, lately, he> knocked off £ 100,000, stating that the an^untwas over £ 200,000. The next time he speak* p j will knock off another £ 50,000. It is as the leaders of a party to be as i^ul C!iurch stances permit. The gross endowments proposed to stualler sum of £ 284,000. This is made up of a. > :llld £ 67,003 derived from rent of from the money iu the Funds, and the „ ,qIlith's own tithe, £ 217,000. According to Mi. 25 shewing, assisted, remember^ Vle for cost of per cent must be knocked off t tUho Jg collection, rates, taxes, etc. 1 « corn 1)as dependent on tiie price of corn; •- With this, suffered we, alas know only too y. e • })(; even Mr. Ellis, from his early tnumng,J^t expected to bo familiar, but I f»PP distress eussion. or even mention, of agricultural would, in his opinion, embarrass his party, ancl<f! ,a. waste of tin,so bo cl.oo^ the ojher Of pretended ignorance. £ 100 ot titn £ averages was worth £ 74 4s.,coascq™ a tin ^25 16s. per cent, must be deducted J ™ n'ake up for the fall in valu%00/ySQ That is the of £ 157,000 not over P»at dfc. 'Sw in estates aie two sides, and in mbu o pleasures, you accept the burdens as we d cUoos- iLere is no such convenience as f,hlirchestate Ae first chazge on the Welsh Omucn 7141 ^'he euueati.n of her children. ^[y-fric of foment the Church educatet- the the raiepavcr 73,800 ^^ll^hooViK will neopDg o £ tbe Hlil the voll''Ua 7 i'sOU children eceseuri^ be closCd. Vet £ oard Schools tt>i« he educated, and on ]ioard School rl' duty must devolve. The pv^ent i 0 t vS00 -II be- nù to. to 1'np.)j y ',d(lj I iunal seLlOol accotnillO 'li eniov ^'iJU'e;1 at once' whiie ,C C theirs for theij 3 «oy the elei,<Ty will remain Pfvme in for T «"»«* £ • a"-V Cm:F Tm and tei! me wlici. roat*- Calc,lll"c w we not now W"ue ,ue profit comes (applaui-e). A"- bur. oi'oaini;:r uudci. tj)e weight of rates a aircady '( ? 1, not the future dark enough (applaase). On what does the pio^pcn y every gomerv depend, of Welshpool, ot doei; town and village of Montgomei.yshiie ci.ons '{ the money ci mc from that circu»ates m j 0 Who are your customers ? Are they no raer.s, t.iie labourers, and the host of 0 j inake their living on or from the laud (app Strike a blow at them and >'ou hit you Wound them, and you in. your turn nius Place an additional burden of £100,000 on the rates and know the consequence of your act, By all means reform the Church where she is in ncec of of reform (applause). No institution in this world is perfect. So direct your hand that her power and efficiency to help the poor and needy may be increased and not diminished, that the ministers standing shoulder to shoulder with Non- conformists may be more able to fight the growing evil of indifference and irreligion (loud applause). Mr. STANLEY LEIGHTON, M. P., whose rising was greeted with applause, congratulated them that Mr. Wynn had shown such a mastery of the subject on which he had spoken in a spirit of kindliness and im- partiality-a spirit which showed that Mr. Wynn respected himself, and in respecting himself he respected the opinions of those who differed from him (cheers.) In that spirit lie (Mr. Leighton) would try to follow him (applause.) In Mont- gomeryshire they knew, roughly speaking, how the religious communities were divided. The number of Calvinists was about 12,000, Indepen- dents 7,000, Wesleyans 4,000, and Baptists 2,000, altogether, they amounted to 25,000. The popula- tion of Montgomeryshire was 58,000. He did not wish to comment on those figures, but would now pass on to the question of arguments upon that matter. The Church, said their opponents, was established, the Chapel was not; the Church is paid by the State the Chapel is not; the Church and the Chapel should be treated alike, and in reference to property there should be an equality. Therefore, said they, the Church should be disestablished and disendowed. If those premises were true, he would be a Liberationist. If those premises were sup- ported by fact, ho would be with those who pro- posed disestablishment and disendowment (cheers) But let him state the case as it appeared to him to be true. The Church and the Chapel were both established; neither Church nor Chapel were paid for by the State; and the property of the Church and Chapel should both be protected in precisely the same way, by the law. Therefore neither Church nor Chapel should be disestablished and disendowed (loud cheers). They saw that their difference was not in arguments, but in facts. He wished to bring before them the facts of the case, because he was perfectly certain that truth would prevail. If the truth of that matter was brought home to the minds of the people, there would be an end of that attack upon the Church. Mr. Leighton then proceeded to give chapter and verse in proof of his contention, and afterwards devoted considerable attention to a close analysis of Lord Rosebery's and other statesmen's speeches upon the subject. In conclusion he said that a Government which proposed such a scheme of plunder and spoliation as had been shadowed forth, was doomed. Rev. E. W. BROWN proposed a vote of thanks to Mr. Stanley Leighton and Mr. R. W. Williams- Wynn for their most able and instructive ad. dresses. Mr. JOHN EDWARDS seconded, and the re- solution was carried uuanimously. A vote of thanks to the chairman, on the motion A vote of thanks to the chairman, on the motion of Councillor W. JONES, seconded by Mr. T. II. CEORGE, concluded the meeting.

FORDEN BOARD OF GUARDIANS.I

* L LW YD IAIITH.

LLANFYLLIN.

TOWN COUNCIL. < 1 V.

COUNTY PETTY SESSIONS.

LLANTIHANCTEL.

CARREGHOFA.

CHIRPLTRY.

LLANDYSSIL.

LLANWNOG.

LLANBADARN.,

NEWTOWN.

THE R. W. W. RECREATION AND…

LLANWNOG.

LLANIDLOES.

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR,

LLANFAIR PARISH COUNCIL. !

. WHITTINGTON.

OSWESTRY.

| COUNTY PETTY SESSIONS.