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CORRESPONDENCE.
CORRESPONDENCE. LETTERS TO THE EDITOR. To CORRESPONDENTS. — Communications for this column should be addressed to the Editor, and must be written V,10n one side of the paper only, They should in all crises be accompanied by the name and address of the sender, not necessarily for publication but as a guarantee of good faith. THE PAPAL CONTROVERSY. I To the Editor of the COUNTY TIMES AND POST. SIR,—Mr. 'Williams's "friendl, manner" of dis- cussing points raised by Messrs. Dalton, Packman, and alsh, seems to have resolved itself into a display of che:a> and offensive sarcasm. It is signi- ficant. bye the bye, that he does not style his Church Holy. Catholic and Apostolic, the full designation of the Kingdom of God on earth. As Mr. Williams trulv observes, Holy Scripture teaches abstinence frem any sort of ambition or desire of pre-eminence in one Apostle above another. But by what process of logic can it be argued from this that our Lord did not invest St. Peter with supremacy ? Could not Mr. Williams be raised to pre-eminence in his own sphere, whatever it may be, without it necessarily following that he was ambitious or desirous of such pre-eminence Y The commission Whosoever sins ye remit," etc., simply | shows that all the Apostles received the power to forgive or retain tnnsgressions against God, a which the humblest priest in the Church ]v:ss«ss< If therefore, priests have the power in coinmon with bishops, who are their superiors, the 1a"; rir-tr St. Pete r's fe>: :>v,apostles had it incommon witii ,,unseli\ is no proof that he possessed no jurisdictional pre-eminence. Mr. Dalton has re- marked that there are three texts in the Bible directly bearing upon the subject whereupon Mr. Williams exclaims Not a very formidable list certainly." Is, then, a formidable list of Scriptural texts necessary for the demonstration of any doctrine ? Surely not. I take it that even only one such text is sufficient, provided it teach the doctrine to which it is applied. The clause in the Creed of Pius IV., cited by Mr. Williams does not bind Catholics to interpret Scripture only accord- ing to the unanimous consent of the Fathers. It simply forbids any interpretation which is opposed to such consent. As the fathers are not unani- mously agreed as to what the Rock" is, in Matt, xvi. 18., we latter-day Catholics are not acting in contrariety to the ruling of Pope Pius IV., when we understand the Church to be built on St. Peter. If our interpretation is not the right one, will Mr. Williams be so good as to enlighten us in regard to this very important matter ? In order to convert his consiliar quotations into proofs against Papal Supremacy, he must show that the appointment of a bishop by all the bishops in his province, excluded confirmation by the Pope, and that the direction to bishops not to go out of their dioceses, applied to the Bishop of Rome. It is true that the bishops at Constantinople styed Jerusalem u the Mother of all the Churches." But in what sense ? Was it meant that Jerusalem dominated the rest of Christendom ? Well, hardly, I should say, when we come to con- sider that, s early eyea aOs the Nicene Council, the Church of which St. James had been the first bis- hop, was subject to the Metropolitan of Cæsarea. Mr. Williams drags St. Cyprian to the bar as an anti-Papal witness, and the saint dares to speak of The chair of Peter and the ruling Church, whence the unity of the priesthood has its source (Ep. 59 ad Cornel), and of Rome as "the root and womb of the Catholic Church (Ep. 45 ad. Cornel). Mr. Williams's witnesses for the prosecution are really witnesses for the defence. It is well known, for instance, that St. Irteneus speaks of the necessity of all churches being in communion with Rome, on account of its more powerful principality. St. Iræneus's reproof of Pope St. Victor was no denial of the latter supremacy. Other saints and prelates have reproved Bishops of Rome, but have also asserted their jurisdictional pre-eminence, (e.g. St. Bernard, and Grossetete, Bishop of Lincoln). As for St. Jerome, he is so indisputable a witness on the Catholic side, that the passage which Mr. Williams quotes from him, evidently means that, in their sacerdotal capacity, all bishops are equal, a proposition which no Romanist" would contest. One word more. The following genuine ante- Nicene passage from St. Cyprian testifies to St. Peter's connection with Rome. Cornelius was chosen Bishop of Rome when the place of Peter and the rank of the sacerdgtal chair was vacant."— Obediently yours, 31, Arthur Road, ACG. J. HILTON. North Brixton, London, S.W. Feb. 20th, 1394,
To the Editor of the COUSTY…
To the Editor of the COUSTY TIMES AND POST. SIR,—Your correspondent, who veils his historic learning under the modest initials J.W.J. must think we are very simple folk, when he invites us to take his word for it that the ancient service books of the Pre-Reformation Church are re- presented by the Book of Common Prayer." This is continuity with a vengeance! Does J.\V.J." think none of us can ever have seen a Sarum or Hereford Breviary or Missal ? Having seen many specimens of them myself, I am able to testify that the Common Prayer bears just about the same amount of resemblance to the old Catholic liturgy as it does to Johnson's Dictionary. The old English Uses" were one and all Roman liturgies, only slightly varied forlocal requirements, and in the Canon of the Mass (the very core of the liturgy) they followed the" Use" of the diocese of Rome almost word for word. Consequently the service books used by (Roman) Catholics in this country at the present day are substantially the same as those which were used here before the Reformation. On the other hand, the Common Prayer (besides being in English instead of Latin) is a compilation of Queen Elizabeth's Council, made an exhibit to an Act of her Parliament. It is true that the compilers foisted a few extracts from the old Uses into the new work, but there all connection between the two services begins and ends. The silly story about the Pope's offering to approve the Common Prayer has been refuted time after time. But fables of the continuity type thrive on disproof.—I am, ifcc., JOHN HOBSOX MATTHEWS, Cardiff, 21st February, 1894.
To the Editor of the COUNTY…
To the Editor of the COUNTY TIMES ATND POST. SIR,—J. W. J. would do well to follow his own advice and read ecclesiastical history again, and read it more carefully before rushing into print." A more surprising exhibition of ignorant arrogance is not often met with, than it is to be found in his letter. He tells us (1) that the Celtic Church which converted North Britain was a daughter of the British Church. This is romance not history. Now the fact is that these prelates of supposed British origin' (Ardan, Diuma and his'successors) were bishops of Irish origin, and their religious system was not of native growtfi, but the same which St. Patrick had taken with him to Ireland from Rome; that the only National Church of which Diuma and his successors were members was the Church of Ireland, and that not a single county from London to Edinburgh can point to the British Church as it's nursing mother in the faith of Christ" (Anglo Saxon Church, vol. 1, p. 43, Lingard.) They brought here the faith of St. Patrick, who in the BOJk of Armagh (p. 9), copied from the m.s. written, by hi. own, hand told his disciples "As you are children of Christ, so be ye children of Rome (O'Curry's lectures, p. 372 and Petrie's essay in Tara, p. 81.) It may be true that St. Augustine personally converted only the inhabitants of Kent, but it is not necessary or even possible for the founder of a Church to have personally converted all the inhabitants. In a severe reprimand addressed to Church Defenders' of the J. W.J. stamp, for writing supervious history the Anglican Guardian, January 3rd, 1894, points out that as a matter of historical fact which it is useless to attempt to deny, St. Gregory and St. Augustine did found the English Church. It says, A.D., 601, that St. Gregory sent along with the palUitma letter authorizing the creation of two provinces in England and imparting to St. Augustine metropolitical jurisdiction over the southern province and primatial or rather vicarial jurisdiction ovar both provinces," and adds that those who write controversy on behalf of the English Church "ought to take more care to be j more accurate." (2) The writer asks for proof that the Ecclesia Anglicana" was ever called the "Holy Roman Church." Of proof there is plenty. In 1246 the English bishops assembled at Westminster and in an official document declared that "the said kingdom of England was especially devoted to the most Holy Roman Church." The English clergy on the same occasion deelared that the English Church was a special member of the most Holy Roman Church," and that they were "faithful and devoted sons of the most Holy Roman Church." The English barons also declared, Our mother, the Roman Church, we love and cherish as our duty is," and the English King declares" his supreme affection for our Mother the Holy Roman Church" (Mathew Paris Giles, transl. pp 137, 152, lg4, l55). Such instances might bo indefinitely multiplied did space allow. (3) The writer says that our service books are not the same as those used before the Reformation. This is another blunder. The English Uses were copied from tho Roman ur.e It was ordered by the Council of Cloveshoe, 747, that in the office of Baptism, in the celebration of Masses, in the manner of chant, should be cele. brated according to the copy which we have from the Roman Church" (Hefele. Concil. iii, p. 562). In Maskell's Ancient Liturgy and his Monu- menta Ilitualia" will be found printed side by side tho English uses of the Canon of the Mass and the Roman II."C. They agree part by part and almost word for word with tho Romanue, and are as like the Communion Service as St. Michael is like Lucifer. It is only in those parts added after the English uses were drawn up that there is any difference. The assertion that Pius IV offered to sanction the Prayer Book is an exploded fable, which rests upon a certain charge of Judge Coke's said to have been delivered at Norwich. Coke, however, in tho Preface to his Seventh Law Report, denounces the charge as a shameful and shame- Jess forgery, and calls the author a wicked falsary." (4) The assertion that out of 9,400 only some 189 refused to conform in Elizabeth's time is another exploded fable. Green (History of tho English People, ii, p. 302) tells us that the historical fact is Of the nine thousand and four hundred beneficed clergy only a tenth presented themselves before tho Commissioners. Of those who attended and re- fused the oath, a hundred and eighty-nine were deprived, but many of the most prominent went unharmed." The visiters report returns only 806 conformists for the whole of England (Lansdowne m.s. c. 14, p. 7). When will Church defenders learn that Church Defence History is a delusion and a snare, which only exposes them to be tripped up with ignominy every time they trot it out in public ? When J. W. J. has learned a littlo history J perhaps he will have time to learn manners and to understand that to christen the old Catholic gentry and nobility, whose names are household words in English County History, members of the Italian Mission, only 40 years is not only a mis- nomer, but an impertinence, which is not likely to bring much credit to him or to his cause. 34, Trent Road, J. D. BKERN. Brixton, London. ♦
To the Editor of the CuCXTY…
To the Editor of the CuCXTY TIMES AXD POST. SIR,—I thank Mr. Dalton for his flattering, if somewhat gratuitous, remarks respecting my learn- ing, &c., and very deeply regret, under the circum- stances, that I cannot faithfully return the compli- ment. In reply to my question in your issue of the 17th inst., What proof has Mr. Dalton that St. Peter was ever Bishop of Rome." he says" Protestant historians with rare exceptions now generally admit Peter's sojourn in Rome," which of course finally disposes of the question Truly the argu- ments of our Roman-Protestant friends are, if not weighty, at least amusing. Mr. Dalton proceeds to say Linus is named as the first Bishop of Rome after Peter," and then gives a quotation from Irenceus, the effect of which is to lead those of your readers who are not acquainted with the usual total disregard for accuracy exhibited by members of the Society of Ransom to suppose that he is quoting the actual words of Irenceus. What then will be their sur- prise to learn that the words" aIter Peter" exist only in the futile imagination of Air. Dalton him- self ? So much for Roman honesty. He then goes on to say the testimony of St. Irenceus is absolutely decisive on the point of Papal Supremacy." Indeed And why so, pray ? It is not the individual opinion of this or that ancient writer, but the general concurrence of all in certain great principles, that establishes the truth or untruth of those principles. It has been the rule, as a matter of fact, from the very first for the Church to teach the truth and then to appeal to Scripture in vindication of its own teaching. St. Athanasius says These (the Canonical books) are the fountains of Salvation that he who thirsts may be satisfied. In these alone tho doctrines of Salva- tion are proclaimed." And again" The sacred and divinely inspired Scriptures are sufficient to show as the truth." Cyril of Jerusalem says Trust no word unless thou dost learn it from Holy Scripture (Catech xii Ilium.) St. Basil says Every word and everything ought to be made credible or believed by the testimony of the divinely inspired Scriptures" (Ethic Definit 26}. SJk, Jertwoo which we say we ought to prove from Scripture. If therefere Mr. Dalton, or anyone of our Italian friends, be able to bring any one sufficient sentence out of the Holy Scriptures, or out of any old Catholic Doctor or Father, or out of any old General Council whereby it may be clearly and plainly proved that the Bishop of Rome was then called an Universal Bishop or the Head of the Universal Church, I promise that I will give over and subscribe unto him. I will not dwell upon the sinfulness of the Roman Church in arrogating to herself the two powers of infallibility and Supremacy, but will conclude with the following quotation as shewing what they lead to :—" When I heard him (tho Pope) sing mass I cannot express what I felt; it was the God of earth prostrate in adoration before tho God of heaven (Life of Mother Margaret Mary Hallahan, with a preface by Bishop Ullathorne, page 430). Surely a church which encourages such rank blasphemy is indeed corrupt. I am quite content that the monoply of impreca- tion should remain in the undisputed possession of Ransomers. Past experience of these gentlemen teaches me that it is too much to expect that they will shew any regard to literary etiquette and ordinary courtesy. But one would at least expect that before Mr. Dalton accused me of borrowing weak arguments he would have restrained himself from copying verbatim out of a notorious work on this subject without so much as using the innocent but useful quotation marks. I am not surprised to learn that Mr. Dalton was a Protestant previous to his joining the Roman schism, because it is from Protestantism that Rome gets all her converts. Had he ever been a member of the Catholic Church of this country he would in all probability not be a Ransomer now. Sir, J. have already trespassed largely upon your valuable space, but kindly allow me to quote the following as it will probably havo greater weight with Messrs. Dalton, and Co., than any words of mine :—Our own branch (the Church of England) may surely be considered among us as the voice of her who has been in the world, even one and the same since Christ came. Surely sho comes up to the theory she professes to be the Catholic Church and to transmit that Qne, ancient, Catholic faith and she does transmit it." (Newman on Romanism, p. 320.) Yours truly, Oswestry, C. H. WILLIAMS. Feb. 26th, 1894. ♦
To the Editor of the COUNTY…
To the Editor of the COUNTY TIMES AND POST. Mr. C. H. Williams professes to be puzzled at my statement:—" The Anglican Church is not the Church of my baptism. If I wcrevalidly baptised at all when my parents held me at the font in an Anglican Church (of which I have grave doubts), I was certainly not baptised into Anglicanism but into the world wide spiritual society known as the Catholic Church." As a matter of fact, when I determined to submit to the authority of the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church I was asked to declare whether I had received valid baptism ? and the inquiries I mado and my own judgment convinced me that very grave doubt existed. The Anglican Minister who went through the ceremony of baptism when I was brought to him as an infant, was an uncompromising adherent of the Low Church or Calvinistic party in the happy family known as Anglicanism, and, like thou- sands of his fellow clergy then and now, ridiculed the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. A man of his theological views would not be careful, of couise, t > p .ur the water over or upon the head, so as to toueu the skin, as is absolutely necessary for validitv, and probably contented himself with "sprinkling upon the face or forehead, as is stili done by m wi v Anglican clergymen. Under these circumstances, I took the wise precaution when I became a Catholic, to be baptized conditionally— that is to say—the Catholic Church assured me that if I h-ul not already been baptised, I was now baptised, :1I!, as a logical sequence, it followed that if been baptised validly by an Anglican minister, the second ceremony performed ty the Catholic priest who received me into the Church, being conditional' was not re-baptism," but absolutely null and void. Mr. Williams will now gather that I have no doubts" whatever as to my baptism, inasmuch as the Catholic Church, by her merciful act, has made good or supplied, any loss or defect due to my previous condition as an Anglican. It is hardly necessary to add that, so far from having hatred," intense or mild, for the Church of my baptism I love her profoundly and would die for her sate. But I have nothing but contempt for the Protetant reformed religion," whether established or unestablished I have no desire to waste pence upon the two-penny half-penny collection of si-called Church history which Mr. Nye (or is his aame Lye?), the compiler appro- priately dubs a story"; I prefer to go to recognised aufaorities and to impartial records. I notice, witlout surprise, that my quotations from the Anglcan Freeman and The Guardian, showing the Roman Catholicism of the pre- Reformation Ihurch, and that she was never independent' of the spiritual supremacy of Rome have no even been alluded to, much more criticised. Aid, further, my challenge to Mr. Helm, the pan lecturer of the Church Defence Institution," t< discuss this point, has not yet been responded to. Good! "J.W.J." next refers to my letter, and,coolly passing over the crushing authority of Ir. Freeman that the Church of England is the daughter of the Church of Rome. Englard was the special conquest of the Roman Church" has the impudence to hint that I was ignorant of the existence of the British Church long be'ore St. Augustine landed, and of the fact that Celtic missionaries assisted in the founding of theAnglo-Saxon Church The latter statement can accounted for afr once by the historical fact tiat these Celtic missionaries were Irish monks, fo lowed by St. Patrick, who was sent to evangelise Ireland by Pope St. Celestine, and whose last message to his people was to implore them to be thoroughly Roman" in their Christianity. "Ut Christiani, ita et Romani sitis," declared the Apostle of Ireland, and the faithful Irish hive nobly followed his advice. The same corr pondent endeavours to make out some mysterious connection between the aucient British and the present Anglican Church Here again, in refutation, it is only necessary to cite learnod non-Catholic authorities. Canon Bright, Regiis Professor, writing to the Church Times, Feb. 17th, 1888, says Clergymen who are interested in the literary aspects of Church defence will do well to discourage imaginative reconstruc- tions of our old Church history, and especially those notions about our relations to British Chris- tianity which may seem to support the anti-Papal contention, but really give advantage to a fairly informed Roman arguer. The English Church did not grow out of British, but was founded apart from it and without it, and afterwards gradually assimilated and incorporated what was left of it." Now read the testimony of Profossor Freeman, the historian: One point which cannot be too strongly insisted on at this stage is that the Church of England, which was founded by Augustine (the Italian missioner," par excellence !) has nothing whatever to do with the early British Church. In after times certain British Dioceses submitted to English ecclesiastical rule, and that is all. The Roman planted, the Scot (i.e., the Irish) watered, but the Briton did nothing he refused to do any- thing he would have nothing to say to Augustine's invitation to join in preaching the Gospel to the heathen English. Theologians may dispute over the inferences which may be drawn from the fact, but the fact cannot be altered to please any man. The English folk were first called to cast aside the faith of Woden, and to embrace tho faith of Christ by men who came on that errand from Itorne herself at the bidding of the acknowledged Fatter of Western Christianity" (vide Encyclopaedia Britannica, art, England, p.p. 277-8). So that" J. W. J." will now see that if I am unlearned or something worse," I err in the com- pany of the "unlearned" Canon Bright and Dr. Freeman, both of them non-Catholic authorities on English Church History. The pre-Reformation Church in this country, he contends, is always described as the Church of England. What in the name of logic, does he think this proves ? Does it imply that tho Church of pre-Reformation England was not in communion with Rome and therefore not Roman Catholic ? The Catholic Church all the world over is described accoring to its location. Thus, .mention is made of the Church of France, the Church of Spain, and only last year Pops Leo XIII. addressed a letter to the Bishops of the Church of England," namely, to Cardinal Vaughan and his fourteen suffragans. The Holy Roman Church is strictly limited to the Church in Rome, and we cannot expect to nnd the pre-Reformation Church here usurping the title, but the latter over and over again the devoted daughter of our mother the Holy Roman Church." (vide Wilkins's Concilia ii. p. 193, et sefl). That the Church of tLip country acknowledged the supremacy of tho Pope for some time before the Reformation, I admit, but this is a different subject," writes your correspondent. Why, sir, the question of Papal Supremacy is the very kernel of the wole oo1;r1 • <*rsy For aome time before .IIHl.tfon i'or^ooth T Fivltl the very first day of ita foundation by Pope St. Gregory the Great in the sixth csnturv, to the time of the schism under) 1 PiO "Y ill, the spiritual supremacy of the Pope was never questioned by either Bishop or King. I DJay remark, en passant, as J. W. J." founds an argument upon it, that the Protestant Episcopal Church of America (why did your cor- respondent by-the-byo omit the word "Pro- testant?") is not a daughter" of the Established Church of England, but of the Scottish Episcopal Church, as every educated Anglican ought to know. If" J. W. J." knows little of his own Church history, be knows less of liturgiology. The "uses" of SarUlD, Hereford, Bangor, and York, are merely slightly varying versions of the same thing viz., the Roman Missal. Here are some of the little items of the Hereford Missal, for instance, of which your correspondent wants us to believe the present Anglican Prayer Book is a translation." Masses for souls departed Mass for the Feast of Holy Relics; in the Canon the Pope is prayed for as the Head of the Church (The Hereford Canon being word for word the same as that of the present Roman Missal); invocation of Saints Mass for the Feast of the Assumption of the Holy Mother of God* bnt I atn sure everybody will at once recognise lU the Book of Common Prayer a. faithful tr»us^ati°ni" of the Hereford Missal! The allegation so confidently made that Pope Pius IV. in the year 1560 offered to recognise" the Anglican Prayer Book its ordination service is, to put it plainly, an impudent and clumsy lie, and only ignorant Anglicans make use of it". The remaining assertions as to the number of clergy who refused to accept the Protestant Prayer Book are equally untrue. As a fact, all the Bishops to a man declined to use and the higher clergy followed their example. Mr. Nicholas Pocock. a learned Anglican has conclusively proved this in the columns of the Guardian, the leading Anglican journal. With thanks, Sir, for your great fairness. W. VANCE PACKMAN. Hon. Sec. Historical Research Society. Arbourthorne, Thornbury Road, Clapham Park, S.W. Feb. 19. -+-
o the Editor of the COUNTY…
To the Editor of the COUNTY TIMES AND POST. SIR, I have now the pleasure to reply to Mr. Dal- ton's letter of the 5th inst., in which he states another false and unfounded belief, that I am a paid servant of the Protestant Alliance," and al- though I have directly or wdiroe^y received payment from it or any other society your readers will doubtlessly ask themselves how it could affect the controversy had it been true, but I can well un- stand from Mr. Dalton's point of view, that he should have" believed" it so, as but little-more is done now bv the priests of his church except for money thanwas done bv them in the Middle Ages, as the sequel of this letter will s-iew. Mr. Dalton then naturally looks for a motive and I truthfully state to him that it is good-will towards my Roman Catholic fellow country men, to whom I would echo tho words spoken by S. John" Come forth, my people out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues," referring to the woman sitting on the seven hills arrayed in purple and scarlet and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls and drunk with the blood of the saints (Kara-) Rev. XVII and XVHI. Before further discussing Mr. Dalton s letter let us take a look at that of Mr. Vance-1 ackman which appeared in your last. He refers with evident satisfaction to our history under King John. This King of England taking off his crown laid it on the ground, and the Pope's legate spurning it with his foot, kicked it about, then placed it upon the head of this craven monarch. This took place 15th May, 1213, and in Fox's words "'there is no moment of profounder humiliation in the annals of England." This was not all; John then resigned England and Ireland to God, to S. Peter and S. Paul, to Pope Innocent, and to his successors and agreed to hold these dominions as feudatory of the Church of Rome by the annual payment of 1,000 marks, etc, upon pain of forfeiture of all rights to these dominions. Pope Innecent III had through this busi- ness possessed himself of this kingdom it is true, but he had yet to reckon with our great ancestors, who, appearing before the King at Oxford, April, 1215, said to him (pointing to the Charter con- ferred on them by Henry II) This is the Charter which consecrates our liberties which you have solemly sworn to observe The King stormed, I will not said he grant you liberties which would;make me a slave." He forget that he had already become a slave, but the barons were not to be daunted, he was odious to the whole nation, and on 13th Juno, 1215, John signed the Magna Cliarta. This was in effect to tell Innocent that John re- voked his vow of vassalage and took back the king- dom. Pope Innocent thereupon launched an anathema against these impious rebellious men," at the same time inhibiting the King from carrying out the Charter, which was in effect a great political protest against himself and his system. Notwithstanding this the 1,000 marks continued to be paid till the reign of Edward II, when for 35 years it ceased to be paid, after which Pope Urban V demanded it, with 35 years of arrears, from Edward III, or in default to present himself at Rome to justify his contumacy," but the England of Edward III was not that of King John. Sinco then her growth in the elements of greatness had been rapid, she had fused Norman and Saxon, had formed her language, had extended her commerce, had fought great battles, and won victories, and it therefore received this summons, with the indignation it deserved. Urban V was loth to let so valuable a heritage slip from him. His foreign ecclesiastics were nominated by him to rich livings in England upon whose soil they never even Magus, Purgatory, relics, pilgrimages, indulgences, jubilees, canonizations, miracles, masses, were but taxes under another name. Every new saint cost the country 100,000 crowns. In the year 1250, Walter Grey, Archbishop of York, paid £10,000 for a pall, without which he might not exercise his functions. According to the present value of money that £10,000 would now fairly represent £100,000. The soil of England had been converted into an Italian glebe, and Englishmen into hewers of wood and drawers of water to the Roman hierarchy and foreign monks but this becoming intolerable, in the 20th year of Edward Ill's reign, all alien monks were ordered to quit the kingdom by Michaelmas, and their livings were given to English scholars. By a subsequent Act, it was further enacted That all such alien emissaries as be ad- vanced to livings here in England (being, in their own country, shoe-makers, tailors, or cham- berlains to Cardinals) should depart before Michaelmas and their livings be disposed to poor English scholars" (Fox Acts and Rome, vol. 1, p. 551). It was computed that the tax paid to tho Pope for ecclesiastical dignities was fivefold that paid to the King from the whole realm. At this time were also passed the famous Statistes, Provicces, and Pnemunire, by the first of which it was declared illegal to procure any presentation to any benefice from the Court of Rome, with' penal- ties for its infringement and no appeal allowed beyond the King's Court. By the second, passed three years later, all appeals on questions of property from the English Courts were forbidden under penalty. But to return to the insolent demand of Urban V for the payment of the 1,000 marks and arrears; Edward, assembling his Parlia- ment, 1366, and laying tho Pope's letter before it, bade it take council and say what answer should be returned. The reverend John Wycliffo, D.D., who was born in the parish of Wycliffe in York- shire a.d. 1324 (at this time a fellow of Merton College, Oxford), was also a member of that Parliament, and to his records we are indebted for the valuable summary of the debate which followed upon this great question and as it is the earliest reported debate in Parliament I would ask Mr. Vance-Packman and your readers to allow me to adjourn it till your following issue, I may now (returning to the end of the xix ceatury) complete my reply to Mr. Dalton. The Ransomers are not what they have been re- presented to be. Pursuant to an order from the present wearer of the tiara and scarlet for the con- version of England," many Roman Catholic priests have received from Cardinal Vaughan exemption from parochial duty in consideration of their delivering controversial lectures under the auspices of the so-called Catholic Truth Society." To reply to these the Protestant Alliance (9, Strand, W.C.) instituted subsequent lectures in the same places, with such demolishing results as to require the services of the Ransomers," i.e., men of strong limbs and lungs, who in a body force admission to the Protestant lectures, and there by shouting and other unseemly noises drown the voices of the speakers, and then set upon them with sticks when in the streets returning from the lecture halls; vide police reports, etc., in recent daily papers. They have received the special patronage and encouragement of Cardinal Vaughan, for which I can afford proofs. Such are the arguments now used in free and protestant England! I thank Mr. Dalton for his having at last joined issue upon a definite subject, viz., his question Can Papal supremacy be proved from the Bible or the testimony of the holy fathers ? To this my emphatic reply is, certainly not by either of them. First taking the scriptures. Mr. Dalton bases his contention to the contrary on Matthew xvi., 13, 20, Luke xxii., 31, 32, and John xv., 17. In Matthew xvi., 13, 20, there are two words to ba clearly distinguished—Petros (or Peter), which is a muscular noun, and Petra, which is & noum feminine signifying a rock. The latter our Lord employs in reference to his church, which affords a clear proof that Peter was not the rock ho alluded to. The words of the original are, Su ei o Petros, krLi epi taute te petra oikodornis more ten ekklesian. Our Lord said in effect, that upon this petra or rock—that is upon this confession of his divinity and his office of the priosthood (which included atonement and all the essential doctrines dependent on it)—he will build his church. Potor signifies only a stone, Jno. i., 42, whilst Christ says he will build on a rock, and scripture only recognises our Lord himself under this figure, I Cor., iii, ii, and x, 41, For that rock was Christ." This could not have been applied to Peter as verse 23 of same chapter our Lord thus addressed him, Get thee behind me Satan," and he alone it was who after- wards denied Him with curses. If it had been applied to Peter the Lord would have said upon thee will I build, etc. If St. Peter was called a foundation so were all the Apostles, for the Church was bniltlupon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone." Eph. ii., 20. See also Rev. xxi., 14. Our Lord's assurance, And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it," has been accomplished, for neither the power nor the policy of the Jews, nor the rage of persecuting emperors, nor tho more dangerous craft of Julius could annihilate the Church at a time when no human authority sustained 1 t, In verses 16 and 19 a "key" implies a door, and the Christian Church is in scripture called the kingdom of Heaven, Matthew xiii, 24 and 33 Peter standing up with the eleven" opened the door of the gospel dispensation to the Jews on the day of Pentecost, Acts ii., 14, and to the Gentiles Acts x, 48. It cannot mean that Peter could send to hell whom he pleased, Rev. i., 18, and he never claimed to have or had any supremacy, nor did the other Apostles ever give it him. He calls himself simply an elder, A ;ts xv. 13, and he was sent by the other Apostles with John to preach in Samaria, Acts viii. 14. At tho Council of Jerusalem Peter was present but James gave the sentence, Acts xv. 13. Paul declares he was not a whit behind the chief Apostles." ii. Cor. xi. 5. Peter is called one of tho "pillarsof the Church therefore he could not be the founda- tion of it. Gal. ii. 9. Paul withstood Peter to the face." Gal. ii. 11. The fame powers which OPT Lord had given Peter, he gave to all the Apostles collectively (including Peter) in the exact same words whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven." Mat. xviii. 18. It referred to the power given to them as founders of the Christian Church, to release from the obli- gations of the Mosaic Law to bind upon it that which was necessary. This power did not descend beyond the Apostles any more than their miracu- lous powers and had it done so it would have pertained equally to all the then existing Churches. Acts xv. 24 to 29. Remission of sins is everywhere in Scripture connected with faith in Christ and nowhere with an absolvo te .-—John iii. 36, Rom. v. 1, Gal. ii. 16, i. Jno. ii. 1. By St. Luke's account we learn that others' besides the Apostles were present when our Lord enjoined that repentance and remission of sins should be preached by them in his name and as some of them were women. Luke 23, or as St. Mark records it our Lord said to them Go ye unto all the world and preach'the Gospel to every creature;" he that believeth and is baptised shall be saved-e. g. loosed' (from his sins) on earth and loosed in heaven but he that believeth not shall be dammed," c. g. bound on earth and bound in heaven." Mark xvi. 15, 16. This command was given to each and to all of them. An apostle is literally a missionary and therefore they were all made missionaries and apostles as well as the eleven, but not priests, or Popes.' Mr. Dalton's next in order is Luke xxii. 31, 32, but I.am unable to see why he 3fers to it. By it our Lord alludes to the temptation which resulted in Peter's thrice-told denial of Him, but his prayer for him was answered, and he did not become a cast away, and immediately repented and was re- stored to his discipleship as shewn by the angel's words spoken on the morning of the Resurection, Go tell my disciples and Peter," Mark xvi. 7. Our Lord then enjoined on him that when he had thus turned around or; converted," ho should strengthen his brethren but this did not refer to his fellow apostles, for the original word is Tons adelphoi sow—literally the brethren of thee or in the singular number adelphos-meaning a brother believer, of whatever condition in life, and in this sense it occurs over 230 times in the New Mr. Dalton's next and last quotation is John xxi. 15. 17. in which our Lord reminds Peter of his fall, notwithstanding the vehemence of his state- ments that though all should deny Jesus, yet he would not do so. Jesus therefore repeated his question three times" Lovest thou me more than these," because ho had three times denied Him, and by a threefold address he restored him, and enjoined him to testify his love by acts of faithful- ness rather than by ardent professions which had so lately proved fallacious but that thrice repeated question must havo been admonitory, for Peter was grieved, because He said unto him the third time Lovest thou Me" (v. 17); our Lord did not so onquire of St. John the disciple whom Jesus loved." It is a remarkable fact that later in this chapter, we have the first proof of the unreliability of all tradition even whon so near the fountain head. Our Lord having in vs. 18 and 19, predicted Peter's crucifixion, he enquired of our Lord What shall this man do?"—(referring to St. John), to which our Lord merely replied, "If I will that ho tarry till I come, what is that to thee ? upon which the saying went abroad among the brethren including St. Peter," "that that disciple should not die yet Jesus said not unto him he shall not die but, if I will that ho tarry till I come, what is that to thee ? vs. 22." And now I will ask Mr. Dalton to reply to the four following questions. No. 1. Did Peter on any one occasion recorded in the New Testament, ever claim, or have, anv supremacy over the rest of the Apostles ? No. 2. Did they on any occasion recorded, ever accord such supremacy to him, or teach that it was due to him ? No. 3. Can ho show that the apostles or either of them, or anyone in the ministry, ever acted as a aacrificial priest ? No. 4. Did the Apostles ever assume the power of forgiving sins with an absolvo te, or teach that others could do so, but did they not on the contrary everywhere connect the remission of sins with faith in Christ ? He will kindly note that it is ftiy contention that the Lord gave some to be Apostles, and some to be Evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints unto the work of ministering, unto the building tip of the body of Christ." (Revised version Ep. iv. 11.), but no mention is made of sacrificing priests, nor do the Apostles once so call themselves. Paul in writing to Timothy and to Titus makes mention of Bishop and overseer, but never to Priests or Popes. The sacrificial priesthood was for ever abolished by the Lord Jesus, when he gave himself fora. sacrifice for sin once for all. As the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews says Ch. vii. 24. (Revised version.) Becauso he abideth for ever he has a priesthood that doth not pass to another." The Greek word is aparabaton-, is decisive; it means literally what cannot be transferred or that the priesthood can- not pass on to another. And so, as might be expected, He did not constitute His disciples sacri- ficing priests, but teachers," Matt. xxviii. 19, and "preachers" Mark xvi. 15, and so a sacrificing priesthoodjeannot exist under the gospel dispensa- tion. The link of succession to it is therefore dearly wanting, or rather it never reached the Jirst link. I regret that space will not permit of my refer- ence to Mr. Dalton's second proofs, i.e. the testi- mony of the Holy Fathers," which he cites, but this I hope to do in your next following issue, and at the same time to demonstrate by most certain proofs that St. Peter never was at Rome. Yours, &c., D. GAUSSEN. Marton, Feb. 14th, 1894. [As announced in our last issue this correspon- dence is now closed.—ED.]
ABERYSTWYTH COLLEGE MUSICAL…
ABERYSTWYTH COLLEGE MUSICAL SOCIETY. To the Editor of the COUNTY TIMES AND POST. SIR,—Your correspondent who signs himself Student" complains that our Musical Society admits a larger number of lady members from the town, and that this discourages our lady students from joining. Perhaps it is due to our town members that your readers should know some further facts of the case. At the beginning of each session a general meeting is called of all members of the College interested in music, but of members of the College alone. At this meeting any questions as to the constitution and policy of the Society may be raised and fully ventilated. I have presided at the meetings for the last eight years, and I have always tried to secure that no fairly debateable questions should be overlooked. At the meeting held this session I went out of my way to en- courage anyone who wished to restrict our mem- bership to our own students, to state his or her opinion, bnt there was not the slightest response and tho meeting unanimously agreed to invite townspeople to join. Lady students were present in sufficient numbers and they are not usually afraid either to speak or to vota in the way they think. If, therefore, they or any other section of the students would prefer a more exclusive organisation than the customary one they havo carefully con- cealed their wishes, and the Society had no option but issue the customary invitations to outsiders. Moreover the mixed chorus of our Society is only a part of our arrangements. Glee parties and anthem parties are formed from time to time which consist of students exclusively, and our Society has a vice-conductor who makes it his special duty to organize these parties. If there should be any general wish for further practice of this exclusive kind there is Jnothing to prevent its being gratified. But a student who wishes for such further practice takes tho very worst way he can for getting it, when he writes an anonymous letter to a newspaper, making statements as to the social position of certain townspeople, statements which I am informed are the reverse of the fact, and even if they were true would bo both offensive ca, -.iUwo Vv.ic iiu our owu reijuc-ol, uuu usis'j, I think, of the very smallest practical account in judging whether we do well to invite them.—Yours truly, J. BROUGH. U.C.W., 26th Feb., 1894.
To the Editor of COUNTY TIMES…
To the Editor of COUNTY TIMES AND POST. SIR,—My attention having been drawn to a recent statement in your columns to.the effect that the" omcn students have absented themselves from the College Musical Society because of the admission of townspeople, I have made it my business to ask every individual student her reason for not joining. In all cases but one want of time or want of voice has been the reason given. In many cases the form of the answer has been I only' v. 'ih T .cultl spare time. I hope to join later on." In the exceptional case the student has been restrained from attendance by her mother's desire. I shall be obliged if you can find room for the correction of the mistake made by your corres- pondent. I am, sir, yours truly, E. A. CARPENTER. Lady Principal of Hall for Women Students. February 26th, 1894.
To the Editor of the COUNTY…
To the Editor of the COUNTY TIMES AXD POST. SIR,—In your issue of February 24th, a "Student" explains that the College Musical Society is packed with shop-assistants and dress- makers." It only fair to say that the townspeople have always been ready and willing to assist to tte utmost of their power in all College enter- prises. The assistance to the Musical Society has been given because although tho students arc possessed with all the general culture which thrives in the College atmosphere, yet, in past years the College has been unable to provide all the musical faculty which has rendered the College concerts such a success. Though this state of things may have changed, yet there is no reason why A Student" should have sought the publicity of your columns to object to townspeople being in the Musical Society. "A Studeut" is "confident that Miss Carpentor has only to have the anomaly pointed out to effect a reform," and calls atten- tion to the town Musical Society. It it not uuatural to imagine that A Student" fears that the new town Society will materially affect the prosperity of the College Society by diminishing the support which hitherto has been ungrudgingly given by the town.—Youys, etc. A TOWNSMAN.
AGRICULTURAL NOTES.
AGRICULTURAL NOTES. (FllOM AN OCCASIONAL CORRESPONDENT.) Tho annual meeting of the North Wales Cattle Society was held last week at Rhyl, Sandback, in the chair. Major Sand back, )\"fIS elected president, Mr. R. M. Greaves, Yieo-president, and Lord Harlech and Mr. W. R. Lawford, were. elected on the Executive Council. The Secretary Mr. W. A. Dew, announced that 100 entries h been received for the next volume of the lIerd Book, which will not he closed until further eutrie9 are received. A cordial vote of thanks was give tho Prince of Wales for his services as preside11 during the past year, including their meeting b presided over at Chester, and a hope was cxpresse that he would become a. patron of the Society. V Tho new duty on wheat, agreed to by the Fren0& Chamber, is equivalent to 12s. 3d. a quarter, of the present duty of 8s. 9d. The French grcrfet will enjoy protection equal to about half the -value of a quarter of wheat in this country. Still; tbÐ price will be very low, compared with what it w a few years ago, so long as the average here IS under 25s. a quarter. 0 At present the most important tillage operation9 are associated with securing a proper seed bed for barley. Barley requires careful tillage. On tbe market nothing is more striking than the enormoU* difference in the quality and value of samples 0 barley offered for sale. The price varies from 248. to 40s. per quarter, and the yield from three to fife or six quarters per acre, while the return according to these estimates must vary from £3 12s. to 5$* per acre No doubt seasons will occasionally be9/í the most careful cultivators, but farming is a gattl8 of skill, and, although good management may some. times appear to have been thrown away for I) season, it is sure to tell ir. the end. Oats and puls8" crops require skill in a less degree, and the I tance of good tillage is most clearly seen in nection with securing uniformity and quality in tbe case of barley. According to the Board of AgricflJ' I ture, the average price of English wheat for tb9 week ending with Saturday was 24s. 10d. pet; quarter, while barley was 28s. 3d., and oats 1^' per quarter. Mr. George Villes' formula for a complete potato manure is as underSuperphosphate of linle, 3521bs; nitrate of potash, 2641bs and sulphate o lime (gypsum), 2641bs. The quantities named 0 these ingredients, being well mixed together, to b8 applied to an acre of ground. Some years ago r. Perry, a large Shropshire potato grower, employ6 this manure extensively and with good results as to quantity and quality of crop. A meeting of Vale of Clwyd blacksmiths, «88' held at Denbigh last week, Capt. Wynne Edward3 in the chair, at which it was decided to form Blacksmiths' Union of North Wales. A schedule ot prices was formulated. Shire horse breeders assembled in great force Lockinge, on the occasion of the unreserved sale ° fifty animals, bred by Lord Wantage. Tho featuT0 of the sale was that all the horses and offered were the off-spring of one sire, the cele' brated "Prince William" (3,956), whoso sire )\"85 William the Conqueror" (2,343), and da1^ Lockington Beauty." It was in 1883 that L°r Wantage gave £1,500 for Prince William," tbe the London champion at two years old. Tht years later Prince William again won the ElseIla ham Challenge Cup, and he terminated a show yard career by winning in 1889 the » gold medal at tho jubilee meeting of the Rojf- Agricultural Society, at Windsor. At this sa1* forty-nine animals averaged £117 9s. 5d making total of £7,576 2s. It is said that Lord has purchased a valuable stallion, for his from Sir. John Lewis, Great Weston, gomery. The entries for the fifteenth annual show of Horse Society, which was held at the Agricultur3 Hall, Islington, last week, are fewer than ■were ir> TB93, or 1690, Wtrfc mor* ..■wnrrr#^ than in any other year. Among yearling Mr. Whitehurst's Denstone Countess," took honours. The awards among two-year-olds remarkable, as Mr. McGibbons's Forest 8 first as yearling last year, Mr. Crisp's Scarsda' Marabon," who was third in the same class, y¡e all sent away undecorated, while the prizes ef. all taken by new-comers; the Cannock AgricC tual Co's "Queen of Cres^f-'ell/' placed flrsl Hailstone County Queen (exhibited by Mr- A. Barrs), second, and Mr. James Forshaw's "Totn Jewel," third. This reversal of a previous judg ment is, perhaps, an illustration of the fact tb horses of any breed which are good enough to "Wl prizes as yearlings, seldom retain their perfe° symmetry in after years. Thirty-three stallions were entered. The first prize was award^ to Major Sliuttleworth, of Biggleswade, for his bat colt Sowerby Boy," by Hazlehood," bred by Fred Crisp, of New Southgate. Two-year-ol. stallions were represented by 45 entries. Tbl: class was specially interesting as containing las year's champion stallion.—Lord Belper's Rokeb^ Harold," by Harold," bred by Mr. A. C. RogerS, of Buckingham. As a yearling this was one of tbe most remarkable of cart horses ever seen, and he has grown so well since,. that he won easily aS two-year-old. The largest class was that of stalIÏon6 three-years-old, of which 64 were entered. three of the winners in last year's two-year-O 9 class competed. The first prize horse of that claS retained his position with a year added to his ag; This was "Nyn Hitchin Duke," by Hitchin Duke, a noble bay, and by far the best walker in ring. Ho was exhibited by Mr. A. Grandage, ° Bramhope, Leeds, and was bred by Mr. Arth11^ Ransom, of Hitchin. "Vulcan II," by Y ulcan, was second. Although not numerous, the year-old stallions were well represented. were three of last year's winners grown fl. year older, but only on0 iiri Ihcui non a prize at tbØ present show. The first place was taken by Nono Conqueror," by "Hitchiu Duke," exhibited by Mr. A. Grandage. This fine horse, bred by M;' Port, of Radlett, St. Albans, was not at last yea s show. The stallions of five years old or more, 111 their two classes were never better represented. Those under 16 hands 2 inches, numbered thirty* five. The most notable success was that of DunS. more Bounding Willow," by Garnet," exhibited by Mr. Muntz, M.P., and bred by Mr. Wilding, 0 Claughton, Lancashire. He beat last year's fiist prize four-year-old, "NaiIstono Spartan," by "Spartan."The stallions, five-years-old or more, and over 16 hands 2 inches, were represented witlt fifty-one entries. This year the fortunate Burf Victor Chief," which would undoubtedly be an ex- ceptionally noble cart horse if he could walk well* again came to the top of his class, and .thus again into the running for the chief honours of the show. He was exhibited uJ ju. SI-cm VVUIUWright, of Chapel-en-frith, Derbyshire, his breeder being .Mr. John Rowell, of Bury, Hunts. For the contest for the supreme honour 'of the show, 50 guineas champion cup and the 100 guineas challenge cup, the fight was between the t>\ o-year-old "Rokeby Harold," and the five-year-old "Bury Victor Chief, and the interest of the contest was heightened by the fact that each of theso horses had already woJ) the distinction, the younger one last year, and t1ø older one in the previous year. Mr. Wainwright 9 horse was the victor. Mr. Wainwright who IlO wins the challenge cup outright, as he held it 111 1892, bought Bury Victor Chief in the shoW yard of the Royal Agricultural Society, at Don" caster, in 1891, from his breeder, for 2,500 guineas. The Land Agents' Record says, when Bury Victor Chief" and "Rokehv Harold," came to- gether for the Championship, public opinion waS. pretty equally between the pair; and when, after a. long and tedious delay, the rosette was handed to Bury Victor Chief," both horses were vehemently applauded. But when the merits of the pair are weighed up, the scale inclines in favour of the young horse. He walks with such liberty—a great quality in a cart horse and one in which Bury Victor Prince" by no means excels—he has sO" much range' about him, and s:ems altogether so- much more like a high-class stallion, that the verdict which placed him behind Bury Victor Chief" can scarcely be said to bear very strict criticism. His beautiful legs and feet, too, should have points to tell great'y in his favour- Altogether Lord Belper's luck was hard, and the more especially so, for some occult reason, the rosette was placed on his horse first. Whether the rosettes were given this way of set purpose or not, it is impossible to say. If they were not then a. stupid mistake was made."