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INTERESTING GATHERING AT BANGOR._--_-…
INTERESTING GATHERING AT BANGOR. OLD AGE PENSIONS BILL CRITICISED. THE CHILDREN'S BILL. (By Our Reporter.) The annual North Wales Poor Law Confer- ence was opened at Bangor on Tuesday. and wa.i continued yesterda.y (Wednesday). The attendance of delegates was unusually largo, and considerable interest was shown in itijo proceedings. The strong local committee who had charge of the arrangements did not neglect the social part of the programme, and several interesting trips were enjoyed by the delegates- TILO 1'resident was Mr J. R- Davies, of Cens, a.nd tils scholarly address formed one of the features of the Conference. Mr H.. H. Williams, the Local Government Board Inspector foir Wales, and his predecessor Mr Biroham, wera present, together with the Mavor of Bangor (Mr David Owen), Mrs Her- bert Roberts, and M.is.3 May Williams, Bodel- wyddan, both of whom are deeply interested in retjcuie work. THE DELEGATES. The following u a list of those prment:- HOLYWELL Mr James Prince (chairman), Mrs Bat tors, Messrs Daniel Hughes, John Wat kin, Edward Wynne, John Petrie (vice-chairman), Wm. Roberts, Holywell; John Roberta, H. Lloyd. R F. Harrison. HOLYHEAD Mr Ü. H. Foulkes (ohairman), Dr. Clay, Mrs Lewis. RUTHIN: Mr J. Hampson Simon. ST. ASAPH: Mr J. Roberts Jones, Miss Owen Jones, Mr Robert Jones (Master), Mrs M. Jones, Messrs J. Ellis Jones, J. Frim3ton, Charles Grirusley (clerk), and Robert Jon-es. PWLLHELI M'tss Puglie Jones, Dr. Robart Evans, Mr J. T. Evans (ohairman). CONWAY Miss Ediih Champneys, Mrs Eliz. Lewis, Mr F. H..McClement, Mr Rogers Jones- LLANBWST: Mr R. R. Owen. BALA: Mrs Morris. WREXHAM Mr Simon Jones (chairman), Mr John Roberta, Mr Thoa. Hughes, Mrs Birkett Evans. ANGLESEY: Mr H. J. Hughes. HAWARDEN Mr Evan Davies, Mr William Fryer (ohairman). LLANFYLLIN Mr W. R. Roberts (vice-chair- man). FESTINIOG Mr Willia.m Jones (vioc-ohair- man), Mr D. Tegid Jones, Mrs -asson. COBWBN Mr Penoerdd Williams (ohairman), Mr Lloyd John (vio-chairman), Mr W. R. Parry- CARNARVON: Messrs J. R. ioncol Alfred H. Richards, F. Longueville Lloyd, J. Edmund Williams, Humphrey Williams, W. Jones Wil. liams, John Jones, Hugh Willi ana, J. Henry Thomas (clerk), John Parry (master), John Griffith, and Mrs Annie Williams. BANGOR AND BEAUMARIS: Mrs Lewis Jones, Nurse Georgina Jones, Mr3 M. A. Saunders, Miss Wallace, Messrs John Evan Roberts (vice- chairman), Thos. Roberts, John Roberts, Rev. Canon Edwards (Gwynedd), Rev. Herbert Jones, Messrs W. O. Williams, C. F. Priestley, Arthur Price Williams, Thomas Edwards, Jo- seph Davies, the Rev. Wm. Morgan, Wm- Jones, Dr. John Roberts, Messrs Benjamin Evans (clerk), R. Jones (Relieving Officer), Dr. Corbet W. Owen, Messrs W. Roberts, R. J. Ellis, Thomas Edwards, Mrs A. Previte Orton, Miss Olwen Williams, tho Master of the Bangor Workhouse, the Rev. Ellis Jones, Miss Janet D'aeth, Misa Annie E. Thomns. The delegates were entertained on Tuesday to lunch at the penrhyn Hall by the Bangor B? nd -,atLL-ial's Guard' aim, the oater ng of Nlra a Clarkson being much admired. The OHAIRMAN (Mr Hugh Thomas) pro- posed the loyal toasts. Briefly, Mr BIRCHAM proposed the toast of "Success to the Conference," and Mr R. H. WILLIAMS proposed a vote of thanks to the Bangor and Beaumaris Guardians for provid- I ing the lunch. THE FIRST SITTING. The first sitting of the Conference took place in the afternoon at too Council Chamber in the Town Hall. The President oocxr ied the ohair, and was supported by the Mayor of Bangor, who wore his robes and oham of office, Mr Hugh Thomas, chairman of the Bangor and Beaumaris Guardians), Mr Bircham, Mr R. H. Williams, Mr Joseph Brown, freswlent of the Poor Law Unions Association for England and Wales, and Mr Harding.Roberts, Holywell, the Secretary of the Conference. A MUNICIPAL WELCOME. The MAYOR welcomed the delegates to the I city. He said that he had prepared a speech, but upon perusing it he came to the conclu- sion that it was very much like what they might expect from the president of such a Conference, so he refrained from delivering it (laughter). PRESIDENT'S ADDRESS. The PRESIDENT, whoee reception was char- acterised by great heartiness, commenced by moving a vote of thanks to the Mayor for his gracious welcome and to his oolleagues and the b argesses of Bangor for placing the Council Ob.a.mber at their disposal (applause). Proceeding, the PRESIDENT said he had a sti-ong suspicion that he was the only person in the room who did not deal directly with the problems that were before them as Guardians because he had not enjoyed the privilege of being a guardian of the poor, and in a certain sense be looked upon himself as an outsider He hoped, therefore, that fchoy would not ex- pect the few words he intended saying to deal directly with the poor law problems, but that they would be regarded as a sort of preliminary canter before the definite work was entered upon. "The problem of the poor, cif want, and penury with which you have been dhosen by your fellows to deal, and to which you give so geneirovisly oif your time, is a problem of vast antiquity," said tie President. "It looms large upon the horizon of daily life, it casts its dark shadows across the land; we meet it on our door step; it absorbs the time of our clergy; it puzzles our statesmen; and it worries the tax- payer. Like some great imprisoned spirit it peers out of tihe k '.rkness of the past and fixes its gaze on the uim future, craving for a de- liverance which has been long delayed. This problem is the Sphinx of Society. Professor Sayce tells us that when Abraham went dov.n into Egypt, the Sphinx was as great a mystery to the people of his day as it is to us now. Once you have seen the Sphinx you oan never forget it. Abraham looked at it, and was as awestruck as you are. Its hoary age and its mystery send a o' ill to the very marrow of your bones. This I -e it hinx of povorty 3 lil, -on?ce it enters your in,,inci you cannot for-et it; it 6tirs your pity, it M-<>Vos you to -ior?ow; it is a blot on tyie fair earth in which we live; and it is old, so old, that the memory of man runneth not to tho contrary. The poor ye have always with yoj. Has the deep pathos of these words struck you He who was the Light of the World uttered them, and yet they se-em to cast a. erha-do-w. They arc the "wOTds of Him who preached deliveranoo to the captive and yet thoy seem to picture a prison house for all time. THE PITIFULNESS OF POVERTY. "A very cursory glance down the pages of history serves to show that the pitifulness of poverty had appealed to the heart of humanity from the earliest times, said lYLr Davies. From the earliest times many a brave man along the oenturies had made a gallant attempt to solve the problem. Statesmen and Churchmen, auto- crats and democrats, cranks and philosophers liad, since history began, propounded remedies and often fought for and triod them, but their efforts had not suoceedcd. The problem still remained. A remote antiquity discovered the Bubmerg'ed tenth, and the Salvation Army was but the last of a great cloud of witnesses to testify to the desire and the effort of mankind to fnd a. remedy. King David prayed to be saved from the evil of poverty. Isaiah know how hard it was to make the crooked thing straight, and the rough places smooth for the people un- der his caro. Turning to Roman history, and taking* two instances in the pre-Christian era as examples cf the kind of remedies which that great empire tried, they oame with peculiar interest at that moment when their Government had been giving special attention to this lifelong question (he wished to disclaim any idea of in- troducing any political bias into his remarks). The coincidence was remarkable, but dealing a? they were that day with the great problem of poverty the trifles ctf pariy politics lay far be- D(>1t their feet (hear, hear). Four hundred ,vcars I C ti-3re '*v<x-l a gteat, r,(,n-4n statesman 3 .1 whose talents were recognised, a.nd who was made a Tribune, Oaius, Lecimas Stolo. Like manv more before and after him. he was greatly impressed by the inequalities of life, by the ex- tremes of poverty and wealth which he saw around him. He set himself to find a remedy. He framed a law, which met with fierce opposi- tion Tnis ta v proposed to limit the amount d land a man might bold, and to sequestrate what surplus a man might have, and to distri- bute tins land among tnose who had none. In spite of all o;fjjoaiUon ho carried his law, and it w_us put into operation. AN ANCIENT SMALL HOLDINGS' BILL, Would he be wrong if he called it a Small Holdings Bill—(laughter)—an effort at "closer cultivation," an application of the cry of 1, Back to the Land," a "Crofters' Bill?" Anyhow, there it was, and it was tried 400 years B.C. There was verily nothing new under the sun. But he had to pass on. Three hundred years passed away. Stolo was long forgotten land had changed hands, time and again, but the problem of poverty and unemployment was a live question in Rome 100 years B.C. Another Tribune, ing the famous name of Graechus, uneartned Stolo's old law. He pointed out how it had been alio ,ved to fall into disuse, and he proposed to revive it, and in the teeth of bitter opposition he carried the law in the Lower House, but, alas, they carried their animosities very far in those days, and they fought about it m the streets, and Tiberus Graechus was killed, and Stolo s law was buried once more, to be revived by the present Government 2000 years later (hear, hear). A brother of Tiberus, one Caius Graechus, came forward with a new remedy, and apparently all parties agreed with those—should he venture to call it an Old Age Pensions Bill—(laughter)— but instead of crowns the State provided grain, and instead of fixing an age limit they fixed re- duced prices on the grain. This was very popular, they were told, and as the price of grain was reduced, it became more poi)u lar-(Iaug liter), and at last, by the year 27 B.C., grain was given away at the co3t of the State to 200,000 citizens of Rome. "Loaves without labour." What did Augustus Cresar think of this remedy for the ills of poverty and unemployment? Let him speak for in that year he ascended to the throne. He did his utmost to put an end to it so evil were its effects, but so great was its hold on the Romans that even his power was inadequate to the task of changing it, and the system continued until Rome fell. "We aee from these instances how mankind an ?l,?d again to fi?id stru?-, gled d failed, and t3tru.-P a solution for this terrible curse long before the days of Christ," continued the President, "while since His days, man's efforts have re-doubled until every page of history seems to tell of little else than man's continuous efforts to reach better things. No doubt pessimism had its innings now and then, and even in this land of ours, cruelty has had its turn when poverty was re- garded as wickedness and punished as such. But, on the whole, one is impressed with tho op- timism of our race. If at first we don't succeed, try, try, try again. This old refrain positively rings down the pages of history (hear, hear). All honour to the men who' try from Caius Li- cinius Stolo with his Small Holdings Bill to David Lloyd George with his Old-age Pensions Bill (applause). I had rather perish in their com- pany than live conscious of these terrible evils which surround us, but unwilling to face the risk of trying a remedy (hear. hear). We must try, try, and try again, even though the problem has baffled humanity for century after century. The remedy exists, and it is only those who seek that find (applause) I believe, but I am not sure, that among the earliest efforts of organ- ised effort to meet this difficulty of poverty was the resolve of the State of Athens to provide for the widows and orphans of soldiers who fell in battle, victims of the God of War THE CURSE OF WAR. War had something to do with this de- vouring monster of poverty. Who knows but that in the cessation of armaments and the in- auguration of universal peace, the remedy may exist. We live in days that the best men of old longed for, but never saw. They died in the faith that these days would dawn, and they have dawned upon U3. The dark blotch of slavery ha3 been wiped off the face of the earth. Ours LJ a world of freemen to-day. The darkness of ignorance is passing as night before the day the Templo of Peace is actually in the building (hear, hear). The horrors of war have had their dark wings heavily clipped, and it cannot be long before war follows slavery into oblivion, and then with our borders protected by universal peace, we shall be free to dispatch after slavery and war, their near relatives-the intolerable evil of want and poverty. With Tennyson let us strive to Ring out the thousand wars of old, Ring in the thousand years of peace, Ring in the valiant men and free, The Larger Heart, the kindlier hand, Ring out the darkness of the land, Ring in the Christ that is to be. (loud applause). There you have in the words of the mighty poet, the real vital force "That i to be. Is Christianity was a leaven. I do not think we realise it. Nor do we realise how it has largely done its work; it has leavened society (hear, hear). I have given instances of the efforts to deal with poverty-grand instances, with an un- leavened society. They failed. What better hope have we, that we, who at our best fall back upon the same old remedies, may succeed? We work on material that has been leavened. "Ring in the Christ that is to be." He comes to reign; we no longer work in darkness; the dawn has come, and it wants no imagination to see it, no prophet to foretell it; it is here. He who runs may read. Let us, therefore, press on with fresh oourage in. the formation and administration of all good laws, for the new heaven and the new earth are surely in the making" (loud ap- plause). OLD-AGE PENSIONS AND THE POOR LAW. Mr JOSEPH BROWN, president of the Poor Law Unions' Association for England and Wales, read a paper on "Old age Pensions and the Poor Law." He said it was quite certain that neither school of politics could claim the whole credit or escape the whole of the blame attaching to this question. As to what the ultimate issue of the Government measure might be, there was great difference of opinion; but opinion was at one with the fact that once having been placed on the Statute Book, it must of necessity be impossible ever to remove the subject matter therefrom again." Considering the essential character of the Old-age Pensions Act, Mr Brown held that it was a purely altruistic measure. But the Act did not inaugurate a new philanthropy; it sim- ply changed the form of the method of convey- ing the help which the State had all along been accustomed to provide. He resented the idea that there was some taint or degradation attach- ing to the old form of poor relief that did not attach to the new, but, in the machinery of the Pension Scheme the Legislature had decreed that Guardians, as such, must have no part. It might be that experience might reveal this as a mis- take. No one can even suppose that our Old- age Pensions Scheme, however liberal its pro- visions, can ever abolish the Workhouse, even for those superior characters amongst the poor whom the Act was intended to help. Of what practical use would a pension of five shillings a week be to a bedridden paralytic who was with- out relatives or friends? Further, the Act did not attempt to solve the problem of poverty, much less of sickness and pain; it only professed to deal with a favoured few amongst earth's stricken people. How much there was of suffer- ing, of pitiable woe, long before seventy years were filled? And not every one, even of seventy years of age could claim the assistance of the Act. The restrictions were many and close. It was a great relief to the members of the depu- tation sent by the Poor Law Unions' Association to have the assurance of the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the disqualification attaching to the receipt of poor relief would not endure be- yond the end of the year 1910, and it was pos- sible that an even earlier termination of such disqualification might yet be fixed. Further, the measure was but paliative and partial. Possibly, agricultural labourers, whose wages in their prime were some shillings less than a pound a week whilst their families were "large but small" would find a pension of 5s a week a very appreciable allowance, ^specially when a man and his wife received it. But, in the case of a city worker, this allowance left much to be desired. An apparent partiality was found in the provi- sion with regard to the personal income of those who applied for a pension. A man might have an income of 10s a week, and yet be entitled to a pension. Yet, the needy one, however great his need, and however good his past record, could only have 5s a week. Discussing in- full-er. detail the supposed in- dignity attaching to the old as compared with the newer form of relief. Mr BROWN asked if it was not possible that the "indignity" re- ferred to consisted very largely in the careful inquiry k4-&t wa.3 d-corn-od nom-?.,ary prior to or(krs fox- relief being nw.& Bub he pointed out that perjen c<)nneot'on with the ad pi? in I nuaistra,tiz? p relief had, oomp'elkd care'- ful inquiry, as much in the interest of the poor u of the publio, and asked was it not possible that an equally lengthy experience in the ad- ministration of the Old Age Pensions Sch-cmo might lead to an equally careful inquiry, which would become as distasteful as the former ? An- other advantage supposed to attach "to the ^new method was that it imposed no "disability" on the recipients of its benefits. But the stroke of the pen could abolish the disabilities attach- ing to recipients of relief under the older law. After some remarks about the "experimental'' character of the Act. Mr BROWN dealt with the provision that the Act was to be adminis- tered by committees of existing Councils, the indoor relief bung controlled by County Coun- cils. Suoh a step he thought, must be disastrous alike to tho Council, the public, and the poor. Too often, now, the claim to public office was based on anything but the public good, b it if committees of these local authorities were to be the almoners of public doles, we cannot fail to see the public interests neglected, whilst oor- ruption will naturally have a new stronghold and an extra impetus. In nothing was the wis- dom of the framers of the Act of, 1834 more con- spicuous, perhaps, than in the creation of the "Union Area," which formed a strong safe- guard of public funds, and placed a mighty e. m baxg oal ka upon extravagance, injustice, partiality, and corruption. It was wor.h re- membering that the places noted for corrup- tion were those places in which those sale- guards had boon conspicuous by tCleir absence. He submitted that those who strove to pie- servo Poor Law Unions intact would t-c found o,, r to have served the poor thc!l1>r:)h es, the rate- payer, and the country ar, lar^e (loud applause). AN EX-POOR LAW INSPECTOR S OPINION. Mr BIRCIIAM oponod the discussion, and said ho wished to take that opportunity or thanking the committee of the Conference for asking him to attend. Through the exigencies n?-,t u-itaocoitil,?ar,.?-ed by a p--tis' )f old & lo!l -?l(>ud laughtlr)-h-o had ro relinquish his posi- tion as Poor Law Inspecior, but hu was pleased to meet his old friends. That day the cur ain è1jod been again raised, and it pleased him be- yond measure to see those with whom he had been so long associated. With regard to the paper just read, he could only say that ho could not have written a better paper himsel:. At least that was what persons Traced in the same position as he was generally said, anJ tli?-y gont--r:ii?y ryieant that tli--?y wi ed thl?t they 1-ih e>uid have written such a good paper them- selvea (laughter). He agreed with every word con- tained in the paper, but he doubted whether he could express his sentiments as Mr Brown had done. With regard to the new Act, he iiiust say th-t if it had a tendency. to d3&troy .?-o Boar,1.4 Of GLiardiaw ad h<), he ivas ox- glad to Lo ircsen, to give 'h' is rn%?-),iy in faNr(,LLr of th.(- 'r <)-)it'ili-uan(c. With h- 37 vears' f Bo IOf GLia'rdian's?', a;-ds botfi in North and I?ouoth Wal, he ventured t.,) t, n?'bodv- could point to an3,1.iig wlz'h ad I)??!en d<)n?, that to t??ir crc'd*t nIL1.2t not. for,et thl, a' was an ext?tiiet v(,Icailo, wliilt ,n 16,3 left th,r-, was a ???ltllml. (??Ir R. 11. Williains, Poor Law Inspector) who was in an invisible state of eruption—(lau-ghter),—but he could give them great help. lie might bo an "old fogey," but he entirely failed to soo the difference be- tween an old a.ge pensioner a.nd an old age pauper (hear, hear). The worse thing they could do was to give cheap sops just for the of sentiment unless those sops were pro- perly administered, and in the proper hands lie could speak more freely, perhaps, than hi, ■iKooswr, because he was free, if ho was idle, and he must say that he oould conceive, know- ing tiie experience they had of the subject, why they should have been thrown into the back ground, and that t.he funds snould have been 11 to a -,er-footl?- strange au,-Iiorltv to ad- ;tilnL-3ter. 110 c-Jul-d not help aqrc Ing witli t'01 of the paper that whc,?., the differ- ,?-,it author' t"?:' W' th t-lic 1,,x?cL"9 ni--a g3,t t,)- gether to examine 0for pen- -ions,, they would wish for the help of the uardiaiis and relieving officers.o entirely tailed to see any stigma in a pauper receiving relief from the rales further than tnat they were dependent upon t.ieir neignbours for their maintenance. it tililt was the stigma, f.ieijn it was a stigma which iob- tauiod whether a person revived money !j_. '••ay of a pension or from t.ne rat-s. For hi •'An part lie tiioiagnt tt:e administration oi tn^ iuiiuis should havy boe.ii leit to tne Boar-os o. l; LLardlanS, if not entirely, then -aruaily, aiio iet tueiu remove the taint of pauperism in re 01 Uho old and lnurm. xi. targe num"c- ■ "l petrsaitj oyer seventy woul-d ue relieved by the U uardia-ns, b-o^uee Uiey vw ro so lntim; c-aat £ » would bi no good to tneju, and these poople wouud cost the ratepayers from 10s t 12.3 a week on the average- ltie Government nad limited the age to '10, and Uey would hav,c time to see whether any improvement could 1),3 Wyev" n tiie adillllli?:iLr&L'on oi ?ho Act, so tibat they c? niL-, as they inovitabi L, 'y vvouki, to le-asen tne age of tne reeipienu 01 the peinsioiKj, they would do so aiter due con- sideration for those people who had the welfare o; the nation at heart (near, hear). Mrs RANDAL CASSON (Portmad-cc), invited by the PL%csi-(14,rlt to spejc, ?pdinitted that she had not studied tqo qup?stion 'thoroug'ily, but she agreed with Mr Bircham that be present authority was not the proper authority to deal with the Aot. She also failed to see what the Excise men had to do with the question at all. (near, hear). No money had been allocated for the purposes of the Act so fa,r, and nobody knew wtnero it was coming^ from. All that was known wa3 that the Act would be administered by local oommittees, and in that she saw a danger of relatives of those on the committees being favoured. The Act ought to be administered by persons who were boyond reproach. They as guardians were probably influenced a little somotimcs, but not to the extent that members Of tihis now authority would probably be. She was afraid also that a large .number of well-to-do persons, say sons and daughters who kept their parenta with thorn at home, would influencc them to apply for pensions, whereas they might be infinitely better off than the average rate- payer. It would be wrong to support well-to-do people like that out of the pookets of the rate- payers (hoar, hear). They all liked to see every- one comfortable, but it was coming to a questian of persons with moderate me-ans paying for the relatives of people who were better off. Mr PETRIE (Holywell) thought that one of the weakest spots in the now Act was its ad- ministration. In the part of the country wh-eire he camo from the County Council had quite emexugh to do without this new Act. It was to be hoped that no pensions would be paid out of the rates, as they wore becoming intolerable. Old age pensions were excellent in principle, but on the present basis he was afraid they would -have to wait a long time for theirs (laughter). Rev. W. MORGAN (Bet.hesda) said he was struck by the completeness of the paper, and the thorough way in which great questions of principle were handled. Mr Brown said that the Act only touched the fringe of poverty. That was perfectly true, and it was not intended too do anything more. Poverty was an eternal question, as the President said—and he wished to take that opportunity of congratulating Mr J. R. Davies upon his exceedingly able address (hea,r, hear). The only remedy was what the President said, with oansid-oiable 9mphasis, that tho alleviation of tho poor would come when Christ c.,Av..e in truth, and when every man and child would kneel down end say, "Our Father, which art in heaven," with t.he idea of common brotherhood. He felt that there was a stigma attaching' to poor relief. Mr Birdham was nor ashamed to say that he reached old age, and was pensioned. That was not a stigma, for tie had served the State well, and he fully deserved his retiring allowance—(hear, hear)—but there were working men who had also served the State, but who had not reoeived pensions so far. In his sacred calling, he had oome across nati who had gone under through no fault of their own, end he thought they had a right to share in the prosperity of the oountry. It was quite natural that most of them felt reluctant to yield any of their power, and they were rather vexed at seeing it pass cut of their hajids. He did not think there should be a house in the coun- ,,e-e pressed ul)-n the people. it try w, was an awful thing, and he himself had seen a lot of innocent ohiidren standing round a table snatching at a crust which one cif them had bee'trc-d. He did not hold the same ideas of politics as some in the room, but he was in ac- cord with all those who hoped that this was only the beginning, and lie hoped every encourage- ment would be given the Chancellor of the Ex- chequer (near, heM). Let them go on dreaiming of the time when thero would be no poverty (hear, hear). Mr HUGH THOMAS (ohairman of the Ban- ,-or and Beiaurn-aris Board of Guard ions) re- marked that Mr Petrio had found fomlt with the administration of the Act. He found fault with it on one or two other points. First of all, there was the disqualification, which, they were told, went on for twelve months at the furthest. Let that be done away with in the least possible time (hear, hear). Only the other day he read of a poor fellow who lost his chance of a pension and his vote, because he received 4s from the relieving officer during the winter. The con- tributory basis in connection with old age pen- sions also required consideration. Thousands Of pounds were wasted in this country- which might be devoted towards old age pensions. Last spring there was a football match at Beaumarie —a small town, and the gate money amounted to no less tihan £ 37. If the young imen attend- ing the match were aaked to oontributo 6d or la weekly towards their parents they would pro- bably refuse. He hoped the Conference would agitate until the defects were remedied. Mr ALFRED RICHARDS (Carnarvon) de- scribed Mr Biroham as a living example of a pensioner, but an example of one who had con- tributed towards it. In saying that he hoped it would not be concluded that he was in favour of contributory pensions. As an abstract, oon- tributory pensions were, no doubt, the proper thing, but in practioe they were impossible. Take for instance the poor working man unable to ed?rti ro than :Cl weekly, and circumstances "lo arose such as a strike, over which he had no control. How was it possible for such a man to GGiitribute Is or 2s? In his opinion, however, the great defect of the pres.ent Act was the dif- ferentiation which took place. He maintained that tho view taken by the Rev. W. Morgan was the only way of meeting the difficulty—that pensions must be contributed to by way of taxa- tion. If a man paid towards providing pensions, directly or indirectly (by taxes on sugar and other commodities), he should be entitled to a pension when he attained the age of 70 without any regard to his position, or whether he has two or three thousand pounds at the ba.nk or only sixpence. That man had contributed to- wards a pension, and there was no more stigma attaching to the receipt of that pension than there would bo to the pension enjoyed by Mr Bircham (hear, hear). As a Conference, thoy should advocate for the abolition cf all disquali- fications which at present attached to the mea- sure. He was in favour of handing over the ad- ministration ,of the Act to the County Councils, haying regard to the fact that in time public opinion would become so strong that the dis- qualifications would certainly be done away with. Mr W. JONES (Festiniog), speaking in Welsh, moved a vote of thanks to Mr Brown for what ho described as his remarkably fine paper. He was afraid tha;t a good deal of deceit would be practised in regard to the pemlow, and it was only right that the Boards of Guardians all over the country should make their voices heard. Mr J. T. JONES (Criocieth), who has been a guardian for 39 years, sieconded the vet) of thanks. He mentioned that ho was on the Pensions Sub-OJlmmitloo for his district, and he did not know whether he would have to act differently to what he had acted whilst on the 'L B o, rd Of GtLardiano. He always felt tir?e N,ar- ious Boards in North Wales had done their duty. lie did not agree with the Rev. W. Morgan that a 53 pension should bo universal. The fcne must be drawn somewhere.. There were men who had spent dissolute lives, without any vestige of character, and surely they were not entitled to old age pensions (hear, hear). It was all very well for the reverend gentleman to speak in his capacity as a clergyman, but that sort of thing could b3 overdone! Mr ROBERT JONES (St. Asaph) oonfes-el that he vvus at a loss to know what the objact of the discussion was, unless it was intended to pass a resolution recommending an amendment Personally, he was in sympathy with old age pensions, and should like to see the principle extended, but he thought the guardians were t.ho most capable persons to undertake the work- As it was, the County Councys had plenty of ivork to do, and there Nv&,3 no noee.?,sit,y t,> ;Ic?, P- .dl tionaj upon thcrn. On thQ 'Pe-Lslonl- Comnnttea in his district there was onlv onJ gentleman connected with the Poor Law That wasi scarcely right, for they as guardians should have some voice in the matter. The PRESIDENT askStl Mr Jones whether he had any .suggestions to make9 Mr JONES: I propose that we leave it tmiil to-morrow morning, so that I can preparo a resolution. Mr LLOYD JOHN (Corwen) pointed out that the new Act was purely an experimental one. Mr HARDING ROBERTS (Holywell) said ,?,o w ,h-d to off,'?r t?o Mr Brown lii-s pe.ri,)n?i.i' ?,ia.nk.-3 for 11 1' l?ind;io,3s in atbc-nditi, and d- livening the address. He deplored the ten- dency which existed to bo "unjust to the Boards of Guardians for their pa.st work. He hOt eJ ie Po? WI!I'c<>I-n It P"?!tlellt oo.,P-'rLitt?o3,3 would Lo in- fected by the germ of competency of the Boards of Guardians, who had dealt with such matters for years. He wished to thank the Pmtidant for what was the test presidential address he had ever heard at any conference. In his Union they had on the oooks 337 pe.r- soncs of 70, who received out-door relief, and out of that number 93 were already reoeiving okl age pensions, whilst 244 were living with pe-raons competent to keep them- A machinery which had brought its operations almost to perfection was to be superseded by one at- tached to the County Councils, which were aJ- road y overworked. Mr BROWN, in acknowledging the vote urged the guardians present to urge their Boards to join the Poor Law Unions Associa- tion, which had done immense services—ser- vices which had earned an acknowledgment from the Government. Ho hoped that Wales would bo better represented on the Association. Mrs BATTERS (Holywell) thought every Union should join the Association. On the motion of Mr JOHN (Corwen) second- ed by Canon T. EDWARDS, a resolution was p&ji&d urging- all Boards to join Association. iho party a* w»i: drove through Penrnyn Park to tho Pen-rhyn Quarries, where a special blast was arranged for them, and under the guida.nc3 of Mr D. D. Davies, tho local mana- ger, they were shown the operations of split- ting and dressuig slates, and the ex pert news of the men won genoral praise. Subsequently the party were entertained to tea at Ogwen 'funk by Lord Penrhyn- THE SECOND St.-TINe. THE CHILDREN'S BILL. PLEA FOR WELSH-SPEAKING EXCS3 OFFICERS- The second sitting of the Conference tooli place yesterday (Wednesday), wben even a larg-or number of delegates than on the pre- vious day at.ended. ihe President occupied the chair. Mr ROBERT JONES (St. Asaph) re-op:ncd the discussion anont tho Pensions Act, and ex- plained that on the previous day he was in lathor a dilemma as to what the discission was for. He intended moving a resolution with re- gard to tho appointment of the Pensions Com- mittees and that a few guardians should be included in them. lho authority was vested in the County Councils, and he believed tha: ,f they Were approa4ch4ed in a prop3r sptrit their reqLzgYir would be ornoeded The ll'o<)r La,w rnachin-3ry had beer, at w' ork for tIlTOe quarters of a century, and had done an im- mense amount of work. He thought the pub- lic were indebted to the Press for the infor- mation they had given in conncetion with the new Bill. It was no ueo condemning the Act at present, because it had gone through the House, but they might matte a recommenda- tion in view of future legislation. Mr HUGH THOMAS (Beaumaris) did not disagireo with the remarks of the previous s,waker, but he pointed out that it was rather a belated protest for the sub-coftimitteej had been already formed- While he was on his feet lid would like to make an explamatio-n with regard to a remark he made on the previous 'OlnA of t'l)-o d? labouring under a misapprehension concerning the statement he made that persons should subscribe to a pension fund. He did not mean those who were heavily burdened; he meant ttio yotith,,3 and b-w-h?-,?lom (ltu.ghtor). Mr FRYER (Fl6ward?en) said that he, differ,?,.d from Mr Thomas, that a n-waSUre was law it sh4auld not be kb3ou&,x3,d. They in'ht .u -? -ban t? v be( able t-o gec? ,mondn in iew of fu't?x..3 legi,Ia.tlorn. Ile OODourrcd with the honorzr.7 ,?&creta,y, that g,,iardla&3 )v-g.ht to ro&ent the suggestions thrown upon their work, and the in'f,-iano-.3 that tbev wore not to be trus-ed with the admitii,3?,rz?tion of the pens-()ns ?,t. Ilo also agr.a?ld Nvith the Ifter-thottglit lexi).rc-,ised by Mr Bro,.i?u,. that young ? gii-axdi"no after a fc-Av yoars' service, Reri?-rally aitered- their views to those or the old guardians, who had hene- fitod by experience. Whilst he could not lay chum to 37 years service as the -entlernan on the previous day had, lie knew enough of the work of guardians to know that their onerous duties had materially increased of late, but they had honourably performed them. He however, could not agree with the statement th',Lt the cntardiains weire thle b3st fit" to ad- rrur,L-,t,er th-a Pen:sions Act (hbar, hear). 'I'lc next dealt A-ith the work f the friemdl- ti .y pocle Les, and said he f-ea.rod that they did not quite realise its extent or its influence. He did not hold any brief for the friendly societies; ne was not-CAan a roemba though he contributed his httle mate, and lent them his moral support (cheers). At one of their an- nual meeting? about five years ago, he ex- pressed the belief that old age pensions would be m vogue within a short time, and that they would come through tho medium of the friendly feooietiea. He was delighted tot hear the al- most unanimous vote of the Conference in favour of contributory pensions. In connectior ™th tlhe w<?rk of friendly societies he would like to mention the little parish he represented —practically a crofter's parish with a squire in iu • ,ave/a^ of the workingroen in the parish, to give no oxtravagant view, would not be more than El weekly, but no doubt the Conference, woiuld be surprised to learn that in the small partsh no lens .than C130 was dis tnbuted last year in sick pay. There were only 104 in and out voters in the parish, sc they could imagine the amount of the sacrifice, But what dud tho guardians do during that nor lod? They expended the magnificent sum oi J315 to 220. He would be exceedingly sorry if any Acts were passed which would militate against tho friendly societies (hear, hear). Mr JOHN, ROBERTS (Bangor) hoped that the Conference would not be too drastic in re- gard to an Aot which was yet unborn, or at least undeveloped, but he was quite in sym- pathy with the resolution proposed by Mr Roberts in its ideal, but he failed to see the necessity for it for membero of Boards of Guardians, being public men, must of necessity be on the Poms ions Committee. Let them look round the public men in the counties, and he was sure they would find very few who had not had their baptism of public life in Boards of Guardians, even if they were not still at- t&e .I)ed to Boards. Tl~ men could ri(,t liclp being on the Pensions Committee (hear, hear). Mr ROBERT'S (Llanfyllin) said that if the resolution was in order he would second it. The PRESIDENT: Yes, it is in order. Mr ROBERTS then said he strongly sup- ported the resolution. He said that Old Age Pension Schemes had been tried by Reman and Crock, Jew and Gentile, and he was p oud, speaking quite apart from politics, that it had fallen to the lot of one of his countrymen to add the I act quota to the alleviation of the lot of his fellow countrymen (hear, hear). As a guardian, ho had given a great deal of his time to fully understand the working of the Poor Law, and he felt very much like other gentlemen who had exprassod themselves, rot in a. spirit of jealousy, that the working of the- now Bill was un.f-sur towards men who had given 20, 30, and even 40 years of their lives in order to try and do what was right to their more unfortunate brothers and sisters. It cer- tainly was an injustice to the guardians that they should b) looked over in favour of novi.es to work the Bill. Not because "uardians were 'I Ix anx 'oas for ink)ro work, but they htd served their apprenticeship, and trey were the peo- ple to do the work. Mr Hugh Thomas had said that young men should contribute, but he thought that when a man had paid rates and taxets, and had borne a good character, he had contributed (hoar, hear). Where he came from the farm labourer:) earned only from 12'1 to 153-more, shame to their employers, and how could they be expected to contributed out of such small wages to a pension fund ? When he paid taxoi on his toi and sugar he contri- buted towards a pension sc-hcmc, and in re- ceiving a pension ho was only obtaining what he had paid back again (cheers)- Let a word be sent from all Boards of Guardians to the County Councils demanding that they, as guardians, should continue their work. THE NEW ACT DEFENDED. Dr. JOHN ROBERTS (M,n,.Li B:idge) feared tiK ro was a lit.fa liiisapprenciision ir,;m the y-ry beginning of the discussion as to the ob- jects in vie w. They seemed to fcrg'et that the posr law system led been based upon local ad- niinistrati::ui and local inliu-tioes, whilst tile old zii vem,,Yit stzlrted on a broader it ia.a?i an en?a-g i-r?.eiit of ol I -,?Lr ty in t-ils way, that every man who was past 70 was ncm.naily entitled to a pension, and tho Act was an I imperial Act, both in its intention and administration ranking on the same foot- ing as the Pest Office and other central Acts. At present a Oo-mmis .on v. sitting, which was realty investigating t e poeir law and its ad- ,n;iistr,- i,,ii. an h.- wculd bo s?)r,ry, *L' d Itllcy as all,,wo?i b'e to that tl,,oy v.-cip,3 carping at the new Act, w"ilc?'i tif-ey really hjrs no title to -administer. He porson- ally believed the Act would be administered in an excellent way. According to the lines laid down every man, whether drunk or sober, when he had iiassed a certain age, was entitled to a pensicm. II:) (hoped in future that some method would fce adopted which would partake of the character oif a contributory pension. It would be discretion on t,heir part to respect the .new Act in its who'e structure, and leave its ad- m, s 7,1 t' I ,t f.-> the sol-ec,d authctit'cs. Mr SIMON JONES (Wrexham) said it would be inc m-isterit on his part to support the reso- lution. II3 was present at the meeting of the 1_,zhsh' Do-.tb' li?? C'?-iirtty C-o!ln4cit ivl?i-n the various District Pension Committees were appointed, and he was those appointed fcr the Wrexham district, bat he deolined to act. feel- ing nimsolf fully occupied with other duties. H did not cb-sorve any desire on the part cf tho County Council to exclude guardians frcm the committee; in fact. t'ej seemed actuated c.nly with the idea to appoint the best men. At tho present moment he was not sorry that the administration of the Pensions Act was to a larare extent separated trem the administration of the poor law, f?r there wis a sentiment, and a strong sentiment too, against prcr relief. Many a man bad struggled hard to avoid the necessity of applying for poor re ioc. Let them call it sentiment", it was after all an honourable seitimont. T ey should not f.rgot that it was an experimental Act. and with experience there would be progress in the right direction. He boheved tint aim st tho whole of tho work would in tin e ii'all upon the o.o so officer, and he was not sure how he would 4o his work. Mr HARRY CLEGG (Llanfair P.G.) imen- tienod that in Anglesey the Pension Committees consisted of nine persons, five of whom were chosen by t e County Council, nd the le.ma ncler ware members of friendly societies L4rd persons with a kn wledge of the poor. Mr ROBERT JONES (St. Asaph) then form- ally moved "Jhat this Conferenoj is of opinion that the Pensions Oommittees of tho County Councils shou'd co-op < on their representa- tive local committees members of Boards of Guardians, and that it bo a i eeommendation to each Board of Guardian in North Wales to communicate with their rospcotive County Councils." „ The imotion, on being put to the vote, was lost. Mr McCLEMENT (Pemn laanma wr) felt it a grievance that most of the Excise men in Wales were cither Sootollmen or Irishmen— (laughter)—and a large number of applicants for pensions would be unable to express them- selves in English. He rather regretted the tone of tho Conference CtU the previous day. It in- dicated rather a contracted view df tho situation, and gave the impression that the opposition to the new Aot was based on the fact that they wore not going to administer it (hoar, hear). Mr ALFRED RICHARDS (Carnarvon) thought a resolution should be approved urging the appointment of Welsh-speaking* Excise offi- oers. It needed no words for him to support such a resolution. Mr PARRY (Oorwen) seconded the resolu- tion, and he also expressed the opinion that ladies should be elected on the Pensions Com- mittees. After further discussion, tho resolution advo- cating the appointment of Welsh-speaking Ex- cise officers was oarried. CENTRAL POOR LAW CONFERENCE. The SECRETARY stated that the next busi- ness was the appointment, of representatives on the Central Poor Law Conference, and men- tioned that the retiring 'representatives were Mrs Batters, Mr Simon Jones and himself. Mr PETRIE (Holywell) moved their re-elec- tion and Mr Jones (Ruthin) seconded. Mr SIMON JONES pleaded to be excused, and Mr WILLIAMS (Carnarvon) suggested the name of Mr W. J. Parry, Bet.hesda, in his stead, so that tho Carnarvonshire district might have a representative. 0 Mr PETRIE Can Mr Parry attend? We must have persons who can attend. The PRESIDENT: Pe-rhaps Mr Parry will answer. Mr W. J. PARRY: It will depend upon my appointment. Dr. J. ROBERTS (Menai Bridge) proposed that Mr Simon Jones should be asked to stand again, and Mr HARDING ROBERTS sup- ported, saying it was very desirable to have persons who could attend. Eventually, the three retiring members were re-appointed. BALANCE-SHEET. The SECRETARY reported that. the balonce in hand amounted to 10s 2d. The small bal- ance last year was due to the fact that four Unions had nOlt sent in their contributions, but he was pleased to report that all the Unions with the exception of three, whose contributions he shortly hoped to receive, had subscribed to the funds for t'he ensuing year. Mr SIMON JONES proposed the adoption of the balanco-sheet, and said that Mr Harding Roberts should be thankoo for his arduous duties on behalf of the Conference (hear, hear). VENUE OF NEXT YEAR'S CON- FERENCE. The SECRETARY stated that an invitation had been received from Wrexham for next year's Conference. Mr SIMON JONES supported the invitation, and said that a hearty welcome would be accord- ed the delegates. They had a few attractions, such as the Parish Church with its remarkable steeple, described as one of the seven wonders of Wales; the birthplace of the notorious Judge | Jeffreys; and the new wards of the Infirmary, erected at a cost of £ 15,000. Mrs BIRKETT EVANS (Wrexham) also sup- ported the invitation, which was accepted. SUGGESTED SANATORIUM FOR NORTH I WALES. Dr. ROBERTS (Menai Bridge) mentioned the suggestion made at a meeting of the Bangor and Beaumaris Board to provide a Sanatorium, say > for Anglesey and Carnarvonshire, or for North Wales. Could that subject not be ventilated at -the next Conference? The subject was certainly a pressing one. The PRESIDENT: I suggest it might be left to the committee, who will arrange the details for the Conference. THE CHILDREN'S BILL, GENERAL PRAISE. A paper prepared by Miss F. PENROSE PIIELP, secretary of the State Children's Asso- ciation, London, dealing with the Children's Bill, was read by her sister, who explained that Miss Phelp was unwell. In the course of her paper, Miss Phelp stated that one of the best features of the social life of to-day was the intense in- terest taken in children, an interest no longer content to express itself in unthinking, and there- fore often mistaken kindness, but desiring to act with wisdom and foresight, with care for the growing body and plastic mind. They were also beginning to realise that when care had been given to the body and mind there was yet an- other province with which they must deal, or our cai-o fo ? nil-.id and body wo,Id be but wasted ev energy. Tzl must learn to consider each chi](] as a se_)ar-ate soul. "What ma,-iner of child shall this be?" a question they, who had In any way to touch and shape the lives of chil- dren, must ask them in all earnestness, and they dared no longer only be content to reply that it should be fed and clothed and housed; it was their part also to see that its God-given capa- bilities should have room to grow and bear fruit, that its inherited faults and weaknesses should be corrected with patience and with affection, and above all that the charity which never failed it was should form the atino3phere in wli;ch reared. It was pleasant to be able to congratulate Guardians on the large part they took in bring- ing about through the Poor Law Unions' Asso- ciation the amendments in this section which had secured to luckless single nurse-child cases the protection of the law; and in particular should be mentioned the name of Miss Brodie Hall, Poor Law Guardian of the Eastbourne Unlon-(cheors),-who, for ten years, has taken a foremost part in working for this reform. Hitherto the lack of inspection for these infants, whose forlorn position demanded their utmost protection and care, while at the same time it rendered them especially liable to ill-treatment, had resulted in a constantly recurring history of crime and death. In the Provinces during the last four years 2000 complaints regarding the treatment of these children were received by the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, while in a far shorter period four women had been hanged for compassing the death of such children. One shrank from considering the number of cases about which no complaint reached the N.S.P.C.C., and the still further number where, though no active cruelty was practised or intended, ignorance and care- lessness resulted in permanent injury to the chil- dren's health and well-being. FIRE GUARDS AND CHILDREN. One clause of the new Act made it an offence liable to a fine not exceeding £10 for any one over the age of sixteen to allow a child under the age of seven years to be in any room con- taining an open tire grate not sufficiently pro- tc ,.c ted to g?,Lai,d ag??.;?ist the risk of the el-illd's being burnt or scalded. This clause gave rise to much discussion in committee, it being contended by some members that it would but inflict addi- tional hardships on poor parents, and a sugges- tion was made that it should be the duty of the landlord to provide proper li re guards; but those who had studied the statistics of Coroner's Courts, and taken to heart the distressful num- ber of young lives sacrificed in most cases to carelessness and not to poverty, held firmly to their point and the clause passed. Part three of tho Bill dealt with juvenile smoking, and whether from the fact. that it was altogether new, and therefore to some minds must be large-ly if not altogether bad, or whe- ther because ot a lurking feai* in the minds of legislators that it was a dangerous first step to the limitation of the habit in adults, pro\ed to bo the most controversial part of the mea- sure. But a-i there was abundant evidence from education exports, from the Departmental Committee on Physical Deterioration, fKJùn in,-?d;c,:ii kii, wiedg?e, and rriiny other 1-)er'in-ent mr?-3, that uv,,P.Ilo smoklr- -was an un- ?t -g' I- ,aiiist it rrux4xi evil, at,,(! th, t e 1,? ilat,:on t, in other countries had b:en productive of ex- cellent results, they oould be unfeignedly g'ad that the six brief clauses of Part 111. made it an offence to sell or give tobacco in the form of cigaiettes to children or young persons, em- powered constables, park keepers, or any other persons to forfeit cigarettes in the possession of any one apparently under the age of sixteen, and imposed a reprimand for a first offence, and graduated fines for further offences on children or young persons found smoking in a street or publio place. Dealing with juvenile offenders, Miss PHILP said:—"Of all classes of children re- quiring help delinquent children stand iy the first rank, but in the past thoy have b en much lieglocted. This part of the JJUI, there- fore, is in many ways the most important. It follows ekxxjly on the Probation of L>nonder3 Act of 1907, which introduced for the first time in English law remedial and not merely puni- tive treatment for law-breakers. It provides that bail bo allowed in every possible caae for juvenile delinquents on artoit, and where biil is not thought advisable for reasons set forth in the Bill the young offenders are not to be confined in tho police cells, but to be detained "in places of detention," to be provided by f-vcry police authority for every pejtty ses- sessional division. Men sub-sections of the clause relating to these places of detention give full directions as to the land of provision to bo made, and require registers of these pltoes to be kept, such register to be supplied to every court house and police station in the area to which it relates. As far as possible children brought to the police stations are to be kept apart from adults; when brought to court their parents or guardians snail be re- quired to attend, and if the court finds the offence with which a child is charged punish- able by the imposition of a fine, the parent must pay that fine unless the court is satisfied that the commission of the offence was in no way conduced by his neglecting to exercise due care of the child. The Bill also provides that in future no child shall be sent to prison, and no young person either unless it b3 proved that he is of so unruly a cha-racter that nothing else can be done with him, but in no case is even a young person to bo sentenced to penal servitude for any offence. The death sentence will never again be either recorded or pronounced against a child or voung pen )/i (The provision of a separate court ior the hearing- of all juvenile cases is compulsory un- der the Bill, and it is loft to the court to ar- range whether it shall sit. in a different build- ing or room from that of the ordinary court, or shall secure separation of children's from adults' oases by meeting on different cays or at different times from the usual fittings. Pro- vision is to be made for preventing children, while being conveyed to and from the court- house or whil.,t. waiting before or arier their attendance. from associating with o.in.inal adults It is also forbidden that children be allowed in court during the trial of any per- son, except during such t'ime as they are re- quired as witnesses or for other purposes of justice. in conclusion. Miss Philp stated it was by no means a per feet measure, for there are large questions affecting children, such as employ- ment, illegitimacy, and several other- entirely untouched by it. Only thee, however, who had been concerned in the framing or amending of the Bill could appreciate the difficulties to be overo>m>e or avoided in such a measure. They thankfully acknowledged its advaroe on previous legislation, for two great principles wero re.ogni.scd in it, first the necessity of treating children individually, and secondly tie principle of .parental responsibility. These principles must form the basis of any catreful progretisivo legislation- for children; parents must learn that tW were an,Nier ble not only morally, but to the law of the land for their children's wrong-doing, and they m. st all. realise that no method of dealing wnth the children was right or could be successful that denied full play to their individuality, did net teach oalf-.restraint and self-reliance, and gave opportunity to that most beneficent factor in the formation of character, the exorcise of affoction (a.pplause). The PRESIDENT said that in expressing at tli4e I)G,? of th,, rl 'I -I o,3 w ter 6f tl:.o tli--v certainly had to C,GDg.-a,Llllt,- h-c r a.c,e.oit-tpli.,iii'd deputy. A c--tild s,,ifter in the hands of those who read it, but in this case he was sure no paper could have been more perfectly handled, and he hoped that the Con- ference would take time to digest it. A TOBACCONIST PRAISES THE BILL. Mr JOSEPH DAVIES (Bangor) said he was sure that the Government, com jested as Parlia- ment was with contentions measures, would derive some satisfaction from any resolution passed in favour of their Children's Bill, and he moved "That this Conference expresses its great satisfaction at the introduction by the Government of the Children's Bill, and ear- nestly hopes that it will pa-v, into law during the present session." With regard to the pro- visions to stop juvenile smoking, he might mention that, though a tobacconist, he was greatly opposed to juvenile smoking (hear, hear). He made an attempt at stopping it so far as he could in Bangor, but he had to ac- knowledge that his attempt was a failure. For the manner it grappled with juvenile smoking with all its attendant ovils, he thought the Bill a most important one (hear, hear). Mrs BIRKETT EVANS (Wrexham) also praised the Bill, which she said was satisfactory in every respect- She wished to subscribe her quota of praise to the writes: of the paper, for it was excellent. It was a wise step in her opinion to establish special courts for children, for she happened to attend a police oourt on one occasion at Wrexham, and she saw a boy giving evidence. The poor boy was in a ter- ribl-e state of fright, and it was really one of the most cruel things she had witnessed for a long time. Mrs CASSON, Portmadoe, who was received with cheers, said she did not think the clauses in the Bill dealing with industrial schools could not possibly be amended. She, for one, would not like to send children to industrial schools because they might come out worse than they went in. Referring to the legislation proposed with regard to open fire grates, she would suggest that a fine .should be imposed on par- entd who allowed their ohildren to wear flan- nelette, or who bought matches. This pronouncement was reoeived with vigor- ous cheering but Mrs Casson subsequently, in a conversation with a reporter, explained that she spoke sarcastically on that point, for, she said, f they are going to fine parents for not 'ding ?re,-uar(.6-, which poor pc-,odle coilia provI not afford to do, i,hey might as weil fine them for buying matches. Proceeding, Mrs Casson said there was one thing which was most urgent, and she would beg the Guardians who had influence to use that influence to get it done. In the law which related to offences against girls under 16 notice must be given within three months of the offence. That reduced the clause to absolute nonsense, because they never heard of such cases r within three months. As a rule, they could not get at the evidence under twelve months, so der that tile offen -o )ff .scot free, and there was no possible remedy. Another matter that required amendment was that when a mother entered a Workhouse, she brought her children with her. That was very bad for the children in every way, and she would suggest that every Workhouse should have a Cottage Home at- tached to it, at a reasonable distance, to which chi'dren could be sent. She did not mean such luxurious Cottage Homes as included hot water pines, etc., but plain, wholesome places which were much better for the children—(hear, hear), —and the children should be sent there and kept there while their mother was in the Workhouse (hear, h,4ear). A Workhouse., w'th th, nio.-3t ner- ri fect master and matron, was the very worst place in the world for children (hear, hear). Chil- dren, though they might be well looked after collectively and individually in a Workhouse, never learnt to do anything there. There was (for them) no kettle to boil, or toast to make, or door to shut or open; everything was dona for them. PILFERING CHILDREN. That was bad for the children (hear, hear). If they kept children in a Workhouse they inevitably began to pilfer. It was very curious, and very sad, but that was what did happen, and when- ever she heard of children pilfering, she was only profoundly sorry, "because we all want some- thing of our own." So do children. In a Work- house they have absolutely nothing of their own, and they have nowhere to keep anything if they had anything (hear, hear). They see other chil- dren who have things of their own, and-well you can understand such children pilfering (cheers). In a Cottage Home, such an irresist- ible temptation would be done away with—(loud cheers),—and children, they must remember, did not mind so much, want of food; but they will die if you don't love them (emphatic expression of assent). That had been found out at Found- ling Hospitals. In such places they were kept scrupulously clean, and dealt with in a most per- fect way, but a large percentage died in twelve months. It was attention the children wanted, and a little more or less dirt was not to them such a great consideration (cheers). Then, again, there was the question of feeble- minded children. There was scarcely any place to which such as these could be sent to and pro- perly cared for. Much could be done for such children in the way of a proper food regime and judicious mental training, but there were few homes for epileptic children, and they were en- ormously expensive and almost always quite full, and she (Mrs Casson) would suggest that all the Boards of Guardians in North Wales should unite in the provision of such a home. She did not think an expensive home was required, and she did not think the Local Government Board would obiect to an economical expenditure on such a home. Again, boys required looking after after leaving their care. The girls were looked after pretty well by the excellent Girls' Friendly So- ciety, but there was no society to look after the boy3. She suggested that something might be dono in that direction (loud cheers). Mr R. H. WILLIAMS, Poor Law inspector, said he always told Boards of Guardians when he visited them in the course of his duty that children did not need to be in the Workhouse at all. The ideal system was the boarding out system (hear, hear). He did not think the Local Government Board would object to have this matter handled economically (hear, hear). He was sorry there was not a home for epileptic children in the district, and he was not sure that the Education Authority was not to blame in this matter (hear, hear). He thought the Poor Law Commission now sitting would report on many of the problems raised by Mrs Casson that morning (applause). A telegram from Mr Lloyd, of Rhaggatt, was now read, asking the meeting to consider favour- ably the State Children's Aid Association. Mr ROBERT JONES, master of the St. Asaph Workhouse, having snoken, the discus- sion was continued by Mr ROBERTS, of Llan- fyllin, and Mr HARDING ROBERTS. Mr T. EDWARDS (Bangor) said he was afraid that g'uardians were not the guardians of poor children after they attained the age of 14, and it was surprising how soon it was dis- covered that they rcoohed that ago. He com- mended the work carried on at the Maesgarnedd Cnildren's Homo attached to the Bangor Union. Ho added that he was glad so much attention iha-d been paid to the Christian side of a guard- ian's work at the Conference (hear, hear). At the request of the President, Miss CHAMPNEYS, of the Conway Guardians, also spoke. She said the provision in the Bill for the inspection of single homes would be of the utmost benefit. The great thing was to throw responsibility for ohildren on their parents (hear, hear). This Bill did that. She also spoke strongly in favour of a training home for children before they 14t the house to go into service. Sihe knew of oases whore workhouso children went to scrvice at wag"os of 2d a week* They had done away with that forrai of vvTiite slavery, and they now got Is 6d a week in wages (applause). Mr Joseph Davies' motion was then put to tho meeting, and carried unanimously. Miss PHILP, having replied to the discussion on hor sister's paper, in the oourse of which she endorsed Mrs Ca-sson's suggestion that the time limit in cases of assaults upon girls under 16 be extended from three months to a much longer period. M-rs CASSON proposed that the Conference should express its opinion that the time limit should be extended to 12 months. This was unanimously agreed to. Votes of thanks were accorded the President, whose address was again warmly praised, tho readers of papers, to l,ord Penrhyn, and Mr E. A. Young, tihe manager cif the. Penrhyn Quarries, for their hospitality; to Mr Harding Roberts, the secretary, who, said Mr Simon Jones, was a ge.nius at arranging conferences* and to the looal see:clary (Mr John Roberts)..
THE LUNCHEON.
THE LUNCHEON. After tho meeting the President invited the delegates to luncheon at the Pem'.iyn Hall. Ad- mirable in every msjxect, was tho menu provided by Mr and Mrs Morris, of the Anglesey Anins Hotel, M-C.Tlll Bridge. The PRESIDENT proposed the toast of "The King," and Mr FRlMSTON (Rhyl) moved a vote of thanks to the President for his hospi- tality. He said that he had attended several conferences, but tho cno just ooncludcd was the most suocessful oif them all. and he particularly eulogised the President's paper, which was a masterpiece, and ho was glad that it was to be translated into Welsh. The PRESIDENT briefly acknowledged the vote. He said that a guardian of the poor was a man who dcMrved tho thanks from his fellow- men, for he was fulfilling a high place, and doing his duty to his fellow-men and his ooun* try (hear, hear).
GARDEN PARTY AT PLAS LLANFAIR.
GARDEN PARTY AT PLAS LLANFAIR. The delegates, with a number of friends, were entertained to a garden party at Plas Llamair, bv Mr and Mrs Harry C'iegg. They embarked on the "Lady Magdalen," which was kindly lent bv the Bangor Corporation, and en route to Plas Nevvydd, paid a visit to the "Clio" In- dustrial Trainingship. The steamer proceeded opposite Plas Llanfair, where the guests were landed in boats, and were received by Mr and Mr3 Harry Olegg, who made ample arrangements for their entertainment. Summerson's Pier- rots frcm Bangor gave a performance, and the Menai Bridge Brass Ba.nd also played selections. Tea was provided in a large marquee. With one accord the delegates testified to the thoroughness of the lecal arrangements, both for the mootings and for the trips, and much of the work devolved upon Mr John Roberts, Ship and Castle, tihe local secretary, who left no stone un-turned to make the Conference what it i undoubtedly was, & conspicuous suooess. <