The North Wales Times

RUTHIN. INTERMEDIATE EDUCATION. It will be gratifying to the supporters of In- termediate Education within the county to know that the total amount of the Treasury Grant claimed— £ 2,127 17s. 5d.-has been re- ceived, and deposited to the account of the County Governing Body. THE LATE Ml-t. JONES, PARK PLACE INN. The funeral of the above took place at Llan- fwrog church, on Saturday, Rev. J. F. Reece officiating. Amongst those present were the employees of Messrs. R. Ellis and Sons, with whose works deceased was at one time con- nected. THE FIRE BRIGADE. Captain Iiouw, on behalf of the Fire Brigade begs to acknowledge the receipt; of a subscrip- tion of 10s. from Mrs. Coltart; a guinea from Dr. Jenkins, a donation of a guinea and an annual subscription of a similar amount from Mr. Mapplebick, an annual subscription of a guinea from the High Sheriff (Mr. E. O. V. Lloyd), and a sum of 95 from an anonymous donor. FUNERAL OF THE LATE MISS GREEN, FLORENCE HOUSE. The funeral of the late Miss Green, who died suddenly on Tuesday week, at Rhyl, took place on Saturday, the remains being interred at the Cemetery, St. Peter's church. The funeral was a private one, but two deputations attended from the Girls' Friendly Society, and the Ruth n Jubilee Nursery Fund. Wreaths were also forwarded by the two societies. On Sunday, the Rev. the Warden preached a spe- cial sermon, in the course of which he referred to the great loss sustained through the death of .Miss Green. For many years, the deceased acted as an organist to the Welsh services at St. Peter's church, and took deep interest in all matters affecting the church. A MINSTREL ENTERTAINMENT. At Brynhyfryd Schools, on Thursday night, a very successful and interesting Minstrel En- tertainment was given by the Llanbedr Black Swallow Mir.stvel Troupe, under the patronage of Mr. E. 0. V. Lloyd (High Sheriff), the Mayor of Rut.hin (Mr Ezra Roberts), and several other well known and influential ladies and gentlemen in the neighbourhood. The pro- gramme consisted of sentimental and comic songs, choruses, jokes, &c., concluded with a Comic Darkey Sketch, entitled 'Mischievous Moses.' The dramatis were represented by Messrs. W. Brocklehurst, W. Seamark, D. Davies, and D. Brocklehurst. Mr. W. A. Lloyd, organist of Llanbedr Church, was the accom- panist Mr. W. Brocklehurst the interlocutor Messrs. G. Brocklehurst and D. Davies, tne bones; and Messrs. W. Seamark and D. Parry, the tambourines. The proceeds were devoted to the fund which is being raised to put in order the ruins of the old Parish Church and church- yard in Llanbedr Park. DENBIGH, RUTHIN, AND CORWEN WESLEYAN CIRCUITS. A Convention of the representatives of the above yircuits was held at Ruthin, on Thurs- day. At 10 a.m., a meeting for preachers was held under the presidency of Mr. J. Hughes, Clocaenog, when papers were read by Mr. D. H. Davies (Denbigh), and the Rev. L. Lewis (Ruthin). At 2 p.m., a general meeting of church members was held, Mr. Thomas Lloyd Roberts (Denbigh), taking the chair. Mr. Thomas Hughes (Denbigh), read a paper; and the discussion was opened by Mr. Richard Williams (Corwen). In the evening, a public meeting was held, Mr. J. Harrison Jones (Den- bigh), being in the chair. The Rev. Thomas Roberts (Corwen), read a paper on Chris- tianity and Man;' and the discussion was opened by the Rev David Jones (Denbigh). Mr. Boaz Jones also read a paper on Chris- t-ianityand the Family;' and Mr. J. Davies, Wern Ddu, Gwyddelwern, opened the discus- sion, in which several members took part. The Ruthin fri "mis had kindly provided tea for the visitors, and the Convention was a most successful one. SCHOOL BOARD. A meeting of the School Board was held on Friday night, the Chairman (Mr. J.W. Lumley) presiding. Speaking on the Education Bill, the Chairman said it was very necessary for the public to watch the effect of the proposals of the Government with regard to the increased grant to Voluntary Schools. It was necessary for the School Board to endyeavour to influence the ratepayers to support the Board Schools by gending t,heir children there. It would very likely happen that when the grant was passed, the friends of the Voluntary Schools would make an effort, for which he did not blame them, to get as many children to go to the Voluntary Schools as they could, for the pur- pose of earning the larger grants and if the ,addition of the attendance at the other school was obtained by reducing the attendance at the Board School, the consequent reduction in the grant would fall on the ratepayers of the dis- trict, the reduction in the grant having to be met by higher rates. He spoke simply on financial grounds and parents who had a con- scientious belief that they ought to send their children to a particular school to obtain for them a particular education had a perfect right to do so. Subsequently, a resolution was passed strong- ly disapproving of the extra State-aid to Vo- luntary Schools unless similar aid were given to necessitous Board Schools. The Clerk (Mr. Ezra Robes is), made the sug- gestion that the test of necessity in Board Schools should be that the rates in their dis- trict did not exceed C20 for each penny in the pound levied, such schools being for country districts only. The Board also disapproved of the appoint- ment of Mr. Legard as the Chief Inspector of Schools for Wales, the mover of the motion- Mr. Francis Dowell-saying he did not do so on national grounds, but simply because Mr. Legard did not understand the Welsh language. POLICE COURT. -I"IONDAY.( ore the Warden, Capt. Cole, Messrs. J. W. Lumley, W. T. Rouw, and iv. G. Rigby.

RUTHIN GRAMMAR SCHOOL AND THE WELSH EDUCATION ACT. CHARITY COMMISSION INQUIRY. A special meeting of the Ruthin Town Council was held on Friday, for the purpose of meeting Mr. L. A. Selby-Bigge, an assistant Charity Commissioner, who desired to take the opinion of the Council with reference to the question of intermediate education in the dis- trict, which comprises 12,000 inhabitants. The Ruthin Grammar School, which is mainly in the hands of the Church of England, is man- aged under a scheme issued by the Charity Commission. The Denbighshire intermediate education scheme provides for a boys' school and a girl' school at Ruthin, and the Commis- sion now asked for the observations of the local authorities as to the possibility and desirability of the establishment of the boys' school as a competing institution with the existing Grammar School The Mayor (Alder- man Ezra Roberts) presided. It was pointed out that the Council had passed a resolution in favour of both schools, but Mr. T. P. Roberts said he was positive that many of the members at the time did not understand that it meant setting up a rival school. He had been a mem- ber of the Council for 21 years, and he was sure that the town generally was against that. Dr. Hughes said he would advocate the abandonment of the boys' school provided the governing body of the Grammar School were popularised and its unsectarian character as- surcd* Mr." Ronw said that if a new boys' school were established it would be a, scandalous waste of public money. If Ruthin were polled nine- tenths of the people would support his views. The agitation for the new school was a political thing and to show how the matter had gone so tar he might mention that although there was a considerable minority of Conservatives in the Council, that minority was not allowed to have one representative on the school govern- ing body. Mr. T. H. Roberts said it was of no use hav- ing two schools, but he thought that the fees at the Grammar School should not be higher than at corresponding intermediate schools, as they were at present. Mr. G. F. Byford objected to the two schools clashing, but, with the other speakers, he was anxious that a girls' school should be establish- ed as soon as possible. The Commissioner said the Commissioners were agreed with them as to the necessity of having a girls'. school, and the objections hither- to made to the proposals sent up were solely made on business grounds. Dr. Hughes said that the Ruthin Town Coun- cil only represented 3,000 of the 12,000 resi- dents in the district, and he thought that the District Council, which represented 9,000 inha- bitants, ought to be consulted. Mr. Bigge said he had not been instructed to see the District Council, but no doubt if they wished to give him their views they could do so in writing. Dr. Hughes said it was not right that the representatives of 3,000 of the 12,000 in the district should speak for the whole district. He believed the District Council had already passed resolutions in favour of the whole scheme. Mr. Byford said he knew many of the farm- ers in the surrounding district who sent their boys to the Grammar School, and he believed they were quite satisfied with the way in which the school was managed. As was stated the day before by the Mayor at the meeting of the Grammar School governors, the present school would be acceptable to the Nonconformists of the district provided there was some alteration in the governing body. The Mayor That is the point. Mr. John Roberts asked Mr. Bigge for his interpretation of clause 7 of the scheme, which he held gave them no option but to establish two schools at once. The Commissioner declined to answer the question. What he wanted to know was, what objections were there to the present school ? Mr. John Roberts said that, speaking for himself, one objection was to the practice of the Governors of holding their meetings in private; also that the Nonconformists of Ruthin and Lianelidan, which area was orig- inally intended to be benefited, were grossly under-represented on the Governing Body. Mr. T. J. Roberts said that he could i-peak of the school as he knew it ten year? and he could say that they drilled into him the Catechism by means of which he was induced to utter falsehoods, and that certainly went against his conscience. He had dogmas and tenets drilled into him that were most certain- ly repugnant to him and to his religious views. Moreover, the education afforded was imprac- tical, and there was not the modern element of first class schools. Dr. Hughes said he did not want to be associated with the views expressed by Mr. T. J. Roberts. There was not now any grievance, either as to the religious question or as to the character cf the teaching. He did not think that Mr. Roberts's remarks should be taken as the view generally entertained among Noncon- formisbs. Mr. T. J. Roberts: It is to a large extent, sir. Dr. Hughes said that, since they were trot- ting out grievances, the chairman of ttlfe Gram- mar School Governors had stated in a pamphlet circulated round the country that it was his avowed intention to get the school converted into a purely Church of England school, and that had been the cause of a great deal of ill- feeling. Mr. T. J. Roberts said he was making certain of his facts by speaking of the school as he knew it, but it was the genera] opinion of Nonconformists in the town that a particular aspect of religion was taught in that school. The Commissioner asked Mr. Roberts whether he had ever claimed the advantages of the conscience clause. Mr. Roberts said he had not, nor had his parents, so far as he knew. The Commissioner said he did net think that the son of Nonconformist parents who had not claimed the protection of the conscience clause was entitled to say that he had grievances, be- cause lie was taught th* Church. Catechism. Mr. T. J. Roberts. On two occasions I was orced to go to church. Mr. T. P. Roberts: Well, that was a sin (laughter). The Mayor said the scheme was not well- known in the district, and that was the reason why the Governing Body should be entirely remodelled, so that each community in the dis- trict might be represented, and better arrange ments should be made for securing an equality amongst the boys of all denominations. Mr. Rouw said that if the Governing Body of the school were remodelled it would be sub- ject to the same treatment as the county school governing body, which was comprised almost entirely of one party. Mr. John Roberts: I am rather surprised at those remarks of Mr. Rouw, for he knows per- fectly well that only last Monday of all this Council unanimously re-elected a Liberal Unionist to represent them on the Governing Body of the Grammar School, and that the Chairman of those Governors is determined, so far as he possibly can, to prevent the elec- tion of any Liberal or Nonconformist on that body. The Commissioner said that political or religious considerations were irrelevant. Mr. John Roberts: I quite concur; but I think it is only right that you should know the whole of the facts. Alderman Edward Roberts said that the reports of the examiners of the Grammar School were never published, and he thought they should be. The ^Commissioner said he was making a rather minute examination of the educational work of the school, and was examining the reports pretty carefully. The proceedings closed with a vote of thanks to Mr. Bigge, who pointed out in reply that he was there to get information only, and he could in no way bind the Commissioners by any remark he had used.

INTERMEDIATE EDUCATION IN THE RUTHIN DISTRICT. CHARITY COMMISSIONERS INQUIRY. VERY soon after the Joint Education Com- mittee for Denbighshire commenced its duties, it was decided to have a Boys' and Girls' School at Ruthin, and a scheme was prepared which received the approval of the Charity Commisioners, and the Edu- cation Department, and presented to Parlia- ment including the present Grammar School as a school for boys. In the House of Lords tbisscbool wasthrownoutofthescheme by the Bishop of St. Asaph, and several other Tory Lords, with the intention of continuing it as a Church School, although it has lost that character through the action of the School Governors themselves-the Rev. the Warden of Ruthin being chairman of the board. Although the Grammar School was thrown out of the scheme, it provided for the estab- lishment of a Boys' as well as a Girls' school, and the County and Local Governing bo- dies have completed their arrangements to purchase a property called Brynhyfryd, which is in every sense very suitable for the purpose, at a valuation made by Messrs. Dew and Son, of Bangor, who the Commis- sioners appointed for the purpose. They have also made the necessary financial arrange- ments to cover the repairs and alteration of the premises, and the erection of two excel- lent schoolrooms. In fact, everything has been ready for about three months, awaiting the permission of the Commissioners to complete the purchase, and proceed with the work, a subscription list of about X400 to .£500 only being wanted-which would be guaranteed. On Friday afternoon, a special meeting of the County Governing Body for Denbigh- shire and the Local Governing Body for the Ruthin district under the Intermediate Education Scheme was held at the County Hall, Ruthin, for the purpose of meeting Mr. J. A. Selby-Bigge, the assistant commis- sioier sent down by the Charity Commis- sioners, to collect evidence as to the wishes of the district upon the question of inter- mediate education. The commissioners, in r-eply to the last application of the local governors said, inter alia, that the propo- sal to establish a County School for boys at Ruthin required, from various points of view, careful and. mature consideration, and that accordingly, before entertaining it further, they had decided to instruct an as- sistant commissioner to confer with the County Governing Body and the Local Go- vernors on the subject.' The chair was taken by Mr. Thomas Gee, the chairraan,"of the.County Governing Body, and the other members of the two authori- ties present were, the Hon. G. T. Kenyon, Dr. J. Medwyn Hughes, the Rev. the War- den of Ruthin, Mr. T. H. Roberts, Mr. John Edwards, Llanelidan, Mr. Henry Williams, the chairman of the Ruthin Board of Guard- ians, Mr. Thomas Parry, of Colwyn Bay, Mr. Edward Jones, Llanbedr farm, Mr. R. Har- ris Jones, Mr. J. Harrison Jones, Denbigh, the Rev. Issac James, Mrs. J. W. Lumley, Miss Gee, the Mayor of Ruthin, Mr. Ezra Roberts, Mrs. Davies of Abergele, and Mr. J. E. Powell, with Mr. John Roberts, clerk to the County Governing Body, and Mr. Edward Roberts, the clerk to the Ruthin Local Governors. Apologies for absence had been received from the following :—Mr. E. Hooson, Captain Griffith Boscawen, Mrs. Powell, Wrexham, and Mr. Peter Williams. At the request of the chairman, Mr. John Roberts read a letter from the Charity Commissioners, dated Dec. 23rd, 1896. of which the following is a copy :— Sir, Your letter on the 8th August, and 26th ult have been under the consideration of the com- missioners. The proposals submitted in those letters differ materially from those previously before the Commissioners, inasmuch as the former proposals contemplated a County School for Girls only at Ruthin, whereas the establishment of County Schools for Boys and Girls respectively at the place is now inten- ded. (2.) With regaid to the earlier proposals to purchase the premises known as Brynhyfryd for the purpose of the County School for Girls, I am to state that the Commissioners regard Mr. Lloyd Wiliams' report of the 18th April 1895. as sufficient evidence of the suitability of the premises so far as the site is concerned for the purpose of such a school. The report of Mr. W. D. Jones of the 22nd April 1893 (on the sanitary conditions and water supply) is less conclusively favourable, indicating some defects to be remedied, or requirements to be met before the sanitation and supply of water could be accepted by the commissioners as en- tirely and permanently satisfactory. With Mr. Dew's estimate of the value of the peemises before them, the Commissioners were in a position to deal with the question of the purchase desired alike by the School Governors and the County Governing Body. (3.) But the proposal to provide on this Bryn- hyfryd site a County School for Boys as weli as for Girls imparts into the question of the p- proval of its purchase different and important consideration. It at once reopens the question of the.suitability of the site, since what may be a g-ui site for a Girls school is not necessarily so fur a Bevs school, especially when it is in close r{.: ty to an existing Boys school The Scheme as approved by Her Maje t.«. ouncil contains indeed provisions unde. "Inch the establishment of a County School for Boys is permitted, but it is a matter for the careful consideration of the County Governing Body, whether in the event of their proceeding to provide a County School for Boys, the establishment of the school should not be preceeded by an amendment of the County Scheme on the ground that certain of the provisions of that scheme are inapplicable in the circumstances which have occurred since the scheme was first drafted (e.g. clause 5 (a), I (1) clause 9*1 and clause 94). I am to enquire for instance whether it is proposed to open a I Boys school, in which the Head Masters' stipend is to be fixed at £200 a year besides capitation payment, whether a tuition fee on a higher scale than that usual in the Denbighshire County Schools is proposed, and whether the intended boys school is to have an D pper and Lower Department. These are all requirements which must be observed by the County Governing Body and School Governors, if the school for boys is to be established forthwith. (4). With regard to the manner in which it is suggested that the necessary funds will be forthcoming for the aquisition of the premises (if approved) and for the provision of the re- quisite school buildings. I am to point out (1) that three full years' accumulations of the annual grant are not at the present date as is assumed in hand and available for meeting the cost of building on Brynhyfryd, and (2) that a serious deduction must be made from the total of £2,550 which the County Governing Body reckon on receiving from this source by reason of the payments for scholarships (15th of the annual 9850 and 940) required by clauses 51, 94 and 98 to be set aside or reserved for future application for that purpose. Further, it is not stated whether any amount has in fact been as yet provided by voluntary subscrip- tions or whether the £ 500 referred to in this connection has been guaranteed. I may remind you that in case the amount provided from this source must be shown to be sufficient to defray such part of the cost of the purchase, and of the erection of buildings as may be attri- butable to the provision of Boarding accommo- dations. In conclusion, I am to say that the Commis- sioners are of opinion that the proposal to es- tablish a County School for boys at Ruthin, requires from various points of view careful and mature consideration. Accordingly before entertaining it further they have instructed an Assistant Commissioner to visit Ruthin in the ensuing month of January and confer with the County Governing Body and the Local Govern- ors on the subject. I am sir, Your obedient Servant, G. HOLFORD. JOHN ROBERTS, Esq., 5 Castle Street, Ruthin. The Chairman said that they were met to discuss with the commissioner the question of the Ruthin County School; and the year, while they had spent in considering the question al. ready was a clear proof that they deemed it to, be a matter of the greatest importance. They had done all they could to secure the co-opera- tion of the governors of the Grammar School, but they had no chance whatever of doing so and the result of the work they did, and for which they had had the approval of the Charity Commissioners, was lost to chem at one stroke when the scheme was before the House of Lords and the present Grammar School was struck out of it. They, in consequence, pro- ceeded to make the necessary preparations for the establishment of an Intermediate Grammar School in the Ruthin district. They had se- cured an excellent site, and an excellent build- ing, and they had done so fat a valuation, which was made by Messrs. Dew, of Bangor, and practically the owner had agresd to take the valuation of the valuers appointed by the Charity Commissioners. The Charity Commis- sioners had approved of the plans, and the only thing wanted now was to get their approval of what had been done so that the local governors could proceed with the work. Mr. J. E. Powell asked the commissioner if it was the intention of the commissioners to consult the Rural District Council upon the matter ? Mr. Bigge said it had not been suggested to him before that day that he should do so but if there was a desire that the district council should be asked to meet him, he would report so to the commissioners. Mr. Henry Williams said he thought it would only be right that that should be done. Mr. Selby-Bigge said his instructions were that he should not hold a formal inquiry, but an inquiry that would take the form of a conferenee with the various bodies interested in the ques- tion. He had no power to commit the commis- sioners to anything, and his sole duty was to report. The main divisions of his inquiry would be first, as to the possibility' of setting up two schools in the district upon the funds at the command of the local governors, and se- condly the desirability of doing so, in view of the fact that there already existed a good boys' school in the district. As to the girls school, he might tell them that-the commissioners were with them, and such objections to the proposals of the local governors had been simply to the proposals from a business point of view, and in accordance with their usual practice. His first question was, was it possible to set up a boys school with the funds at their disposal? The Chairman: We are all of opinion that we can do so. The Commissioner Can you provide the ne- cessary salary for the head master ? Mr Powell said they could. There were other schools in the county with less money at their disposal which did so. The Commissioner said that in those cases there where not competing schools on the other side of the way. The Chairman said that the competing school would not affect them. They would secure scholars although the other school existed. The Commissioner went on to deal with the question of the building grant, andaskedwliether, if the Charity Commissioners allowed the use of the annual grant for maintenance for the first three or four years to be laid out on the building, the local governars could get the re- mainder of the money ? It was explained that the annual grant would have to be taken for four years, and that would only leave about five hundred pounds of a de- ficiency. The first three years were already passed, or nearly so and it would take a good part of the fourth to get the buildings altered and erected so as to allow of the school being commenced. It was also stated that Mr. Henry Tate had offered, upon certain conditions, a donation of flOO to the building fund. Mr. Edward Roberts, the clerk to the local governors, said he had the authority of Mr. Thomas Gee, the chairman's son, the son-in- law of Mr. Tate, to state that the offer would be entertained, if renewed. In view of the present proceedings, he had not yet renewed the offer; but would of course do so, at the pro- per time. The Commissioner said that in view of the fact that the new boys' school would compete with the grammar school they would find some difficulty in getting subscriptions. He ought to have some guarantee that the money to make up the difference would be forthcoming, and that if the school was actuaUy started it would be maintained on the annual grant provided. The Chairman We, Nonconformists; build chapels in the country districts which cost from £ 7C0 to f800 each. When we want the money for some purpose that will be in accord with our aspirations we always get it The defici- ency is only five hundred pounds, and we have a district of 12,000 inhabitants to fall back upon, and there are many Nonconformist chapels in the district. The Commissioner: I do not think that build- ing a school will meet with the same kind of support that you would get for a chapel. The Chairman; It will meet with the great- est sympathy. Mr. Powell: What are the sacrifices that have been made in Wales already 0n this mat- ter? The Commissioner: I have been very much impressed, as far as I have been in Wales, with tie sacrifices that have been made upon the matter of education. I must tell you thst, (hear, hear). Mr. Powell: It must be remembered that Ruthin is the centre point. There are other parishes besides this one. Dr. J. Medwyn Hughes: There are sixteen parishes in addition. Mr. Powell: The opinion of the District Council ought to weigh at least three times as much as that of the Corporation of Ruthin. The Commissioner (to Mr. Henry Williams) I hope you will not consider that any slight has been intended in not consulting the District I Council. 1 will report as to the desirability of I doing SQ. i i Mr. Henry Williams said he thought it would be desirable that the District Council should be consulted but he did not think that any slight had been intended. On the question of the purchase of Brynhyf- ryd, The Commissioner said that the rent that would have been v arged if the place had been rented was dE80 a year, and the valuation was £2,740. From this they had to deduct the value of the land which would not have been included with the part to be rented originally, and when fair value for that was allowed the pur- chase price still came to more than thirty years purchase, and he did not think it worth more than thirty years purchase. [It may be stated here that the property pur- chased is far more than what was intended to be rented. Amongst others, there is a house and garden which rent for £ 12.—ED.] The Warden said that since the Brynhyfryd property was considered by them, two other places had come into the market. The house of Dr. William Jones was on sale, and the death of Mr. R. Alston had caused Plas Newydd to come into the market also. These places ought-, to be considered by them before they absolutely decided. The Chairman said that Brynhyfryd was a far superior place to either. Besides, they had no need now to reopen that question. The Local and the County Governing Body had dealt with it, and they had settled it,; and they were now only awaiting the approval of the Charity Commissioners to complete the purchase and commence the work. After the work they had gone through it was childish to ask them to re- linquish their position. The Warden Why childish, if a better place can be found ? The Chairman There is no better place. The Warden You have not seen Dr. Jones house. The Mayor said they ought first of all to de- cide whether they were going to have the two schools, or only the girls' school. They fhight find property that would be applicable for one school that would not be suitable for the two schools. The Commissioner said he must distinctly state that the Charity Commissioners were not bound to approve of the site selected by the local body, nor was the County Governing Body. The Commissioners reserved their liberty on the matter, although they were quite aware of the inconvenience of disturbing the arrangements which had been made, and that would be taken duly into consideration. Mr. Henry Williams said there was no com- parison between the several localities. The question was asked whether there was land in connection with the two places which had been mentioned. The Warden said there were two acres be longing to Dr. Jones' house. The Chairman said that it seemed quite out of place to raise these objections now. If the commissioners had any objections they ought to have raised them when the negotiations were being carried out. Instead of that,; they ap- proved of what was done, and he f(-ft himself quite unwilling to allow the commissioners- The Commissioner said the position had been entirely altered by the omission of the Gram mar School from the scheme, and the decision of the local body to erect a new boys' school on the other side of the way. He could not discuss his instructions, and his instructions were clearly indicated by the particular points on which he was directed to ask for "informa- tion. On the question of maintenance, for in. stance,that was vitally affected by the fact of the school being in existence already, close at hand. Could they depend upon the fees originally an- ticipated with a rival school over the way ? The Chairman said that the fees would not be affected, and that they still expected to get the full number which they had estimated. They expected that both schools would succeed, with their grant of CS50 a year, notwithstanding the grammar school on the other side of the road. The Commissioner said that the number of pupils anticipated under the old scheme was from 120 to 150 Now he had been told they might expect 50 or 60. Dr. Hughes Now we expect 120. The Commissioner In spite of the Grammar School over the way ? Dr. Hughes Certainly. Mr. Thomas Parry said that the school at Abergele was already too small by half within twelve months f.-om the day on which it was opened. The Commissioner said he was aware of the success of that school. The Warden said that the attempt to estab- lish the two schools was a very inadequate one. They had estimated to the extent of their means and they seemed to have left out the require- ment of a house for the head master. Instead of £ 5,000 they would need £ 10,000 to set up the two schools according to modern require- ments. The Mayor said that the Warden seemed to forget that they had a house already for the head master. The sum named in the estimates was for the school, and it was understood that Brynhyfryd itself would be the residence of the head master. The Commissioner having again expressed a doubt as to the ability of the governors to main- tain a first grade boys' school in the district, Mr. Powell said he thought there would be no difficulty at all. The girls' school was net to be a first grade one. The Mayor said that there was not to be boarding accommodation at the girls' school, but only at the boys' school The Commissioner said that was a new point. It had at first been intended to have boarding accommodation for girls. The Mayor said that was abandoned for the present when it was decided to erect a boys' school. The Commissioner then asked the meeting to point out the advantages which they expected to get out of the new school which they had not already got at the Grammar School; or in other words, were there any complaints against the administration of that school with the noble endowments it had ? The Warden said that if his Nonconformist friends had any complaints to make he should be glad to hear them, and he hoped to answer their objection. That was a challenge. Mr. Powell said there was one very serious objection to leaving the district without a school under the Welsh Act. The scholarships which had to be given in the County Schools, to the extent of one-fifteenth of the annual income, would be out of the question at the existing school. He thought the district, must realize that once for all. If the existing Grammar School were adopted by the district, they would have to forfeit that sum, which would amount to £ 210. He did not think che district did realize that. Mr. Henry Williams said that the question by the commissioner was a very unpleasant one to reply to. The Chairman asked what was the status of the Grammar School. Was it a Church School? The Commissioner said he was not there ex- actly to answer questions, and he did not think he was competent to answer that one without committing the commissioners. He had no power to do that. If he were describing the school to anybody, he would call it a Church School with a Conscience Clause. The Chairman: Was it legally capable of being included under the scheme? The Commissioner: Certainly, or it would not have been included. The Chairman We want a school in Ruthin which will be under the control of persons elected by the locality—a school which would have no denominational character and until we git it we will fight for it (hear, hear). We are not going to submit to be under the control of any body of men i 1 connection with a Church School, particularly in these times, when the Church is drifting as fast as it can iuto Roman Catholicism. The Warden I will call you to order, Mrl Chairman. The Chairman We are a nation of Protes- tants, and thorough Protestants; and we are sorry to see the Church of England is drifting so rapidly to the other side; and this is one reason why we are not willing to give up our claim to a school under the Intermediate Education Act for Ruthin (hear, hear). Mr. Powell said they objected to the proceed-