The Carmarthen Journal and South Wales Weekly Advertiser

THE REPRESENTATION OF THE CARMARTHEN BOROUGHS. CONFERENCE AT CARMARTHEN. STILL AT LOGGERHEADS. On Saturday afternoon a conference between members of the Llanelly Liberal Executive and members of the Carmarthen Liberal Committee was held at the Assembly-rooms, Carmarthen. The meeting was the outcome of a resolution inviting Carmarthen to a conference on the differences which divide the boroughs on the choice of a Liberal candidate passed at the secret meeting of the Llanelly executive on the previous Saturday. The mayor of Carmarthen (Mr T. Jenkins) was voted to the chair. The Mayor said be was glad to see the Llanelly friends there, and he hoped they met in a con- ciliatory spirit, and that the proceedings would be productive of much good. Ho should be pleased to hear what the Llanelly friends had to say. After a considerable pause Dr. J. A. Jones (Llanelly) said, as one of those who at Llanelly suggested that conference, he might say they had come down in order to ascer- tain from the Carmarthen friends why the arrange- ment arrived at when they were t,here befo.-e was not carried out. Three months ago they had a jolly and jovial and very unanimous meeting, and after that the Carmarthen friends were kind enough to come to Llanelly, and they had quite as unanimous a meeting there. In those two meet- ings a course of action was agreed upon in case more than one candidate came forward, and his (Dr. Jones a) idea in suggesting that conference was to know why Carmarthen had not taken the necessary steps so that the matter might be brought to an end and settled once and for all. The Rev. D. J. Thouiai-Wliat was the nature of the arrangement ? Dr. Jones- That whoever should have the majority of votes in both boroughs should be the selected candidate. The Rev. D. J. Thomas—Was that so ? Dr. Jones—Yes. That was a suggestion I made in the adjoining room here. It was agreed to without a dissentient voice. I told the Llanelly Three Hundred, and they, in the presence of some friends from Carmarthen, heartily endorsed it. The Rev. D. J. Thomas—Was there anything sa.d about a test poll on the lines afterwards adopted by you, without consulting us? Dr. Jones- Each town was to take its own course to find out. The Rev D. J. Thomas— That is what we are fighting about. We want to do it in our own way, without being dictated to by Llanelly, Mr Thomas Davies, or Major Jones. Dr. Jones-Does Mr Thomas mean to say that Llanelly dictates? The Rev. D. J. Thoma.s-That is the impression. Dr. Jones—Is it so? The Rev. D. J. Thomas-Certainly that is my opinion. The Rev. Professor D. E. Jones asked that the secretary should read the resolution passed by the Llanelly Three Hundred in reply to the Carmar- then resolution. Mr D. P. Morgan first read the following reso- lution passed by the Carmarthen executive on Monday, November 30 :—" That a poll be held at an early date, to be open to all persons on the Parliamentary register for Carmarthen who declare themselves to be Gladstonian Liberals, provided both candidates consent to be bound by the gross result of such poll and the poll taken at Llanelly." To that the reply of the Llanelly Three Hundred was the following resolution passed at the meeting in that town on December 2:l That this meeting regrets that the plan which is proposed by Carmar- then is not in keeping with the understinding that had previoudy been mutually agreed to at a meeting by the representatives of the party in both towns, as it does not provide against Tories and Liberal Unionists voting upon a question which concerns only Gladstonian Liberals; and that we urge upon Carmarthen Liberals that a poll should be taken without delay upon a list of Gladstonian Liberals and Irish Home Rulers, and those only, previously agreed upon, and the list signed by one or more of the nominees and supporters named by each candidate, with the further right of challenge at the polling-booths to the scrutiny committee should any Tories and Unionists escape the first scrutiny." That, Mr Morgan remarked, was the reply of Llanelly to the first resolution of the Car- marthen committee. Perhaps Dr. Jones would let them know if these restrictions were placed on the Llanelly executive before they scrutinised the list. Dr. Jones-No. Yes, they were. There was a distinct understanding that Gladstonian Liberals and Home Rulers only should be allowed to vote. When I declared the poll at Llanelly a Mr William Davies, of Carmarthen, told me, amongst others, that you were going to poll 950 votes in Carmarthen, and Mr Rixon Morgan told me you would poll 1,000. The only thing we want, and wanted all along, is that Carmarthen should be as straight in this matter in keeping Unionists and Tories out of the poll all we were. We have not dictated to Carmarthen in any way. We want to get from Carmarthen the figures to see who is the adopted candidate. That is all we have contended for and all we are entitled to. for and all we are entitled to. Professor Jones-Did Mr Lewis Morris appoint scrutineers? Dr Jones—Whether he did or not, there were a good many there-50 at least. Professor Jones—Did he nominate anyone Dr Jones-I cannot tell you. Professor Joues-That is the condition we obiect to. J Dr Jones— Why did you not take the poll before? Professor Jones-It was not convenient to have it on a Saturday. Mr W. Powell (weaver) asked whether Dr Jones was correctly reported when he was alleged to have said, on the declaration of the Llanelly poll, that it was impossible for Carmarthen to poll more than 600 and impossible for them to reverse the decision of Llanelly. They bad not dictated to Llanelly, and Llanelly bad no right to dictate to Carmarthen. He heard Mr D. P. Morgan tell Mr Gwilym Evans at Capel Zion that it was impos- sible to take a poll at Carmarthen on a Saturday, and Mr Morgan asked Mr Evans to try and influence Llanelly to defer the poll till another day. As Llanelly had notice of the incon- venience of Saturday to Carmarthen, they should not have dictated the day or the numbers. All the supporters of. Mr Lewis Morris on the Carmarthen executive had always been Home Rulers, aud that was more than could be said of many (laughter). Dr Jones said the first they heard of the numbers at Carmarthen was what Mr Davies, who repre- sented Mr Morris, told them at the declaration of the poll. They at Llanelly had always felt that Carmarthen had not 950 Liberals. The Mayor and Others-How do you know? Dr Jones-l should like you to give us your calculations to show that you have. The Rev D.J. Thomas-You have no right to ask for them. Dr Jones-I challenge you. Mr Powell—Did we challenge; you P (Cries of Chair, chair.") Dr Jones-No. I challenge the Liberals at Carmarthen to bring figures showing that there are 950 Gladstonian Liberals at Carmarthen. Mr Tom Hughes (Llanelly), in a long speech, deprecated the fact that the discussion had taken an unfriendly turn. They were there to try and heal the unfortunate breach between Carmarthen and Llanelly. That was the only desire Llanelly hal in arranging for the conference, and it would have been better if it had taken place at an earlier stage in the controversy. Unfortunate remarks were made in the heat of the moment which the speakers would not use after due consideration. It had been said that no restrictions had been placed on the Llanelly executive, but the fact was a great amount of care had been bestowed on the preparation of the list. At every ward meeting there were representatives of both candidates, and before objections could be sustained to any name proof had to be given that. the voter was a Tory or Unionist. If Llanelly had worded its resolutions so as to give offence to the Carmarthen* friends that was very far from their intention. They felt that Major Jones had a very strong following Amongst the Llanelly Liberal electorate, which was composed almost exclusively of working men, and, in order to get the working men to abide by the result of the poll, they wanted to be able to 811Y that it had been taken on perfectly fair lines in both towns. They did not doubt that the geDtlemen who had the matter in hand at Carmar- then would behave honourably. If any reflection had been made it was not intended, and there was no justification for it. Llanelly had imposed those restrictions upon itself, and they only asked Car- marthen to do the same. If the poll was not taken on strictly fair lines then, in view of the possibility staring them in the face of Sir John Jones Jenkins coming out, the working men of Llanelly might turn round and say, It is not a fair poll. We won't be bound by it. We will either abstain from voiiuir or vote for Sir John Jones Jenkins. H* has been our member before, and <>niy differs from us ;ri one point." Llan. lly wanted to preserve ti't* unity of the party. Ifthey had a three-cornered fighi it might result, possibly, in the return of Major Jones—(dissent),—but, admitting that supposi- tion, Llanelly would not care about the question- able satisfaction of returning Major Jones not as the selected of the majority of the Liberals in both boronghs. They would have other fights aflei this, and if they fought in separate camps now, how could they hope for unity in the future ? The Rev J Wyndhatn Lewis thought they were laying too much stress on technicalities. The ideal of that conference was a good one. They were told that Tories were more united than Liberals, but the unity and peace of the Tories were founded on implicit ignorance, and they were told that all colours agreed in the dark (laughter, and Mr Alewyn Evans: "That is not to the point"). He was coming to the point. (Voice: "Come on, then; you are very long about it"). He thought there was only one way of getting out of the difficulty-either of taking a poll at Carmarthen and a fresh poll at Llanelly, or referring the whole matter to arbitration; Mr D. P. Morgan-Did we impose any restric- tions upon Llanelly ? We did not. We regarded them as honourable men, and allowed them to take the poll as they thought best. When our turn came, we asked if we were regarded as honourable men, and were told "No." (00 Ob, oh," cries of "Order" and interruption). What I say is true. I can prove it (More interruption. Cries of "Order"). Can you show me a document stating that we agreed to take a poll ? You cannot do it. We were not asked if we were agreeable to take a poll. The only thing we received was a letter from D. R. Williams, dated November 23, in which he says:—"The council of our association met last Wednesday evening and decided to take a poll of the Liberal electors of the town on Saturday next, and recommended that we suggest to the Carmar- then Liberals to take a poll on the same day, for the final selection of a candidate from the two gentlemen now before the Liberal electors in each town. We shall be glad to hear from you hereon." If you really regarded us (continued Mr Morgan) as men unworthy of exercising our opinion as to the manner of taking a poll, would it not, as a matter of etiquette, have been the proper thing to ask us if we were agreeable to take a poll ? The conclusion come to when we were at Lianelly was to hold meetings in both towns, and the vote there should decide. The poll was an after-thought, agreed upon after the deputation had left Carmar- then. Mr Hughes says all you ask is that we take a poll here on the same lines as Llanelly. I would ask him if the register was signed at Llanelly on behalf of Mr Lewis Morris? Mr D. R. Williams—Mr R. L. Sails, a supporter of Mr Morris, signed it in one ward. Mr D P Morgan—Was there a resolution paesed that that should be done? If so, will you read it? Mr Tom Hughes-We appointed supporters of Mr Morris as chairmen of the ward meetings. They signed the list. It was not necessary that the candidates should sign the list. The Mayor—Major Jones replied to us that be would not be bound by the gross result of the polls unless our list was signed by Mr Thomas Davies, of Carmarthen. Mr D P Morgan-I prefer to take it on the materials supplied by the Llanelly friends. Were the persons who signed this list named by Mr Morris, or was he even asked to name those gentle- men? [Mr Morgan here paused for an answer, but none was given.] Let us be candid, and see whether you or we are to blame. Mr Tom Hughes-Mr Morgan is straining at a gnat. Llanelly took the initiative. We were influenced by the report that at your public meeting Conservatives were allowed to speak and vote (Oh, oh). Mr Alcwyn Evans—That speech reported in the Cardiff papers was merely an exclamation of six or seven words by one man, who was at once turned out. Mr Tom Hughes-That explanation has not appeared in the papers, and we heard that Conser- vatives and Unionists in Carmarthen were deter- mined to vote for Mr Lewis Morris. Hence our anxiety. Mr Lewis Daniel declared that Llanelly bad dictated to them from beginning to end. They had even given them a certain date on which they must hold their poll at Carmarthen. Dr Jones—No, no. The Mayor-Yes, you did. Dr Jones We never told you a certain date on wnich you must do it. We told you if you did not take a poll by a certain date we would do a certain thing. The Mayor—That is a distinction without a difference. Mr W Powell-It means the same thing. The Mayor-We may go on talking about what has taken place till this day week. Have the Llanelly friends any practical suggestion to make as to the future ? Mr W Samuel was glad to hear the chairman's remark, & agreed with a previous speaker that they were dwelling too much on technicalities. At the last election in the borougha the combined Liberal strength was 2,120. At the test poll at Llanelly 1,700 voted, besides which a large number did not vote, say 100 were absent. Leaving the 100 out of account, there remained 420 as the contingent. Professor Jones—From Carmarthen ? The Mayor—You are taking the same lines as the others. Mr Maybery—What is the point ? Professor Jones-They ought to bring 600 more to the poll there and deduct the minus 200 from us (laughter). Mr Samuel said the position was different at Llanelly. They had a strong democratic electo- rate, and the choice was theirs. Major Jones bad not been selected by the voice of the few as in times past. The democracy had chosen him, and he did not think it right to ask them to give him up. Mr Wm. Thomas (Llanelly)—Never, (laughter and applause). Mr Samuel (continuing)—On tbe other hand, we have no right to ask you to give up Mr Morris. The only alternative that appears to me i- that the two gentlemen should talk the matter over with themselves, with the assistance of those at head- quarters, and decide which should retire. In strictness, your candidate is bound to retire. He pledged himself to be bound by the voice of the association. You have no association. Mr W. Isaac—Then we have no voice in the matter at all. Mr Samuel—Certainly not, strictly. However, 1 suggest that it be left to be decided by the candi- dates themselves, in consultation with Mr Schnad- horst, Mr Morley, and the Liberal Whips. Mr Lewis Daniel asked if it were true, as reported in the papers, that at the Llanelly secret meeting on Saturday night they pledged them- selves to support Major Jones, come what may? If that was the case Carmarthen must give up Mr Morris and take up Major Jones. After a pause, the Mayor asked-Will any Llanelly friend answer that question ? Mr Tom Hughes-After the decision at the council meeting it was unnecessary. Mr D R Williams—We had no right to do any- thing without consulting the Three Hundred. The Rev D J Thomas-Is it true, yes or no, that yon passed such a resolution? Mr D R WiIliams-Ob, we agreed to come here Mr Alcwyn Evans-Did not Major Jones say it was useless sending the first part of the resolution to Carmarthen which pledged you to him ? The Rev D J Thomas—It is a farce. Mr D R Williamr,-Major Jones was not there last Saturday. Mr W. Powell-The gentleman who moved the resolntion is in the room. Let him speak out. Mr Tom Hughes had just given him a hint that such a resolution was proposed. Mr Tom Hughes said such a resolution was suggested, but the executive had no power to pass it. The Mayor-The question is, not what you had the right to do, but whether you did pass it. Mr Tom Hughes-No, not so far as my recollec- tion goes. We had no right to upset the decision of the Three Hundred, which had adopted Major J onos-- The Mayor—We are wasting a lot of time. Mr Tom Hughes-It was not passed to my knowledge. Mr D. R. Williams-There was a resolution to that effect drawn out, but it was withdrawn, and the one that we should come here was the only one passed. Mr W. Powell-Did not Major Jones advise you not to send the first resolution after it was passed ? Mr Tom Hughes—Practically, no. The Mayor-It was not passed ? Mr T. Hughes-No; we had no power to pass it. Mr W. Rees (Llanelly) asked Mr Jeremiah Williams whether be did not propose a resolution on Saturday night the first part of which was that they stick to Mijor Jones, and the second that they visit Carmarthen and try to draw the com- mittee there to some arrangement. Did not Major Jones say it was no use passing such a resolution, aud was it not then cut if two, thw latter part being sent to Carmarthen and the first par kppt back r Afw-r a pause Mr Jeremiah Williams said h- j would answer that again. Mr D. R. Williams—We had no power to pass it. The Mayir-You are g -incr i-ito the p again. The R-v. D. J. must have a clear understanding. If the executive did tbi-—if not in lid many wdrds-if they cnne to an undi'rstand- ing to support Major Jones through thick and thin, then we have no common ground of MrT. HugLe-That resolution came lii,, but several said we had no right to pass it, as the association was agreed. What was on the mind of the proposer was to guard the executive fri m going away from the association. They were there as representatives of the united boroughs, and he hoped they would regard the man who made public private discussions—that was a specimen of truth (interruption; cries of "Chair, 'Order," "Sit down," during which Mr Hughes's friends constrained him to resume his seat). Mr Lewis Daniel protested that Mr Hughes's remarks were most unfair. A few minutes ago Mr Hughes told him that Major Jones told them not to pass that resolution. Mr Powell-.Ilr Jeremiah Williams proposed this resolution, and then proposed that they come and make friends with us. I suppose you, Dr. Jones, would make friends with us—(Dr. Jones—I don't know)—if we accepted Major Jones. (Laughter). Mr D. P. Mergan—Let the dead past bury its dead. Have the Llanelly friends any suggestion ? Mr Henry Wilkins appealed for unity and for consideration of the question from the one stand- point of which would be the best candidate to oppose Sir John Jones Jenkins. Professor Jones said Llanelly would gain nothing by the Carmarthen executive going with them. If they did so the Liberals of Carmarthen would go against them all. The fact that Major Jones was at the meeting last Saturday night irritated the Liberals of Carmarthen. As to a fresh poll or arbitration, he was afraid, from the tone of the Lianelly friends, that Mr Lewis Morris would not be accepted by them if the poll or the arbitrators were in his favour; and, on the other hand, Car- marthen Liberals might take umbrage at Major Jones for the way in which he had treated them. He (Professor Jones) was prepared to give up both candidates and go in for another. Dr Jones—Major Jones is accepted as the candi- (late at Llanelly, and I have yet to learn that we may not invite our accepted candidate to our consultattons. We have no objection to your con- sulting Mr Morris or anythone you like. Mr Lewis Daniel— Is it, or is it not, possible that the Three Hundred will give up Major Jones? Mr David Thomas (Llanelly) (emphatically)— Impossible (Laughter). Air Lewis Daniel—What is the use of this meeting ? Dr Joneg-%N'e ire willing to ask tlietii. The Maycr-AQk both to retire. You are deter- mined to have Major Jones, and we are determined to have Mr Lewis Morris The only way out of th difficultv is to clear both out of the way and choose another. MrW. S,tii-.iel-We cannot ask the electors to forego their right. We might ask the candidates to confer with Mr Scbnadhorst. The Mayor—Why Mr Schnadhorst? Mr D. P. Morgan—It is very suggestive that Mr Schnadhorst is referred to all along (Order). The Rev. D. J. Thomas thought they might as well face the position. Carmarthen and Llanelly were so thoroughly committed to their separate candidates that the only way to secure the unity of the party was for both to retire. Mr Daniel Thomas—We in Llanelly are for Major Jones, and as to withdrawing him, that is impossible (Laughter). We are the same as you in Carmarthen, we won't give in for arbitration or anything else. The Rev. D. J. Thomas—Then why did you come here to-day ? Mr D. P. Morgan assured the meeting that the supporters of Mr Lewis Morris were not wavering in the least. They were as firm as a rock that day-(applause)-and if they accepted Professor Jones's suggestion, of which the mayor approved, it would be simply out of respect to those gentle- men. Mr Daniel Thomas had been plain and candid. He (Mr Morgan) would be equally so. Carmarthen would not have Major Jones on any consideration, aud if the major wanted to preserve the unity of the party, and could subordinate his ambition to his Liberalism, he bad better go to some of the other seats which had been offered him. Mr Tom Hughes-Llanelly is determined to stick to Major Jones, and judging by the tone of this meeting, we shall go back as wise as we came. We have as much tenacity there as you have here (applause). If Mr Morris was selected we should be in a difficulty in overcoming the objections felt against him at Llanelly because of the unfair reflections he had made npon the electorate at Llanelly. At this btage of the proceedings the growing signs of restlessness culminated in a movement towards the door on the part of some of those present. The Mayor, however, called for the door to be closed, and remarked that there was one important point which had been overlooked. Llanelly had chosen the last two candidates who were returned and both had turned their coats. Why should they not give Carmarthen a chance ? Llanellv chose Sir John Jones Jenkins, and he threw them over Dr Jones—No, no. The Mayor (contin iing)-Llanelly chose Sit- Arthur Stepney, and he has thrown you over Dr Jones-No. The Mayor—We have had no choice for 23 years. Mr Warren was our choice the last time, and he had to give way- Dr Jones—No. The Mayor—If you persist in choosing Major Jones I will venture to say- Mr Alcwyn Evan-Better say nothing. The Mayor-I will not. The memb rs of the conference, who had for some time been standing upon the order of their going, here passed a vote of thanks to the mayor, and th-n separated into small groups in the room and the vestibule, and renewed the discussion with more or less noise and vehemence, aud with equally conclusive results to those achieved in the general meeting.

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REVIEW OF THE BRITISH CORN TRADE. The cool and drying winds of the past ten days have been extremely beneficial to grain in stack. Deliveries are already showing improvement in condition, and farmers have little to complain of with respect to the season since we entered on the new year. There has been a considerable snowfall in the north and north-west, but only a casual sprinkle in the south-east and south. English wheat has been dull, and out of 56 leading markets 49 have been more or less in buyers' favour. Demand is inert, and the effect of the heavy reserves held by many of our leading millers is even more depressing than that of the colossal stocks in some of the port warehouses. Enquiry is bound to revive sooner or later, but a truism of this character is very little consolation to impatient holders. The increased supply from farmers is stil much smaller than at this time last year, and it is estimated that up to now only 2,S93,7GS qr., of English wheat 1891 crop have been sold, against 3,4S3,551 qrs in the same period of last cereal year. But for an enormous importation of foreign wheat in the twenty weeks, tbtie would have been a strong feeling by now upon all the agri- cultural markets. Foreign wheat is reckoned to have fallen since December 1st pretty continuously, and the tetal amount of the decline is stated at 4s on Californian, 2s on American red winter, and 3s on Indian wheat. The English visible supply of foreign wheat on January 15th was 6,223,000 qrs against 4,043,000 qrs two years ago. This excess is at the root of the present depression, and until there arises a sufficient enquiry to move some part of the sur- plus two millions, a series of dull markets appears inevitable. Continential demand is now being watched with much anxiety, and it is a hopeful sign that out of 382,000 qrs of wheat shipped from America last week 251,000 qrs were for the Continent. Another feature of tha week's trade which is distinctly helpful to holders is the drop in Indian wheat exports from 115,000 to 46.000 qrs. A third occurrence is the complete elimination of Russia and Roumania from our souroes of supply. As we writa there is not a single sack of Russian or Roumanian wheat on passage to the 11 United Kingdom, an event without precedent since 1855. The surplus of wheat for exports from Australia proves smaller than expectation, while the Argentine surplus is larger than usual These items of the week's intelligence about neutralise each other. It is, of course, to be regretted that it is !he British coIony wberefrom a reduced yield is reported In India the wheat area is about the same as last year for an increase in the Punjab, Berar, and the North-West is balanced by a decrease in Bow bay and Central India. The London market on the week shows Is decline on all sorts of foreign wheat, while American Hour is aLw Is lowt-r. Spring Patents on Friday were sold for 30s 01 landed, first Baker's 2Ss 6J landed, Pittsburg's Straights 29s landed, and Wa?hbuvn Sup^rlntives 328 landed. These are pri"e, which press hnrd on the home flour trade, whu-h has receded 3,j on the week for the top price, and on ET1 i lay accepted 31s 6d for London households, 31s for Norfolk, and 32a for Californion flour.-Mark Lane Express.

MARKETS. PROVISIONS. MOXMOUTH, Saturday. There was a full attendance at our market to-day, despite a piercingly cold wind Poultry, eggs, and butter were scarce. Quotations were as follows :— Fresh butter, Is 5d to Is Od per lb. Hens eggs, 10 for Is. Dressed poultry—Fowls, 3s 6d to 4s 6d per cpl. ducks, d per Ib -eese, 9d per lb; turkeys, lid to Is per lb. Butcher's meat— (prime joints)-Beef, from 6d to 9d per Ib mutton 2 from 7d to 9d per lb and pork, from öd to 9d per lb. HAVERFORDWEST, Saturday.—Barley, 3s Gd to 4s per bushel. Butchers' Meat—Beef, 6d to 9d per lb mutton, (id to 8d per Ib veal, 6d to 7d per lb Pork, 5d to 7d. Fresh butter, Is 3d to Is od per lb. Fowls, 4s 6d to 5s per cpl ducks, 4s 6J to 55 Gd per cpl. geese, 4s Gd to 6s each. Eggs 12 for Is. BuTTEt. CMKMARTHEN, Saturday.-At our market to. day there were only a few tubs of butter on offer, which sold at from Is 2d to Is 3d per Ib accord- ing to (juality. Cheese, from 23s to 24s 6d per 11 cwt. CORK, Saturday. —Ordinary Seconds, 124s Thirds, 107s Fourths,78s Mild Cured Firkins Fine, 137s Mild, 125s. Kegs Mild, 123s. Number in market, 61 firkins and 6 mild. POTATOES. Losi)o-N, Saturday.—There were fair supplies and moderate demand. The following were the quotations :—Hebrons and elephmts, 70s to 905 iniperators, 553 to 80s magnum bonumns, 60s to 80s per ton.

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