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CARMARTHENSHIRE FARMERS' CLUB. PROPOSED TESTIMONIAL TO THE SECRETARY. The quarterly meeting of the Carmarthenshire Farmers' Club was held at the Boar's Head Hotel, Carmarthen, on Tuesday last, when the following were present:—Mr A W J Stokes, Ystradwrallt, presiding Mr D H Thomas, Derllys Court; Mr W W Prosser, Alltyferin Mr Frank Gwyn, Plas Cwrt Hir; Mr Morris, Foelewan; Mr J Morris, Trefynis Mr John Evans, Cwmduhen Mr W Jones Rotten pUt Mr T W A Evans, Kidwelly Mr D Prosser, Brynderwen Mr W Davies, Penlan Mr Thomas, Cilarddu Mr Henry Davies, Trevoris-fawr Mr D H Thomas, junr., Derllwys Court Rev. R Gwynne Lawrence, Middleton Hall Rev S Jones, Llan- gunnor Mr John Thomas, Penlan; Mr H Davies, Typicca Mr Thomas, Carregwen Mr Henry Jones Davies, Bremenda Mr Ress, Llwyn- fortune Mr Jonathan Phillips, Ysgyborstone Mr John Jones, Cwmbuny; Ferry-side; Mr H D Williams, Tynycoed; Mr J William?, Penlan Mr D Hinds, Tyllwyd MrDavid Davies, Cwmmubach; Mr John Lloyd, Penybank; MrJohn Davies, Cincoed; Mr Edward Francis, Penygraig Mr Jeremy, Cwmdu Mr D E Stephens, Trawsmawr; Mr D Davies, Waundrefi Mr B Davies, Ulgaden Mr W H Jones, Danyrallt; Mr John Thomas, Llan- llwab Mr John Marks, Gellygeiros Mr Stephens, Cwm Mr David Hinds, Cwnin Mr Lewis Bishop, Llandilc Mr J^nes, Pencnwc Mr J H Thomas, Starling Park Mr Lewis, Cillefwr Mr Henry Harries, Ffosmaen Mr Griffiths, Llwynpiod; Mr T R Jones, Lletycaru Mr John P Davies, Tygwyn Mr George Thomas, Llechdwni Mr David Jones, Cwnibari Mr Thomas Jones, Penlanvoss Mr E Harries, Rhiwlwyd; Mr J L Thomas, Danlan Mr W Evans, Llwynfilltir Mr E J Williams, Pont Richard Einon Mr H Thomas, Bremendaissa; Mr T Davies, Castle Howell; Mr J Phillips Caerlleon Mr Samuel Rees, Penlan; Mr W C Bowen, Wern- mackyvith Mr John Thomas. Taleg Mr Walter Rock, Trimsaran Mr R A Brockie, Bank Mr John Francis, auctioneer; Mr Phillips, M.R.C.V.S.; Mr Rowland Browne, Carmarthen Mr H F Prit- chard, National Provincial Bank Mr H Cadle, Carmarthen Mr James Phillips, London House; Carmarthen Mr C Jones, Waterloo Mr D T Lloyd, Nott-square Mr J Jones, Priory Foundry Mr Vincent Thomas, Starling Park Mr David Griffiths, Compton House Mr W Thomas, iron- monger, Carmarthen Mr Williams, chemist, Car- marthen, Mr Walter Lloyd, auctioneer; Mr J Davies, saddler, Mr James Brigstocke, Carmarthen, Mr W Lloyd, chemist, Carmarthen Mr J Lewis, Commerce House Mr Lewis Rees, vetinary sur- geon Mr W Isaac, Old Foundry; Mr James Davies; Towy Works Mr Carpenter, Carmarthen Mr D Jones, Market Hall Mr E Thomas, Woodbine and Mr Daniel Jones, contractor. The usual spread catered for by the Hostess Olive was partaken of, and when the cloth was removed. Mr Walter E Lloyd, auctioneer, &c., of Close, Mydrim, read the following paper on THE AGRICULTURAL HOLDINGS (ENGLAND) ACT, 1883. This Act differs from the Act of 1875 in two important particulars: Firstly, it is compulsory, and applies to all agricultural or pastoral tenancies; secondly, compensation is to be paid not according to the outlay made by the out gaing tenant, but according to the value of the improvement to the landlord or incoming tenant at the time com- pensation is claimed. Thus a legal principle is established in regard to tenants' improvements which is applicable to the whole of England and Wales. The Act appears to have wrought hardly any change in the management of estates so far as I can learn, and this is probably due to the fact that by arrangement between landlord and tenant, substituted compensation can always, when desired, be agreed upon, and where there is an established custom in regard to compensation there need be no change in the existing agreements, with the excep- tion ef inserting an express provision that the com- pensation provided by such custom is to be deemed substituted compensation under the Act, and also incorporating in the written lease or agreement a schedule of improvements and the basis of compen- sation, and this I believe is what most landlords, acting upon the advice of their agents, have done. The Act is divided into three heads: (1) Compensa- tion for tenants' improvements; (2) distress; (3) fixtures. The first of these is by far the most im- portant, & to this I shall chiefly confine my remarks, adding just a word to fixtures. First then as to tenants' improvements. These are set forth in the Act in the following manner, and are dividel into three classes:— PART 1. IMPROVEMENTS TO WHICH CONSENT OF LANDLORD IS REQUIRED. (1). Erection or enlargement of buildings. (2). Formation of silos. (3). Laying down of permanent pasture. (4). Making and planting of osier beds. (5). Making of water meadows or works of irriga- tion. (6). Making of gardens. (7). Making or improving of roads or bridges. (8). Making or improving of watar courses, ponds, wells, or reservoirs, or of works for the application of water power, or for supply of water for agricul- tural or domestic purposes. (9). Making of fences. (10). Planting of hops. (11). Planting of orchards or fruit bushes. (12). Reclaiming of waste land. (13). Warping of land. (14). Embankment and sluices against floods. PART; 2.- IMPROVEMENT IN RESPECT OF WHICH NOTICE TO LANDLORD 18 REQUIRED. (15). Drainage. PART 3.—IMPROVEMENTS TO WHICH CONSENT OF LANDLORD IS NOT REQUIRED. (16). Boning of land with undissolved bones. (17). Chalking of land. (18). Clay-burning. (19). Claying of land. (20). Liming of Land. (21). Marling of Land. (22). Application to land of purchased artificial or other Durchased manure. (23). Consumption on the holding by cattle, sheep, or pigs of cake or other feeding stuffs not produced on the holding. In some of the English countijs, and especially in Lincolnshire, there is a custom which is usually admitted to be the best as regards agricultural tenancies generally. By it an improvement is estimated to last for so many years. Drainage, for instance, done by the tenant entirely at his own expense is estimated to last from 10 to 20 years. Thus drainage costing X500 is made and valued at say 20 years, or Y,25 a year. Then by each year that the tenant enjoys the benefit of the work the original amount expended is diminished, and the annually decreasing sums represents the compen- sation he will receive on quitting the holding. As for instance, the tenant having spent .£500 as suggested, quits at the end of 15 years, he will be entitled to five years unexhausted value or £ 125. Bo t contrary to this yearly principle as it is called, and also contrary to the Act of 1875, the present Åct fixes the valuation not on the amount expended but on the value of the improvement to the land- lord or incoming tenant when the outgoing tenant, quits the holding. The Act further directs that in calculating the value of an improvement male by the tenant there shall not be taken into account as part of such improvement what is justly due to the inherent, capabilities of the soil. It appears these words were inserted after a sharp fight in the Horse of Commons, as they were considered as lessening very materially the compensation a tenant would receive, as well as enhancing very consider- ably the difficulty of arriving at c. fair and just valuation of the tenant's claim, and at the same time giving proper effect to the words of this Boction. What the precise meaning of these words is it would be difficult at present to say; probably they mean no more than the ordinary rule of any valuer. The improvements for which the Act provides compensation are, as I have already stated, divided into three classes. The first are called permanent, as they last for many years, and they can only be made with the consent of the landlord when it is intended to claim compensation for them, but they may be made without such consent if it is proposed to take them away at the ">nd of the tenancy, and if they are of a removable character, T'he second class called durable, includes drainage only, and this can be done by the tenant on giving notice of his intention to the landlord. Then if the landlord does not choose to make the improvement himself the tenant can do it and claim compensation, but not until he quits the holding. Drainage is very fre- quently, and I may say m most instances in this ^art of the country, done by the lanJlord at a charge to the tenant, as a rule, of five or four per cent, on the outlay, or even a smaller charge, according as the tenant found the materials, or did the haulage or a portion of the labour. Under the Act a tenant who wishes to drain must, not more than two months and not less than one month, give his landlord notice, and in that notice he must fully set forth the manner he proposes doing the work, and they may agree amongst themselves upon the terms of compensation, I should here state that by draining no fresh fertility is imported into the soil. It is only a method of obtaining access to existing fertility, and, therefore, the increase alone in the value of the crops grown on drained land is not in itself considered a fair test of value, but the proper test, according to the Act, is the unexhausted value of the outlay with a proper reward for skill shewn in the construction and permanence of the work. The third class called manurial includes boning, claying, clay-burning, liming, marling, chalking, purchased manures, and feeding stuffs. The tenant can buy what manures he likes, and he can bring on the farm any feeding stuffs he desires, and for the improvement they have effected he will get paid, and, except in the last year of his tenancy, he can do the other six mentioned whenever and wherever he likes, and he will get paid their value when he quits. In the last year of his tenancy he must ascertain that his landlord consents to them. It will be seen that the Act gives no remedy to the "sitting tenant," whose rent is advanced on his own improvements, and this, I submit, is from a tenant's point of view, one of its greatest shortcom. inga. But, of course, it may be argued on the other side that the tenant gets the full benefit of the improvement while he continues the tenancy, which can hardly be the case, however, if the rent is raised, as the landlord immediately shares the benefit. As the principle of the present Act is based on the unexhausted value of the improve- ment at the quitting of the holding, it 'nay be well here to distinguish the beneficial from the merely stimulating application of manures, and for that purpose I will quote what Dr. Voelker said in his evidence before the Royal Commission of Agricul- ture. He said, "That the unexhausted value of manures depends upon their permanence, and he makes a great distinction between the use of artificial manures and the production in large quantities of farmyard mantire by the consumption of feeding stuffs, which should be encouraged." Light artificial manures are of no value even in the first year, except when applied in proper quantities and at the proper time. A great waste is incurred, and, no doubt, enormous sums of money are thrown away every year through the improper application of artificial manures. The effect of these manures must also largely depend on the character of the season after they are applied, whether it is wet or dry. Artificial manures should always be used in a well-pulverized condition, and just under the seed at the time of drilling, and especial care should be taken that it is well distributed. Mauures may thus be distributed into classes, viz., (1) those which increase the fertility of the soil, such as cattle foods, cake dung, &c., and (2) those which liberate existing fertility and make it available for plant food, such as lime, superphosphates, &c. Artificial manures do not perceptibly add to the fertility of the soil, but the comparatively small amount of manure ingredients which they supply is in a very active state. In cases of arbitration the practical working of the Act will always be to a great extent in the hands of the valuers or referees to be appointed under the reference clauses of the Act, but as p,)wer is given to substitute fair and reasonable compensation for compensation under the Act all agreements or leases drawn on these lines shall remain in force as the intention of the Act is not to compel landlords and tenants to enter into arbitration upon the question of unexhausted value of improvements, but to protect a tenant who has improved his holding, that either by agreement, custom, or under the Act he shall receive the unexhausted value of such improvement when he quits. Agreements which do not provide compensation for improve- ments are void both at law and in equity. The Act does not sweep away existing customs, but it appears to affect and control them largely. For instance if a tenant wishes to preserve his rights under the custom of the district in which he resides he may do so, but should he fail to establish his claim for compensation under such custom he may not afterwards so far as I can learn, fall back upon the Act for compensation, and vice versa, where his relations with the landlord are entirely governed by the Act, he will be wholly excluded from any benefit he might derive from custom, as it is held that custom once excluded is excluded for ever. The latter view, however, is not submitted without some degree of hesitation, as the Act does not seem to be very clear on this point. NOTICE TO QUIT. A year's notice expiring with the year of tenancy is made necessary, instead of a half-year's notice for determination of a tenancy from year to year made either before or after the commencement of the Act, unless the landlord and tenant by writing under their hands agree that the section shall not apply, in which case a half-year's notice shall be sufficient. FIXTURES. Just a word upon the Act in reference to these. A tenant is now at liberty to remove any engine. machinery, fencing, or other fixtures, or any build- ing he has erected before or within a reasonable time after the termination of the tenancy (if he has given his landlord the option of purchasing it, and 11 cl he has declined), provided that he observes certain rules in regard to removal, which are fully set forth in subsections 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 of sec. 34 of the Act, but which I neei not troiible you with now. All rights in regard to fixtures affixed to a hohiing I before the commencement of the Act are reserved, and may be enforced efter the Act has come in force. This provision is very important to a tenant in respect of permanent improvements which he may have made without the landlord's consent, and be- fore this Act was passed. Gentlemen, in the foregoing remarks I have endeavoured to give very briefly a summary of the Act, touching only upon those matters which I thought concerned us most nearly. Of course, it were impossible to do anything like justice to the subject on an occasion like the present without trespassing too much upon your patience, and wearying you with dry and needless details. I may, however, say this: that after reading the Act very carefully, both now and on previous occasions, I still consider, and in this I have no doubt you will agree with me, that the land question is indeed, a very difficult one to deal with. To govern fairly and justly, by any legislative enactments, the relations of landlord and tenant, to govern them, I repeat, in such a manner that. the rights of a tenant shall in all respects and under every circum- stance be fully secured to him, and at the same time the interests of the landlord be well and amply protected, is a matter that has puzzled the greatest minds. Various attempts have from time to time been made by the legislature to lessen the friction which frequently arises between landlord and tenant in connection with agricultural tenancies, but the questions arising are often of such a com- plex nature, and the conditions of agriculture vary so much in different localities, that it would be hopeless to look to any Act of Parliament to adjust every wrong, and remove or redress every grievance throughout the land. In my humble opinion, the present Act, so far as it goes, is a very good attempt in the right direction, especially those sections of it which provide that a landlord and tenant may come to terms with each other in regard to com- pensation for all improvements, provided they do so upon a fair and reasonable basis, which, as re- gards manurial improvements, is expressly stipulated in the Act, and this, gentlemen, I under- stand, is the course which has been pursued by most of the large landed proprietors, and must, eventually, be the the method which will be generally adopted throughout the country, as it is the one most likely to bring about the best and happiest solution of the problem and to contribute most to the advance- ment of agriculture. No law can, or ever will, settle the land question so well as that law of the heart, which, when in its right state, enjo:ns respect and esteem and a desire to please on the part of the tenant towards his landlord, and a kindness, and considerateness, and wish to help on the part of the landlord towards his tenant. Where their relations are governed by these kindly feelings, it is my experience that things have al- ways gone on admirably, not withstanding the adverse circumstances which often accompany depression in agriculture, and the numerous losses of one kind and another which i., is often the tenant's, and sometimes the landlord's, lot to bear. Gentle- men, I may be sanguine, but I anticipate a bright future for the agriculturists of this coun ry, and that at no very remote period. With the rapid ad- vance that education of every description is now making, and to prove this we have only to point to the government grants which are now obtainable in aid of technical education, the young Welsh farmer will very soon be supplied at his own door with a knowledge of agricultural chemistry, of the laws of vegetation, of the properties ot manures, and of the influences of climate, which will enable him in his then elevated and dignified vocation to cope with the competitive spirit of the times with far greater success than his ancestors could have done, or than be could have done himself without these ad- vantages. Yes, gentlemen, we must rise to the occasion, and immediately lay hold of those educa- tional advantages, and turn them to the best use before we can hope to make a successful stand against the foreigner, who is invading our markets with his farm produce, and selling it at a cheaper rate than wo can, beoause it has cost him less to produce. Before THE DISCUSSION counneuced, the Chairman drew attention to the 1 absence of one who should occupy the chair that day, but who was deterred from doing so by ill ness, viz Mr John Lewis Philipps, Bolahaul (applause). He thought it waa only right that they should as a club authorise their secretary to forward a letter of condolence to Mr Philipps in his present illness. The speaker was sure it was the wish of the club when he expressed his own opinion, and they all hoped to see him again soon occupying his various public capacites (loud applause). The Rev. R G. Lawrence, of Middleton Hall; thought that the Act was more in touch with the large farmers than the small farmers. But as long as a landlord kept on good terms with his tenants then there was very little need for an Act at all (applause). The more the landlord came into contact with his tenrnt there would be no cause for differences. As to drainage, Mr Lawrence was of opinion that the landlord should pay all expenses. Then as to the use of manures or phosphates he thought it was possible to overdose the land, and it was a custom with some tenants on leaving the farm to apply too much manure, which supports the one year's crop and ruins the land. Over- dosing the soil would make the land unfertile for some years. Technical education was now under discussion in the County Council, and they hoped to have & certain amount of money and a scheme in order to have a kind of college, where farmers and farmers' sons might be instructed in the rudiments of agriculture (applause). The speaker hoped that all farmers would then take advantage of all such institutions when established (applause). Mr John Williams, Penlan, Llanginning, said that it was a subject that be had not entered into very deeply, but be knew that good feeling beween landlord and tenant was the best Act of all (applause). There was in existence a moral law that, if practised would be beneficial, and there would be no need of legislation. There should be protection for the tenants, and also for the land- lords. With regard to draining, there should be no question that the expenses thereof should be borne by the landlord. It was a permanent benefit, a real profit, and gain to the landlord. As to manures, he was no great advocate of artificial manures, but the farmyard manure could not be carried up the steep hills, and thus artificial manures were useful. Undoubtedly, if they were judiciously used they would benefit the soil. He was a great advocate of education, and wished to see the young farmers haviug a scientific knowledge of the mode of treat- ing the land. Labour had gone now beyond value, and farms and land could never now pay well. There must be a great revolution in agriculture. Mr John Francis, Myrtle Hill, had had experi- ence of both sides, and the Act in itself was undoubtedly good. The difficulty was the carrying out of it. He was present in the House of Parlia- ment when the debate as to the inherent value of the land was on. A man might go on improving the land and making an outlay of money, and yet that improvement might not be of much value to the in-coming tenant. It was hard on the out-goiug tenant, as ho would be paid compensation on the value, not on the outlay spent by him. Those things seemed difficult, and a decision must be arrived at. As to the feeling between landlord and tenant, Mr Francis really thought that if the Act were settled between the tenant and his landlord that it would work better than it bad been worked. The hardship in this part of the country was the giving of two months' notice if the tenant intended claiming compensation under the Act. He had known in several instances where the tenant was utterly ignorant of the notice to the landlord. The farmer that has improved the farm could claim compensation, and the in-coming tenant's rent could be raised 35 per cent. It was a great hard- ship to those ignorant of the working of the Act. If the tenant has neglected, wasted, or destroyed, any of the holding, then the landlord could claim compensation. He did not agree with Mr Williams, Penlan, as to the drainage, as after a few years the drainage closed in and was not a permanent benefit to the landlord. Mr T. W. A. Evans, Kidwelly, had bad experience of the Act. Mr Thomas, Penlan, asked Mr Lloyd whether the tenant could sell the tenant's right ? Mr D. E. Stephens, solicitor, of Trawsmawr, said the most important points were, notices, distress, fixtures. The notice need not necessarily be made in writing. The question of distress bad been gone fully into. Before the Act of 1883 had been passed the landlord could distrain for six years rent, but since this had been statuted he could only claim one year's rent. What could they distrain upon? Stock taken on "tack" could not be distrained upon, and if a man put his cattle on another's land they are free of the Act. Then again beasts of the plough and sheep are exempt provided there are sufficient other things to distrain upon on the farm, such as hay, &c. As to drainage notice must be made in writing and delivered to the landlord before he commences with the drainage. Before the tenant makes his claim for fixtures he must give one months notice in writing of his intention to remove them. 4.11 damage done by their removal must be repaired by the tenant, and the landlord can first of all claim the fixtures at a fair price. Mr W. V. Howell Thomas, Starling Park, did not think that the act would be of great assistance to the small farmers in the immediate neighbourhood. One very strong reason was that it would possibly encourage the tenants that were inclined to be dis- honest to "do their landlords, by putting an outlay of money on the farm in order in two or three years to reap compensation. The tenant would thus be doing an injustice to the farm. The landlord should do the draining of the land. No doubt the money thus spent judiciously would benefit the landlord in time. Mr D. H. Thomas, Derllys Court, thought that the comparatively small cost put to by drainage would be nothing as ompared with the value of the land afterwards. He was in favour of the use of artificial manure. Mr Rees, Llwynfortune, having made a few remarks. Mr D. Prosser, Brynderwen, contended that from his experience drainage was not a peimanent improvement^ The soil at White House was now as good as it was 40 years ago. The drainage had closed in three years. Rev. S. Jones, R.D., Llangannor, was in favour of artificial manure, which he had used for seven yeare. Mr Lewis, Cillefwr, having made a brief address. Mr Lewis Bishop, of Llandilo, reitei ated at some length the statement made by Mr Lloyd. Mr Walter Lloyd, in replying to the various speakers, said that the calculation of compensation depends, not on the outlay of the outgoing tenant, but on the value of such improvements, to the in- coming tenant. As to selling the tenant's right he was of opinion that the outgoing tenant could with the sanction of the landlord agree with the incoming tenant. Rev. R. G. Lawrence said that his remarks at the beginning of the discussion were by no means intended to cast a slur on the agents, but only to win greater between landlord and tenant (applause). Mr Walter Lloyd said that they as agents only wished to act as mouthpieces to the landlords. Mr Williams, Penlan, and Mr John, Rotten Pill, having made a few remarks, the discussion was closed. PROPOSED TESTIMONIAL TO THE SECRETARY. Mr Walter Lloyd said he had been asked by several gentlemen to draw their attention that day to the services rendered to the club by the worthy secretary. It bad been established about the year 1853, and was then in its infancy as all institutions were at the commencement, but now it had assured gigantic proportions (applause). Now it was obvious to all that a great deal of exertion had been put forward by someone, and that one was no less than their secretary, Mr W. W. Prosser (applause). He had worked for about 30 years gratuitously, and had laboured hard throughout. But during the last five years he received a paltry Y,5 for his services. He thought it was their duty to give him a further proof of their appreciation of the services he bad rendered to the club during those years. He would propose that a testimonial be given to the secretary (applause). Mr D. H. Thomas believed Mr Prosser to be always ready to take any advice. There were few on the committee who took an active part in the work of the club, and thus the work developed upon the secretary. He seconded with great pleasure the proposal (applause.) Mr H. F. Pritchard said that for six years he bad been a member of that club, and thought that the success of any club depended entirely upon the exertions of the secretary (applause). He was the lever behind that worked and supported it (applause). He supported the motion. It was unanimously agreed that Mr Walter Lloyd be secretary and treasurer to the testimonial fund and that the Farmers' Club committee now in exist- ence be the committee to arrange and decide as to the form it should take. THE RAFFLE then took place, and resulted as follows:—Mr Henry David Williams, Tynycoed, shaft harness Mr J. Williams, Penlan, butter worker Mr David Hinds, ¡ Tyllwyd, double-mould plough; Mr David Davies, 0 Cvvmmaubach, grindstone; Mr Davies, Cyncoed, wheelbarrow; Mr D. T. Lloyd, Nott-square; wheel- barrow; Mr Thomas, Cilharvey, hay knife; Mr W. Davies, late Penlan, hay knife digging forks, Mr A. W. J. Stokes, Ystradwrallt Mr Charles Jones Waterloo House Mr H. F. Pritchard, Bank Mr John Thomas, Penlan Mr John Jones, Cwmbwrry Mr Jonathan Phillips, Scyborstone; pick axes, Mr Rees, Llwynfortune; Mr R. A. Brokie, Bank Mr Daniel Jones, contractor; Mr W. E. Bowen, Wern- chwith; Mr Samuel Rees, Penlan Mr John E. Phillips, Caerlleon mattocks, Mr E. Thomae, Woodbine; Mr T. Davies, Castle Howell Mr Henry Thomas, Bremeuda-issaf Mr E. J. Williams, Pont Richard Eynon Mr Frank GWJn, Plas Cwrt Hir; and Mr D. Jcnes, A vote of thanks to the chairman terminated the proceedings.

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