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UHURCH DEFENCE MEETING\ AT…
UHURCH DEFENCE MEETING AT BLAENAVON. ADDRESS BY THE REV G. BISHOP. A jsnblic meeting was held on Thursday eves- ing week at the Infant Schoolroom, Blaenavon, '1 when an address was given on the XJisesiaMishment and Disendowment of TJbe Church of England by the Rev 1J. Bishop, of Nottingham. There was a large attendance, the room being crowded, and ifoe greatest interest was taken in the proceed- ings. Mr Ivor Richards occupied the chair. The Chairman The subject of Mr Bishop's -atidre. is one that we are all more or less familiar Triik, and I will not take up your time with any remarks of my own respecting 1+. I hope you will listen patiently to what Mr Bishop has to -say, and at the close he will be prepared to ans-wer any questions that may be put to him. I will aow call upon Mr Bishop to deliver his lec- ture. The Rev G. Bishop I do not knew what your opinion may be about words, but we live in a day -wlien -gords are put forth that have no meaning. a-nd unfortunately people take up with words of rhiy kind and vote for them and against them. I tiank it is very on wise to dispute about words which we do not attach clear meanings, be- cause if we do not understand them our discus- sions are not of much value. I do not know what the word Disestablishment means, but I do know what is meant by Disendowment. Our friends of the Opposition say the Church should be disestablished, and I saw from a copy of your ioeal press that a gentleman asked why should act the Church be disestablished, and he seemed To be triumphant beciuse no Churchman answered it. Disestablisbment means nothing as far as I can see, but if he means why should it aot be disendowed I can reply to him. I say dtiatt the Church of England should not be dis- endowed because we live in a free country, and it has as much right to exist as anything else. Pteople say of me in my own district that I like lighting. Perhaps I do and perhaps 5. don't, but I like to do my duty, and one of the things we Chacch people most do in these days is to fight for wkat we believe is right. Some people think that they have the exclusive right to attack the Church and the Church people have no right to speak in its defence. I say that the Church has an equal light to exist as any other religious body in the eoiuatry, and it is a piece of impudence for any rrrtrt to why it should not be disendowed. These people display a lot of ignorance when They talk so and seem to think they can attack -as at their leisure, and people who take no side in this question find a lot of assertions made on ÐÐe side which are met with timidity on the vther, and consequently get led to think that the man whe attacks must be in the right, and the Churchman who is silent is supposed to be de- feated. The Church has rights and privileges, And if she should not exist it is only fair that Ñher religious bodies should be abolished. (Applause.) Do to others as you would have ;hem do to you" is the old motto,and that is true in this case. Property devoted to God's service most be looked upon as sacred, but if not why should property which is not sacred be left alone? It is our duty to one another that fair play should be given all round. Whatever there may have been done m toe past, and whatever es haTe been made,have nothing to do with -as, as we wre not in existence then. You no business to bring up anything that is said to have been done 200 or 500 years age, and what, then, is the good of raking up old grievances? Our op- ponents are constantly raking up old grievances as the reason why the Church should be dis- endowed. Each of the individuals whose speeches I have read in your local paper display a wonderful lack of information. If a man mukes an untrue statement he is either ignorant or wilfully false, bat I prefer to regard a man as Tery ignorant rather than false. You had a gentleman down here who stated that the Church in this country was created by Act of Parliament, and when he was asked to bring f or- ward the Act of Parliament his reply wag that I it was DOt set up by one Act of Parliament, but by several, one after the other, which is rather fanuj. It is very curious, if the Church was set sip in thia way, that no Act of Parliament can be funml rvwurdiug it. It' yoa were to write to be funml rvwurdiug it. If you were to write to Jfesøn Spottiswood and ask them to send you I 4ova the Act of Parliament that started the fShoxch of England, I am afraid they would think you had gone a little wrong. (Laughter.) Sow is it, in the face of th is, that men can s^o "about the country talking such nonsense? It t? quite true that all Acts of Parliament from ) generations past cannot be got there, but they can be got somewhere, and that is at the British Museum, and you can get there the Act of Par- liament appertaining to Nonconformity in Wales, but our friends cannot find the Act of PaWamont that started the Church. I deny that any Act of this kind is in existence. No Act of Parliament ever started the Church, nor the bishops, nor the sacraments, nor the creeds, mhd no Act of Parliament ever found the Church's money. In the name of common sense, then, what do they mean by saying an Act ef Parliament founded the Church of England ? (Applause.) I have been on this subject for 17 years, and know pretty well what can be proved, and I say distinctly, without fear of contradic- tion, that there is no Act of Parliament for these things. If you take a book published by the Liberation Society you will find several Acts of Parliament referred to, the whole of which, according to this book, constituted the event known in history as the Reformation. This hook talks about Acts of Parliament passed in the reigns of Henry VHI. and Elizabeth, but tloes not produce the Act of Parliament which started the Church, and why not ? Simply be- cause it cannot. But we find later on, in a copy of the Liberator, the admission was made in an article that the Church of England was not faniided by an Act of Parliament, inasmuch as the Act could not be produced. Now, in the face of this admission, it certainly is a bold ihing for men to go about the country stating the Church was founded by Act of Parliament. Of course we all know that all bodies exist by right of Parliament, and Acts of Parliament rule everything, including the Great Western Railway. By the way, this is the reason given -wAy the Church should be disendowed. Why, 1enoonformity was started by Act of Parlia- jotent, and if there be any logic in the matter it 11 against our Nonconformist friends, and a plea If their disendowment. Let them go on with T-eir work of saving souls, and let the Church do own noble work. Another reason given for ^Heiidowment is, they say, that before the Re- Xpoaation the Pope was head of the Church of Sugland. The Bishop of Rome, I say dis- ly. was never the head of the Church before Reformation. He only had his way here by Tnission of the ruler of this country. Sup- Ping you allowed a friend to come into your $se freely, it would not mean that he had any it there except by permission, and if you aid object you could shew him the door. ore is all the difference, therefore, between in a country by right and by permission, this, we maintain, is the history of our ifch. If you refer to Stubbs's Constitutional ory," you will find it stated that the reason the Norman Conquest took place was be- » the Bishop of Home complained that the Tjsh Church was not subject to him, and he b Tjsh Church was not subject to him, and he William of Normandy over here and William the Conqueror got here the p of Rome wanted to rule, but the king "No; none of my predecessors acknow- 4 yorr authority, and neither shall I." and did he. Thereupon the Bishop of Rome d his ecclesiastics to leave the country, illiam said, Not without my leave," and id to stay. Since that time. however, we .n very free, and have let Roman Catho- vtle in this country. I deny, therefore, 3 Bishop of Rome was the head of the 7, of this country. It is retorted that Slizabeth once said to an archbishop, be- Is wo.1 ld not do what she told him, If t't de what I want I will unmake you." Jdno do that, as a man can only be HBILO > by those who were bishops before '0. hV that the clergy sometimes went to (U advice and counsel, which was per- jhfc. When the seat of Government was from Rome t» Constantinople, the as the chief man left in the imperial I he was the head of the church there, -ere, however. When men got into dis- tome, they would go to the Bishop of ■r his advice and counsel, and he acted, as an arbitrator between the parties, laster, and he was paid a salary from ry and other countries as well to settle rnational disputes. This salary was Peter's pence, and was abolished by .Parliament, and it was decided that i no appeal should be made to Rome is is given as a reason why our Church •obbed. These generous gentlemen, will not touch a penny belonging to uilt after 1820 and why, I should W, should they touch anything be- churches before that date. Your in Blaenavon was built in 1805, ry unlucky for you, as they intend under a Local Board or County ienty of elections for you in future. The Liberation Society have not i what they will do with the money, tr Gee proposes that those churches SO shall be left to the people who tin as long as Protestant doctrines in them and your church having — » — ■*— *Vatiinw 1tA endowments are to be taken away, because, as they say, the Bishop of Rome was head of the Church before the Reformation. (Laughter.) If the money is to be used for secular purposes, some better reason must be given than this. Another reason given for disendowment* is, that the Church is helpless and cannot do anything without getting an Act of Parliament passed. Five years ago I produced an Act of Parliament passed in the year 1871 in the interests of the Wesleyana in Ireland, to assist them with power to hold and invest money and to regulate generally the Wes- leyan Society in that country. There are -,trings of Acts passed for the Government of Noncon- formists and yet they complain that the Church cannot stir without an Act of Parliament. What ridiculous nonsense. You will find that the Church can act when it is necessary. The Wes- teyans cannot alter the system of changing their ministers every three years without an Act of Parliament—(hear, hear)—and there i, not a trust deed belonging to the chapel which can be altered or chapels sold without first of all getting permission from the Charity Commissioners, and even then the Nonconformists are bound to build another chapel with the money and a simi- lar trust deed must be drawn up. No one is free from Actof Parliament, either Church or Dissent. I should have preferred, if your Vicar could have arrainged it for a public debate, so that we could have the whole matter thrashed out, but the other side have thought it fit not to come forward. I would not have any book quoted unless that book was on the platform at the time of the debate. If a man is honest in what he says he has no need to fear, but there are a great many men going about making doubtful state- ments and calling them facts, which simply mis- leads the people. Another reason our opponents give for disendowment is, that the Church of Irelafid was disendowed. Two wrongs don't make a right, and because one man is robbed of his watch that is no reason why another man should be treated in a similar manner. I deay, however, that the Disendowment of the Church in Ireland was right. The Irish Church Lad seven millions of money taken from her, and does that prove that she is better because she has been robbed of this amount? I defy anyone to prove that Ireland has been benefited since that time—she 1 has gone from bad to worse. When you touch money which is sacred and devoted to God, evil results will surely follow. The landlords of Ireland who helped on the disestablishment of the Irish Church thought to save themselves, but they found out their mistake, for the same thing was afterwards applied to the landlords, and I say serve them right. The French nation in- duced Louis XVI. to take away the property of the Church in France, but did that save his head, or did the nobility save their property ? Not a bit of it. Given the same circumstances in this country, and the same thiilgs would happen. Depend upon it, if you agree te this scheme of spoliation other property will be attacked later on-and why not ? If the best goes the others cannot stay. There is another thing I would like to mention, and that is this We are con- stantly being told, we Church people, that if we did not have a Bishop of Rome over our heads before the Reformation, we have property be- longing to the Roman Catholics. I totally deny this assertion, first of all by telling you what the Roman Catholic bishops in England said them- selves, in 1826, which you can get in a book for sixpence, and read for yourselves. In this year there were a number of bishops—Roman Catho- lics—called Vicars Apostolic, and I believe it was then illegal to call themselves bishops of towns in England. In 1850, the Bishop of Rome, Pius IX., sent a Bull into this country authorising the setting up of bishops taking their titles from English towns, and they were-allowed to do this by our Government, and called themselves bishops accordingly. Those Catholic bishops, in 1826, said they had no right nor claim to any property of the Church of England and if they had no right then, how can they have a right now in 1893 ? They repudiated the idea them- selves, and yet agitators and lecturers will go about the country telling their audience, who probably believe them in many instances, that we Church people possess property belonging to the Church of Rome. Before the Reformation the creed was the same as now, and you usually judge a church by its creed. The creeds in the Church of England, as they xrw stand, have been the same for hundreds of years be- fore- the Reformation, and the creed of the Bishop of Home was the same then, but the Romish creed.is altogether different now. Except in one point all our doctrines are Catholic, not Papal or Roman Catholic and we deny that we have any money belonging to those who held Pins IX.'s creed. In 1870 a doctrine was added to the Church of Rome, which laid down that when the Pope spoke officially he spoke infallibly, and the members were bound to accept and be- lieve this but previously, in 1854, another doc- trine was introduced, viz., the immaculate con- ception. These are two doctrines tadded to the Roman Church since the Reformation. The Church of England has never adopted the doc- trine of purgatory. It is what the Church de- fines in ner creeds that we believe in. Well, when men died, Catholics' money was frequent left to pray for the souls of the departed. What has become that money ? None of it went to theChurch of England. Another assertion is made, and that is that we confiscated the monies belonging to the monasteries, but where did the monasteries get the money from orginally ? Why, from the Church of England, who they had previously robbed, and our Church simply got back what belonged to her before. You will find this duly recorded, and you can get it from any historian. You will find as a general rule that when a church has a vicar, if it is an old church, it is very poor. And why ? Because it was robbed before the days of the Reformation, and when the monasteries were destroyed the money did not all come back again. Now do not take all I say for gospel, but read for yourselves. I was a working man one time Mr Howes told you so five years ago. (Laughter.) So do not take me as infallible. Do not believe Mr Howes nor me, but find out the truth for yourselves. (Applause.) I say if a man does not understand this matter he has no business, being ignorant, to be a party in robbing my Church when he knows nothing about it. (Applause.) If you are unable, through poverty or other causes, to read up, you should give the Church the benefit of the doubt, and not believe any speaker. We do not want to pull down Dissent, and we want our grand old Church to go and prosper. There is room for improvement in the Church-(hear, hear)—but reform is not revolution, and some people do not want to see it reformed, as the agitators would lose their stock-in-trade. The Church people will do their best to reform their Church, but if they fail it will be through the opposition of the Dissenters. Let the House of Commons take their hands off the Church, and let the Church have her freedom, and allow con- vocation to meet as freely as the Wesleyan con- ference does, and the Church will quickly reform its abuses. She saves more souls to-day than ever she did, and she grows so strong that her enemies are jealous of her. Like a big dog and a little one, they would like to bite her but dare not. It behoves us all who are true and loyal to our grand old Church to preserve her, and te do our best to upset this scheme of spoilation, and hand it down in all its glory and purity to those who come after us. (Tremendous applause, during which the lecturer resumed his seat.) The Chairman: Mr Bishop will now answer any questions. Mr Evan Williams, from the audience, who was cheered by his supporters, said he would like to know Mr Bishop's definition of the word tithe. Mr Bishop The word tithe means a tenth, and generally speaking means a tenth of pro- perty set apart for the use of the Church. Amongst the Jews it was used for the Jewish religious services. In this country it is pro- perty bequeathed by persons to support God's work. Mr Evan Williams: Are tithes voluntary contributions? Mr Bishop Certainly. Mr Williams How can you say they are voluntary contributions when men are obliged to leave their homes because they object to pay them? Mr Bishop I have spoken of men who leave this charge on their property. Any person who takes a farm, and agrees to pay a certain sum for it, out of which he understands that he is to pay nine-tenths rent and one-tenth tithe, if he objects to this when pay day comes round, and can pay, he ought to be made to pay it is purely a matter of business. Mr Fisher, of the Liberation Society, says there is no injustice in tithes while Mr Gee says when the Church is disestablished, tithes will still be enforced. I am sure our young friend would enforce his right if he was in this position. Mr Williams You have no right to say what I would do in such a case. (Uproar.) Mr Bishop I take it our friend is a man of common sense, and would expect a contract agreed upon between him and another man to be faithfully carried out. If a farmer objects to pay a tithe he should not agree in the fimt instance to pay it. Anyone who refuses to pay what he has agreed to is a dishorfest man, and breaks the eighth commandment. This answer did not satisfy the questioner, who repeated his question amidst some uproar, and Mr Bishop answered him again. Another person asked a question, which, how- ever; was not very intelligible. Mr Bishop I must object, Mr Chairman, to any more lads asking questions. Are there not any men in the room who can speak up instead oileavinK this sort, of thine tq-iioss ? Another questioner There was a time when tithes were voluntary, and one time they were made compulsory, and paid in kind, which was afterwards done away with. You just said that Acts of Parliament had nothing to do with the working of the Church. If so, when was the alteration made ? Mr Bishop I never said anything of the kind. What I did say was that dissent was as much regulated by Act of Parliament as the Church. I do not admit that where tithes did not exist, they were put on the land by Act of Parliament; it is not true. That is one of the fallacies men are so fond of putting about. Then my friend says tithes were paid in kind, which is Quite true, and that tithe was put on the land. Why, tithes were always on the land, and you have no more right to refuse payment when you have agreed to pay, than you have to refuse paying your rent. Tithes are a part of rent, not an addition to it. Questioner Why should a farmer pay tithe to support a church he does not believe in ? Mr Ulshop: The farmer knows the conditions before he takes a farm. If he takes a farm at say JilOO a year and pays JE90 rent and £10 tithe what is the difference in paying this, and in pay- ing J:100 a year and no tithu. The state simply interferes by insisting that a con tract agreed upon by two parties should be carried out. It is not only the Church who has tithes, some of the chapels own tithes as well, and you may depend upon it they insist on payment, and quite right too. Another questioner: Was there not a period when one-third of a tax was paid to the clergy, one-third for the relief of local rates, and one- third for the poor ? Mr Bishop Not in England, but such a thing was in operation in France, but it was not con- tinued. I deny absolutely that the tithe was ever thus dealt with in this country. (Applause.) The questioner then referred to a speech given by Canon Burbridge in Southport, and asked Mr Bishop if he agreed with those remarks, but the lecturer said he never heard of such an indivi- dual, and it was impossible for him to agree or otherwise with an extract from a newspaper which may or may not contain the sense of Canon Burbridge's ideas. Questioner Do you sav that the monev the church possesses was left by pious ancestors ? Mr Bishop: I do most decidedly. Questioner: Were not a lot of the churches built by a public tax? Mr Bishop: I quiet understand what you are driving at. You refer to the coal dues of the city of London which by the way granted for church and chapel. In the year 1666, as every schoolboy knows, the great fire of London took place and it burnt down 89 churches. Before this the streets were very narrow, and the King 'then said the streets were to be widened, and an act was passed placing the whole of the church sites in the hands of the Corporation. They took a lot of land away from the churches for this purpose, and by way of compensation the state agreed to rebuild the 89 churches; but only 63 churches were rebuilt so there are 26 still | °^ingi and I. wish the State would cash up. (Laughter). One or two more questions were asked and promptly answered, after which a hearty vote of thanks was accorded to Mr Bishop for his address. A vote of thanks to the Chairman terminated the meeting. There was considerable excitement while the questions were being asked, but on the whole the meeting passed off very well, and the lecture was very interesting and instructive.
:GREAT WESTEHN TEMPERANCE…
GREAT WESTEHN TEMPERANCE SOCIETY. CONCERT AT GRIFFITHSTOWN. On Monday a tea and concert in connection with the Pontypool Road branch of the above was held at the Great Western Railway Institute, Grimthstown. About 200 sat down to tea, the tables being presided over by Mrs Bamford, Mrs H. Cook, Miss Janes, Mrs 0. Thomas, Mrs W. Thomas, Mr C. Wilkins, and Mrs S. Winsor. The room was nicely decorated, and a capital tea was given In the evening Mr W. B. Witchell, Abersychan, presided at the concert, and de- livered one of his usual stirring temperance addresses in opening the proceedings. During the course of his remarks he taid h<> was very pleased to be present to advocate the cause of the Great Western Temperance Society, which, although it had only been formed about four months, had enrolled 70 members, and a very pleasing feature was to nnd that the whole of the 70 were thorough-going total abstainers. (Cheers.) He did not care for doing things by halves, and he strongly commended the principle of doing away altogether with tobacco and strong drinks. If the young people would commence to abstain in their youth they would never know the want of. the drink. Another point the speaker dwelt on—that was the exorbitant price charged in railway refreshment rooms for milk, coffee, and non-intoxicating drinks. The pro- prietors were most unreasonable. It did not tend to sobriety to charge 2d for a glass of beer and 4d for a cup of coffee, and he strongly advised the railway men to agitate for a reform of the charges made in the railway refreshment rooms for non-intoxicating drinks.—The follow- ing; programme was then given :—Chairman's address; pianoforte, Chime again, beautiful bells," Miss Elsie O'Beirne song, Do as they do in England," Miss Walters song, The Englishman," Mr T. Evans song, At the ferry," Miss Powell; pianoforte and violin," Life let us cherish," Misses Wall and Harris song, rw The Star of Bethlehem," Miss O'Beirne song, "Nil Desperandum," Mr James Edmunds; Siano and violin, "March of the men of Harlech," lisses Wall and Harris; song, The village rrl fair," Mr T. Evans song, The captive Greek girl," Mrs O'Beirne; song, The Outpost," Mr Edmonde (Alaw Gwent) song, Two's com- pany, three's none," Miss Powell pianoforte trio, Les Jolis Oiseaux quadrilles, Mr, Mrs, and Miss Elsie O'Beirne; song, The Star of Normandie," Miss Walters; song, Village blacksmith,"Mr James Edmunds song, "Barney O'Hea," Miss O'Beirne; song, "Beautiful dreamer," Miss Elsie O'Beirne. Mr Gwilym Mordecai very ably presided at the piano as accompanist. Miss Elsie O'Beirne also accompanied Miss O'Beirne very pleasingly. Mr Winsor proposed a general vote of thanks, and said that they had had a very successful day. This was only the commencement of a series of entertainments it was intended to carry out, as attractions of this kind were conducive to the interest of the society. Mr Roderick ably seconded the resolution, which was carried unanimously. Mr Martin O'Beirne returned thanks for the proposition on behalf of himself and family, and the other singers, and said it gave his family pleasure in being able to assist in the movement, and they would always be willing to assist in the future. It was pleasing to him to nnd such a number of the railway men total abstainers, and he hoped their number would continue to in- crease. The men proposed a vote of thanks to the Chairman, which was seconded by the Rev D. M. Davies, and carried unanimously. Mr Witchell returned thanks, and a very successful meeting was brought to a close.
WOODBURY VO-LUNTEER CAMP,
WOODBURY VO-LUNTEER CAMP, PROGRAMME OF THE ARRANGE- MENTS. A programme of the arrangements in connec- tion with the Volunteer Camp to be held at Woodbury, near Exmouth, from the 22nd to the 29th of July, has been drawn up, and will shortly be issued. As already mentioned, it is expected that between 9,000 and 10.000 men will take part in the proceedings, the corps represented com- prising the three Monmouthshire corps, five battalions from Devonshire, two from C«rnwall, two from Somersetshire, and others from Gloucestershire, Glamorgan, and Brecon. Saturday, July 22, is fixed as the day for arrival in camp. On Sunday there will be church parades en Monday and Tuesday there will be battalion and brigade drills; on Wednesday, manoeuvres for mounted troops and cyclists Thursday and Friday, manoeuvres for all arms, with marches past; and on Saturday the camp will break up. The following will be the general idea for the manoeuvres, which may be supposed to commence on the afternoon of Tuesday. A force (to be called the Southern Force) having landed its infantry at the mouth of the Exe, on the morning of the 25th, encamps on Black-hill. Information is received that hostile troops (to be called the Northern Force) are encamped in the vicinity of Harpford. Cyclists from the Southern Force are sent for- ward to reconnoitre, but are stopped by the Northern outposts. On the morning of Wed- nesday, some mounted troops having been landed by the Southern force, a reconnaissance is made, to endeavour to ascertain the strength and position of the enemy. In the evening, the Southern outposts are threatened. On Thursday the Southern troops advance and attack the Northern position. An indecisive action ensues. On Friday, the Northern force, having been reinforced, advances in its turn, and endeavours to drive the enemy into the sea. With regard to the distinguishing dress, the Northern force will wear spngs of heather in their head-dress throughout the operations. The following officers will act as umpires, under instructions from the general officer commanding, who will be the umpire-in:chief:—Colonel Milne-Home, Cnjonel Ducat. Lieut-Colonels Howard, Parlby, WailiAfi and Purchase.
LIBERAL MEETING AT BLAENAVON.
LIBERAL MEETING AT BLAEN- AVON. ADDRESSES BY MR T. P. PRICE. M.P., MR R. McKENNA, AND THE REV W. TUCKWELL. On Monday evening a public meeting, under the auspices of the Blaenavon Working Men's Liberal Association, was held at the Town Hall, Blaenavon, and proved in point of numbers and enthusiasm, a thorough success. In accordance with the programme usually pursued at Blaen- avon, the public meeting was preceded by a largely-attended public tea at the Primitive Methodist Schoolroom, where for a considerable time the resources of the waiters were taxed to the utmost in providing for their guests. The pubhc meeting was attended by a crowded and enthusiastic audience, the utmost unanimity prevailing during the whole of the proceedings. Various effective—if time adorned—mottoes adorned the walls and tho Blaenavon Temper- ance Brass Band beguiled the tedium of waiting for the" platform by playing several selections more or less popular in very creditable style. The chairman for the evening was Mr T. P. Price, M.P., (the intelligence of whose resigna- tion will be found recorded in another column), who was supported by the Rev W. Tuckwell, popularly known as "the Radical parson" (a prime favourite in a Blaenavon Radical audience), and Mr R. McKenna, êf London (who contested Clapham at the last election). Amongst others, we noticed on the platform Principal and Mrs Edwards, Pontypool; Mr and Mrs C. White, Blaenavou; Alderman W. Edwards, Maindee Alderman H. Parfitt, Pont- newydd; Alderman D. Jones, Pontymoil; the Rev W. Rees; Mr L. Davies, Plymouth (formerly secretary of the Blaenavon Liberal Association); Mr H. M. Davies, president Mr T. Ahearn, secretary Councillor T. Griffiths; Messrs W. H. Hughes, Pontypool; W. Bryant, W. Magness, G. Bartlett, W. R. West, J. Howells, &0. The Chairman, who on rising was received most enthusiastically, said he was pleased once more to see a Blaenavon audience and the men who had stood by the Liberal cause so splendidly in the past. He was glad also to be there to listen to and welcome two gentlemen who had come long distances to speak to them that even- ing—The Rev W. Tuckwell and Mr McKenna. (Cheers.) Mr Tuckwell Was an old friend of theirs. Mr McKenna was an old friend of his. (Cheers.) He (the speaker) had stood by him and assisted him when he contested Clapham, where he made a splendid fight, but where, he regretted to say, he was not altogether success- ful. Whatever the result of that election was, he hoped that as the result of the next election Mr McKenna would be found on the floor of the House of Commons, with the Liberal party, fighting the battles of the people. (Cheers.) He wanted as briefly as possible, as he did not desire to stand between those gentlemen and the audience, to tell them what had transpired in the House of Commons during the present session. When they were before them at the last general election the first measure they were asked to support was a measure of Home Rule for Ireland. (Cheers.) For the last seven years the principle of Home Rule had been discussed through the length and breadth of the land. The Govern- ment brought in a measure of Home Rule, whioh they were pledged to carry out. The principle of Home Rule was self-government for Ireland. And how had they been met ? They had been met by a most extraordinary system of opposition and obstruction such as had never been known in the House of Com- mons before. Amendments had avowedly been made, not with the object of improving the Bill, but to kill and destroy it. (" Shame.") As Mr Gladstone said one day, in answer to Mr Cham- berlain—one day the amendment came up roast; the second day it was hashed the third day it came up in slices the fourth day it came up minced and the next day it came up soup. (Laughter.) Owing to the great opposition, Mr Gladstone on the 10th March proposed, as they were not getting on with the business, that Satur- day should be set apart as a sitting of the House. As they knew, on Satarday they generally had a holiday. The Tories were eight hours (they occupied the whole of the night) in settling whether they should sit on Saturday or not. C' Shame ") He held- tbiat that if the state of things which occurred iii ^ttanec^aop with the House of Commons obtains in relation to the County Councils or the Local Boards of the country, the representatives would soon be sent about their business. (Hear, hear.) In the morning the Conservative papers like the Tims and Standard would say that business was pro- ceediug too rapidly, and in the afternoon they would get obstruction of the most unabashed and shameless character. Let them look at the progress of the Home Rule Bill. Generally speaking, a first reading went through after a day's or a night's discussion but in this case the first reading took four days, the second reading a fortnight, and now that they had got into com- mittee the first clauses took a fortnight. The third clause was now under discussion. It had taken a week already, and would probably take a week more. Their wishes and the wishes of the majority were treated in that way. He said that some stringent and drastic measures were necessary, and he hoped that before long Mr Gladstone would put his foot down, and he be- lieved when he did put his foot down he would have the support of the Liberals and Radicals throughout the country. (Cheers.) The oppo- sition was not so much against Home Rule. The Tories were afraid of the other measures which was coming on. They were afraid of the measures which would come much nearer to them than Home Rule for Ireland. (Applause.) It was gratifying to find that Mr Gladstone had admitted that never had a party stuck to its leader or its Government better than the Liberal party had done during his present term ef ffice. his words being that never in hIS recollection had a Government been better sup- ported by its followers. (Cheers.) There had been a good deal of solid and useful work done this session already. The prophecies of their opponents had been wrong. They said the ministry would not last, they said the members would not support the ministry, and that they could not produce a measure which would suit the Irish people. All that prophecy had been falsified. They had produced a measure which, as far as it had gone, had been loyally supported by the Irish members in the House of Commons. (Cheers.) They should sit in the Bouse of Commons till they had passed that Bill of Home Rule for Ireland, whether it was till September, October, November, or December. (Loud applause.) They would sit until they passed the Bill, and then, after having done that, it would come before another House. (Laughter.) They would have to consider iti and they would see how the House of Lords would treat that Home Rule Bill; and few it any of them as Radicals would be at all sorry to have it out in the House of Lords. (Applause.) Something aught to be done at once, for there was no doubt in the world that there was, almost for the first time in history, a good feeling and a good and sympathetic understanding between the Irish democracy and the English democracy, so that even if the Bill did not pass they had accomplished a very great work indeed. (Hear., hear.) As he had said, Home Rule Wail pot the only thing that had been before the House that session. They had endeavoured as far as they had been allowed to carry out the New- castle programme. (Cheers.) They had intro- duced and passed the second reading of the Registration Bill, a Bill that was intended really to give the people of this country the vote. They could hardly imagine that at the end of the 19th century in a civilised country the vote could be given them with one hand and then taken away with the other for a couple of years. That was what happened under the present regulation laws. Such a monstrous state of things ought not any longer to be allowed to exist. (Hear, hear.) The Railway Servants Bill, a Bill dealing with the hours (f railway servants, had passed through all its stages into the third reading. It was one of the promised Bills, and might therefore be said to be an accom- plished fact. The Employers' Liability Bill, to which there had been a great deal of opposition, had passed the second reading and the Parish and District Councils Bill had passed its first reading, having been very well and favourably received by the House. The Local Veto Liquor Bill had been introduced, and had passed its tirst reading. (Cheers.) He had enumerated those Bills in order to shew them that, although there had been a great deal of obstruction on the Home Rule Bill, the Government had done their best to endeavour to carry out the pledges to the country. Another Bill, the Welsh Suspensory Bill, had been carried by a majority of 57—(pro- longed applause)—although a large number of Liberal Unionists, people who called themselves Liberals in everything except the Home Rule Bill, voted against it. The most bitter opposi- tion to the Irish Bill had come from the Liberal Unionists. There were no three more bitter men in the House of Commons than Chamber- lain, Jesse Collings, and T. W. Russell— Shame ")—and he thought if they could only hear the way in which they treated the Grand Old Man they would turn them out. (Applause.) The Welsh Veto Bill had been carried by a majority of 35. The Miners' Eight Hours Bill I had been carried by a majority cf 78, although in the last House of Parliament it was rejected by 100, shewing that there was now a different 1 feeling in the House of Commons on that sub- ject. The Payment of Members' Bill had been passed by a majority of 47. (Cheers.) He men- tioned these things to shew that they had not been idle since they had been at Westminster, and after further remarks the hon. member re- sumed his seat amid ringing applause. Mr H. M. Davies, in au appropriate speech, proposed the following resolution :—" That this meeting of the Liberals of Blaenavon places upon record its appreciation of the earnestness given by the Government, of its sincere and honest endeavour to carry out the legislative re- forms embodied in the Newcastle programme, and while urging upon Mr. Gladstone to deal firmly with the unscrupulous obstruction of the Tory party, expresses extreme gratification at the faithfulness and self-denial of the Liberal members in their support of an enlightened policy and a great and glorious leader." (Cheers.) Mr W. R. West seconded in a brief speech. Principal Edwards, Pontypool, supported in an eloquent and frequently applauded address. Mr R. McKenna,who, on rising to support the resolution was warmly received, said he had been reminded that he appeared there as a defeated candidate. He could only regret that he was beaten by superior numbers. (Laughter.) He was there that evening in support of the extension of the democratic principle to local as well as imperial affairs. With regard to the Home Rule Bill, the Welsh Church Suspensory •^ a?^ the Parish Councils Bill, the point he wished to emphasise in the case of each of those measures was this, that an overwhelming majority of the people who were more par- ticularly affected by the Bills had declared in their favour. (Cheers.) Take, for instance, the Home Rule Bill affecting the Irish people. The great majority of the Irish people were in favour that Bill. Surely that should be ground sufficient for a democratic Government passing the Bill into law. Take again the Welsh Church Suspensory Bill. Disestablishment in Wales was a pur<31y Welsh question. It affected no one but the Welsh. That again he took it, seeing that the overwhelming majority of the Welsh were in favour of Disestablishment, was a sufficient ground for passing the measure into law. The same could be said of the Parish Councils Bill. The rnral population throughout the country who were affected by that Bill were a hundred to one in favour of that measure. Surely that shoulq be convincing to the obtusest Tory that the time had come when a strong measure of Local Government for the country should become law. .eers-) He asked for democracy in local affairs as well as in Imperial affairs. Whenever they could give effect to the wishes of a local majority without detriment to the interests of the whole kingdom, the wishes of that local majority should be respected. Whenever a demand of that kind was put forward by a local majority, why should they be out-voted, oppressed, or coerced by others living in other places, under other circumstances, and in other society, who were not affected by the measures oa which they voted ? (Cheers.) Mr Price had mentioned the Welsh Suspensory Bill. Having been introduced inte the House of Commons this session, there was only one Welsh member who raised his voice in protest against the Bill. For a reason which would presently occur—the extreme paucity of Welsh Tory members- it could not well have been otherwise. (Laughter and cheers.) Mr Kenyon opposed that measure, the object of which was to prevent for a limited time the creation of new interests in Church of England bishoprics, dignities, and benefices in Wales and Monmouthshire. How did Mr Kenyon, the single champion of State orthodoxy in Wales, meet that measure ? He said, which nobody would deny, that the Church had done and was still doing a great work in the Principality, and that the progress of that work would be stopped if the Bill be- came law. If they suspended the creation of new interests in bishoprics and benefices, they would suspend the work of the Church in Wales. The sole claim of the Church, according to Mr. Kenyon, to influence and work was drawn from the inspiring effect of national exactions. Put a. penny in the slot, or the Church would stop work. (Laughter and cheers.) He had a far better opinion of the Church in Wales than Mr Kenyon. The Church in Wales was not a dis- tinct national church. It had not been so for a considerable period and although of late years it had done a considerable amount of good work, men of every shade of belief would only too gladly accord that distinction to the Noncon- formist Church in Wales, which ministered to its own people. (Cheers.) It was not. he sub- mitted, qnly the question of national loaves and fishes that kept he Church of England alive in Wates. There was a great deal of honest devotiori and sound principle behind it beyond what Mr Kenyon perceived, but that did not make a sufficiently good case to its being the national Church. Two hundred years ago it might have been said that the Church in Wales was the National Church. Its ministers were of the people, and spoke to the people in their own tongue, and the people understood them. But of jater years, from the time of the accession of the House of Hanover, the whole authority of the English Church in Wales was directed to exclusiveness. Intellect, learning, and piety were a bar to preferment in the Church if they had the taint of the Welsh blood on them. No wonder that the people refused their adhesion to that Church no wonder that the Welsh people gathered in thousands round such men as Howel Harris and Daniel Rowland, and refused submission to the domination of the Welsh Church. (Loud applause.) They found Dean Edwards writing of the Church in Wales, that "for fully 150 years every teacher whose name lived in the hearts of the Welsh people had been almost without exception, a Nonconformist." The work of the Church in connection with the State in Wales, had been a failure. It had not been the national Church; it had not represented the people it had not spoken for the people. He took it that the* time. had arrived when the Welsh Church must eease to be connected with the State. (Applause.) They must insist, and their representatives must insist on their behalf that there should be no longer any connection between the Church and the State in Wales. (Cheers.) He did not believe for one moment that disestablishment would cause the death of the Church. They had only to look at the illus- tration from Ireland to see that quite the reverse had been the fact.. After the Disestablishment of the Church in Ireland the Church government came under the joint control of the clergy and the laity, and the Church had recovered con- siderable activity in Ireland in consequence of that joint control. When the Church was disestablished they would find a similar result following. (Cheers.) He would refer also to the Parish Councils measure, be- cause that too illustrated what he said in opening, that the Government had endea- voured, at any rate, to be a Democratic Govern- ment—he would not say as democratic as he should like it to be, because he feared outside Wales and Monmouthshire he should be con- sidered too democratic, although he believed that there they were pretty well advanced. (Cheers.) They mignt have noticed that there was little or no opposition in the House of Commons to the first reading ef the Parish Councils Bill. Upon that matter, apparently, Lord Salisbury and his followers were not at one, for he remembered very distinctly Lord Salisbury proposing as an alternative to parish councils that they should be parish circuses. (Laughter.) On this occa- sion, at any rate, the sheep had proved wiser than their shepherd, for undoubtedly there was a fair reception given to the Bill in the House of Commons. Local government would confer great advantages upon the rural labourer. It would bring him into touch with his neighbour from the town. They would be able to discuss and organise, and they had seen what a power combination had become in the hands of the worker. Local government would form in the parish an effective bulwark against the autocracy of the squire and the parson. (Cheers.) With regard to the Eight Hours Bill, they had to re- move the misconception that a general eight hours day was intended, though he was far from saying that a general reduction in the hours of labour was uudesirable. It did not follow that reduced hours of labour would necessarily in- volve a reduction of wages. Experience taught that skilled artisans who worked short hours were more highly paid, whilst tailors and bakers, who worked the longest hours, were notoriously under-paid. Proceeding, the speaker said the chairman had referred to the obstruction now being practised in the House of Commons. Did they know that the Conservative party was the self-styled party of law and order ? That was the party that practised the outrageous obstruction in the House of Commons and behaved with singular indifference to the constitutionally-expressed wishes of the majority of their fellow citizens. At the last General Election, quite recently, all through the country the Unionist candidates came round to the people humbly soliciting their votes and their confidence, but the people of the country decided against them. Now they turned their backs upon the people, and had for their boast that the House of Lords would over- rule the House of Commons. The House of Lords WI uld overrule the House of Com- mons once — (loud applause) — but he would no: believe that there was so little manhood or womanhood in the country as to tolerate their wishes being thwarted by a pri- vileged few representing no interest but their own. (Applause) In the contest with class privilege and class monopoly he believed they would make a. good fight. Home Rule would be a lesson to the people of this country. It would teach them to rise in their mighty to strike off their chains, and declare they would be free. (Cheers.) Let thr m have done with the House of Lords, and let the voice of the Lords be heard no more in the land. He submitted that the present Government was quite worthy of their support. He submitted that its one purpose and one aim was to give happiness, peace, and pros- perity to our people. He claimed that they were the true patriotic party, that they should set the example of democracy to all the nations of the I, earth, and that they should base their national greatness upon the only sure foundation, the virtues, the contentment, and the strength of our people. (Loud applause.) I The Rev W. Tuckwell, who further supported the proposition, said it was now nearly four years since he had had the pleasure of addressing a Blaenavon audience. Since that time he had done a great deal of work and a great deal of over-work, but there was life in the old parson yet. (Applause.) If they had not forgotten him he had not forgotten them. He rejoiced that since his last visit his friend and theirs, Sir Charles Dilke, had been returned for the Forest ■ of Dean by an overwhelming majority and if at the next election they at Blaenavon had the opportunity of returning a Radical like Sir Charles Dilke or Mr Reginald McKenna, who was in the forefront amongst the rising young Radical politicians of to-day, he trusted they would do their duty and return him to represent their interests in the House of Commons. (Applause.) He had called him a Radical; he had not called him a Liberal. There was a a difference in the words. There were Liberals and Liberals, but there was no mistake about a Radical. (Cheers.) There were Liberals who were Tories in disguise, who sat on the Liberal side in the House of Commons to forward all Tory measures and to obstruct all Liberal measures. They were not a very large band, but they had discredited themselves and unfor- tunate Birmingham. (Cheers.) Home Rule meant ruin to landlordism in Ireland, and ulti- mately in England. Mr McKenna had told them that the Tories and Unionists reminded him of the Scribes and Pharisees. They re- minded him (the speaker) of two other characters in one of the most beautiful Gospel parables: In their journey from Jerusalem to Jericho they saw everywhere victims among the unemployed, the under-waged, and over-worked lying stripped, wounded, and half-dead. The priest passed over to the other side, and would not see the sufferer. He preserved his well-drilled conscience from reproach by passing by on the other side, and he was a Tory. (Applause.) The Levite drew nearer, looked upon the victim, and was sorry to find him suffering. He drew the cheap sigh of unperforming sympathy. It was getting late, and the robbers might come back. (Laughter.) He had got money in his pocket or in his travel- ling trunk, and he had a wife and children at home. He passed by on the other side and that was a moderate Liberal. (Laughter.) Then there was the Samaritan, who had compassion upon him, who poured in oil and wine, and bore him to a place of refuge; and lthat was the Radical. (Cheers.) As he (the speaker) was passing down a Blaenavon street that day he heard someone say to his neighbour—he thought he must have been a Tory, "Is that the chap that calls himself the Radical parson?" (Laughter.) He had never called himself names: he left that to other people but he might say that he was proud of the name that was applied to him. (Loud cheers.) Should he tell them what made him a Radical ? His father was a strong and influential Tory, and all his family were Tories. He was educated at a Tory public school. He became a Fellow in one of the most Tory colleges in the Tory University of Oxford. He took orders in a Tory Church, but it was that did the business. (Cheers.) His orders brought him in contact with the oppressed, the poor, and suffering. He saw them in London, where he went through the slums of Whitechapel and other districts. He saw something of the hundred thousand rooms, in every one of which a family and two families lived together in a single room. He saw some- thing of the wages earned in those horrible dens. The shirt-making girls worked 12 hours in the day to earn Ilia, and found their own thread. He saw the women who made 150 match boxes for 2td, and the women who made 1,000 paper bags for 3d and found their own paste. He saw something of the horrors and many of the dangers of those unwholesome trades—the phossyjaw," shoddy fever," &c. He passed thence to the Black Country, where he saw the girls doing their horribly hard and unwomanly work for 2s 6d a week. Thence he went to the agricul- tural counties of England, seeing the labourers toiling for wages ranging from 9s to 15s a week. He contrasted all that with what he saw at the I other end or the social scale, the men who had. incomes of £ 30,000, £ 50,000, £ 100,000, and'' .£200,000 a year, incomes which they could not spend, but which they were bound to squander, sometimes in a degrading manner, some- times in sport, sometimes upon the turf, an institution which generated more black- guardism, accumulated more mischief, and produced more immorality than any other insti- tution in the world. (Cheers.) And he asked himself whether those things were irremediable, if they were to accept them as they accepted bad weather or a Tory Government-(Iaughter)-as the decrees of a resistless but inscrutable Provi- dence. On the contrary, he found that they were traceable in every case to bad and selfish laws made by the few in the interest of the few, and that if those laws were altered the evils which they caused would depart with them also. (Cheers.) He urged his hearers to a clear com- prehension of the great political problems of the day, relating to the land, local government, education, religious disendowment, Parliamen- tary reform, and public expenditure. Of those topics, perhaps religious disendowment was most interesting at the present time. He contrasted the past history of the Church in Wales with that of Nonconformity, and expressed the belief that, as in Ireland, so in Wales, the abandonment of invidious exclusiveness would regenerate the Christian efficiency of the Church. He advised them to choose that candidate who was prepared to call himself a Radical rather than a Liberal upon all the subjects to which he had referred. Reform would come through the Liberal party or upon its ruins. They would come most swiftly, ripely, and con- clusively if the men now holding the reins of power understood the greatness of the mission entrusted to them, if the industrial, political, and social regeneration of England should be achieved by the present Parliament, the pre- sent Government, and the present leader. (Loud applause.) The resolution was then put to the meeting, and declared carried unanimously. Mr L. Davies. who was warmly received, pro- posed a hearty vote of thanks to the ladies who nad presided at rfje tea tables, and also to the chairman and speakers. Mr J. Howells seconded, and the proposition was adopted by acclamation: Mr McKenna and the Chairman acknowledged the vote, after which the proceedings termin. ated.
ivir. W. BRACE AT PORTH.
ivir. W. BRACE AT PORTH. A meeting of miners was held on Monday at Porth, the object being to gain support for the Federation. A resolution was passed viewing with dissatisfaction the miserable failure of the sliding-scale during the last 18 years, and desir- ing at the earliest possible date to free the work- men of Monmouthshire and South Wales from the shackles that bind them to a principle which has given them 47 £ per eent reduction during the last 18 months.—Mr W. Brace, of Newport, who was the principal speaker, pointed out that the Federation, with its national strength, had in its power the means of paralysing trade." He contended that the Sliding-scale leaders had either wilfully or ignorantly misled the work- men. It was argued, he said, that workmen could not expect to draw a regular rate of wage whether trade was good or bad, but he contended that if there was a body of men in the country who could say, "We will have no more reduc- tions in wages," it was the miners. Bad trade never interfered with the wages of the colliery managers, clerks, etc., yet the latter were Ucpcu-ijent upon the men who produced the coal u their salaries, for it was the coal produced u their salaries, for it was the coal produced hat paid all salaries. The Sliding-scale sup- iv<>rs contended that wages must follow the selling price of coal, but the Federation claimed c a;, f iii ything, the selling price of coal must the wages of the men. (Applause.) Whether the South Wales leaders liked it or not they would either have to join the Federation or elear out and make way for others. He defied them to take a private ballot-not a ballot by committees—amongst the miners of Wales to- day on the new Federation as against the Federation of Great Britain, and he was pre- pared to stand or fall by such a vote.
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