The North Wales Weekly News

Penmacnmawr Gas Undertaking. Important Ratepayers Meeting. Colonel Darbishire's Expert Advice. There was a represen.tative gathering of owners and ratepayers at a meeting held at the Oxford Hall, Pemmiaenimawr, to' consider the question of the purchase of the Gasworks from the Holy- head and North Wales Gas Company last night (Wednesday). Tihe members of the Council were present, and at the outset Mr. W. D. Jones, the Chairman of that body, was unani- mously voted to the chair. The officials sup- porting him were the Clerk (Mr. T. E. Parry), the deputy Clerk (Mir. J. W. Post), the Surveyor CIIr. R. J. Hughes), and Mr. W. Jones, of the Council Offices. At the outset the Chairman referred to the fact that there wouild undoubtedly be differ- entces of opinion on the question, which, as they all knew, had two sides. He could safely say that they all meant well, and they were all anxious to do the right thing. They had not gathered together to criticise each other, but really to help each other and give as much in- formation as they possibly could, in order to come to a satisfactory conclusion, having in mind the general prosperity and welfare of Pen- maenmawr. He wished to explain the present position of the negotiations between the Coun- cil and the Holyihead and North Wales Gas Cor- poration without the slightest bias or prejudice. 'The negotiations were opened with the Gas Co. about three years ago, and in answer to' en- quiries at the time the Company offered to sell the works at £ 15,000. This the Council deemed altogether out of the question, and said they would consider an offer of .fio,ooo. After con- siderable bargaining, the Company submitted the sum of £ 12,500 to the Council as their lowest price. The Ccuncil then obtained the assistance of two expert valuers, upon whose advice they definitely offered the sum of -ril,ooo for the whole concern, subject to the approval of that meeting and the Government authorities. According to a statement of accounts that the Council had been favoured with, the profits for the past five years were as follows :-1904, ;Si 18s. 6d; 1905, ^486 19s. yd. 1906, Z663 7s. gd 1907, Z4&2 gs. 6d; 1908, Z661 8s. 3d. Now, to buy the works at 1,000 would mean that ;f the works were to continue to make £ 600 profit that the general district rate would probably have to help the gasworks, as the repayment of principal and interest on the loan would be about Z807 for the first year, ;6792 for the second year, and so. on, a little less each year for about 12 years, when the profit itself would pay the principal and interest; then it would begin to go down to the end of the term by about 15 per anraum. If on the annuity system the in- stalment of principal and interest would be £633 for each of the 30 years, the total repay- ment in the former case being ^17,675, and in the latter Zi8,989, no that they would see that if they did not increase their profits St would be some years before they derived much benefit, except indirectly, and by that he meant that they would be lighting their own district with their own gas. They would also be able to at- tain the much-felt want of lighting the promen- ade. The Council were unanimous without ex- ception in their desire to have the works, but the difference was in the price to be paid for them. It was maintained that in after years, if the works were acquired by the Council, by studying the wants of tlie consumers, offering facilities in the shape of gas cookers, &c., and a possible reduction of the price, the rate- payers in general would be benefitted. They were informed that other local authorities who had purchased works were more than satisfied with their bargain. He should like now to utter a few words of caution. It was pretty well known to everyone that a considerable amournt of money would have to be expended on new mains, and there was no doubt but that -they would have to extend them to Dwygyfylchi, and again the present system of lighting would not be considered adequate. Concluding, he said that that day the Council had received the following letter from the Gas Company:- We are now inistruored by the directors of the Holyhead and North Wales Gas Corporation to write to jou further with reference to cor- respondence which has taken place between us upon the matter, and we are instructed to in- form you that the matter of the correspondence was carefully considered at the meeting of the directors on Saturday last, when it was resolved that the directors are prepared to consider any offer which the Council may make for the pur- chase of the gasworks." In view of that letter, said the Chairman, the Council had drafted the following resolution, which wouild be submitted to the meeting:- Owing to the fact that only this morning an important communication has been received from the Gas Corporation, which has placed a somewhat different aspect on the question, the Council now suggest that the owners and rate- payers will suspend their final consideration and judgment on the question. It is further sug- gested that this meeting of owners and rate- payers be adjourned until such time as the Coun- cil are prepared with any additional facts, or .information might be obtained as a result of the communrication from the Gas Company." M,r. Robert Dempster, the late owner^of the Gasworks, spoke bitterly against the Council spending such a sum of money as mentioned for the works. He was paid £7,500 for the con- cern 13 years ago, and the lifetime of gas mains, &c., was about 40 to 45 years, and the gas meters would have to be renewed every 15 years, so that there was really one-third of the 40 gone. with the result that one-third of the £7,500 should be taken off, leaving the price at ^5,000. The speaker went on to criticise the reports of the experts engaged by the Council, and stated that one of them was quite inconsistent in his oonclusfions. His opinion was that the Council would not be acting in the interests of the rate- payers if they offered more than £ 6,000 at the most. If the works were bought at the price .suggested the ratepayers were going to have a millstone around their neckis for generations. He hoped that they would exercise a little patience, and if They did that he felt sure they would get the concern for less than £ 6,000. Replying to Mr. P. H. McClement, MIT. Demp- ster said he did not sell the works direct to the Gas Company. He was very anxious that the Council should own them, but he wanted them to have the works at a fair price to make a profit on them. Mir. David Jones, Vice-Chairman of the Coun- cil, was the next speaker. He said that three things were essential for a watering-place like Pan,maenmawT—good sanitary arrangements, water supply, and good lighting. In the neigh- bourirng towns, of Bangor, Colwyn Bay, Conway, and Llandudno they had been able to relieve the rates by hundreds of pounds with their gas undertakings. He felt strongly that they ought to be the owners of the gasworks in Penmaen- mawr at a fair price. Mr. P. H. McCilement, in a lengthv speech, said that the advice of the experts was the best that could be got in the land. He went on to give the experts'- report, which stated that the pipes were in a bad state, and that it was neces- sary if an adequate supply was to be provided, to re-lay and in some cases enlarge practically the whole of the distributing system. The speaker went on to relate all the facts relating to the first mention of the matter. The valua- tion of both experts agreed at £ 11,000. Mr. Saviille, one of the experts, was well qualified, as he had personal experience of the works when connected with the Company. To prove that the mains were bad, one-sixth of the gas made wras lost. The Gas Company's total revenue from the amount of gas they made was 12,000, and by wodking it Qut they would find that £259 worth of gas was being lost every year. The day would come when they would see what sacrifice, some members of the Council were making for the welfare of the district. The gen- eral price of gasworks throughout the country Was £ 2,000 per million cubic feet of gas made. He was certain that the district would for ever regret that they had not taken the advantage offered to them by the Gas Company if it was at a reasonable price. Mr. R. D. Owen said he was one of the min- ority in the Council on the question. He favoured the purchasing of the works at the lowest possible price. The recognised way of ascertaining the vale of gasworks was to charge a thousand pounds per million feet of gas sold, and 25 per cent, in the form of goodwill. That would bring the price of those works to 47,500. It was a very few works that changed hands at £ 2,000 per million cubic feet of gas sold, and that was what the Holyhead Company were ask- ing. A gasworks in the. hands of a Council was a different undertaking to that in the hands of a private company. With all due respect to the Gas Company, the works could not very well be in a lower condition, and no expenditure had been gone into, unless absolutely necessary. The works in the possession of a public body would have to be raised to the highest possible stand- ard. He would ask the ratepayers to pause be- fore spending this Zii,ooo. They required over- whelming reasons for giving the £ in,000, and he submitted that the reasons were not forthcoming. Mr. R. D. Jones also spoke highly of the experts employed by the Council. At the pre- sent time the Council had to pay £ 15° per an- num for the lighting of the place. He hoped they would consider the question very carefully, and allow it to go back to the Council to see wihat they could do in, the face of the last letter of the Company. The Rev. D.P. Davies asked whether they con- sidered åtrght to follow the old fashion. Elec- tric light was now coming to the front, and would be the recognised, light after some of them bad left this world. Replying 10 Mr. Key, the Chairman said that the offer of the Gas Company concerned the whole of the gasworks with the field adjoining. Colonel C. H. Darbisihire was the last speaker. He said that the advice of the ratepayers was more necessary now, because the Councillors thought differently, While some members advo- cated strongly the purchase' of the works, the re- mainder considered that the price offered was beyond all reason, and that the manner of con- ducting the negotiations had not been such as to arrive at the lowest price the Gas Company W Juld accept. The Council applied to the Gas Company, asking whether the_works were to be bought, and, if so, wfhat wias the lowest price; and on a reply being given that the- Company was willing to sell the undertaking, and that the lowest price that would be taken was £ 15000. Mr. Saville, late managing director of the Holy- head and North Wales Gas and Water Corpora- tion, Limited, and one of the original promoters of the undertaking, mas asked to give his advice in the shape of a report. He (Colonel Darbi- shire) submitted that this ieport was from the gentleman who purchased the gasworks from Mr. Dempster in the first instance, and was responsible for the working of them until he severed his connection with the concern. He advised the Council to make a firm offer of ^'iojooo, and failing the accept- ance of this an ount that the powers as to ac- counts, gas-testing and the opening of roads, should be put in force at once." On Mr Saville's report a. suggestion of £10,000 was made to the Gas Company, who dropped their price of £ 15,000 to Z 12,500. The Council carefully con- r sidered this offer, and on Maroh 3rd, 1908, passed a resolution to the effect thai if the Gas Company would submit an offer of 10,000 consideration would be given' it, and the Clerk drafted a letter in this sense, with the view of ascertain- ing whether, as the Gas Company had dropped their price so easily from C15,000 to ZI,2,500, they would not again drop their price from Z12,500 to Cio,ooo, the price which their late managing director strongly advised should be a firm offer. Unfortunately, the Vice-chairman., J jr. David Jones, who was Chairman of the Gas Committee, did not approve of this resolution, and on his requisition the Chairman summoned a special meeting of the Council on March gth, at which the Clerk's, draft letter was submitted. Four members voted for and six voted against the letter being sent, upon which the Chairman of the Gas CommiJtte>e.YIIr. David Jones-gave notice that at the next meeting of th Council he would move that the resolution, to stand by the suggested price of £ 10,000 be rescinded, and that a firm offer to purchase the works., each side paying their own costs, should be made. At the subsequent meeting on April 7th, Mr. David Jones did not move the resolution of which he had given notice; but the Gas Com- mittee submitted one to the effect that a Gas Works expert, valuer should be approached, with a view to his making a valuation of the works, such as would be acceptable to the Local Gov- ernment Board and the ratepayers. Subsequently Mr. Newbigging, gas en- gineer, of Manchester, was instructed to make a report, so that those of the Council who wished to test wihether the Gas Company would still further reduce their demand below £ 12,500 were, unfortunately, prevented from doing so, because, when Mr. Newbigging's report came it advised an offer of Ziiooo, which suggestion the Council adopted, and, naturally, in his opin- ion, the weakness of the Council in departing from the price of ,Cio,ooo could only have the effect of stiffening the Gas Company in its de- mand for the £ 12,500. (Cheers.) As soon as the Council decided on this meeting he (the speaker) wished to have some independent pro- fessional advice to guide and support him in his views, if they appeared to him correct. He selected Mr. Isaac Carr, of Wdnes, who made gas which was sold under is.. 6d. per 1,000 feet. He could not have got a better man for an in- dependent opinion. My, Clarr advised him that- (a) The buildings are not suited for the purpose, and are too smaller and are not set on the site to the best advantage, (b) The retorts in each bed are of different section, and this irregularity is imoon veeJJient in carrying out renewals, the setting of four retorts is derelict in fact, this word pretty accurately describes the retort bench altogether, (c) The retort house walls are in a damaged condition, and if the present action is allowed to continue will eventually be- come unsafe, (d) The bench of retorts is badly designed. It would be preferable to build an entirely new retort house on the land east of the gasworks plot. (e) The station meter and station governor are both small, (f) The gas- holders are old; the smaller one 40 years; the larger one, nearly as old. was at Holyhead, and when dismantled there lay for two years exposed to the weather, (g) Tbe few gas meters, gas fires, and cookers in stock were all defective. The only meter on the premises that appeared to be in order was one three-light slot, (h) The mains in many parts of the district are small for the work they have to do. They -are laid at far too shallow a depth. At the four places ex- amined they had only is-in. cover and less, whereas they ought to have aft. 6in. to 3ft. cover, (i) The photometer which ought to be at the works was not in working order, (j) Esti- mate of amount immediately required to put the works into proper order, £ 2,585. This does not include early repairs to the large gas-holder, (k) The price of 5s. 6d. per 1,000 cubic feet is far too high. Penmaenmawr stands alone with three other works of similar size charging the same price. (1) The works ought to be bought at a price that will admit of an immediate reduction in price of gas for, notwithstanding the num- ber of years the gasworks have been in existence less than one-third of the householders have be- come consumers, (m) The question of the sup- ply of electricity ought not to be lost sight af- a most important consideration in the matter of gasworks purchase, having regard to the great cheapening of the electric light by the introduc- tion of the new Orsam incandescent lamp. Con- tinuing, the speaker said that if they paid an out- rageous price for these gasworks, it would post- pone .indefinitely the .possibility of itntroduciing electricity here. The capital of the' Holyhead & North Wales Gas and Water Corporation, Ltd., was £ 86,046 in Ci Shares. These shares were quoted wt 7s. 6d. or so per share, reducing the value of the capital in the public estimation to Z34,017, Supposing the ratepayers had fallen in with the Council's offer of £ 11,000 for the Penmaenmawr works, the value of the rest of the works the Company owned would be £ ■23,017—i.e., for gasworks at Holyhead, Llan- ai getflli, Menai Bridge, Pwllheli, Nantlle, Llan- beris (gas and water), Llanfairfeoban, Llanrwst, Bettws-y-Coed, Llandudno. Junction Tar and Ammonical Liquor Works. Now, did it not strike them that if £ 33.017 was the value in too public estimation of all these works, ;6,1 000 was far too. high a figure for the Council to have offered for the works situated here? To appreciate their position they must not forget the heavy expenses they had been put to during the last few years in the eDnAructioiii of the Capel- ulo drainage, Vicarage lane, the promenade, water development, and sundry other,impr--e- ments, which they are slowly but suirely recover- ing from, under the able guidance and superin- tendenoe. of the Clerk and .Surveyor. The rates were now down to 5s. in the C, which included the water rate but they had to contemplate in the immediate future half the cost of a new ele- mentary school in substitution of the one at Glan'rafon, the provision of an isolation hospi- tal, possibly increased water accommodation, and increased co-st of maintenance of the dis- trict roads due to the motor traffic, and sundry other expenses. Surely, with the present high rate of 5s. and the increasing poor rates, and the charges indicated above, it was hardly the time to contemplate incurring such a very heavy burden upon their resources as the purchase of these gasworks would be, even. at an extremely low figure—having Tegard to the large sum that wotald have to be expended in practically re- making the district, reconstructing the buildings and gasholders before long, and putting the g a,- works into proper order. The Chairman then moved the resolution, which he read out at the commencement of the meeting, and this was seconded by M'T. David Jones. It was put to the meeting and oarried by a large majority, only two voting against it.