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Joint Counties Asylum, Carmarthen.
Joint Counties Asylum, Carmar- then. A quarterly meeting of the Committee of Visitors of the Joint' Counties Asylum, Gar- mart'ip-i w held at the Institution oa Thursday in last, when there were pre- oCnt: 1r J. Howard Griffiths, St. David's (in the c^aJr) Mr J. V. Colby, Rhosygil- won; Dr He-.veil Reos, Glangarnant; Rev. Professor D. E. Jones, Carmarthen Mr H. Jones. Davies, Glyneiddan; Dr Lloyd, Adpar Mr J. Lloyd, Penybank Mr W. Jones, Llamlilo; Mr C. M. Williams, Abery.stwith Mr J. Lewis, Mciros Hall Mr Sketch, Pembroke Dock Rev J. Williams, Cardi- gan Dr Williams, Drim Dr Griffiths, Milfcrd Haven together with the Clerk (Mr W. Morgan Griffiths), and the Medical Supt. (Dr. E. Goodall). REPORT OF LUNACY COMMISSIONERS. The annual report of the Commissioners in I' Lunacy was presented, as follows: We have to-day inspected this Asylum, and have seen and spoken with all the patients in residency including those who; are at present lodged at. Job's Well and Jlhydygorse. In the matter of dress and personal tidiners, the condition of the patients wa.s satisfactory. No complaints were made to us calling for mention, and the behavicus was orderly. There are on the I books the names of G57 patients, 329 being men, and 323 women. Of these 29 an changeable to Cardiff Union, 4 to' Cardiff Corporation 30 patients are received under contract frcm Abergavenny Asylum, and three paitients respectively are chargeable to the Machynlleth, Brecknock, and Hampstead Unions; 40 patients are on the private list, I and three are absent on trial. The health of the nstitution is at present good, 19 patients being confined to bed. The Asylum however is overcrowded, there being 26 patients in excess of the proper number, and this over-crowding is especially noticeable in the female hospital sick-room, where the beds 17 in number are occupied, and 12 patients are sleeping on the floor. This condition of things is in our opinion most unsatisfactory, and insanitary. The dinner served to the patients to-day consisted of apple pudding and bread, and wa.s in our judgment insuffi- cient. In this 'connection we may mention that according to the Diet Table this dinner and t,wo soup dinners are given to the patients weekly, and that for tea. and break- fast the meagre allowance of one-third* ounce butter to which. attention was drawn last year has not. been increased. In view of these facts and having regard to the some- wha,t poorly nourished condition of many of the patients we recommend very strongly that the dierta,r ybe improved. At the pre- sent, time, there are 1.5 per cent of the entire patients who are suffering from General Paralysis; 8.2 per cent. Epileptics, and 5.9 per cent are believed to be actively suicidal. The two classes last-mentioned sleep under constant supervision. 52 per cent. usually attend Divine Service of some kind or other on Sunday. 50 per cent. usually attend the associated entertainments 41 per cent, usually walk out weekly or oftener beyond the Asylum estate, while about 3 per cent. are altogether confined to the Airing Courts for exercise. 57 per cent. of the, men, and 61 per cent, of the women are usefully employed. Since the last visit to this Institution by two members of our Boar1, 115 patients have been admitted, 56 discharged, 37 having recovered, and 55 have died. With one exception the deaths were due to natural causes. General paraly- sis accounted for 7.2 per cent, and Phthisis for 23.6 per cent. Post mortem examina- tions followed death in the satisfactory pro- portion of 89 per cent cf the cases bed Bores existed in no less than 12.7 per cent. of the deaths. The exceptional death, that of a man, was due to a fractured thigh, occasioned by a, fall during a scuffle," with a fellow patient. In this a, Coroner's inquest was held. Serious, but non-fatal, casualties were limited to the cases of two women. each of whom accidentally sustained a frac- ture of the leg. As regards zymotic disease, a. male attendant has been attacked with Diphtheria., a nurse with Scarlatina., and a male patient with Eryspelas. No patient has been secluded, but one man and five women have been mechanically restrained for surgical reasons on 69 occasions for 1,529 hours in aJi. At, our visit to-day, we found the Wards and Dormitories in a generally satisfactory condition, the former being for the most part, bright and cheer- ful, and the latter sweet and clean. Some* important improvements have been effected since October last, when this nstitution was visited by two members of our Board. Two substantial external staircases have been pro- vided as exits in case of fire at Rhydygors, but nothing has yet been dene either to pro- vide similar means of escape from the Dor- mitories attached to Female Ward VII, the Hospital 'Ward, and the Laundry, or to is- crrase the pressure of water in the Fire mains. We consider these matters of great importance, and again commend them to the attention of the, Committee. An agree- ment has been entered into between the Asylum Committee and the Town Counel of Carmarthen, by which the Asylum drainage is to be conveyed into the River Towy, and plans for the conversion of the existing laundry into the steam laundry have been passed, but these matters are at present in abeyance in consequence of the disagreement between the representatives of the several counties concerned. We regret to report tha,t little progress has been made with the new Isolation hospital. When it is completed we think that the existing Isolation hospital would form a, very suitable building for the segregation of patients of patients suffering from Phthisis. The staff comprises for day duty 31 men and 30 women. These figures give a proportion of one male attendant to every 10 V men, and one nurse to every 11 women. There are also three attendants cf each sex employed on night duty. Of the total staff 17 per cent of the men and 30 per cent of the nurse shave been in the service of the Asylum under one year, and 53 per cent. of the former and 9 'per cent. of the latter reckon over. fire: years service. One attendant of each sex have been dis- missed tor misconduct, the offence being in the case of the nurse an assault on a patient, which was duly reported to our Board. The Case books and other medical records con- tinue to be very well kept.—Hardinge F. Giffard, E. Marriott Cooke, Commissioners in fiutnacy. THE DIETARY. Referrin gto the report, Dr Griffiths said he was sorry to read the paragaph relating to the dietary. He quite agreed with the Commissioners. The; first duty they had to perform, inside that institution was to look after the unfortunate inrniat s. They cught to appoint a committe, or leave it to the Finance Committee, to go thoroughly into the question, and lie hoped not a day would be lost is looking after the dietary cf the inmates. They should do all in their power to make them, comfortable and to give them good food. He moved that the matter be referred to the Finance Committee, and that the members should meet at an early date to consider the question. Mr J. Lloyd seconded. they tliould deal with the question at once. It was an urgent matter. Dr Griffiths I don't propose the "Finance Committee particularly, but I think we should take steps as soon as possible, to remedy the matter. The Chairman said that although ho agreed with thepirit of the resolution, lC did not quite identify himself with the re- marks made. Ic was an important matter and should be locked into thoroughly. They did not always follow everytring that the Commissioners 'said, end it was possible that they had made a mistake in that matter. It was rather a. grave charge to make against the Asylum. It might of course, be a matter they ought to have looked into earlier. Mr C. M. Williams said he would like to ask for Dr Goodall's opinion on that para- graph first of all He might have something to say in reference to these particular meals. Other meals appeared fo be very ample. If there was anything inadequate in that, Dr Goodall would tell them. Rev J. Williams thought, the matter ought to be settled at once. The Finance Committee could not take action before their report came before the next quarterly meeting. Dr GoodaJl said that the auditor had been I there before the Commsisioners came round. He had made enquiries, and had ascertained the fact that cut of 56 asylums only seven gave 3-ounce of butter, and the rest. half-an- ounce of butter. Twenty four asylums gave soup twice weekly out of about 70, and the others added .pudding to it. To add on the extra butter to make half-an-ounce would mean, JE219 a year, and the increase in giving puddisg with the soup—he would suggest suet pudding as most economical-would be JE78. making a, total of £297. Mr C. M. Williams thought they ought to allow the Supt. to increase the' food as re- commended, and that he. shov.'d prepare a new and adequate dietary taUe to be sub- mitted to the Finance Committee. Professor Jones supported the resolution. There were several little things which per- haps they ought to consider, raid which they did not like to enter into and mention in public. He fancied it would be very much better for Da Gooda-11 and a committee to consider1 the whole question, because it was a very serious charge which had been brought against the asylum. The Commissioners had stated that, the condition of things in their opinion was unsatisfactory and insaintary. Well, nothing could be more serious than that. To add one-third ounce of butter to present amount was easily done, but he thought they ought to consider the whole report; as given, to them. Therefore he strongly supported the prop ■ al of Dr Griffiths. Dr Griffiths: A special meeting of the Finance Committee could be called to deal with the' matter. The Chairman advised the members to be careful in discussing the report. They always had some items in the report, which they did not like. If they spoke at any length on the matter they might make a mistake. It was the duty of the Commissioners to find fault, and to pick out everything that, required remedying, and their remarks there might go out and make matters: more serious than the Commissiones really meant. In the para- gra.pl where they say the building is insani- ta,ry, he: was told they only referred to one ward. Dr Goodall Yes; in the female ward. The Chairman Therefore I think we should be a little bit, careful, as a wrong construction might be put on our remarks. Professor Jones said that it. was: not their report. Dr Williams said that such reports were nothing new. The same quantity of butter had been given in years gone by. The Com- missioners only consisted of one doctor, and they l:4',d three doctors: there. He did not think there was really anything serious in that, complaint or Dr Goodall or Dr Gibbon would have brought the question before them. Mr C. M. Williams proposed that Dr Goodall should increase the quantity of the butter at once, and that he should make out a new dietary table and forward a copy of it to each member. He was the only man who could help them. There was no cause for alarm, and some remarks had been made to lead the public to think those pepole had been ill-treated. All he had to say was that they were treated far better than a good many outside. Dr Howell Rees seconded. Mr Sketch said that, would avoid calling a special finance committee, and he agreed with Mr Williams. Dr Griffiths said they would leave it to Professor Jones to call a special meeting. Professor Jones You leave it to me, and you wont be called to a, special meeting (laughter). On a division five voted for the, amend- ment, and seven for Dr Griffiths' motion, which was declared carried. Mr J. Lewis ipropcsed that the butter be increa ed to half an ounce. Mr C. M. Williams seconded, and the mctio-T was agreed to. ADDITIONAL ACCOMMODATION. Dr Howell Rees moved that a sub-com- mittee be appointed to enquire and report upon (a) the utilization of any portion of the Asylum buildings as wards for the accommo- dation of private patients, or as an alterna- tive (b) the building of an additional wing for private; patients, and what land, if any, available, and the probable cost of land and buildi igs for providing requisite .accommo- dation."—Dr Re:es was proceeding to give his reasons for placing the motion on the agenda, when he was interrupted by Mr J. Lloyd with the remark tfvat they were all in sympathy with the. resolution. Mr C. M. Williams The time has now come when Mr Lloyd and Mr Davies should be suspended in order that a. speaker might be allowed to go on (laughter). Mr John Lewis seconded. Mr Lloyd supported, and moved that the question be now put." The resolution was carried, and the follow- I ing committee were appointed Chairman, Dr Rees, Dr Lloyd, Dr Williams, and Dr 4 Griffiths, RUBBER TYRES NOT WANTED. Dr Howell Roes ha,d the following motion in his name on the agenda: That the wheels of the asylum omnibus be rubber tyred." Dr Rees said that since placing the mo on on the agenda., he had ascertained that the omnibus was not so frequently used for the conveyance of patients to and from the Asylum as h had imagined. Many unions sent their patients in private convey- ances, and under the circumstances, he did not fed justified in asking the ratepayers to cover the wheels with rubber for the use of the Committee. But. that, did not alter his opinion that the. omnibus was an aggravating irritable conveyance to ride in, and he would be (prepared to subscribe towards the rubber tyres for the sake of the' committee. Dr Griffiths said he was glad the motion had been withdrawn. PAUPER LUNATICS. Mr C. M. Williams moved the following resolution That, the Asylum Clerk do pre- pane forthwith a. return showing the number cf pauper lunatics resident at the asylum _c: -=L&¡,r.I>'I"I'i!'L; 'J": ,1'
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Death of the Rev. T. Thomas,…
Death of the Rev. T. Thomas, of Goodshaw. INTERESTING BRIEF MEMOIR. CONNECTED WITH CARMARTHEN. The i?ossendale Express" of Wedues- day, October 29th, says — We regret to have to record tho death of the Rev. Thomas Thomas, of the Goodshaw Baptist Chrlpel, which took place on Monday f rei oon, about 10 o'clock. Mr Tko:-mis had been a sufferer from a weak heart f >r a long time—so rniich so that he could not walk up even a slight gradient without having to make frequent stoppages to take breath. The rev gentleman was born at Caerphilly, about seven miles from Cardiff, on the 6th February, 1849, and was therefore 53 years of age last birthday. He was educated at Bristol College for the Baptist ministry, but prior to entering college, lulfilled preaching engagements every Sunday in the neigh- bourhood of Cardiff for a polled of three or four years. The first church over which he had the pastoral charge was the English Baptist Church ¡:t Carmarthen, though be- fore accepting that he had been offered several churches,which he had declined, and during his student's days he preached regu- larly at three churches on Communion Sundays. While he was at Carmarthen- but not until he had been there about two years—he was married to the lady who survives him, and now mourns his 1088- Miss Myria Janet Stephens, the third daughter of Mr George Stephens, the Governor of the County Prison for Carmar- then, Cardigan, and Pembroke. After labouring successfully for a period of five years at Carmarthen, Mr Thomas accepted an invitation to become the pastor, of the Goodshaw Baptist Church. This was in 1884. Had he lived till the last Sunday in November he would have completed 18 years' ministry at Goodshaw. The last time he occupied his own pulpit at Goodshaw was on Sunday evening week last, and on the evening of the same day he had preached at Sunnyside Baptist Chapel for the Rev E M Hunter, it being the occasion of the Missionary Anniversary Sunnyside Chapel, it may be mentioned incidentally, was originally an off-shoot from the Goodshaw Baptist Chapel, but this was many years before Mr Thomas's time. It is a coinci- dence that the last sermon that'Mr Thomas preached was on his favourite theme of foreign missions, ou behalf of which he made a strong and earnest appeal. But he was earnest in all he undertook to do, and this was a trait in his character that will cause him to be long and affectionately re- membered. His medical attendant was Dr Compston, of Crawshawbooth, under whose care he had been for about two years, being afflicted with a weak heart. In addition to this, dropsy set in about five weeks ago, and it was evident to those near and dear to him that he was seriously declining. Still no anxiety was felt that he was in imme- diate danger. Even on the morning of his death Mrs Thomas was with him only a short time before he died, and had not the least apprehension of a fatal attack. She had not left him to go downstairs many minutes when a sound was heard from him which caused her and her daughter, Miss Thomas, to go upstairs again, and they were shocked to find him dead. Mr Thomas leaves a widow and a son and daughter- the two latter being Mr Thomas Cuthbert Thomas, aged 21, and Miss Edith Mary Thomas, aged 18. The first-named only in June last obtained a situation as junior clerk for the Surveyor of Taxes in t Inland Revenue Oiftce, Deansgato, Man- chester, and the news of his father's unex- pected death had to be telegraphed to him. The deceased gentleman through the heart affection referred to had latterly had to have assistance in the pulpit, and was looking forward to having a fortnight's holiday in Wales. But as is so often demonstrated, Man proposes, and God disposes." So far as Mr Thomas himself was concerned, however, he would have been the last man in the world to complain. He was a sincere and clevDut. believer in what he preached to others, and lived a truly Christian life, so that it may be said of him that he was ready when the summons came. In example as well as in precept he was a model Christian, and his memory will long be revered. Politically speaking, Mr Thomas was an ardent Radical, and advocated his views with a leasonableuess and force of argu- ment which carried conviction with it. He was strongly opposed to Ahe Government Education Bill, and was present at one or two of the recent meetings held under the auspices of the Rossendale Free Church Council. The funeral takes place at the Goodshaw Baptist Chapel on Thursday. It is hoped that the funeral service will be conducted by the Rev Charles Williams, who is at present in London, but in the event of his inability to be present, the last rites will probably be performed by the Rev F Overend, of Bacup.
.The Law on Slot Gas Meters.
The Law on Slot Gas Meters. AN IMPORTANT APPEAL. In the King's Bench Division of the High Court of Justice on Friday the case of Edmondson v Longton Corporation came before the Lord Chief Justice and Justices Wills and Channell, sitting as a Divisional Court, and raised the question whether when money had been stolen from a slot gas meter, the consumer was liablo to be called upon to pay for the gas consumed over again. The gas company, it appeared established a system of automatic slot metes which were placed in the houses of con- sumers freo of charge by the servants of the Corporation, the meters remaining the I property of the Corporation. The seivants ot the Corporation kept the keys and opened the slot boxes periodically to take out the money, and on one occasion the box in the appellant's house was found be empty although there ought to be 19s in it. The appellant was ordered to pay by the justices on tha ground that he was responsible for the contents of the box. It was contended on behalf of the appellant that he could not be held responsible unless negligence were proved against him. It appeared that the money had been stolen from the box. The Lord Chief Justice, in delivering the judge- ment of the Court, said he was of opinion that the contract in these cases entitled a consumer, on placing the required coin in the slot, to a supply of gas. It was in the nature of a ready money transaction, and the consumer could not be called upon to pay for the gas twice over. The appeal was accordingly allowed with costs.
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Joint Counties Asylum, Carmarthen.
chargeable to- the Poor Law Unions through- out the. three counties adid the boroughs of Carmarthen, Kidwelly, and Haverfordwest on the 1st day of January in the years 1866 to 1876, distinguishing the counties and the boroughs to which they belong. Such return to be printed and forwarded by him to each mem. ",1' of the Committ0 of Visitors." Mr J. Lloyd You want the pauper luna- tics for the three boroughs: separate from the counties. Mr Williams: That is my resolution. The Chairman: It seems these figures are not available a,t the asylum. Professor Jones: Has the motion been seconded ? Dr Williams: I will second. Professor Jones What are you seconding Dr Williams Oh, something about returns (laughter). Professor Jones said he had never seen a better instance of history repeating itself than he found in that resolution. On the pages of ancient history (laughter), they found that, a great deal over 3,000 years ago there dwelt an. old despot in Egypt, who moved a resolution, and managed, to pass- it, that the poor Israelites were to make bricks wtihout straw (laughter). That was pre- cisely the position in which that resolution sought to place poor Mr Reed. Mr Williams How do you know ? Professor Jones I do know. It is no secret. Mr J. Lloyd Of course not. You (Mr Williams) can see that for yourself if you like Professor Jones: If Mr Williams was bett r acquainted with the figures of the asylum he. would know, and would never d.re.am of putting such a, resolution on the agenda. In the year 1896 the question arose between the County Councils and Borough Councils, and we had a hand in settling the dispute. I went carefully through the books three or four times, a.nd can say from the notes taken that the figures cannot, be got here. They were not. entered separately and were mostly entered for the unions. Even, the County lunatics were. not. entered sepa- rately. If you take the figures as entered in the books, we shall lose nothing in Car- marthenshire, but I don't know about Pem- brokeshire. If they took Cardiganshire for at 3 £ ast seven years, all pauper lunatics coming from Cardiganshire were not dis- tinguished, and a, good many came, from Pembrokeshire. Take the Narberth Union. I believe that half the Narberth Unon is in Carmarthenshire, and half in Pembrokeshire a,nd for seven or eight years all the pauper lunatics belonging to the Narberth Union arc put down as belonging to Pembrokeshire So you can see, I should be, sorry to ask Mr Reed to do exactly what that old cruel fellow that dwelt, long ago asked the Israelites to do (laughter). We are going to ask Mr Reed to do a thing for which he has not got the material. He can't do impossibilities. I for I one should certainly object, to Mr Reed try- ing to adjust, these figures from his own imagination. It was absurd to ask him., and had Mr Williams gone through the figures 11 years ago he would never have taken the responsibility to put. it on the agenda. Mr C. M. Williams Mr Williams can answer for himself. Mr J. Lloyd said he would second Professor Jones. He had been in the room with Mr Reed and the figures he could give were of no practical value. He did not think it right that they should put their officials about to satisfy the whim and caprice of any member when the books of the asylum were open for inspection. Rev J. Williams said that if Mr Reed found it impossible, be could report, to the committee, and they should ta.ke it as final. Dr Griffiths: Are we to receive Mr Reed's report as final ? I never heard of such a thing in my life. There is some deep secret about, this. Rev J. Williams: If he is able to do it, we should compel him. Mi Sketch suggested that, Mr Reed be asked to come into the room. He was sure Mr Williams would accept, that. Mr C. M. Williams It is an extraordinary action to ask any official if he can, do a, thing. All we ask is what return: he. can supply from his books. I strongly object to Mr Lloyd busying himself in my affairs. Mr H. Jones-Davies I move that the question b£1 now put (laughter). After some further discussion. Mr Davies insisted tha,t, the question of having an inter- view with Mr Reed: should be put to the meeting, and it was decided to call Mr Reed in. In answer to the Chairman, Mr Reed said he could not: comply with the resolution. He had not. got the figures on his books. Several members said that wa,s an end of it. Mr C. M. Williams This is more like the institution itself than a, committee, room to- day, with the unruly conduct, of certain members (laughter). Mr H. Jones-Da,vies I rise to a. point of order, sir. This is not right (la.ughter). The Chairman Do you desire to ask Mr Reed any further questions. Mr C. M. Williams' then asked certain questions, and Mr Reed replied that he could not distnguish between counties and boroughs Mr C. M. Williams said that a definite re- turn had been compiled by the late Dr Hearder. He tnought they should ask for the returns as they stood failing that. Dr Griffiths I move that after hearing Mr Reed p. reply we do not ask for tho renlv. Professor Jones I second. We: are only wasting money and wasting time (hear, hear) The Chairman said he did not intend to vote, but all possible information should bo given to members of tho Committee by the omciLls of the institution. Every member who wa.s: paintaking enough to go into figures cught to. be assisted. Mr J. Lloyd I think the Chairman should be impartial, and not take 0:10. side more than the other. Mr Williams: He is not. Mr Lloyd Yea he is taking ye-tir Mr C. M. Williams said that, the Chairman had acted very partially. He had seen fine exhibition cf feeluig with regard to his motion. As a, member of 11 or 12 years standing lie had been refused information which had ben vouchsafed to all other mem bers wheiii they asked for it without placing a noti-et on the agenda. He rsked a, certain quiection, and Mr Lloyd busied himself about it. nd asked the Clerk if they could'do it. He objected to any member busying himself about his information. Their business was to ask Mr Reed to iprcpare whatever infor- mation he had from his books. When Dr. Griffiths intended going in for revised quotas he scat, to the clerk for information without getting the, sanction of the committee. But he w i delighted he had asked for the infor- mation in order to see the inner workings of that little party. Professor Jones had giTen: them a, sermon on a man who lived 3,000 years ago, and another kept, call- ing him to order. It was degrading to the committee that they should go on in that way. They should have some respect for the dignity of the Committee representing the three counties. Mr J. Lloyd rose to a point of order. Mr C. M. Williams: The very same thing again. Mr Lloyd ca.n't. help it. I protest against this conduct, and if members do not look out some, people will not be allowed to say anything, but will be cried down, and the conduct shown will keep everybody away. On a. division seven voted for the amend- ment, and four for the original motion. THE REPRESENTATION. The following resolution by Mr C. M. Williams was then considered: That the joilit counties having failed (notwithstand- ing -.ie,a,t,cl discussions and negotiations ex- tending over several years past) to arrive at a settlement, of the following disputes, viz. (a) the adjustment of the additional capital in respect of the Asylum building and fur- nishing account inclusive of accrued interest by the Counties of Carmarthen and Pem- broke consequent upon t-hie, merging of the Boroughs of Carmarthen and Kidwelly in the County of Carmarthen, and the, borough of Har erfordwest in the county of Pembroke, respectively, for the purposes of the, Lunacy Acts (b) As to the bcsis ulpion which the representation of the three counties on the Joint Commit tee should be fixed; it is desi- rable, in order to effect a settlement of the said disputes, that, the suggestion of the Commissioners in Lunacy, viz., that the same be referred to arbitration be; forthwith acted upon, and failing a. mutual agreement on the part of the respective counties as to the] nomination of an arbitrator, application be made to the L.G.B. to appoint one, and that. e Clerk be instructed to take all steps necessary to give full effect to this resolution." Mr J. Lloyd protested against the first resolution. Mr C. M. Williams said that, no member could enter a protest until tre resolution was proposed. Mr Lloyd: I have a, right to protest. Mr C. M. Williams: I am sorry for th. ex-chairman of the Carmarthenshire County Council. He was. proceeding to move his motion, when Mr Lloyd rose to a point of order. They could not accept a resolution of that. kind. Mr Williams had been trying to get the County Couscil to pass a resolution which was identical with that. If they '.passed that resolution they would go on to eternity in the same way, and as long as Mr Williams could come there they would be no nearer the goal than at present. The Chairman: You can ask my ruling. As far as I can see. it is in order. Professor Jones I rise; to a point of order on another ground. If they turned to the report, of the meeting in January they would would find that there was another resolution on the same subject. Several members now left, and Dr Griffith rising from his chair exclaimed, "I must go now. I can't stay longer to los emy train." However, it was pointed out to him that another train went after 5 o'clock, and Dr Griffith remained. Mr C. M. Williams: It is these men who monopolise the time. Professor Jones said that without rescind- ing the resolution referred to, they could not accept the present motion. The Chairman I call on Mr Williams to move his resolution. Mr C. M. Williams Having regard to the conduct of the mlember-- The Chairman I hope you will avoid any- thing offensive (heat, hear). Mr Williams I have endeavoured to act as an honourable member in face of the, lowest, conduct. I have witnessed for a long time. It has been done deliberately by two or three people who are trying to disturb everything. The Chairman: I must ask you to proceed with the resolution. Mr, C. M. Williams said there was no occasion to go into the matter. The whole thing had been before them so often that he would simply move the resolution as they stood. Dr Lloyd seconded. Dr Griffiths .thought that as several of tjte members had left, they should defer the question. Mr C. M. Williams If these gentlemen had I-een a little more orderly, and not wasted the time (cries of Order, order "), we should have finished. I am not respon- sible. Mr Sketch thought, it should be postponed Mr C. M. Williams: There is no guarantee that tiiere won't be a repetition of the con- duct next time. Mr Sketdh Mr Williams could not have seen behind him or he would have known that. I was standing. Mr J. Lloyd Excuse his back (laughter). Mr C. M. Williams, after some discussion, said he was prepared to move his motion, but aftei what had been said, and seeing that, several members had loft, he was quite willing to defer the question. Mr J. Lewis thought it would be a good thing to get it out. of the way altogether. The question was continually raising bad feeling and friction, and he for one, would like to see the question settled one way or the other. He would like to see it settled on a. fair basis. He did not think that any member for Carmarthenshire wished to take the slightest advantage, (hear, hear). He would never vote to take any advantage of Pembrokeshire or Carmarthenshire. If they had anything to pay, they should do it honourably. Dr Griffiths said he had taken an active part in the question, and voted against Mr Williams. Now he felt, that the time had arrived that that question should be settled. They did not wish to take advantage of Car- diganshire. Pembrokeshire was paying too muioh money at present. He would support the motion, and hoped they would discuss it without, feeling on either side. Mr Sketch supported the resolution. Look'^g at the serious aspect. as it affected the institution, it was time the question was disposed of. When anything was moved for the benefit. of the institution, one county objected, and the other county objected. Thie I time had now arrived to settle; the difficultv. 4 Ho was pleased to see they were meeting it, in the spirit of fair-play. There, was nothing to be, kept, back, and if there was anything to be, kept back the sooner it was turned out the better. Let the institution be carried on oil fair and honourable lines. Mr J. Lloyd opposed the m^ion, and in the first, place because it was superfluous. There was no quarrel between the counties and. that Committee, and in the second place because a, misleading statement was made. The resolution contained a suggestion of the Lunacy Commissioners, which they never made. They never stated that. the question of the merging of the boroughs should be re- ferred to arbitration, but they suggested the quest"on of the quotas should. He objected to section A" of the resolution. It was childish of Cardiganshire, to try and evoke the assistance of the. other two counties with reference to a grievance which did not exist. They did not admit, a grievance. Why did not Cardiganshire put. the machinery in motion, and not talk about arbitration to help them out of the difficulty which they thought. existed ? He was asking for the ruling of the Clerk as to whether it was a, matter for that committee or the County Councils. The Clerk When the matter comes up for settlement the respective counties will be the litigants. I can't say that there, is anything out of order in a recommendation. Professor Jones It it a recommendation? I do,rt think so. The Clerk I take, it that it, will have no further effect than a recommendation. Professor Jones Then it ought to say so. It looks as if it will settle the matter finally. The Clerk It does not settle the matter finally. It does not take you one step- further than you, are -now only it empha- sises what you have done. Mr H. Jones Davies seconded Mr Lloyd. Professor Jones said that perhaps the be.st plan would he; to' go to the Local Govern- ment Board to dissolve partnership. Mr Williams We have our position. Professor Jones Yes, and so do, we. We I. know our position quite well. It can be done. Dr Griffiths asked Mr Williams- to move B separately. Mr Williams said it would make no differ- ence. Mr Sketch said he heard some-thing said abor" dissolving partnership, but only that morning he had heard it mentioned that the counties should join for technical purposes. Professor Jones We may be compelled to resort, to that. Mr Sketch I think that had better be left out. Mr Williams- said that Professor Jones- had made use of statements for which he could hardly find words to express without sayir g something very very hard. Profe.sscr Jones: When ? Mr Williams. Must we move the suspen- sion of three members of the House ? (laughter). Profesvsor Jones I want to know to whom. Mr Williams, (still standing): Oh, I am in no hurry. I am quite, willing to stand he.rer. (Professor Jones shortly afterwards sat down) Mr Williams continuing, sa.id he had hoped the Committee would be in a proper frame of of mind to consider the motion in a proper way. Professor Jones: Question. Mr Williams I wish you knew how to conduct yourself. You talk about Christl- airty and morality. It is time to put a stop fco this. This Committeei is brought into (contempt by the conduct, of some members here. They behaved in such a way as to prevent this resolution going on. I believe I have said less than anybody here to-day (laughter). Mr H. Jones-Davies I rise to a. point, of order. The question should be now put. Mr Williams has no right to say all these things The motion was then put, and for the re- tention of paragraph "B" there voted Messrs J. Lloyd, H. J. Davies, J. Lewis, S. B Sket. Professor Jones, and Dr Griffiths. For the motion, Mr C. M. Williams and Dr Lloyd. Paragraph "B" was then adopted. Mr Sketch: Let us add the- reeommendac- tion the County Council that the Local Government. Board be asked to appoint an arbitrator. The matter then dropped.