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By tlin Way j *** * * !

Eisteddfod at White Mill.


Carmarthenshire County (jo…


Carmarthenshire County (jo unci I and the Sanatorium. COMMITTEE OF ENQUIRY AT CARMAR- THEN. MAJORITY RECOMMEND ADOPTING THE ACT. A meeting of the Carmarthenshire County Council was held at the Carmarthen Guild- hall on Wednesday, at 12.15 p.m. Mr W N. Jones, Tirydail, was elected to the chair in the absence of the chairman. There were atlso present: Sir John Williams, Bt., lhe Ptas; Lieut-Gem. Sir James Hills-Johnes,, j V.C, G.C.B., Dolaucothi; Mr Joseph Joseph, Llangeninoh; Mr H. Jones-Davies, Glyn- eiddan Rev. jl. H. Jones, Llangemdeirne; Mr D": L. Jones, Derlwyin; Mr J. Johns, Par cethin; Mr Mervyn Peel, Danyrallt; Mr W. David, Llanellly; Mr T. Barrett, Glynwalis; Col. Morris, Ammanford; Mr D. Evans, Mauorda.f; Rev. Prof. D. E. Jones, Carmar- then Mr W. Malbon Davies ,Glansawdde Mr D. Davies, LLandebie; Mr R. H Williams, Ciilycwm Mr Roberts. Llanelly Mr T. E. Brigstocke, Carmarthen; Mr D. Williams, Llanybyther Col. Lewes, Llysnewydd; Mr D. Davies, Rhiblyd; Mr John Rees, Dol- gwm; Mr J. W. Gwyinae-Hughies, Tregeyb; Mr James Philliips, St. Clears; Mr B. John, LLlandissilio Mr John Lloyd, Penh yank Mr Neville, Llanelly; Mr Greville, Llanoui; Mr G. E. Bowen, Burry Port; and the Clerk (Mr J. W. Nicholas). The object of the meeting as set forth in the agenda was to enquire— 1. Whether the Isolation Hospitals Act should be applied within the County to Pulmonary Tubrculosis; and (2) Whether the Council should eetab- Fsh an Isolatioin' Hocpital for the use of patients from the County of Carmarthen, [ suffering from Pulmonary Tuberculosis. The Clerk explar,ned that the County Coun cil had in April, 1905, resolved to vote a E500 grant a sum of £ 130 a year to the Sana toriuin at Al'itymynydd; but the Local Government Board had pointed out that the Council could not legally do so except the adopted the Isolation, Hospitals Act, 1893 and declared the county am "infected area." The enquiry was held to determine whether the County Council should do so There were several gentlemen from var- ious parts o the, county ready to give evidence Mr J. Johns asked if the members of the Council could be allowed to ask the witnesses any questions. Mr D. L. Jones: You can cross-examine them. Prof. Jones: We had better appoint one me,nybe,r to cross-examine them. I think Wf had better appoiint Mr J. Johmis. The Chairman: We had better leave the members free. Mr J. Johns (to Professor Jones): You had better take care of yourself. Dr Bowen Jones them made a speech in favour of the Sanatorium. He argued that consumption killed more people than all the other infectious diseases put together; and yet although the public bodies spent a good deal of money in comlbatting the other diseases, they spent none at all in fighting tuberculosis. He said that 70 to 80 per cent of tb< se who were treated in einatoria were cured but it was not so much the curative as the educative value of the institution on which he relied. Mr H. Jones Davies cross-examined Dr. Jones at considerable length. There were 63 public sanatoria in the country?—Yes. Do you consider this a public sanatorium? —Yes, certainily. It is for the, poor. What about the representation ? Do you consider it public?—The rules state accord- ing to the subscriptions given, it is to be controlled. Dr Bowen, Jones was unable to say how mamy people who died from consumption in Carmarthenshire had contracted the disease elsewhere, and hadcome home to die. He thought that the mortalllity from consump- tion had heeii greatly reduced by the reduc- tion in all other forms of infectious diseases which predisposed people to consumption. What is your opinion of houses in that area (the Carmarthen, Rural District)?—My Council is improving them very much. One of the first things I did when I became the medical officer was to get them to adopt buiiiLdlilng hye Iai,s an order to inipr -o the housing accomodation. I felt it was very rife. Do you thiinik at was very rife on account of bad sanitation?—Certainly wtith better sanitation it would lvoit be so rife. Mr John Jones: Do any sanitary houses exist iin that area? Dr Jones: A good many. Mr D. Davies, Rhiblyd, asked if the Noti- fication of Tuberculosis had been adopted in Carmarthen Rural District. Dr Jones said that notices had been sent out asking the, medical men to notify it voluntarily; but it had not been done very effectively. He considered consumption to be infectious, but not contagious. It was not very easy to define the difference. In- fectious diseases might be caght by emana- tions from the patient; but contagious dis- eases were those like small pox which could be taken ty inoculation. He wished to point out tha,t to deolare Carmarthenshire^ an "in- fected area" would finable the Council to COin- tribute towards the Sanatorium, but would not compel It hem to have tuberculosis notified as other infectious diseases were. Sir John WilMiiams asked Dr Jones several questions. He asked if dt were not a fact that a ilarge number of Carmarthenshire young ,men were clerks, shop a'ssistants, and millibmen in London.. Dr Jornes had no doubt of this. He coud not say whether a large number of them conltiracted consumption in London,, and re- turned to Carmarthenshire to die. Isn't that the reason, why the death-rate in London is comparatively low because a large number of young people contract the disease there and go home?—Yes. What is the percentage of cures did you s,ay?-70 to 80 at Frimley. How many of these are living at the end of one year of thossupposed to have been, cured?—75 per cent. At the end of two years, how many are alive?—I cannot tell you, Sir John, willicit looking at the table. Cain you tell me what percentage are alive at the end of five years?—The thing is neiw more or less. We have not watdhed cases for five years. What fs the duration of life in consump- tives of the middle class-amolllgt the well-to- do —Two or three years. Have you the statistics of Dr Theodore, Williams, who is a great authority on, the, subject?—I have not seen them. You are not aware that he states that the average duration amongst the fairly well-to- do is eight yiars?—No, 'I am not. I want to know what the duration of (life is likely to be in these cases at the end of one yjar.—75 per cent. You oannot telil me how many are ailive in two or three years?-LNo I cannot tell you. Sir John Williams asked if it the histc.ry of a case often was that person got ill, then got much 'better for a considerable time and then collapsed. Dr Bowen, Jones said that the patieiyts who had been at Friimley went hack to work. You and I know very well that there are men who have been, tuberculous at the age of 19 and lived to the age of 70; but isn't it usual thing that after being in they progress and get oil, very well for five or six months, and then they get a bad attack?-Tlion they might ibreak dowiu Mr Mervyn Peel asked if statistics did mot show that 50 per cent. more people died from consumption in these three counties than in aU the rest of iEmojhmd and Wales. Dr Jones said that that the report oi the Registrar General showed that. flrJ. Johns: Wotulld you consider these counties a good pdace for am, isolation, hospital Dr Bowen Jones: Yes; you the hos- pital where the disease■ w. Mr James Philips: Would you consrder it kindness to take people here and then send thorn back to their homes. iDr Jones: Yes; we teach them how to take care of themselves. You say that the cause of the disease is bad sanitation and insanitary dwellings?— We will get them to open their windows and clean out their rooms. You could do that without sending them to a saniat01,i 11,111 ?—They would not believe it uMtil they are taught. If a doctor tells them to open the window tliey think lie is a crank. They say "He did me no good. He gave me no medicine. He only told me to open the window. My point is that it is our duty to get aid of .the cause of the disease, and that then we get rid of the disease?—We are re- moving it as fast as we can but it will take years and years and millions of money. The money which is spent on the AUty- mynydd institution could be much better spoilt in educating people at their own homes?—There is nothing to educate them in their own; homes. It lis like going to school to be taught. We can get doctors to toacli them at their own homes, as we get people to teagii other sciences?—The doctors are Ibusy treating thoir patients. They have lno time to teach the peopdo. Mr James Phillips: We can employ men to do it. By a couple of other questions, Mr James Phillips elicited the fact it-hiat after a certain point consumption might be regarded as in- curable. Sir John WiJilliams asked what was the usual time for patients to, ibe in a sanatorium. !Dr Jones said that it depended on circum- stances—anything from three to nine months What is the usual tame t Three to six months. Is that so?—It depends entirely. Isn't that irat,her 'low?—I shouild imagine that the longer they rem-aiiin, the better. In .e course of the year forty cases would pass through. -In, twenty of them the dis- ease would be arrested?—I hope so. Supposing there are 600 cases of phthisis in the district, the cures effected would be practically ,nil?-These cases would be a.H the means of spreading information far and wide. -In the matter or cures then, th,a sanatorium would be of no value?—I do not say that. Comparativedy, very little?—As time goes oni, ajul it is successful, I hope the sanatorium willl He enlarged, and that another sana- toriumwiilllbe built to relieve the pressure. You think that its real value is educa- trional ?-lts principal value is educational more tihani -any thing in this part of the coun- try. I think we are behind the times. In answer to Mr D. Davies (Rhyblyd), Dr Jones said that the District Council did not recommend him to appear there that day. They did not recommend him to do anything; as a rule he had to inlitiate all his own work. The Chairman: You are in a very happy position doctor. In answer to Mr David, Dr Jones said that aln, insanitary house might be rendered salni- taoi-y by the tenant in some cases. In other cases, however, the assistance of the land- lord would be required. There were, for in- stance, houses of which the windows were not made to open. In amswerjfco Sir John Williams, Dr Jones said that iiii did not know whether con- sumption had 'been steadily decreasing for 36 years. It had undoubtedly decreased greatly within recent years. Dr Jones: I caninot say. Sir John Wiilliams asked if it had decreased in a larger degree since sanatoria had been established. Dr Jones said th'at Dr Bulstrode had de- clined to give an opinion 0,11 that point; but the decrease had been more 'rapid of liate. iMr J. Johns: To what do yon attribute the decrease?—To the better knowledge of the public for one thinig. For one thing there is a igreat diminution. in the- number of infec- ti;(ni-, diseases which pred/ispose to tuber- culbsis. Mr J. Johns: You admit that it is due to the spread of education? lDr Jones: Yes; that is what I want you to do—to educate them at AMtymynydd. Mr D. ,R. Jones, a yellow metal and a copper workr, aaid a member of the Llanelly Urlban District Council, said that he bad 'been asked 'by 250 of his fellow workmen to appear there to support the proposal. He was cross-examined Iby several members at some length. 11VIr David asked what Mr G. R. Sims had sa,id of Llanelly. 'Did he not say that it wa3 the finest town he had ever visited—wtilh the big garden to the houses and the back lanes separating the streets and the ope nspaces? The witness agreed. Mr T. L. iDavies, Ammanford, said that he always heen a valetudinarian. In February 1904, he was told that he was affected with consumption, ,and Ihe went to a sanatorium in Kenft. He only stayed there six weeks. He had been greatly benefitted, and was now with care able to go about his work. He followed out the treatment he had loaiined in the Sanatorium. Mr James Phillips asked the witnses if he could not have had quite as much benefit if he lhad followed out the treatment at his own house. Witness said that the doctor might have ordered It; but the rules would not have been carried out at home, Mr James PhiJilips asked the witness if he your own fault. Witiiess said that in an institution they were bound to follow the rules or to leave. Mr H. J. Davies: Were you asked to come 'here? Witness: Yes. By whom?-—By a member of this Council. Col. Morris: I am the member. Mr H. J. Davies: Has Col. Morris been canvassing people to give evidence. Col. Morris: 1 onily canvassed Mr Davies. The Chairman What would have been the hairm if he had canvassed 20 people. Mr H. J. 'Davies: I did not say it was. Mr David: Wrhy mention it then. Mr James Phiiilllips asked Mr Davies several Mr David: Why mention it then. Mr James Phiiilllips asked Mr Davies several questions regarding the contention that he could have done at home ail that he did in the sanatorium. Col. Morris: Mr Davies did not come here to he 'baited li'ke this. He came here to give evidence, nof to answer impossible questions. Mr James Philliips: I oibject to Colonel Morris's .remarks. I only put fair questions, Sir John WTillianis said that he compli- mented Col. Morris on, bringing snch an ex- cellent witness. The Chairman: You could not get any thing but igoood from the Amman Valley. Sir John Williams suggested that the treatment would be equally successful at home, if the house were in. a fair sanitary state. Many of those houses were so built, that it was impossible to vetntHate them. Whose fault was it that they were insanitai'y Sir James HiMs-Johnes said that those houses were built at a time when there was no proper idea of sanitation. Mr W. Malbon Davies: It is the fault of the, landlords. Sir James Hills-Johnes said that it was im- possible to pull down, all the houses in the country, and rebuild them oaccording t modern ideas. Mr D. iR. Jones was re-called, and Mr H. J. Davies elicited the fact that he worked with Nevill, Druce aixl Co. The manager was Mr Richard Nevill, a member of the Council, who took a great interest in this question; !but he had nothing to do with the meeting of the men at which the witness had been instructed to give evidence. Mr T. E. Brigstoclke said that the relation of the County Council to the Sanatorium would ibe something like theiT relation to Aberystwith College, aimd they had a repre- sentative on the Governing Body. Dr Hughes, of Ammanford, also gave evidence of his experience of people being cured by proper treatment. He admitted that the disease might be treated at home, as Mr T. L. iDavies did now. But Mr Davies was Iwelll off land educated; hut the majority of the people in Ammauforù were poor, ignorant, .and uneducated (laughter). Rev R. H. Jones asked the witness if he agreed with Dr Bulstrode, the L.G.R.. expert —that rpaverty was the main cause of the disea se ? Witness: I quite agfree. Is the sanatorium a cure for poverty?— They get the best foood there. Rev R. H. Jones asked i,f it was not largely due to. insanitary liousas? The witness said that sanatoria were onily one of the measures adopted to deal with the disease. IMr Wheldon. said that the discussion seemed totuir,n, Oil the percentage of cures. He appealed to them as a Welshman to Welshmen not to measure their charity by the number of poor people who were to be cured. This was the language of the debating society, hut not the language of the heart. He asked them to support this for the benefit of the poor and not to dispute over trivial points which could only be settled by experts. ■Mr James Phillips pointed to what had been done at bazaars at various places— £ 150 had been raised at St. dears. People did this voluntarily, beeamse they did not want it to come on, the ra,te,j. He was (net opposed to the iSanatorium, (but he was opposed to putting it on the rates. Consumption did not always come from hovels. Rev R. H. Jones said that he knew that. But it originated there, and it was infectious. That is how we are all one. A vote of thanks was then accorded to the deptitationi. Mr David moved that they adopt the Act. —Mr G. E. Bowen seconded. Mr H. J. Davies moved that they adjourn the debate. The meetilnig had commenced at 12.15 p.m., and with half an hour's interval had lasted until 4.15 p.m. Members begani to go home one by one, and a fear was expresed lest the house should be talked out, and there was a good deal of impatience displaced with speakers who wouM not curtail their remarks The folllowiaig voted for adjournment: Mr W. Davies, Sir John 'VÜli,ams, Mr T. Barrett, iMr H. Jones Davies, Mr David Evans, Mr J. W. Gwynine -dughes, Mr B. John, Mr John, Johns, Professor Jones, Rev R. H. Jones, Mr R. H. Williams, and Mr James Phiilflips—12. The following voted foir adopting the Act: Mr W. N. Jones, Mr John Rees, Mr Joseph Joseph, Mr G. E. Bowen, Mr T. E. Brig- stocke, Mr W. David, Mr D. Davies (Llan- debie), Mr Greville, Sir James Hills-Johnes, Col. Lewes, Mr NeviHe, Mr Mervyn, Peel, Mr Powell, Mr Roberts, and Mr D. Williams— 15. This is not final. It is a recommendation to the .next meeting of the County Councill.

Foneral of Mrs D. E. Williams,…

Local Deaths.



St. Clears Notes.



Hunting Appointments.

Family Notices

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