The Weekly News and Visitors' Chronicle for Colwyn Bay Colwyn Llandrillo Conway Deganwy and Neighbourhood

Llanrwst County Court. GEIRIONYDD COUNCIL'S ACTION AGAINST TIMBER MERCHANTS. ROAD DAMAGED BY ALLEGED EXTRAORDINARY TRAFFIC." AN INTERESTING FIGHT. A very inften-esting action, which affects all ratepayers, was heard by His Honour Judge Moss at the Llanrwst County Court, on Friday. The progress of the legal struggle, in which an important principle was involved, was fol- lowed! with much eagerness by the large number of people in Court. This was the much-talkied-of "extraordinary traffic" case which the Geifliionydd Rural Dis- trict Council has for some time contemplated bringing against Messrs. J. H. -and F. W. Green, timber merohanits, of Chesterfield. The claim was for £35, representing the extra expense incurred incünsequence of damage done tolheroad by the extraordinary traffic and ex- cessive weights taken over it by the defendant firm. Miy. Trevor Lloyd (jinstrutted by IMr. A. Lloyd Griffith) appeared for the Rural District Council, and Mr. Ernest Charles (instructed by Messrs. Tinder, Capron, and Co.) defended on behalf of the Timber Trades Federation of the United Kingdom. THE CASE FOR THE COUNCIL. In his opening speech Mr. Lloyd said that the proceedings) were taken under .section 23 of the Highway and Locomotives Amendment Act of 187.S, and section 12 of the Amending Act of 1898. The law laid it down that where' by the certificate of the Surveyor, it .appeared to an authority that, having; regard to the average ex- pen,se Of TepalT'ng highw,avs in, the neo'ghbour- E-1 hood. extra damage had been done to a road by excessive weight or extraordinary traffic, the authority could recover in a Court of Law the amount of the extra expense incurred from the user of the road who caused it. On this point authoritative decisions had been given in the High Court, and in particular he would rely upon the opinions of the eminent judges in the action of Hill v. Thomas. The defendant firm, having in the month of August, 1906, purchased growing timber of Lord Penrhyn, proceeded to fell it and to carry it to Bettws-y-Coed station, and it was in the course of carrying this timber that the damage was done to. the road. The road was a purely agricultural road used for purely agricultural purposes. The weights carried over this! road as a rule did not exceed one ton at miost, but in this case the loads averaged four tons, and therefore there was ex- cessive weight. The effect of these heavily laden waggons, sometimes drawn by seven horses, along that way was that there were ruts, in the road nine inches dteep. the ditches on the side of the road were practically filled up, and the culverts across the road were broken alto- gieither. His Honour would hear figures show- ing the excessive expense that the Council had been. forced to 'bear in conisequence of this traffic. It was a fact that .for something like forty years no cartage of that kind, the cartage of timber of excessive weight-, had been taken over this road at all. It would be shown that the expense from September 30th, 1906, to March 31st 1907, was £42 951. Sd., whereas the average for the three years previous was [n 4s. lod. He asked his Honour to say that this was not only extraordinary traffic, but excessive weight as well. COUNTY COUNCILLOR McINTYRE. Mr. Peter Mclnityre, J.P., C.C., thie well- known estate agent, was the first witness, called, and said he was the Surveyor to the Rural Council. He had made plans with reference to that case, one of which showed the road from the place where the timber was takeTh to Bettws-y-Coed station. The piece of road in question extended from a point 100 yards from: Pont Eidda to a point within 100 yards of Pont Rhydlanfair bridge. He had also made plans showing the various gndlioots on the same por- rtion of road. Mr. Mclnityre was subjected to a long cross- examination by Mr. Charles. What is your position- in the Council—are you ,their Surveyor?—I am engaged, by them for the preparation of planlSl for various works. But you are not their regular Surveyor?—-No. I .thought not. I think that as a matter of fact you are Lord Carmngiton's agenit?—I am an agent for Lord Carrington, and for a number of other owners as well. Yes, Lord Carrington amongst others. I know you have; a large agency. I will put it to you at once, because I know you will be quite fair abouit it, that it is within your own knowledge, I suppose, that from year to year a very large amount of timber is cut in the dis- trict around?—Oh, yes. And that in the regular way as woods ripen they are sold -and felled ?—They are. I suppose it would not: be within your know, ledge, but it is a large amount, something like 10,000 tons of timber ?—-I really could not say. The timber is carried on long timber waggons of a regular type?—Yes. Which is always used for timber-hauling in the district?—That is so. I don't know whether it is within your know- ledge, but frequently, I suppose, timber is cut down adjoining what may be small roads?—Oh, yes. And after that timber had been cut down that iraod would not be again used for a similar pur. pose until there had been re-afforestation, say twenty years hence?-It may be that it might not be used for removal of timber for many years again. Does Lord Carrington re-afforest at all?- Lord Carringttotn has very small property in this district. In properties for which you are agent is there re-afforestation ?-Oh, yes, over a large extent of woodland. Have you yourself seen very .frequently timber being hauled along different roads in the dis- trict ?—Yes. Pretty nearly every day?—No, not every day. Every week?—At intervals. On one road or in one parish —In different districts. I don't know whether you know when that Yspytty-road was made by Lord Penrhyn and Mr. Wynne-Finch?—I remember the time, but that is mot the road we are speaking -about. Where dotes it go to?—To Yspvtty from Pen- trefoelas- Which leads into the main rolad?- Yes, and then on to, Bettwls-y-Coed. By the Judge: You remember the road being made from Yspytty to the main road to Bettws? —Yes. By Mr. Charles: How long ago was that road made?—I could not fix the date. Well about, I will not presis you to a year or two? The Registrar (Mr. J. E. Humphreys) About eighteen years since it was dedicated. By Mr. Charles: Before that road was: made the traffic from Yspytty direction would have to come through the road in question?— 'Clearly. I don't know how long you have been in this district. A very long time, is it?—Since 1874. Well, I call that a very long time; about the time I was- born. (Laughter.) This timber- cut-ting and hauling is mo new development, but has been going on for years?—Cl-early. It was .going on in 1874 ?- Yes. Tbe,v were d(yin?g, this, I as now, cuttin,, and hauling?—Yes. And at that time were they hauling with :these timber waggons, jwsit the same?—Yes. GETTING OVER A DIFFICULTY. You made these plans'quite lately?—Yes. Perhaps you can answer a question about thf- road itself. The section which is the subject ox I I this claim is from Eliddia Bridge to Rhydlanfair Bridge. Has that got in places a stream across it?—Yes, in oneplace where it crosses the road. Counlsel had several times stum/bled over the names Eidida and Rhydlanfair, so the Judge came to his rescue. "In future," said His Honour, "we shall call it 'the damaged road. Mr. Charles (with evident relief) I shall be obliged-, because I ami strange to these difficult names. (Laughter.) Cross-examination continued In the damaged road the ,stream does cross?—1-t crosses the road, yes. In some parts the fields are higher than the roads?—Yes. This damaged road is very ISOft in places, is it not?—In charaioter it is just the siame as the usual mountain road. It has a very watery sub- soil. I ask you ibeoausethe expenditure- on that stretch of road is very nearly double what is ordinarily spent, as compared with other parts of Dulas roiad?—That is easily explained. The road is narrow. It has a narrow surfa-c-e of seven or eight feet, and the cartage would be -along the same tracks. In- answer to- another question Mr. Mclntyre i d it, was an old road. I n-i,a,?, s?,ay," he added, I think the Surveyor to the Council has not been too. extravagant in his outlay in repairing. Mr. Charlesj: I w-as going to ask you that. Do you consider that this road has. beten well kept up and kept in good heart?—It could do with a little more repairs now. The Judge (to the witness) That is not quite the point. Mr. Charles: You are referring to the general upkeep?—I did'nit see the road when it was damaged. The Judge Did you see the road before it was dam,aged ?—No. Mr. Charles: Then my question comes to. -nothing. Do you know Messrs. 'Lewis, of Lla;n,rwst ?- Yes. You know them well. Do vou remember their haulin.g timber along this damaged road 1 9 something like eighteen years ago?—-No. It is rather unfair to ask you to. tax your memory in this- way, but do you remember the timber being hauled over this road?—I could not speak as to that. Re-examined by Mr. Lloyd: Do you say there has been hauling of timber in the district around, but you cannot, speak as to this par- ticular road?—That is so. Mr. R. R. Owen, Clerk to the pl-aintiff Coun- cil, now put in the minutes authorising these proceedings and also the Surveyor's certificate. Mr. Charles said he would accept the min- utes without dispute, but a point would arise respecting the certificate which he would raise at the proper time. THE RURAL COUNCIL'S SURVEYOR. Mr, Robert Henry Williams, residing at the Post Office Trefriw, said he was the Sanitary Inspe:dbar land Road' Surveyor to Rural Council, a post he bad held for the past eight years. He was well, acquainted with the road in question. He had visited it nearly twice a month. The ordinary traffic along the road was purely agricultural. The farmers' carts generally weighed about ten cwts., and the loads about 25 cwtlS, at most. The average cost, of keeping the road in repair for the three years ending 301th September, 1906, was /i 1 4s. 10a. By the Judge: What length have you taken to get out that .average?—About one and a quarter miles. Have you kept separate .accounts for the damaged parts up to 1906?—Yes. His Honour I thought it rather curious to have these figures for a specific part. I thought ■perhaps he meant the whole of the road. The witness said he meant between the two bridges. Mr. Tilevoir Lloyd: How do you get at that ? -I had to make my estimate for the year, and from the pay sheets. I have the tim-e-sheetis of the men for every day they worked and the materials, and the bills of jstones .and for cart, ing, and then I had to go through those, par- ticulars and then I had to arrive fajt (these figures. I have got the figures for the whole road. By the Judge You have taken the stones laid be-tween, the two bridges?—Yes, and the labour. By Mr. Lloyd The actual expenditure be- tween 30th September last year and 31st March this year is 142 9s. 8d., and for the next half year ending September 30th £ 2 15 s. The sum claimed is £ 3$, 'and that is arrived at in this way. I had recently repaired the road before this damage was done. The whole cost was "II-.42 gs. 8d., and I deduct ^5 14s. Sd. from that that would be just the annual repair of that road under ordinary circumstances. That would be the average money spent on this road during the half year. That leaves a balance of f. 1 13s. Sd. The Judge I dont think that would do. He takes half the annual exp-enise. The next half year was only £ 2 odd. If he had taken the year and taken ^11 8s. lod. it might be differ- ent. If they are liable we must have the bene- fit of that. Mr. Lloyd It is only a small sum. The witness: This left a balance of ri 13s. Sed. I had to spend that and to keep a man during the time they were hauling. We had to spend the balance on labour and stones. That .amounts to fI 15s. 3d. Continuing, in reply to Mr. Lloyd, the wit- ness said that -in addition to the damage to the surface of the road the culverts were most of them broken. In August of last year he noticed the beginning of this haulage of timber, which was done with ordinary waggons, each weighing about 25 cwts. The loads averaged four tons. There were two waggons in use, and sometimes seven horses were required to draw one waggon where -the gradient was steep. On one occasion there were eight horses. When the waggons were going down hill the ordinary brakes were used. He had been told of other for-mis of braking, but he only saw the ordinary brakeis usisd. Thte wheels went ^through the surface of the road, making ruts which in some instances wire twelve inches deep. This damage could only have been done by the de- fendant's waggons. The Judge: Are the facts disputed in this case, Mr. Charles? M.r. Charles: Very much. sir. Replying to Mr. Lloyd, the witness said that the population -along -the road—taking Eidda and Ty If an—would be 460. The road was used also by the general public and by all the farmers of the valley of Eidda. He had lived in the district nearly all his life. and could not remember such haulage of timber over that n'oad before. Ijt was (exceptional in fails ex- perience. DISPUTED DATES. By Mr. Charles: You say you noticed these timber wagons, upon the road from August to December. Now, I suppose that the greater part of the dama,ge-ithils road is like othets- would be done in the winter months, when the frost got into the Toad ?-llt depends upon the traffic. Well, with this timber hauling traffic. The bulk of the damage would be done in the frosty weather, when a road of that sort, which is watery, would break much more easily?—I don't know with this traffic it would break it up at any time of the year. Of course, it depends on the weather. Thils road is wet in parts, is. it not?—-Yes. The fields-are higher than the road, the water runs down, and there is a water-course aorass it in one place?-—Yes. And it is a wet road?—It is well drained to meet that. You don't answeT my question. It is as; a fact, if we looked at iit this moment, a wet road ?--Pa,rt,s of it, yes. The greater fault of it is a wet road?—No, I would not say that. Would you say half of it is?—Well, I would say one-third of it is. I want to, ask you how it is, that during the Last three years you have spent a great deal more on the damaged road? The figures are: From March, 1904, down to September, 1906, 14s. 6d., on the. damaged road between the bridges. Now, from the bridge to Tai-Ivor gatle you spent £ 14 2s. 4d. Why is it double in the •ordinary way ?—The damaged -road is 1,% mil es; the continuation you refer to is a quarter of a mile. There are only two farms on that part; there is no. t'raflic at all. The traffic on this damaged road springs' up from nowhere?—Oh, no, it comes from the Holyhead road. within 200 yards. Do- you remember -seeing Mr. Green's timber waggon on the road in August?—I can't remem- ber the dates. Did you see them in September? Just think. -I can'it say; I have not kept any dates. Forgive me. You have sworn on your oath that they were on the road between August and December?—Yes, off and on. Did you ever see Mr. Green's waggons on the road in August?—I can't say. Did you ever see them in September?—I can't remember, because I have not kept any dates. Did you ever see them in. November?-—I have seem them several times during that period. Did you ever see them in November?—I can't say. Did you ever see them in December?—(No answer). The Judge: Did you ever see them at all? (Laughter).—I have seen,, them several times, but not knowing there was to be an action I didn't keep the dates. By Mr. Chambers I put it to you as a fact that the waggons were never on the road except fifteen days in October?—(No answer.) I will wait for your answer.-(St.,ill no reply). When, did you see them at all, if you ever saw -them?—A-s I have told you already, I have seen them several times. But, of course, my district i's a large district, and I could not be there every day watching these people. Why did you keep separ,a-te -ac?c<)unts; for this ;d?am!a,g ?-d iloia,cl bei?'orei the, h?a-Liling?-l Tn,,ado them from the pay-sheets. But you told His Honour that you kept separ- ate accounts. This is what you say on oath "Separate accounts of the damaged road." Why did you keep iSepaTlate accounts, or didn't you keep separate accounts?—I don't follow your question. The Judge said he understood the witness to ,say that he had kept separate accounts of the expenditure on the -damaged road for the three years ending September, 1906. Why was that done? The Witness I didn't imean that. I -made a separate accounit out of the pay-sheets. By the Judge: You mean that for the purpose of this action you examined your pay-sheets and estimated the approximate caSit ?- Y e.s. In the course of a long further cross-examina- tion by iMr. Charles, the witness admitted that he did not know the weight of ithe timber, loads. He estimated4 the weight at four tons because seven horses were 'required to driving a -load up the steep hills. It was only on one occasion that he had seen-, seven horses, thus employed with one load. Reforeoam,ing to his present situation the-witness was .a sanitary inspector at Feistiniog, and there obtained experience of road-making. He never saw the wheels of the timber wapons locked, but only braked in the ordinary way. AN UNNECESSARY WITNESS. John Thomas Rees, Bettws-y-Coed, a road foreman employed by the Carniarvo.nisihiire Coun- ty Council, was next called, but had no in- formation to give the Court. Mr. Trevor Lloyd Well, I can't see why you are here. (Laughter.) Mir. Charles No more can I. As the witness left the box, the Judge re- marked, "We are very much obliged to you." (Renewed laughter, in which Mr. Rees heartily joined.) PENMACHNO DOCTOR'S IMPRESSIONS. Dr William. Michael Williams, of Penmachno, the Medical Officer to the Llanrw-st Guardians, was in the box' for a considerable time, and his cross-examination provided several exciting episodes. In answer to Mr. Lloyd, the doctioir said he had been in practice in the district for a period of twenty-six years. He knew the damaged road very well, and had had occasion to drive over it every week during the whole of last year and this year. The Judge: And I hope he has seen more than the last witness. (Laughter.) Mr. Lloyd: Well, he must have seen some- thin, 1. Mr. Charles But perhaps he had his, eyes shut. Dr. Williams I had to keep both eyes- very much open while driving along that road. (Laughter.) Proceeding, the witness said the traffic along the road was purely agrlcultutai-" and, of course, the doctor!" (Laughter.) The average load was not more than a ton. The loads on the timber waggons were exceedingly heavy; ju-dgiing .from the effects, on the road they must have been several tons. The waggons were usual- ly pulled by three or tour horses. On. one occa- sion he saw all the horses of two waggons used to draw -one waggon up a hill. After that traffic the road was; in st ch a feaxful state ;that he ,u would not take a fortune for going that way by night. lit required gxetat care to travel that way even in the daytime. He had seen these wajggons: going down hill. To the best' of his knowledge, the hind wheels were locked with chains, and also the ordinary drag or "slipper" was used. In cross-examination by Mr. Charles the wit. ne,s,s at times- became very excited, and at last admitted that he could only say that he believed" the wheels were locked with chains, and that. this belief arose from an "im- pression." His "impression" as to the skid or drag was founded on, the same belief. He also believed that the shoe was on the same wheel as the" chain. Mr. Charles: It was. not tied up with a string as well, was it? (Laughter.) The witness: I was not close enough to see that. The occasion when he saw the horses of two waggons attached to one waggon was when he wais called to attend a man who had been kicked by a horse. So far as he knew, that was the only occasion on which that number of horses, were utilised to draw one waggon; And even that occasion (might have (beten due tb some other cause than the weight of the load, such as the isltiff working of the back wheels,. A DULL WITNESS. William Williams, farmer, Fronddu, the next