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---Conway and Colwyn Bay Joint…
Conway and Colwyn Bay Joint Water Board. SIGNS OF THE COMING STORM. IS THE PROPOSED NEW PIPE LINE NECESSARY? A QUESTION INVOLVING £ 24,000. Mr. George Bevan, J.P. (Chairman), presiding, the monthly meeting of the Cowlyd Board was held, on Friday, at Colwyn Bay. There were also present Alderman Hugh Hughes, Councillor Hugh Owen, Councillor Dr. M. J. Morgan, Messrs. Hugh Hughes, Thomas Roberts, D. O. Williams, Hugh Davies, J. W. Raynes, John Jones, and Rogers Jones together with the Clerk (Mr. T. E. Parry), the Engineer (Mr. T. B. Far- rington), the Borough Surveyor of Conway (Mr. F. A. Delamotte), the Colwyn Bay Surveyor (Mr. William Jones), the Sanitary Inspector to the Conway Rural Council (Mr. Levi John), and the Board's Waterman (Mr. W. Whalley). THE WATERMAN'S REPORT. LAKE FULL: NUMEROUS COMPLAINTS. Mr. Whalley, in his monthly report, stated that the lake was full, and everything was in good order there. The pipe line down to Dolgarrog was kept in good order. I have received," he added, numerous complaints during this month of insufficient pressure at Colwyn Bay, Llysfaen, and Penrhynside. The pressure has not been to its normal height of 160 lbs. since the 9th ult., when it began to freeze; the pressure then went down at night time until it was 130 on Saturday night, the 24th ult. On the following Sunday I went up to the relieving tank and tested all along to Colwyn Bay, and failed to find anything. The following day the pressure was low myself and Mr. C. Farrington went to the relieving tank and tested all along, and while we were there a three inch pipe was found burst at Pwllycrochan. After this was repaired the pressure got up to 150 lbs. at night time-still 10 lbs. low both day and night-and although careful search has been made, we have, so far, not been able to find out the cause. In view of the fact that the pressure was below its normal height, and that we were unable to find the cause, I got instructions from Mr. Farrington to turn off the different branches on the main. Pydew, Llangwstenin, Deganwy, and Conway were turned off at N.30 p.m. on Feb. 3rd, and 3 a.m. on Feb. 4th, and on Febru- ary 19th, at one o'clock, the valves on the twelve inch and six inch mains at Sarn Mynach were closed. I am sorry to inform you that we are still short of 10 lbs., and therefore unable to satisfy the higher levels." Mr. J. W. Raynes asked by whom the leakage near the Pwllycrochan was discovered-by the Cowlyd Board's officers or the Colwyn' Bay Council's men? The Chairman It was found by the Colwyn Bay Council's men. Mr. Raynes How long had the leak been going on? The Chairman 48 hours. Mr. Raynes asked if it was not possible to find means for discovering breakages sooner than that? The Chairman explained that in this case there was no water in the pipe for many hours, and when the water reached the spot the breakage was found out. "vVe had," he proceeded, a suspicion of a breakage there on Saturday night, and we sent men up to uncover the pipe. Every- thing was tried and they could not see any sign of leakage, and they covered the pipe up again. On Monday morning we had a complaint from Pwllycrochan of there being no water on Sunday. Mr. Raynes asked the Chairman if he could account for the shortage of water at Llysfaen. The Chairman replied that the Colwyn Bay Council had nothing to do with that; it was a matter for the Conway Rural Council. Mr. Raynes aomplained that during the last five weeks, Llysfaen had received only three days' supply. The blame rested with Colwyn Bay for suppressing the water from Llysfaen. The Chairman: There is plenty of water at Sarn Mynach, at the boundary of the rural dis- trict you must get it from there. Mr. Raynes referred to the arbitration going on between Colwyn Bay and Llysfaen in respect to the charge made for the use of the former Coun- cil's pines, and said that whatever the result might be, Colwyn Bay had no> right to cut off Llysfaen's supply. The Chairman replied that the arbitration was to decide whether Colwyn Bay had a right to charge for the use of the pipes during certain years. Llysfaen refused to pay, on the ground that there was no contract binding Colwyn Bay to supply Llysfaen. That argument cut both ways. Whatever might be the result of the arbi- tration, it could apply only to the two years in question it would do nothing to settle the ques- tion for the future. Mr. Raynes said that the Chairman was entirely wrong. The Chairman We have no contract with you to supply water, and you have no right to demand it. 0 Amid cries of "No, no," Mr. Raynes repeated that Colwyn Bay was suppressing water from Llysfaen. Mr. John Jones asked what would be the mini- mum pressure required at this time of the year to give a satisfactory supply to the whole district. Mr. rarrington replied that a pressure of 160 lbs. would be required. Mr John Jones So that anything below 160 Ibs. depnve Llysfaen and Penrhynside? Arrington Yes. It is now 150 lbs., wnich is too low to supply Llysfaen and Penrhyn. Mr. John Jones Now, we know where we are. THE ENGINEER'S REPORT. AN IMPORTANT EXPERIMENT. The Engineer (Mr. Farrington) submitted his report as follows -"The rainfall for the month of January was 16.60 inches and for the corres- ponding month in 1902, 4.90—an increase of 11.70 inches. The lake was overflowing during the whole of the month, the average overflowing 9 inches, the maximum being 18 inches and 24 inches on the 17th and 26th ult. respectively. Exceptionally heavy storms have been experi- enced at the lake during the month, and a strong gale from the south accounts for the extraordin- ary overflow on the 26th. Rain fell on 9 days against 10 days in January last year. He had received a letter from Mr. C. H. Red- head, manager of the National Telephone Com- pany, stating that owing to the alteration to the Conway Suspension Bridge he had been requested K-R. the contractor to have their cable off the Bridge by February 8th, 1903. He should be very much obliged if they would kindly obtain per- mission for them to run their cable along the outside of the aqueduct bridge as shown on plan enclosed. Mr. I« arrington asked for instructions thereon. "The Engineer reported that the work on the drain for the culvert for Llandudno Junction was comp_LETED> and he now presented a measure bill, showing a balance due to the contractor of £ 40 is. 3d. Owing to constant complaints of defective pressure from Colwyn Bay, Penrhyn, and Llys- faen, THE: Engineer reported that he had carefully taken note of the pressure on the trunk main, and for that purpose had at different times totally shut off the supply to, the various districts during the night. The result proved that the trunk main was practically hermetically tight. The differences of pressure recorded when each district was shut off added to the initial head recorded at Con- way stores agreed with the theoretical head, and the loss of pressure was therefore entirely due to waste and leakage throughout the whole of the district supplied. The Engineer further reported that as all of the alterations at Farchwiel Bridge and Porth- lwyd, except a pipe line at both places, had been completed, he. should like to have instruc- tions to proceed with the remainder of the work." Mr. Raynes pointed out that the lake was over- flowing at times as much as 24 inches, and yet Llysfaen had no supply. He demanded to know of the Colwyn Bay Council's Surveyor whether he was suppressing the water. It was an extra- ordinary thing that Llysfaen had a better supply last summer than it was having now. Mr. Farrington remarked that the overflow at the lake had nothing to do with the matter. As much as 200 million gallons flowed over on two days. The question was, what became of the water that entered the main. Mr. John Jones said he therefore understood the reason why the whole district not get a sup- ply was because there was waste and leakage in different places. Mr. Farrington That is so. Of course, I must qualify that remark to a certain extent. In a long length of pipe, like this, there must be an appreciable amount of deficiency. Mr. John Jones Then you are of the same opinion as before, that were this waste and leak- age done away with, the supply given by this 12 inch main would be enough for the whole district ? Mr. Farrington I prefer not to answer. I can- not answer it. Mr. John Jones I have always understood you to maintain that this 12 inch main is ample and sufficient to give us an adequate supply of water. Mr. Farrington was next asked to explain the results of the experiment referred to in his re- port. He said that on the previous Monday night the pressure at the Bridge was 150 lbs. (not 160 lbs., as it had formerly been). He shut off Pydew and Llangwstenin, and the record went up 4 lbs. then he turned off Deganwy, and the pressure went up 8 lbs. Next he let off Gyffin and Conway, and that gave 15 lbs. Then he shut off Colwyn Bay and Llysfaen, and the record went up 30 lbs. The pressure was then 207, which was practically what it should be, as the theoretical pressure at this point was 206. Mr. John Jones And it proves that Colwyn Bay and Llysfaen get more than half the whole supply. Mr. Hugh Davies What are you talking about, Mr. Jones? We pay for more than two-thirds. Mr. John Jones said he would now ask the meeting to take his motion, which was on the agenda, in reference to six meters for the district. The Chairman ruled that this must be taken in its turn, it being preceded by other items on the agenda. Replying to questions, Mr. Farrington said that if all the branches were cut off at the same time at Conway Bridge, the pressure there would be over 200. Mr. Raynes asked whether Mr. Farrington would try that experiment with a view to prov- ing his words. Mr. Farrington I could do it, but I should not like to. I don't like to put such a great pres- sure on the main. A long discussion took place as to whether Mr. John Jones could bring forward his motion at the present stage, but the Chairman firmly adhered to his ruling that it was not permissible at pre- sent, but must be taken in its order upon the agenda. THE PROPOSED NEW MAIN. ANOTHER WORDY WARFARE. The next item on the agenda was Report from Messrs. Chamberlain & Johnson and Thorn- ton Jones." Printed copies of this report (which has been published in the" Weekly News") had been distributed amongst the members. Alderman Hugh Hughes referred to a clause in the. report, the effect of which was that if the inadequacy of the present supply to the consti- tuent districts were established as a fact, it would be the duty of the Cowlyd Board to make pro- vision for increasing such sunly. The report presented to them that dav fr"- the Engineer made presented to them that dav fr"- the Engineer made, it very clear that the present system was not having fair play, and that there was enormous leakage going on. He therefore moved That the inadequacy of the present supply of water to Colwyn Bay, as a constituent district, not having been established as a fact, our duty, as a Joint Board, to make provision for increasing such sup- ply has not been established." The Board's first duty was to go into this question of waste. It had been shewn that the pipes were full and were capable of delivering a sufficient supply of water into the district. Mr. John Jones seconded. There was a pres- sure of 10 lbs. missing somewhere and it seemed to him that it was the Board's duty to set their house in order before any Government Inquiry was called for. It would be time enough to go for the proposed new scheme when it had been proved to their satisfaction that the present scheme was not sufficient. In his opinion, no such proof was as yet forthcoming-in fact, the proof was to the contrary-and he thought that the proposed new main was premature. The Chairman held that the motion was quite out of order at present, because it had no rele- vancy to anything that was before the Board. Mr. John Jones I think it is quite in order. Alderman H. Hughes: I 'moved it on the strength of the solicitors' report. The Chairman: We have not accepted or adopted the report as yet. Besides, we should have notice of such a motion as this. Mr. Thomas Roberts argued, from the experi- ences of Colwyn Bay and Llysfaen, that the ex- isting system was not adequate. -The Chairman It is a very irregular position for Mr. Hughes to take up, to move a resolution on a report which no one has adopted, and no one seems inclined to adopt. Ald. Hugh Hughes: We agreed that these gentlemen should draw up a report the report was submitted to us at the last meeting, and un- doubtedly it was adopted in the sense that we ordered it to be printed and sent to the members. The Chairman said that at the last meeting he supported the Conway members, against the Col- wyn Bay representatives, m regard to the resolu- tion that the report be printed, but there was no word said about adopting the report. He must rule the present motion to be out of order and irregular. Alderman Hugh Hughes I should not like to say that you are ruling in a very partial manner. We have had this report printed and distributed, and I understood that we were coming here to discuss it and move resolutions. Mr. Thomas Roberts No. Alderman Hugh Hughes Am I to take it that Mr. Roberts is the Chairman. Perhaps he is the Vice-Chairman he seems to echo everything you say. I propose my motion if you rule it out of order you must take the responsibility. The Chairman I do take the responsibility. Dr. Morgan moved the adoption of the solici- tor's report. The Chairman said that there could be no ob- jection to that course; but, as a matter of fact, it would not facilitate matters at all. because no resolution upon a. clause of the report could be moved without notice. Mr. John Jones expressed dissent. Mr. Raynes rose to press his question whether the Colwyn Bay Surveyor had been suppressing water from Llysfaen. ° The. Chairman, commenced a reply to Mr. Raynes, when Ald. Hugh Hughes rose to object to the ruling of the Chairman resnecting his motion. The Chairman On my own responsibility, I say it is out of order. Mr. John Jones appealed to the Chairman's sense of fairness. It might be policy, in the intere, ts, of Colwyn Bay, for the Chairman to rule as he had done, but he (Mr. Jones) said the motion was quite in order. How was it possible for it to be out of order? The Chairman It is a negative resolution on a matter that is not before the Board. The ques- tion of adequacy has not arisen yet, and you have not yet rescinded the resolution already on the books, in which you decide to lay a new pipe- line. Mr. John Jones asked for the ruling of the Clerk. Or did the Chairman think he could rule the Clerk and everyone else? The Clerk declined to give any opinion, be- cause it was the duty of the Chairman. The Chairman: If you cannot respect the rul- ing of the Chairman ———— Mr. John Jones thought that the opinion of the meeting should be taken. The Chairman said that he was acting on his own judgment and responsibility. Mr. John Jones: Let the Clerk give his opinion. The Chairman He says it is my duty to rule, and I do rule. Mr. John Jones You should rule in equity. The Chairman I do rule in equity. Dr. Morgan Do I understand that you object to the report being discussed. The Chairman No. I take it that the report is to be discussed to-day. Dr. Morgan Then I move that the report be adopted at this meeting. I agree with this report thoroughly. Ald. Hugh Hughes asked that the resolution passed at the previous meeting be read. The Clerk read the minute, which stated that a printed copy of the report was to he sent to each member for consideration. Ald. H. Hughes For our consideration Now it is on the agenda, and I take it that everything that is on the agenda is in order to be dis- cussed. The Chairman It is now for you to say whether you accept the report or reject it; whether you accept one part and refuse another. Aid. Hughes Can part be adopted and part refused ? The Chairman: Yes. Mr. John Jones again urged the Chairman to permit Alderman Hughes's motion to go to the meeting. The Chairman I rule it is not in order. Mr. Jones You do it as a matter of policy, and not as a matter of justice. The Chairman I don't care what you call it. A long discussion in the same strain followed, in which the Chairman remarked that it would be well to have the Board's solicitor, Mr. R. S, Chamberlain, present when the report was being discussed. 0 Ald. Hugh Hughes said he did not wish to do anything unfair. Would they agree to having a special meeting for the purpose of considering the report? 0 This suggestion was unanimously agreed to, and it was decided that the meeting should be held at Colwyn Bay to-day (Thursday). THE GREAT METER QUESTION. Mr. John Jones now moved, in accordance with notice, That meters be placed in close proximity to the lake and on the boundary of each, authority, with a view of ascertaining the quantity of water delivered to each authority." The motion implied practically that they carry out the recommendation of the Engineer. The cost of the meters would be 6671. Mr. Hugh Davies: It will be double that amount against the job is done like that affair at Llandudno Junction. (Laughter.) Mr. John Jones said the members would have noticed the reports of Messrs. Chamberlain & Johnson (for the Board), Mr. Thornton Jones (for the Conway Corporation), and Mr. Ffoulkes Jones (for the Rural Council), and that they all as one recommended the adoption of these meters. As the Board knew the meters would be a complete check upon the water that entered the intake from Dolgarrog. They would be in a position to know approximately the quantity of water used in each district and to locate any leakages. This would prevent misunderstanding If a Government inquiry would be held into the proposed new scheme, the first question the In- spectors would ask was whether the Board had carried out the Engineer's suggestions for finding out whether the existing scheme was adequate or not, and the Cowlyd Board would look very ridiculous if they could not answer in the affirma- tive. It would be wise in the interests of Colwyn Bay to have these meters. He did not say that the waste and leakage were all at Colwyn Bay, but he might say that the Rural Council did not shirk an enquiry, and neither did the Corpora- tion. R Dr. Morgan seconded. At one time h.e did not think it was necessary to have these meters, but now he believed, in view of the inquiry, that they should do what their solicitors and engineer re- commended. OPINIONS CHANGED. Mr. Raynes said that when he was Chairman he was in favour of the new main, but he was dead against it now. In the same way he was then against the meters, but he was in favour of them now. There was a tremendous lot of waste going on all over the district. If the Board were formed into a proper water authority, and charged a rate upon the consumer direct, in the same way as a Water Company did, they would get to know what became of the water but under existing circumstances the only remedy was to have these meters. Although there was such a great over-flow, Llysfaen was having practically less than in summer, and he could only assume that Colwyn Bay was deliberately cutting off Llysfaen's supply. The Chairman You must not assume anything of the kind. Mr. Hugh Hughes (Colwyn Bay) Can we legally spend this money? The Clerk Yes, if you can get the consent of the constituent districts. The Chairman read a letter from the Clerk to the Conway Rural Council urging the Board to fix these meters. WILL ONE METER SUFFICE? The Chairman proposed, as an amendment, that one meter, costing £ 150, be placed on the main the other side of Conway. He believed that it was very necessery for the constituent authori- ties to know the amount of water going into each district, and what became of it, and this could be ascertained by the aid of one meter, if the en- gineer followed the same plan as he had recently done, and had described in that meeting. The difference in cost was very considerable, and it would also have to be remembered that if they had six meters they would require a man to look after them. Then, again, it was very question- able whether six would be enough to carry out the idea, because owing to the arrangement now existing on the Llysfaen boundary, there would be at least three meters required at that point. Altogether, the plan meant a capital outlay of £ 1,000 against the "150 which he proposed. On being put to the meeting, the motion to fix six meters was carried by six votes to five. A discussion next took place as to whether the meters should be purchased at once, the cost being provided out of the rates, or whether the Local Government Board should be asked to sanction the loan, A proceeding which would in- volve delay. sanction the loan, a proceeding which would in- volve delay. It was finally decided, by six votes to five that as a matter of urgency the meters be purchased forthwith, and that a loan of money be applied for. THE WASTE OF WATER. OFFENDERS TO BE PROSECUTED. Alderman Hugh Hughes proposed that the con- stituent authorities be asked to a^ooint water inspectors, with power to prosecute any person or persons detected wasting water, and that the authorities be urged to make every effort to dis- cover where waste and leakage were occurring This was carried. °
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