The Weekly News and Visitors' Chronicle for Colwyn Bay Colwyn Llandrillo Conway Deganwy and Neighbourhood

Conway Board of Guardians. At the Conway Board of Guardians' monthly meeting on January 12th, the Chairman (Rev W. Venables-Williams) presided, and there were also present the Vice-Chairmen (County-Councillors John Davies and John Porter), County-Aldenr.an Edward Jones, and Messrs A. Borthwick, Robert Evans, John Roberts, G. O. Jones, W. F. Jones, David Jones, J. Cutts, E. J. Watkins, and the Clerk (Mr T. E. Parry). THE LLYSFAEN RELIEF-LIST.—EXTRAORDINARY EXPOSURES. The Chairman, calling upon Mr Borthwick to make his promised statement with regard to the out-door relief in Llysfaen Parish, said that, according to the newspaper reports of the Board's December meeting, there were very serious charges made against the relief-list as existing in the parish of Llysfaen. He was afraid that he knew nothing about it himself. There was a great deal of truth in it, he was sure, as he was always grumbling about it. [Laughter]. Uys- faen seemed to get everthing they asked for, and everything they wanted, and he did not see where Llysfaen in any degree differed from Penmaen- mawr. Both were places where men earned their living in very much the same way, but what disturbed him more, than anything, was the statement of a member of the Board, Mr John Roberts, that he was afraid that a great deal of the excessive high relief at Llysfaen was due to drink. That imposed upun them the necessity of limiting the reiiel-list, because if there was anything more another they ought to look after, it was that they did not grant relief to undeserving poor who brought themselves into trouble through drink. [Hear, hear]. He would cut it off, at once, on the slightest proof of anything of that kind. [Hear, hear]. Referring to a report (in some daily newspapers) of some remarks made by him at a previous meeting, the Chairman said that the report was wrong. There was clearly an error as to what he had said as to drinking in the House. What he really did say was that there was drinking in a house, that is, in a house where out-relief was wanted and applied for. The report, as it appeared in the newspapers referred to, was an entire mistake, as far as that point was concerned and he should be very sorry to have Mr Jones (the Master)—or any officers of the Board,—suspected of having connived at drinking in the House, or that it was possible that drinking should go on in the House without them knowing it. [Hear, hear]. He would now call upon Mr Borthwick to make his statement. Mr Borthwick I think that the responsibility rests on me, of proving every word from evidence, as far as that evidence has been collected, in support of the very grave charges which I brought, at the last Board, against the administration of relief in Llysfaen Parish. I do not withdraw in the slightest from the observations I made about that Parish, and I believe that a thorough investigation into the various cases, would prove that those charges are substantially true. The course which I intend, in response to the Chair- man's invitation, to persue to-day, is to take up, in the meantime, those cases as to which I have made some inquiries, the details of which I will place beiore you for your consideration. But, before doing so, I wish to make one remark following what the Chairman has said, and I am sorry that Mr John Roberts is not here yet, because he rose after I had spoken at the last Board, and one of the reasons he gave for the state of pauperism—of course it is positively undeniable that the pauperism is a public scandal, —he alleged that one of the causes was drink, The Chairman has dealt with that. Another cause that he gave. was the accidents which took place at the quarries. I have been making inquiries into that question, and I hope at another time, to bring forward cases in support of the testimony I am now about to give, which is the testimony of a ratepayer who has lived all his lite in the Parish, and who is in touch with both masters and men, and his testimony i"i, I have been intimately acquainted with the working or the quarries, and can say that, on the whole, the workmen and their families have been treated well (in many cases generously) by the employers, whenever an accident has occurred." I think that I am bound to say that much in vindication of what might appear to be a charge against the employers. Now I wish to call your attention in the first place to the case of Jane Edwards, Ysgubor Newydd. I don't know, Mr Chairman, whether the reporter will take these names or not? The Chairman I don't see why he should not. This is a matter affecting the ratepayers, and I don't see why, if these people are not too proud to come for relief, publicity should not be given to their names. As a matter of fact, publicity is given already. The Cierk puts out a printed list, and that has been brought to my notice as being a very excellent plan. Mr Borthwick Very well, sir. Jane Edwards' age is 59, according to the book. Mr Jesse Jones (Relieving Officer): She is about 51. Mr Borthwick That makes a difference of seven years. She is a widow has no children, and gets 2s 6d a week from ttiis Union, which she has had for 18 years This pauper is the owner of freehold property. She lives in her own house, and she gets is 9d a week rent tor another, and she also keeps a little shop. I ask you, is that a case for outdoor relief ? Mr Jesse Jones said that the woman had 1101 received relief for 18 years,-about 8 or 10 may-be. As to the shop, she only sold yarn, and it was not true that that she received is gd a week rent for another cottage. The Chairman I should say that this is decidedly a case where the house should be offered, and relief stopped. Mr Watkins thought that the woman was trying to earn her livelihood, and she had only one arm. Mr Jesse Jones No, she has two arms; but can only use one of them. Mr Borthwick said that it was only her little finger that was disabled. [Laughter], Mr Watkins We ought to assist those who try to assist themselves. We have plenty on the books more deserving of being refused relief than a woman who is trying to help herself. There was a case in Penrhynside two years ago. A woman wanted 2s 6d a week relief, and it was refused because she had a cow. Mr Borthwick On that principle we might assist all the ratepayers who are striving. The Chairman You don't mean to say that a person who has a cow is in any way entitled to parish-relief? Why, when I first became Chair- man of this Board, there were persons in receipt of parish-relief who had three or four cows and horses. It is a great mistake to suppose that it will increase the cost it we had her in the House. As a matter of fact, r venture to say that she will never come into the House. It was decided that the relief be at once stopped, and the House offered to Jane Edwards. Mr Borthwick: Mary Jones, Bwlchygwynt, sister to Jane Edwards, gets 2s a week. She is said to be 62 years of age, but she is not so much; she is about 50. Mr Jesse Jones She is 61, 2, or 3. Mr Borthwick: She has no young children, and I say that she is only about 50 years old, and has a grown-up son and daughter (both unmarried, and both living at home). Her daughter goes to ser- vice during the summer, and rests at home during the winter. The Chairman What does the son do ? Mr Jesse Jones He lives at Lletty'rdryw, and is in regular work there. Mr Borthwick Does he not go home at night? Mr Jesse Jones I don't know that. Mr Robert Evans No, he does not go home at night. Mr Jesse Jones I don't believe that the daughter is at home either but, if Mr Borthwick says so, I give way at once. It was decided to offer her the House, and to stop the relief. Mr Borthwick Ann Hughes, Brynllyfaenan, 40 years of age, gets 3s a week, but has been having 5s. She has three or four children,—one, a lad 17 years old, a stonemason, who lives at home. This destitute woman is the owner of three houses. She lives in one, and gets 3s 6d a week rent for the other two. She also keeps a grocery store, and has three pigs and a cow,—not three acres and a cow. [Laughter]. Mr Robert Evans As to the I don't think that that is correct. She asked me to take one son as an apprentice. Mr Borthwick Don't you give him wages? Mr Evans: No; what do we get for learning him ? The Chairman (to Mr Jesse Jones) And yet she is the owner of three houses ? Mr Jesse Jones Yes, sir. The Chairman I am nstounded that you let. it g-o on oil Mr Jesse Jones Mr Chairman, the case was brought before the Board some time ago, and told exactly in the same way. Her house is free from rent. She pays nothing for them. They are mortgaged, and the boy, when he comes of age, can do anything he likes with them. The Chairman We are not justified in granting relief in this case. If a person is the owner of freehold property, relief ought to be stopped. It was decided to stop the relief. Mr Borthwick The next case is Jane Davies, Tanyffordd. My opinion is that she is 60 years of age. She is entered in the list as 71. She gets 2s 6d a week relief, has no young children, but has a son, thirty years old, unmarried, who lives in the same house, and who is a carpenter earning 5s a day. Mr Jesse Jones He has not earned anything for many weeks on account of hurting his finger. The Chairman But that would not affect the question, which is, whether a person who earns 5s a day ought not to keep his mother altogether. (To Mr Jesse Jones) I have laid that on you, over and over again, that, where sons live with their mothers, and their mothers act as house- keepers for them, relief ought to be stopped. Mr Jesse Jones admitted that, but said that the woman's age was 69 or 70, not 60. Mr Borthwick How do you get at her age? Mr Jesse Jones I ask. Mr Borthwick: And you don't get a certificate Why should we not have a certificate? The Chairman I think we ought. It would be worth while. Mr Cutts After our experience to-day, I think that we ought. Mr Jesse Jones said that a certificate would cost half a crown, but The Chairman pointed out that for a shilling the Relieving Officer would be entitled to look at the register, and can copy the date. It was decided that in future this be done, and that, in this case, the House be offered, and that the relief be stopped. Mr Borthwick The next case is Eliza Davies, Tai Newyddion, 50 years of age (I admit the age in this case) she gets 3s a week relief. She is a strong, healthy woman, and earns 4s a week by charing. She has two sons, both living with her, and earning money. The Chairman (to Mr Jesse Jones, severely) You know that the rule is is per child, and yet this woman gets 3s, though she has only two children at home, and only one dependent on her. It was decided to offer the House, and to stop the relief. Mr Borthwick The next case is Mary Hughes, Bettws. She is 44 years of age, and gets 6s a week relief. She has g'ot two children, said to be 12 years and 10 years old respectively, but I don't admit that, because she has been a widow a long time. Mr Jesse Jones said that the ages, as given, were correct. Mr Borthwick: She is strong, able to work, and is a fat and flourishing woman. [Laughter]. The Chairman Is she "fair, fat, and forty" ? [Renewed laughter], Mr Borthwick (continuing) And she has a grown-up daughter (living at home) who works in the summer, and rests in the winter, partaking of the ratepayers' hospitality. [Laughter]. (To Mr Jesse Jones): Is it a fact that this pauper employs an agent to get the money for her, and that he gets a commission for doing it ? Mr Jesse Jones The postman gets it. The Chairman (severely, to Mr Jesse Jones) Have you not been told several times that you are not (except in special cases) to give reiief-money to any person but the one entitled to it ? Mr Jesse Jones Yes, quite right, sir. Mr John Roberts (who had now entered tha room): The question is, is she ill or no' Mr BorthwicR: Don't 1 "nieci. her and her daughter on the,, road, looking well and hearty I ask whether we can afford to keep paupers in this way? I have been looking for a servant, but I can't get one to come, because they say it is too lonely up my way; they want to be in the swim of social lite. Mr John Roberts There is something the matter with that ivonian. The tragic death of her husband has affected her mind. Mr Jesse Jones explained that, some time ago, the woman's husband, with others, was drowned just in front of the house, and she had got into the habit of going and looking at the spot where he was drowned, and the doctor said that, if she did not go-,away, it would affect her mind. Mr Borthwick I have taken the evidence of several residents in the neighbourhood, and they ail concur that she is quite able to work and earn her living. As to being touched in the head, well, there are a great many who are touched in their heads, — the question is, if many are right. [Laughter], Mr John Roberts (reproachfully): It was a great, shock to her to lose her husband as she did, and I should not like you to be light about it. The Senior Vice-Chairman (calmly): Just so, but it may have worn away since. Mr Borthwick I do not treat it lightly but we shown quite enough sympathy- with her. We have spent £ 250 on her. It was suggested that she be allowed a shilling a week, on condition of obtaining a medical certificate. Mr John Roberts proposed that 4s a week be granted till the end of May, but it was Hnally decided to allow her 2s weekly till the end of May. The last case Mr Borthwick brought forward, was that of William Rees, Pentregwyddel, 40 years of age, who received 4s a week in relief. He (Mr Borthwick) understood that Rees was an imbecile, but that he was quite strong and able to work, and, as a matter of fact did work. This case was left in abeyance. After further discussion, the Chairman said that the Board would be greatly indebted if Mr Borthwick would pursue his inquiries. Arising from the subsequent consideration of the relief-list, some strong remarks were made upon a certain applicant, a young man recently married, having become destitute after only one week's illness, and only possessing one pound's worth of furniture, because of his habit, in his bachelor days, of spending most of his earnings upon drink. Relief having been granted, Mr John Roberts said that it struck him that they must draw out a very strong resolution against drink, and post it up through every Parish in the Union. The Chairman said that it was a very good idea,—the resolution should be that the Board would grant no out-door relief to anyone who was of drinking habits. Mr John Roberts formally moved this resolution, Mr David Jones seconded, and the Board passed it unanimously, and ordered it to be posted (111 English and Welsh) throughout the Union. THE WORKHOUSE JUVENILES. The Chairman called attention to the Work- house juvenile inmates, who now went unattended to the Conway National Schools, whose School- master spoke in the highest terms of their conduct, regularity of attendance, and proficiency. CHRISTMASTIDE GIFTS, ETC. The Board passed a hearty vote of thanks for Christmastide gifts to the inmates, from the Mayoress of Conway (Mrs R. Arthur-Prichard), Mrs David Owen, Mr J. Lloyd Jones, and Mrs Maurice Roberts and for a special treat provided by Miss Biggs and her friends from Colwyn Bay. It also gratified the Board to learn that Mr Bircham, the Local Government Board Inspector, when he had lately visited the Workhouse, had entered in the Visitors' Book that he had received no complaints, and that the inmates were evidently well-cared for. The Board also heard wilh pleasure that in the Visitors' Book were complimentary entries by the Vicars of Colwyn and Conway, and by the Rev J. E. Davies. STATISTICAL. The Master (Mr Edward Jones) reported that the number of inmates (115) was larger than usual, and that 25 tramps had been relieved during the past fortnight.