The Principality

ANNUAL PUBLIC MEETING OF THE ASSOCIATION. The annual meeting of this association was hold on Wednes- day evening, May 2nd. in Finsbury chapel. The body of the chapel was "filled long before the time announced for the com- mencement of the meeting, and soon after six o'clock the whole place became densely crowded, every spot where standing-room could be obtained being packed with eager listeners. The platform, pulpit, and the lobby adjoining, were occupied by ministers itnd other well-known gentlemen both in town and country, Dr. Price in the chair. r The OHAIUMAN, on rising, said :-Laélies and Gentlemen,— The Council and the Executive Committee of the Anti-State Church Association have much pleasure in meeting you to- day. We have been engaged in consultation on those matters that arc involved in our enterprise, and we come before you now in order to give a public, and we trust a popular, expres- sion to the views we entertain. It was not our purpose to meet in this place (hear, hear). Believing, as we did, that the state of public feeling called for and would justify our assem- bling in a larger place, we made application to the Directors of Exet-r Hall for the use of the large hall in that building. To such application we-received the following brief reply March 18, 1849. Sin,—I have laid your application before the directors of Exeter Hill, and they have "desired me respectfully to decline acceding to it (shame, shame). \7o have done, therefore, all that was in our power to secure for you larger accommodation th.au this building affords, and we trust that this circumstance, significant as it is, will not be lost iu the impression which this meeting will make on your minds. It is not for me, it is not for the committee of the Anti State Church Association, to enlarge on the refusal which has thus been conveyed to us but we perceive—and we wish the Directors of Exeter Hull to understand our feeling— an omen of good rather than of evil in their declining our request (hear, hear, and cheers). It is because danger is appre- hended to certain interests that such a communication as this has been forwarded to our society; and we are encouraged, 'therefore, by it to cherish the conviction that the elements o ¡. pa1\1¡c! confidence and. strength are being steadily gathered up I wiili the view to the accomplishment of our purpose (cheers). Some Dissenters, timid and apprehensive Dissenters it may be, have been in the habit of saying to us that the time is not yet come. Would that such parties weie in my place to-night, in order that from the demonstration afforded by your presence at this early hour, they might perceive the fallacy, the unsoundness, of the objection they preferred. When, the public feeling of the metropolis is such as to gather together on all befitting occasions assemblies like the present, it becomes on all befitting occasions assemblies like the present, it becomes all thoughtful men seriously to consider what arc the interests involved in the question to be discussed. It is quite dear, when such assemblies are gathered, that the time is past when it is wise and befitting oven in statesmen to treat such questions with neglect. There arc many encouraging circumstances which mark the era of our meeting to-day. We have had, I was going to say, in times past to meet together in order to mingle our lamentations—I will scarcely say so we have met, with grave countenances, and a deep impression of the gravity and weight of the enterprise on which we had entered. We retain that feeling to-night, but there arc other elements which mingle themselves with our conviction of the gravity of o enterprise, and these elements are of a hopeful kind. Our, principles are spreading on every band. Gainsay it as they may, throw contempt upon the public advocates of our primd-' pies as they please,' array against us whatever force of the daily and weekly press they like • no thoughtful and can lid man can 1 ok on the public mind of this country without per- ceiving tlv t there is rapidly diffusing itself a conviction identi- cal with that which lies at the basis of our society's move- ments. It may not be that as yet, to any considerable extent, this conviction has come up to the surface, and influenced the organisations of the land; but within t 10 precincts of tho Established Church itself, amongst the lay members of that Church, if not amongst the clergy, there is spreading, rapidly spreading, a conviction-not, it may be, unfavourable to the Episcopacy of that Church, or to the forms of its public wor- ship—but a conviction that the Episcopal Church of this land is most seriously, most fatally injured by the alliance in which it stands with the secular powers that be (applause). Aud such, therefore, ere long, will become, we doubt not, important auxiliaries in the carrying on of that contest to which we are pledged. But we may go even further than this. The time has commenced in which secessions have taken place (loud applause). We have witnessed one and another (hear, hear) leaving the Church under the force of honest conviction un- wise in the estimation of some, unauthorised, it may be schis- matical even, in the judgment of many, but nevertheless, in the judgment of every impartial and candid man, under the force of honest conviction, at least. We have witnessed gentlemen withdrawing themselves from the public services of that Church upon grounds strictly identical with the first principle of our society. I refer more especially to the Honourable and Rev. Baptist Noel and the Rev. J. Dodson (long continued applause); men whose career it is inspiriting to witness. I merely close by saying that we are thoroughly catholic in our constitution; we have nothing to do with the Church of any man or any set of men, with any theological opinions, or with any forms of public worship. We regard simply, and are alone opposed to, the connexion subsisting between the Church and the State and it is upon this ground that a rev. gentleman is on the plat- form on the present occasion, and will address himself to you on the point. The chairman then called on the Rev. W. BROCK, of Bloomsbury chapel, who moved the first resolution That this meeting, affirming its unabated attachment to the fundamental principle of this Association, rejoices at the measure of success which has hitherto attended its labours. and at the renewed encouragement thereby afforded to persevering and more vigorous effort for the accomplishment of its great object—the liberation of religion from all State-interference." Robert NORMS, Esq., of Bristol, seconded the resolution. The resolution was then put to the meeting, and passed una- nimously. The Rev. John BXJUNET moved the next resolution, as fol- lows "That in the occurrence of recent events in the Established Church —in the revival of intoleraut laws, and the unwonted but consistent exercise of oppressive powers-in the faithful exposure, by church- wardens themselves, of the corrupting and enfeebling influence of State connexion—and especially in the secession of the Hon. and Rev. Baptist Noel and the Rev. John Dodson, expressly on the principles embodied in this Association—this meeting finds grounds for the belief that the period is approaching when Churchmen will be constrained to unite with Dissenters in demanding the separation of the Church from the State." The resolution was seconded by The Rev. Thomas SPENCER, of Bath, whom the Chairman introduced as a clergyman of the Church of England. The speaker, on rising, said I have been invited to take part in your meeting this evening and if, in any respect, I stand in a different position from any previous or succeeding speaker, I am sure that whilst I speak the honest truth, I shall meet with an honest and candid hearing (hear, hear). You have plenty of persons to tell you what they think I am come to tell you what, with my experience, I think and if I can help you in pulling the Church from the State, whether under the name of Church Reform," which is my banner, or under the name of the Anti-State Church Association, which is your banner, I wilLpull that Church from the State with all my might. I know, from sad experience, the mischief occasioned in this land from thousands of clergymen not having in their heart or head the principles of religious liberty, and yet who have, by their position, the power to keep down the minds of those who are placed under their charge. It is a terrible thing, especially in small towns and villages, for a plain man, who needs every help, in order to boablc to live, to find that if he thinks and speaks for himself, he is told by a man in authority, "If. you differ from me, if you go to a Dissenting place of worship, or read a Dissenting book, or a Dissenting newspaper, or if you put a Dissenting handbill in your window, you shall not have the allotment, of land, you shall not belong to my clothing club, you shall have none of my gifts—no tea, no sugar, no coals, and the like. You shall, in Üct, be excommunicated, as far I as I am concerned. And this excommunication is no light thing in a small town—to come under the power of an ecclesi- astical personage, who is intimately acquainted with all who are in authority—with all who are rich and groat. But even in London people are not entirely free from this. I have not often had the opportunity of hearing clergymen preach in this city. Last year, when ia London, and thinking about taking up my abode in the neighbourhood, I wanted to know what kind of doctrine was preached in a handsome-looking new the I certainly did not expect much from him, for he had a proud look, and a high stomach, and he walked as if he had a church steeple in his throat (laughter). It was the last Sunday in September, and he began his sermon thus:—"Next Friday being dedicated to St. Michael and all angels, we cannot be more profitably employed th ;n is. considering the nature of those angelic beings. Our forefathers went too far in worship- ping them, but posterity has gone too far the other way and it shall be my endeavour to bring you back," &c. lie then went on to describe some of the uses of considering the nature of angelic beings. The sum and substance of what he said I committed to writing, and it was as follows lie stated, that If wo arc alone, we should remember that angels fill our soli-„ tary chamber; if we travel, they are ministering spirits,, to* whom a charge has been given concerning us, that we dash not our foot, against a stone if we are in company, we should think of them, and say nothing unworthy of those dignified beings, and be careful that we oifend them not; if we have difficulties to overcome, we should look to them, and derive help from their might and power, and think how easily they could strengthen us for our work if we find our life monoto- nous, we should desire their sweet communion if we are in temptation, we should seek their help if we lie down to sleep, we should look to them to guard our beads if we are in sick- ness, we may trust to their smoothing our pillow; and if we die, they will carry us to a better world." Now I thought, if angsis had so much to do, we had only to look to angels, and care about no other power. I thought, therefore, what a mi- serable position we were in, when we could hear such false- hood from the pulpit without being able to reply. Mr. Nonius rose to order. After what had been said by the previous speaker as to the fundamental principle of the society, he submitted, with great respect, that the rev. gentleman was out of order especially when it was considered, that there might be friends of the society, or persons in the room, who did not consider the views mentioned by the speaker to be f¡Jsc (cries of No, no"). The Cn.uii?.iAN If it be that the society is committed to all the words ana sentences uttered on this platform, then, un- questionably, the present speaker is out of order but, as I do not so understand the matter, I think some degree of freedom r should be given. At the same time, permit me to suggest to Mr. Spencer, that that latitude of course is only a latitude within certain limits hut I have not the slightest hesitancy in confiding most irnplieitly in his discretion (applause). It will be for him to bear in mind the strictly catholic character of our association. The llev. Mr. SPKKCKR continued It is not well to answer an argun ent until it is heard. We arc in a free country, and every or.e should be left to the free exercise of his own mind. Now.with regard to the preaching of such doctrines, as I have alluded to in the Church, it may, he said, if we cannot publicly answer them, Ave may do so privately, !>y circulating tracts and the like. I have received a letter to-day from that excel- lent man, Benjamin Prisons, of Ebley, who mentions a cir- cumstance respecting a tract on the potato blight, which I like very much. The clergyman of the district finding that one of his "parishioners had dared to read it, wrote this insi.le the cover.—" I do not know to whom this tract belongs, but as I found it in the house of one of my parishioners, over whom the laws of this hmd and the law of God have made me a shepherd and overseer, I think it my duty to denounce it as a most noisonous, wicKcd, unscriptural, and devilish publication" (hear, hear). There is but smaH hope, therefore, of bringing light into the dwellings of the people by such means. I come now- to another clergyman—the Rev.' Baptist Noel, whom I heard preach on the 23th of May. He then supplied an an- to. a quesdon which has often been put to me, and which might perhaps be put to any clergyman who sees the evils in tho'Church of which he is minister,—" Why not come out from amongst them ? Why not listen to the command, Come out of her, my people,'and go and join some other body?" Mr. Noel's sermon was from the text, And he shall send his angels to gather in his elect from tae.-ihur winds, from one end of heaven to the other." He said, this gathering did not imply locoltlotion,hut simply a change of mind, and state; and that the coming' out from amongst them might be complied with by a man in the Church as much as by one who seceded from The real meaning was expressed by ou:- Lord when he said. ■" I pray not that they may betaken out of the world, but that they may be kept from the evil." What- then is the course which a man ought to pursue r He ought to protest, and to use every influence in his power to remove every abuse I from the Church, to separate the Church from the State, and -— — —— 1 restore liberty to the people. But can a man do that if he secedes, and leads a quiet life ? When a person leaves the Church, and never lifts up his voice against its evils, the Church is only strengthened by his secession he has taken away part of the power of reform. By and by, perhaps, he becomes rich, and his children, loving that which is aristocratic, go back to the Church again, and perhaps become ministers in it, and thus strengthen and support it. What course did the prophets of old pursue ? He then instanced Moses, Samson, Elijah, Da- niel, and others who used all efforts to reform, but not to secede. Now what I wish to show you is, that there is not a single per- son here, whether he be a seceder or not, who is anything but a member of the Church of England, as by law established. As to the true Church of Christ, all Christians are members of it; but as to the Church of England, which is a corporate. body, supported by the taxes of all, governed by the House of Com- mons, which represents all, or which ought to represent all, and which, by and by, will represent all, if men work in the right direction, and when it does, religion will soon be free (cheers)—I say that every man is, by the law of his country, identified with the Church, and he cannot extricate him- self from his responsibility. I do not say that he must not worship in another place, or form a part of another society; but what I mean is, that if he thinks he can call himself by another name, and that he has no share in the guilt of all the evils of the Established Church, he makes a great mistake. I believe that some who are out of the Church are more guilty of the evils of the Church than some who are in it. Now I .believe that this quiet state-although it may be intended to preserve spirituality of mind—does more to confirm the evil than anything else. Mr. Macaulay, in his History, says that the tyrant James hated the Puritans because of their bold acti- vity in preventing his bringing back tyranny but that, the Quakers were his favourites, because it was a part of their prin- ciple not to meddle with politics-because they declared that, however great might be the tyranny of a prince, the people had no right to resist. William Penn, great and good as he was, was a favourite of James II., for he stood quietly by, when people were burned at the stake, and thus, though he did not mean to do so, gave weiglart and sanction to the deed. I hold that every man should feel himself guilty in the sight of God of every national sin, and responsible for every reform that ought to take place as being called upon to come to the help of the Lord against the mighty, not having an easy life, but having to wrestle with principalities and powers, against spiritual wicked- ness in high places. I know it is an easy thing to talk of evils at a distance. I know very well if Exeter Hall had been required, to talk about things a thousand years ago, or a thousand years to come, they would not have feared an assembly there. At pre- sent, the objects of the Anti-State Church Association are liable to be misunderstood; it is supposed that the Association is anti-episcopal, in the same manner as "Anti-Corn Law" means against the Corn Law, and anti-slavery means against slavery.. Now, I consider a Church Reformation Society might, by and by, be formed. I am only throwing out suggestions for the Z, consideration of the council or conference. The Rev, T. THOIIESBY said the Anti-State Church Associa- tion was not a Church Refotmition Society, and he submitted that the rev. speaker was out of order in referring to that subject. Mr. GIUFFIN said, Mr. Spencer was only putting the question of Church reform as an argument in favour of the separation of Church and State, and on that account he thought he was quite in order. The Chairman having ruled that the speaker was in order, The reverend gentleman continued When I accepted the invitation given me to be present at this meeting, I said I could do nothing but what I could do honourably as a elergyman. I could not from the outside of the Church make an attack upon it to destroy it, but I have sworn that I will endeavour to ba- nish all erroneous and strange doctrines from within the Church. The rev. speaker then read an extract from a pam- phlet written by him respecting the right of the people to elect their own ministers. He recommended the formation of various committees in connexion with the Anti-State Church Associa- tion to study different branches of the question. He said he would have a committee to investigate the legal meaning of the union between the Church and the State, in order to see that when a separation took place it should be effectual. He would have another committee for the revision of ecclesiastical docu- ments—the Prayer-book, and the like. But the great thing to which he would have their attention given was, the property of the Church, that they might know exactly what they proposed to do with it (hear, hear). He did not pretend to say what the- revenue of the Church amounted to. As to people being suf- fered to hold their livings for life, he thought some restraint should be put upon them, and that they should not be suffered, to preach what doctrines they pleased in spite of their parish- ioners. There should also be a Parliamentary committee. ■' Nothing in ~s -o" coma De effected but through-- Parliament. The committee ought to endeavour to enlist members of Parliament on their side, to abrogate ecclesiastical courts, and to remove the bishops from the House of Lords. The work was the work of every man in the country, and no man could relieve himself of the responsibility attached to him. Every man was guilty so long as he remained quiet; but God would help all men who came forward to do the work within, their reach (loud applause). The collection was then made. While the plates were handed round, the Chairman mentioned, that at- a Ragged-school meeting, held in the vestry-room of St. Andrews, Ilolborn, at. which the Lord Mayor presided, a letter was received from Mr. Robson, the rector, stating that he objected to the vestry being occupied for any such purpose, more especially as he had re- ceived a communication from the Bishop of London, to the effect that he deemed all the Ragged-schools which were connected with the City Mission to be but so many hot-beds of Dissent (cries of shame"). Yet this, said the Chairman, is the poor man's church (hear) The Rev. Mr. STODDAUT next addressed the meeting. He said I do not appear on this platform to advocate the great cause of this meeting—the cessation of State control over the Church-upoa any underrating of many individuals among the, hierarchy and clergy at whose feet I should be content to sit to profit by their spiritual instruction. Nor do I undervalue the good that is effected by the Establishment, to the extent that it goes but while admitting much that is good, I feel strongly that the effect of State control over the Church in a more latent manner produces a great preponderance of evil (hear, hear). With your permission I will, for a few minutes, point out a few of the relations in which that evil of State cor, trol takes place. I would first regard it in the relations of the religious life godward. I maintain that the control of the State over the Church gives a stereotyped promulgation to all the evils that have existed in previous ages, and forces the present age to inherit the errors of the dark ages that are now gone by (applause). Wnen I name to you some few of these errors, you will be convinced at once that I have grounds for what I say. I would name the doctrine of baptismal regenera- tion (hear), the doctrine of apostolical succession (hear), and the Athanasian falsehoods, as evils which tho present age is obliged to inherit by the stereotyped promulgation of a Church which is under State control (applause). Next in our relations to the Saviour, I maintain that by our subordination to the State, by our subjection to the civil magistrate, we Jay aside the headship of Christ (hear). And in our relations as Christian brethren, the State, by upholding one class of Christians, and exulting them over others, is producing much animosity and bitterness of feeling, where there would other- wise be brotherhood, Christian leve, and men in honour pre- ferring one another." Amongst the laity themselves the system produces the most fatal effects. It hands over the laity, oi.7 cl hand and foot, to the dictation of their ill-judging rulers. They cannot, they dare not, exercise any lively interest in the disci- plino of the religious body to which they belong. It I-u-"v be said, that this is lamcntabl)- the case as it results, but that it is not necessarily so. I proceed, in a very few remarks, to show that it is necessarily the result of State control. I have long wished tnat it maybe altered. I argued for Church reform, thinking it could arise while the Church was united with the State. I declared that reform was necessary, and have sacri- ficed some of tho dearest interests which a man can sacrifice in order that it might be carried (applause). I have 11011", 11 clr C, clearly to tiie conclusion that it is hopeless to expect it to be carded so long as State-Control exists. And why ? Because the very parties from whom it might be expected any refomia- tion should arise, are the most compromised in resisting it. If you look at the State corporatcly, what do you find ? It hag said to the Establishment, You teach certain doctrines, and uphold such a form of Government, and we will endow you." Can you expect, therefore, that the Church will set aside the very stipulations upon which they were endowed r When you lock at statesman individually-, you see the amount of natronaae they possess; and the means they have to uphold their secular po wer by tho influence of that patronage, prevents them from taking any effective steps to reform the Church. Ecclesiastics, when you look to them, are also bound. When you lock at the laity, you find tliern the willing tools of the system—the base and enslaved—who dare not say their soul is their own against their parson (hear, hear). With such to work with, it is perfectly hopeless—I had almost said, imprae-' tieable—to hope for Church reform while th2 State control exists. If the evil is to be removed at all, the axe must be boldly laid to the root of the tree (loud applause). 'Tho fact is, so much evil exists, that it might be said of it, Truth is fallen