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i Saturday's Proceedings.

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i Saturday's Proceedings. Thehaanog was resumed on Sitarday I morning at 10 o'clock, wh n De Marcus Sinolair Patterson was the first witness called for the Association, and his qualifications ware seal out by counsel as follows: Dootcr of Medicine with gold medal for a Thesis of his year, a Bachelor of Sargery, a member of the Royal College of Surgeons, Felfow of the Royal Sooiety of Medicine, Licentiate of the Royal College of Physioians, and a Medical Director to the King Edward Welsh National Memorial Association." Ia answer to questions, witness said he| was formerly house physician at Bromp- ion Hospital for Consumption, assistant. resident medical offlser at the same hospital, and finally resident medical effiaer. He was at 10 first superintendent of the Brompton Hospital Sanatorium at Frimley, a position which he occupied for seven years. He also was a mem bar of the Departmental Committee on Tuberculosis, and a member of the Advisory Council for Medical Research. At the International Congress held at Washington in 1908, he was awarded the first prize for an essay and exhibit on sanatorium treatments of early cases of tuberculosis, and another first priza for an essay and exhibit of a hospital for advanced cases at the same congress. At the International Congress of Hygiene, held in Germany in 1911, be was awardei the Ehren dip!oma for an exhibit showing sanatorium treatment of tuberculosis, and had also written ex- tensively to standard works on this sabjeot. j Continuing, Dr Patterson said he had Vlsiled the principal sanatoria in Great Britain, Europe and America, and had been frequently consulted by architects with reference to the construction of Panitoris and in the selection of suitable sites. Hs was the author of the treatment of consumption by way of graduated rest and exercise, and that treatment was car- ried out by him at Frimley with great scoceis, Describing how his attention was called to Pias Llangwyfan, witness said that whilst staying with Mr D S Davies at Plas Castell in Dseember, 1912, he noticed a spot where there was no trace of snow, though all other places were covered with it. That spot was Plas Llangwyfan. He had previously seen the spot, and had been impressed by it, but what he saw in Dseem- ber satisfied him that the place appeared to be a veritable sua trap, and was an ideal place for a sanatorium! and he recom- mended it as such to the Association. It was the best site he had seen anywhere in North Wales. Questioned as to the prospect from Plas Llangwyfan, witness said there was an exoelUot broad view to the north, south and west, which gave a great feeiing of openness. This of oourse was a very im- portant factor and had a very beneficial I effect upon the mental conditions of tuber- culosis patients. The Vale opposite Lian- gwyfan was very expansive, and the slope I of the ground was jast the right one for the buildings, and the patients woald in no sense feel shut in. An ample supply of water was available a qaarry on the pro- perty would provide the necessary building materials and graduated labour. There was a gentle ascent to the mountain, and every privacy, which greatly helped good discipline. Mr Artemus Jones As to the fear of infection which Mr Bohrens mentioned yesterday. What do you say to that ? Witness My own view is that open air danger of infection is practically nit. My I opinion is that there is not the slightest ground for fear. The building will be at least half a mile by road from Mr Behren's house, and the unanimous resolution of the departmental committee is to the effect that a properly conducted institution for the treatment of taberoulosis is not a source of danger." Replying to further questions, witness related his experiences at Frimley. There, as here, an objeation was raised by the owner of the adjoining property, his house being within a quarter of a mile. In spite of his protest the sanatorium was ereoted, and afterwards the person men. tioned and his family became the best friends of the institution. The man told him that the fears he had entertained were not in any way realised. The alternative sites mentioned by Mr Bahrens were not in any way comparable to Plas Llangwyfan, The institution proposed to be pat up would afford accommodation for 150 adults and 30 children. Counsel: It has been suggested that these children would be wandering about I and mingling with the village children and thus bring infection to others. Witness: That is one ot the things that I mast be prevented in a sanatorium, where a child is isolated daring the time that he could inoubate the disease and transmit it to other children. As regards discipline among patients. Are stepa taken to instruct patients to take care as regards infection ?-YBs. And they are provided with flasks in which they can deposit their sputum ?— That is so. We have heard ot something about the Welsh nature and the Saxon nature. What is year knowledge as regards the Welsh people being patients of this kind ?—They are better than the olass I have dealt with before. More amenable to reason ?-Not quite so crafty (laughter). Was it at yonr instance, and yours alone, that the Llangwyfan site was brought to I the attention of the Association ?—Abso- lutely. Concluding his evidence in chief, witness summed up his reasons in favour of the Llangwyfan site as follows:—(1) One broad | beautiful view, (2) fgunnineab, (3) seclusion, ? (4) excellent water supply, (5) that it r would not be interfered with by anybody, | (6) that there exists a unique opportunity I of carrying out graduated exerelaes, (7) [ that there was no possible danger of in- fectlon to Mr Behrens and his family. In cross-examination, Mr Atkinson asked whether Mr Behrens had offered to buy Plas Llangwyfan from the Association. j Witness said he could not say. I Mr Atkinson expressed surprise at the answer, and atked further whether it was not a fact that Mr Bshrens bsil offered to buy it from the Association for the sum I they paid for it ( £ 4 000), and had also promised to give an Gxtra R500 to meet any expense they had gone into ia connection with the purchase. Mr Artemus Jones said that the Associa- tion itself piid nothing for the site because of ths g»nerons action of Mr D S Divies in giving it. The susa paid was 94,350; Mr Davtaihavfng ia the first instance promised I the purchase money ap tJ the sum of JE5 000 (applause). i Wiineaa. replying to farther questions, admitted that there existed obj ectonl I among a section of the popnlaoe against sanatoria, but their objections were not justified. IliMr Atkinson Assuming that the Asso- ciation has the ahoice of other first olass sites, would it not be their daty to go to one where by cloing so they woold beinliot- ing the minimum amoano of Icjary to other people ? Witness No, it would not. Woald on suggest the maximum then P —Neither (laughter). Then yoa would go to none of them ?-I would go to the site which would be beab for the patients. As a doctor, my business is to get the patient) well, and f I would only consider the bait site to get them will. I w mid leave the other iiile of the matter to basins aa men. I woald not consider the other people at all (hear, hear and laughter). Witness s&id he considered the existence o? footpaths on the site and near it woald no1! be an argament again it pa'ting ap a sanatorium, although they might consti- tute some kind oi an obj motion. A long argument ensued between counsel tute some kind of an obj motion. A long argument ensued between counsel as to the footpaths, Mr Artemus Jones contending that the obj actors had not proved that they were public paths and that a public right of way exhted. "-The Commissioner upheld Mr Artamas Jones, and Mr Atkinson sail he would, later on, call evidence on the point. Dr Patterson, continuing his evidence, said that expectoration by patients on footpaths woald not be a souree of danger. It the f jotpatbs were In the middle of the country, tbe danger was practically nil. ¡ Mr Atkinson: It does not matter, I take it, whether it is in the country or town ?— Oi, yea, it does. The question of v; lighb ooalea in; bacilli die in the light Having such a large site as Plas Llan- gwyfan, the patients could be kept within the bounds of the sanatorium. Concluding his examination, witness gave his reasons for rejecting the Pentre and Ffon B3Ua sites. They had not the southerly aspect of Pias Llangwyfan, nor would they have the same amount of sun. WHAT HAPPENED AT ABERGELE. Mr E H Milhurd, assistant overseer and clerk to the Abergele Council, said that a public inquiry was held iu that town two sears ago as to the proposal of the S mth Manchester Gaardians to establish a sanatorinm at P as Uabs. The or inhabitants, including himself, were np ia arma against lb, and the opposition was very bitter beointe of the fear of infeotion, and that it woald serioasly ir j ue the town as a seaside resort. Tue site of the sanatorium was interseotad by many paths, j and the plaee itself was in close proximity to Abergele. Mr Arbsmai Jones: Has Abergele been mined ? Witness No, the other way about. It has been suggetted here that the I Abergele sanatoria en" had caused depre- ciation ot property. Is that a fac* ?— Nothing of the kind. Mr Birch told us yesterday that he was unable to sell any land owing to the I existence of the sanatorium ?—That would be dae to the excessive price asked for it, I perhaps. We have now deigns of appli- I cations for houses in fact more than we ever had before. The sanatorium was within two fislds of Sir Herbert Roberts' residence, and he never objaoted to it. Mr Taliesin Reea, recalled, explained certain details on the plans, and said it would be quite impossible to carry out the&e plans on either of the alternative sites. The sanatorium at Heswell, referred f to by Dr Nathan Raw, had not affected house property in that district. Mr E Rogers Jones, also recalled, proved the existence of pablio footpaths and roads on the Fron Bella site. FIVE MEDICAL WITNESSES, Dr Thomas Roberts, Couaty Medical Offiser of Health for Denbighshire, said he agreed generally with the medical evidence already given in favonr of the Llangwyfan site. The water supply was excellent. Dr Ernest Williams, Medical Officer for Flintshire, said the Llangwyfan sLe pre- < sented unusual advantages for the purpose I of a sanatorium. He did not think there won d be any fear of infection. Dr D J Morgan, Medical Qfliser for Glamorgan, said the Llangwyfan site was so sitaated that all the available sanshine could be collected by a sanatorium. From r this point of view it w s perfect. Dr Rocyn Jones, Medioal Officer for Monmouthshire, gave similar evidence. In every essential, he said, the Llangwyfan site was better than Pentre or Fron Bella. Dr Bardswell, another eminent authority who had served on the Parliamentary Da- partmental Commmittee, said he had had vast experience in the treatment of tubercu- losis, and had travelled the whole of Europe to atady the subject, and sana- toria in particular. He had visited the three sites in question, and found that Pias Llangwyfan site was a remarkably fine one in every respeot. From his ex. perience he could assure them that there would be no danger to the public or any-, one living close by from the proximity of a sanatorium. He knew of several sana- torlas in populous districts, and although the people living close by were averse of them at first they eventually became their warmest supporters. This closed the case for the Associa- finn. THE FOOTPATHS. Mr Atkinson, on behalf of tha objectors, called Mr Trevoi* Jones (Pat h-street), Mr Hagii Williams, Denbigh, and Mr David Jones, RhiwbobyU, who p oved having made use ot the footpaths in the neighbour- hood over twenty years ago. All were open to the public. COUNSEL'S ADDRESSES. Me Atkinsooj in addroehing the Com- missioner, said one casual fact ooold not be overlooked, viz,, that a tremendous amount of money would be lost through deprecia- tion of Mr Behrens' property and that of MidS Mainwaring. The very fact of having a large building near these properties, with a large colony of patients working Ai; graduated exercises, was bound to affect the telling value of property in a locality, and that would be a great injury to the owners. The fact that the site was inter- sected by so many public footpaths should also have great weight in the decision of the Commissioner. What was the use of inflicting this trnneosssary injury on Mr ..hrn¡ ? Beoause that gentleman OJn-

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