Carnarvon and Denbigh Herald and North and South Wales Independent

FOR CONCILIATION AND THE EIGHTS OF NATIONHOOD. GREAT MEETING AT BANGOR. MAGNIFICENT SPEECH BY MR LLOYD-GEORGE. THE JINGO MOB BREAK WINDOWS. A DASTARDLY ASSAULT. The meeting announced to be held at Bangor, to hear the views of Mr D: Lloyd-George, M.P. for the Carnarvon Boroughs, was duly held on' Wednesday night, and in anticipation of a threatened opposition, strong forces of police from all parts of the county and from .Anglesey were drafted into the city at an early hour in the afternoon. Colonel Ruck was in command, and they were assisted by Superintends Harries, Rowlands, and Jones. The previous day, the war party had been actively engaged in stirring up feeling against the meeting, and the walls had been placarded thickly with large posters in bold type headed "Nonconformists and the war," giving extracts of the speech delivered at Louth, on the 6th inst., by Mr R. W. Perks, M.P., the leader of the Nonconformist party in the House of Com- mons, in the course of which the latter said:- "He had seen no reason to alter the opinion he expressed, six months ago, at the outbreak of war, that the struggle upon which England had involuntarily entered was a just and necessary one, and that the real issue was not merely whether the Dutch or the English should rule South Africa, but the far wider and more mo- mentous issue of the maintenance of the British Colonial Empire (cheers). It would be a mis- take to suppose that any large or influential sec- tion of Nonconformists sympathised' with the views of Mr Courtney, Mr Lloyd-George, and the Stop-the-War Committee. How was it possible, in fa.ce of the powerful representations made by almost every Nonconformist minister and congregation in Africa, that they could do so, when Colonial ministers of religion declared almost to a man that the Boer Administration was grossly corrupt? It was not the habit of the Liberal party in the old d'ays to decry and { distrust their country, to flout Colonial opinions, f to attribute sordid and paltry mercenary mo- tives to every statesman with whom they differed, to bolster up corrupt oligarchies, and to telegraph their 1 sympathy to England's enemies (cheers). Their party might be beaten at the next election, and it would be far better that they were out of power for half-a-century than that people with such opinions should hold the helm of the State. But if they were beaten at the polls, it would be the duty of those mem- bers of the Liberal party—and they were by no mean the minority, either in Parliament or in the country—who believed in a free, tolerent, and unaggressive Empire abroad, and' a progres- sive policy of social and educational reform at home, to organise their forces, waiting confi- dently and patiently for the day when the country •would call Lord Rosebery back again to power." The placards are placed side by side, whenever cpostsible, wLth the placards anniooincing Mr Lloyd-George's meeting. and the quotation from Mr Perks's speech is followed by the following in large letters —"What do Mr Lloyd-George and the pro-Boers say to this?" Admission to the meeting was by ticket, and although the meeting was advertised to com- mence at half-past seven, nearly all the avail- able space in the body of the hall had been occupied at the, strike of seven, and there was a igooctly crowid outside who kept themselves amused by shouting Hurrah, and cracking jokes which were not at all times complimentary nor in good! taste. There were nearly sixty ladies and gentlemen on the platform. Mr Lloyd-George, who had been in the town since the previous day, caused the packed audience to rise to a pitch of enthusiasm by coming in through the front door, and pluckily making his way through the crowd along the whole length of the hall to the platform. This undoubtedly. had its godd effect, ioir the audience recognising the pluck of the hon. mem- ber, broke into a ringing cheer, and it was only when he passed into the ante-room that a few Jxiases were heard. This was at twenty minutes past seven, and for the remaining ten minutes, the audience kept remarkably quiet and silent, waiting patiently for' the reappearance of the leading actors in the drama. Someone struck up "Soldiers of the Queen," and was joined by about a dozen voices, but there were loud cries of "Chuck him out," and the first part of the audience led by Mr Pentir Williams with re- markable presence if mind, struck up the Welsh National Anthem, in which almost the whole audience joined. It was a masterlv stroke, and, undoubtedly, saved the breaking up of tho 'meeting at the outset, and each time the war son- was pitched, a louder voice gave the concert note of the dear "Hen Wlad fy Nhadau, and unity was restored without trouble. Mr Henry Lewis, the chairman of the meet- others were warmly received upon their ap pirance. A few'hisses at the rear of the Lldinj attracted some attention, bmb Mr -Henry Lewis immediately appealed to those in front' and all the friends of law and order. He hoped they would not get up and stare. There was nothing so unmannerly m church and chapel than for people to turn back their heads tod look vacantly. He wo<uld take it as a breach of goodi manners if they turned their heads at all to see who was making a noise be- hind. because unfortunately in a meeting like this greater commotion was created by cunos- itv than bv those who were guilty of it them- selves (-beers). They were all aware that this (meeting had been convened m order' tc-give their representative an opportunity of giving an account of his stewards' for Mr oy George had been very faithful (cheers). And he came to Bangor once a year, in order to give ran account of hi's doings in Parliament, and this was one of those occasions. They could not blink the fact that some of their best friends doubted the expediency of his coming^ there, but there were two reasons why it was impera- tive that he should! come (hear, hear). In the first place, they were in a crisis in the history of the country, in connection with the war hich was now unfortunately taking place, and which was dragging aloncr its weary length, and the issue was even at the moment in the bal- ance. There was ai time coming soon when they hoped and believed the British arms would succeed (cheers), and when they were called upon to settle the question for all time the dif- ficulties that had troubled them for so long in South Africa (cheers). Now, in view of that settlement, he put it to them that mow was the time to consider what they were going to do, not when. in the flush of victory, suffering from the losses they had under,one in .order to en- sure victory, not when carried on the waive of enthusiasm, and sometimes on the wave of pas- sion as well, or was it nob now that the time had fl'Triv-^d to ed'ii'cat-e each other, and to be better prepared when the time came to give a just and proper,solution of the question. That was Mr Lloyd-George's contention, and there- in his committee agreed with him. Now was the time to educate the country in order that th-ey might be able to know what to do when the t.imo came for the nation to ask fo,r a settle- ment. The second reason was, because tfireats had been uied repeatedly, which had a tendency to frighten! men who were tim;r! of spirit and of resolution frmn IloJding- a meeting to listen, to their own representative. Immediately they heard of these threats, they draided that thev had no alternative but. like brave and resolute men, determined to insist irpnn their rights, and to invite their representative, in order to give him a hearing (cheers). That was one of J the chief reasons why the meeting was being held. In order to show that they were not afraid of threats of any sort when they wished to hear their own representative giving an. ac- count of his own ac-tions in Parliament. Un- fortunately, meetings similar to this had been broken up in other parts, of the country, but he did not think any meeting had yet been held during the crisis which was precisely the same as this. The meetings which had been broken up were not exactly the same, for a British sub- ject from South Africa was trying to show how things really stood. This was the first meeting in which a representative was anxious to ad- dress his electors, and had to do so under threats that he would be prevented. He hoped they would give at patient and respectful hear- ing, whether they agreed' with him or not. Mr Henry Lewis then went on to say how the meeting would be conducted1, and said that every fairplay would be given at the close no move an amendment, or to ask questions. He then read the following letter from Mr W. ijonjes: "House of Commons, April 10th. Dear Mr Pentir Williams,—If it were at all ne- cessary, I would gladly come to-morrow night face to face with Bangor Liberals and! support Mr Lloyd-George in what is the most promm- ent of all the manifestations of freedom, rhat of public meeting. Mr George now, as ever, his strenuously upheld what he conscietMi>u»ly believes to be right. As a true and stout- hearted Parliamentary representative,. he wishes to confer with his Liberal electors, so that they also may know what he belfeves straightway from his own lips. Despite these evil days of slander and threats, the gag on the press, and free opinion, I have yet to learn that Welsh Liberals cradled in the doctrine of freedom of speech, and of conscience, which is as dear as the breath of life, will give a respectful hearing to one who in the past has championed their cause to victory in many a gallant fight, and who has the courage and the power, God willing, to do yet greater and nobler work for their sake a.nd their principles in the future. Let passions be put aside, and sober judgment prevail. For "this is true liberty when free-born men having to advise the public may speak free." Nicll oes arnaf ddim ofn na chewch gyfarfod teilwnig o Rydd- frydwyr sy'n caru rhyddid barn ac onestrwydd amcan. Cofion gwladgar, William Jones." A telegram had also come to Mr Lloyd-George from Corwen, saying, "Hearty sympathy. Wish him successful meeting. Cernyw Williams and other ministers at Corwen." And another from Mr S. R. Jenkins, a respected and valued Con- gregational minister, who was recently at Ban- gor, saying, "Success to your stand on behalf of freedom of speech." Mr Henry Lewis then proposed, "That we, as loyal subjects of her Majesty Queen Victoria, hereby express our deep satisfaction at the escape of his Royal High- ness the Prince of Wales from the recent at- tempt upon his life, and we offer our sincere congratulations to him upon his safety." This was seconded by Dr Evans, Brynkinallt, and carried amid cheers. Professor Davies then, in a lucid clear speech, proposed the second resolution, which was as forows :That! this meeting of the Liberals of Bangor reasserts the right of British citizens to free discussion in public and in private, and expresses its indfign'ation that her Majesty's Government finds excuses for those who assault in property and person peaceable citizens in the exercise of their constitutional rights." He said, until very recently, a resolution of this kind had for a long time been unnecessary at their public meetings throughout the length, and breadth of this land. They enjoyed1 the right of free speech as all free men and law-abiding citizens ought to enjoy, none therein to dis- pute. Recent events; however, which were well known, had laid upon them the necessity of re-asserting their rights, and of protesting against the manifest reluctance on the part of the Government to suppress obstructions and disturbances at public meetings. Now, tney were compelled to take this step by their sense of consistency as Liberals. They would be un- faithful to their principles and untrue to their traditions if they had not taken this step. They could not afford to shut their eyes to the at- tempts which had been made to stifle public speech, and to intimidate men into silence when their conscience bade them speak (hear, hear). Others, with less noble traditions than Liberals might do so, but Liberals could not when their liberty was threatened, for by their very pro- fession of Liberalism they existed for liberty and free speech (applause). They, were further actuated in taking this step by their deep and ever-increasing sense of the enormous cost at this great inheritance had been secured and bequeathed to them. Men had toiled, suffered, and died in order to secure this great and pre- cious privilege, and the memory of the past compelled tkem to take this step (applause). They wanted this liberty for another day. They had not done with it, and they could not afford to be indifferent with regard to events where their liberty as citizens was imperilled. Their task was not vet ended. Liberalism had done great things in the past, but the greatest of all was yet to come--(applause)-and come it would on one condition, that it retained its free- dom of speech, without which, they could de- pendi upon it, the d'ays of Liberalism were num- bered, and its glory must inevitably wane (hear, hear). Why had not the Government taken, steps to put an end to these disturbances, by which respectable citizens, loyal subjects of the Queen, had been howled down by the mob? Some of them bad been roughly handled by the rabble for daring to defend what i-hey-honestly believed to be just and right (hear. hear). Why had not the Government taken steps to put an end to these disturbances? Why did not the power that enacted the laws see that they were properly administered among the people? Why had it sacrificed the law-abiding citizen to the lawless? He could not tell. but he could remind them of a weighty suggestive remark made the other day by a keen -observer of men, who asked, "Was not this an indication of an uneasy conscience?" (cheers). Was not this tardiness in suppressing riot due to a feeling of dtead lest fatal truths might be .made known? He was not going to determine whether that was right or not, but the madness of the mob, and the disturbances which had taken place in meetings where it was sought to stifle public speech, and to prevent men from giving expression to their convictions, and discharge duties which were to them sacred and imperative, must be accounted for. He did not wonder that men who had been persecuted in that fashion in the discharge of their duty drew such inferences as that. What they claimed -was, f airplay for all people to say what they believed, and to express their opinions clearly without fear of being perse- cuted. It was their duty to protest against I this breach of their privileges, which were too dear for Welshmen to lose (applause). Pro- ceeding in Welsh, he added Dear Welshmen, we do not know how soon we shall require free- dom of speech in a case of much greater im- portance to us than the extension of the Empira and this war in South Africa, and if we do not protest against the attempt's to stifle it let us for ever betray Liberalism, and give up our rights even to be called men (loud applause). Mr W. Huw Rowland, in' seconding, said that the last time he stood upon that platform, -it was to recite "The Absent-minded Beggar" (cries of "Turncoat"). No, he was no turn- coat. He would do the same thing to-morrow, if need be, and -if they put a five-pound note to- wards the .sufferings of the poor soldiers (loud applause). It proved rather that he was no bigot (hear, hear). He felt proud of his native city that night, because he saw Liberals present who differed from him, and many good friends from the other side (hear. hear). He felt pro-odi for this reason that whereas other towns had lost their heads, in Bangor it could be said that .they did not deny what they profegsed to be fighting for in South -Africi (applause). They professed to be fightinsr foj; fairplay and free- dom of speech, and they thanked Heaven that in Bangor at any rate they had got it (ap- plause). The motion was then put. and carried unani- 'I mously. Mr J. Pentir Williams then proposed: "That this meeting emphatically condemns the policy of Mr Chamberlain, which has led to the disas- trous wa.r now devastating* South Africa, and causing the loss of so many thousands of brave lives, and whilst it is of opinion that it is in the interest of South Africa that disarmament and the concession of complete equal rights be- tween the white races should follow the con- clusion of hostilities, it protests against any settlement which would involve the suppression of the national existence of the Republics." This was briefly seconded bv Mr Stephen Jones. i Mr Lloyd-George, who, upon rising to address the meeting, was received with great enthusi- asm, said that he desired to thank the meeting for the very kind welcome which they had ac- corded to Mr Bryn Roberts and himself. He had come down to address them, and he felt certain that, if there were parts of the country refusing the elementary rights of citizenship, Bangor was not one of those places. After it had been suggested in some of the Welsh papers, but more especially in the English papers, that freedom of speech was to be denied him at Ban- gor, he felt it incumbent upon him, for the sake of the character of his constituencies, to come down and prove that it was not true (applause). Of course, there were differences of opinion among Liberals. A. Conservative was a man who got somebody else to think for him- (laughter)—and what that man thought he was compelled to think. But as Liberals they thought for themselves and they could not pos- sibly get a body of thinking men to agree upon everything (hear, hear). They had come there that night, in a spirit of reflection, he hoped, to thresh out one of the most important problems ever submitted to any meeting or constituency for consideration, ^iil he begged of them was that they should listen to what he had to say. If they did not agree, there would be every freedom for them to move an amendment. If they disagreed it would be open for them to express their opinions. In any case, nothing was gained by mere inarticulate shouting (hear, hear). The. only people who could gain so were Tories (laughter). He did not object to any in- terruption provided it be articulate and re- levant (hear, hear). It was over twelve months since he had addressed them before, but the fault was not his. When he returned from Canada, some of his friends thought it would not be desirable for him to address two meetings so near each other. But he was there to tell them what he had done, why he had done it, and why he meant to do it again (great cheering). He was not going very much into the origin of the war that night, but would ask them to consider some of the main agreements they proposed to take up one settlement (hear, hear). There were two most significant events in connection with this war which were so full of meaning and of food for reflection. The first was the assistance given them by the Colonies (cheers). Yes, but did they know what that meant? Never in the whole history of their connection with the colonies had they given them such material assistance in a struggle between the empire and another power (hear, hear). This was the first time they had done it to any sub- stantial degree. Never in the whole history of the colonies were they more independent of our control. Take Canada for instance. It was nominally under the control of the Crown and the Imperial Parliament, and yet, neither the Crown nor the Imperial Parliament would dare to interfere with the legislative power of the internal government. If they wanted to realise how thoroughly independent of our control the colonies were, he would give them an instance. Quebec was a province of Frenchmen and Roman Catholics. They had a parliament of their own; its proceedings were carried on in French, and the proceedings in the courts were in French. More than that—(A Voice "Are they not in I England?"). That was a ridiculous observation. Gentlemen who when told that French was the language of the courts in Quebec asked whether French was not spoken in the courts in England I were those who said that this war was a right- eous war (laughter). The Roman Catholic re- ligion was established in Quebec. Contribu- tions were enforced towards the maintenance of that religion. In this country we had a pro- testant Sovereign and a Protestant Parliament. If the Imperial Parliament were legislating for Canada, did' they think that they would estab- lish the Roman Catholic religion there? This showed that Canada was practically indepen- dent. Let him carry the argument further. The Canadians claimed to be a separate nation. They might be Scotchmen, Welshmen, English- men, Irishmen, or Frenchmen, but they were Canadians first. The Prime Minister was a Frenchman. He came over to this country to celebrate the Queen's Jubilee, and in one speech he declared Canada to be a separate nation. But Canada, which was independent, and never I more independent, tendered assistance to this empire in the hour of its need (cheers). Let them come to Australia again. The case of Australia was still more significant. Australia taxed our goods exactly as if they were foreign, and what made the illustration still more signi- ficant was the fact that at the present moment Australia was asserting its independence against the authority of Mr Chamberlain (applause). Australia was repudiating the interference of the Imperial Parliament in her new common- wealth. They formed one Australian federa- tion, and as such there would be questions to de- cide between one province and another. And what did Australia say? They would not have the Queen in Council to decide these questions they I insisted upon having authority to settle these matters for themselves. That proved that if they wanted supremacy the very worst way to I achieve it was to assert it (applause). If they went to Canada and Australia and said "the British Government is supreme, we are free traders, we cannot allow protection," would Canada stand it for an instant? Would Australia stand it? No (applause). It was because they had allowed perfect freedom that the colonies were now standing side by side with the British soldiers (cheers). The second point he wished to emphasise was the action of the Queen with re- gard to Ireland. In his opinion, this had a deeper significance than even its admirers had claimed for it. What did the recognition of the shamrock mean ? It was the emblem of Irish na- tionality. Irish nationality had always been re- garded by the narrow type of English politician I hostile to the existence of the Empire. They would do anything short of admitting the nation- hood of Ireland. For that reason the shamrock had been embroidered upon everv rebel banner in Ireland for centuries. Did they know that British statesmen had been hanging Irishmen for ¡ wearing the shamrock? ("Shame"). It had been regarded as treason to the Empire, and every man who wore it had the traitor's death before him. They knew those famous lines,, the most pathetic, the most touching lines in any na- tional poetry, "The wearing of the green" "Oh Paddy dear, and do you hear The thing that's going round ? The shamrock is bv law forbid To grow on Irish ground." (A Voice: "He is only quoting'the 'Daily Mail"). Mr Lloyd George The "Daily Mail" would not print decent literature of that kind (tremendous applause). It would not survive it (laughter and cheers). Don't you interrupt the finest lines that were ever written :— "It is the most distressful country That ever yet was seen, For they are hanging men and women For the wearing of the green." Yes, and that shamrock, for the wearing of which they hung men and women, is now worn on a great Queen's heart (loud applause). What does that mean ? It means that the Queen has found a better way of uniting the empire than her Ministers (loud applause). Proceeding Mr Lloyd- George said that Chamberlain did not understand Irish nationality any more than that of the Boers (cheers). Irish nationality had led to the prison and to the scaffold it was not like the national- ity which Mr Chamberlain liked, which brought office and L5000 a year, and increased dividends to small arms manufacturers in which his re- latives were interested (applause). But the Queen, with the sympathetic insight which made her one of the greatest rulers of the day, said to these men who thought they could buy the affections of Irishmen by lavishing millions on railways and trams, "Out upon you! with your ways to my subjects' hearts, as if you could buy the loyalty of one single true soul with all the millions that ever poured into the British treasury," and by this simple act, fehe had done more in a single day than all her Ministers had done in a lifetime (tremendous applause). It was not for them to ask why the Boer preferred his own simple methods of life, his own simple methods of Government, if they liked. They must respect them. Free trade might have been better for Canada., and Protestantism might be better than the Catholicism of Quebec, English might be a better language than the French J lingo they spoke there, but they must respect people's peculiarities if they would win their faith (loud applause). What was true of Canada, Australia, and Ireland, would be equally true of South Africa (cheers). Supposing the British Empire were engaged in a really great struggle with a really great power, say America—and let them heed, not an improbable contingency' (hear, hear), for one party in America was committed to support the Republics, and some of the leaders I of the other party were going over—what would I happen? What if an army landed in Ireland? There would be 500,000 men with them in a I month (hear, hear, and applause). It meant that they had pursued the same fatal policy in Ireland which they were pursuing in Africa, and which had converted a brave nation who would have died for them into a nation of enemies (loud cheers). He asked them to pause and reflect be- fore entering upon this disastrous and fatal policy. They were at war with the Republics. The question arose, what were they going to do. Some people said, "annex them, wipe them out." Which was the last instance in which that had been done ? It was the case of Poland, which was annexed by Russia in the 18th century, and was England, the home of freedom, the refuge of the persecuted patriots of the world, going to do in the 20th century what Russia did in the 18th? This ought to make many good Im- perialists pause (applause). There was rro justification for such a course. Equal rights and disarmament were a, totally different matter. In order to justify annexation the Government must be of such a character as to be a blot upon civilisation. The Orange Free State was one of the best governed communities in the world. One third of the revenue was given towards educa- tion, and a great past of the rest was devoted to public works. The Transvaal was not so well governed, they had greater difficulties. But they had grappled well with their difficulties considering how great they were. The talk about intolerable oppression was absurd. The newspapers criticised the Government freely and scumloasly, and were never suppressed. There was greater freedom of speech than even in Ban- gor (laughter). There was only one meeting broken up, and the Government sent to the pro- moters of that meeting telling them to. hold it again, which they did, and there were no windows broken (laughter and cheers). Joiners and carpenters earned E40 a month there, and miners from JE50 to B40 a month, and they had an eight hoars day by Act of Parliament (cheers). Let them turn to the millionaires at the bottom of this agitation. In the Rand Mines- Co., Cecil Rhodes and Beit had a capital of L332 000 when started. At the time of the Raid, every Li t share; in these mines was worth L45, 10s (api- plause). The South African Goldfields Co., started with a capital of two millions. At the time of the. Raid, the capital was worth 29* millions (applause). In the year of the Raid Cecil Rhodes got £ 350,000 out of that company. Grievances there might have been, but were there no grievances in this country? How old were the grievances in the Transvaal? Ten years,, and because they were not removed in ten years, we had. this horrible war ("Shame"). How long had Wales to wait for Disestablishment? (A Voice "That is a side issue"). Of course! The only real issues for these gentlemen were the affairs of millionaires thousands of miles away (laughter and cheers). The grievances of Welshr men at home were side issues (cheers). When they started meddling in this business, it was coming right. It was only in 1890 that the franchise was put up. Who fought for getting it down to three years but that great old man who had just died fighting for his native land, General Joubert (loud applause), that old man! upon whose honour there was no rust, upon 1 whose bier the British officers placed wreath of respect and admiration (loud applause). General Botha fought for the five years' franchise, and Generals Schalk, Burger and Meyer were our friends, but we had made them the deadliest foes we ever had (hear, hear). They had inflicted j more defeats on British arms than any other general in a lifetime. What utter folly was such a policy (applause). He appealed to the chivalry and generosity of Welshmen especially. The population of the Republics was not more than that of Carnarvonshire and Anglesey. Carnarvonshire and Anglesey against the British Empire! It ought to appeal to our sense of shame (loud applause, and a Voice "Are they not helped by French- men and Germans ?") Yes, but Mr Cecil Rhodes said that such support for the Boecs was in- significant, and Mr Wyndham said in the House of Commons that it was not more than five or six thousand. Cronje's resistance was such that he did not believe there was anything in the world that showed such desperate courage (ap- plause), and that ought to appeal to the chivalry of any nation. It was said that the Boers were guilty of inhuman practices, but they only got one side of the statement. Charges of using expanding bullets were made against the Boers. The expanding bullet was the bullet of the Brit- ish army up to July last (cheers). Did any one challenge that statement? No! We had used! them against Dervishes and Afridis, but we discarded them simply because they expanded our own rifles before they got out (laughter). The Boers captured some of them. It was time they had used some of them, but they were our own! What would the war cost? Sixty millions, it was said. Would any one prophesy "that it would not be nearer a hundred millions? There were four thousand British dead ("Brave men"). Yes, brave men, braver than those who simply broke up meetings (great cheering). What about the Boers dead ? He hesitated1 to compute, lest he offend some of his Christian friends who were not satisfied with the figures. When told that there were only 100 men found dead in Cronje's laager, some of them got angry, and referred to a paragraph from an obscure correspondent, saying that hundreds of the Boers had been drowned in the Modder River. But the dead were mounting up, and still they did not kill enough for these men. Lyddite that was their hope. It killed a hundred men on one acre. But that would not satisfy. There was Kitchener. Sou 50 > CM) Dervishes at Omdurman ( fc>hame ). But Kitchener was not coming up to the marke. What was Lord Roberts doing? (loud cheers). Yes, no man could admire Lord Ro- berts chivalry more than he did (cheers). He would not join in those insults flung at every brave general the moment he did not kill enough to satisfy these people (loud cheers). But Lord Roberts had waited a month at Bloemfontein, and Sir Redvers Buller, another brave general, six weeks at Ladysmith. Yet there was one general who did not tarry—Death! They had heard talk about workmen's dwellings and old age pensions. They could have had a pension to every old man in the land, and built 300,000 workmen's cottages with the money spent on this war. This was the record of the Govern- ment he was there to protest against (loud ap- plause). But they would never crush Boer nationality. In the war between North and South America, men of the same blood and religion fought against each other, but the southern states never became a nation. These two communities had been nations. They knew of the drink believed in by the ancients of which it was said that the man who drank of it be- came immctrtal. When people drank of the spirit of nationhood, it never died (applause). And these people were a nation. History would record their battles as much that no historian need be ashamed to write on the. same page as Marathon and Salamis. In conclusion, Mr Lloyd-George said: I beg of you, I entreat of you not to commit yourselves as a nation to so desperate an enterprise, an enterprise that will cost millions of money and thousands more of I ves. And above all, I do beg Wales to have no part in this. I supplicate my countrymen to have a superstitious horror of it. I fear it for the sake of Wales. I have been asked wh"- should I take this part, and told that my business is to fight for those reforms the Welshmen demand. It is for the sake of those reforms that I beg Wales to have nothing to do with this job (loud ap- plause). There are only 40,000 of these men. Ten thousand have been wiped out, one-fourth of the. adult male population, and the war is only beginning. Mr Winston Churchill said, "the only way you can conquer them is by attrition—killing them one by one, dozen by •dozen, commando by commando; we are strong, we can afford to do so." Crush them, crush them, crush their independence. I beg Wales not to support it (tremendous applause). Do you remember that dramatic storv of the French revolution of the fall of Robespierre? He was supposed to be the man who circumvented the death of Danton. and the day came for Robe- spierre to be put on trial. Robespierre was pleading, and at last, his voice became husky. and someone cried, "the blood. of Danton is choking you The turn of Wales will come to stand at the bar of the Empire. I do wish that when that time comes that she shall not falter from the consciousness of any wrong she has done, an,d that her voice shall not be choked with the blood of the two small nationalities, like herself, that she helped to crush (loud and continued cheering). Mr J. Brvn Roberts, M.P.. who was also warmly received, said that six months aeo, almost to the very day, he addressed a meeting in that hall, and they would remember that he talked about the extent of the Outlander grievances. Not a single fact which he then adduced had been controverted by the sup- porters of the war. He had ventured to predict that the war would not mean a simple walk over and shrank from sending the soldiers of this country to sacrifice their lives on account oi thpse -petty grievances. He had told them that this slaughter would not all be on the one fide and his prediction had been most fatally verified. Was it not possible for them in their calm moments to ask to what purpose this waste had been? Thp whole of the grievances "flS not worth one life lost. On the question of the absolute injustice of the war they were told that since then there had been a considerable change of feeling. He doubted whether the change was as great as people thought., but be admitted that among Liberals and Noncon- formists there had been a modification of feel- ing due to the ultimatum and the discovery of the large armaments of the Transvaal. These made Liberals hesitate to adhere to the views' they were apparently wedded to six months ago,. but there was really no ground for a change. It was said that the ultimatum was an insuft; that we could not endure it and that there was no justification for it, but those' who said so completely overlooked the facts. Mr Goschen lumself was under a total misapprehension as to the dates, for he said that the ultimatum was l before England decided to send a force «f 48,000 men to South Africa. England com- menced to strengthen the army in South Africa in June last with a view of putting coercive pssure upon the Transvaal, and the grave mistake the Government committed was this. entered upon a new course, a ruinous and a fatal course from friendly remonstrances to coercion and threats which she was noi* entitled to resort to, and having started on that fatal incline she had to send more and mora and between June and November the force was strengthened from 10,000 to 24,700 in order to frighten Kruger and the B-oers. They had really never treated the Boers as they ou«-ht to —as an independent Government, entitled, to some consideration and justice. They thought they were a small, weak, puny nation which they could kick without any danger, and if thev had a dispute of a similar nature with any other power that power would have declared war in June last. If they had assembled on the borders of any country in large force with a view of enforcing there demands there was not an in- dependent country that would not have de- clared war at once (cheers). To mass troops to back demands by force was in itself a casus belli, but England did more than that. The Boers made a remonstrance but they received an evasive reply and on the 29th 'of September England decided to send 48,000 man in addi- tion to the 25,000 already there, with a deter- mination that there should be no bungling this time, but double as many were necessary. All this was announced in the papers, but no pro- clamation was made calling Parliament together until the 7th of October and two days after- wards the ultimatum was issued. It was simply a request that we should remove our troops and not send any more. We called that insulting as if any nation would not have acted as we had under the circumstances. The hon. member tfhen went on to deal with the history of the Jameson Raid and what led to it, alleging the Chamberlain and prominent officials in South Africa. The Jameson raid had undoubtedly led to the present war, but what had caused such an expenditure of money I and loss of lives (hear, hear)? The Boers were convinced that Mr Chamberlain was behind that 'I raid, and that he allowed the preparations to go on without a word of remonstrance. Annexa- tion to England meant annexation to Rhodesia, + £ i co1nsP^rators in the Transvaal knew Ui&t the little finger of Rhodes was thicker than Kruger s arm, and so they refused to raise when he expected they would. The speaker then pro- ^borate at great length the evidence which, he alleged, proved Mr Chamberlain to be cognisant of the raid and approved of it. It was nonsense to think that Mr Chamberlain knew nothing of the raid; or, at all events, to think that Mr Kruger could believe that he ¡ knew nothing of it. He maintained that the army of the Transvaal was intended to repulse an attack from England. Until the war was declared there had been no suggestion of a I Dutch conspiracy. This country was really ignorant, deplorably ignorant, of the real cir- cumstances of the South African case. Those who thought with him were really fighting, as the Boers were fighting, Jew capitalists. Even 1 PaPers in England, supposed to represent Liberal and Nonconformist views, had been bought up, and were now really representing J the views of Jew capitalists. He was in favour ) of peace on terms honourable to the Transvaal 1 Sf we- as England If they annexed the Republics it would be a disgrace to this country, a disgrace to Christianity, a disgrace to civilisation (applause). The' Chairman invited questions, and a mem- ber of the audience asked whether certain papers had not been suppressed in the Transvaal. J Mr Bryn Roberts, replying, said some papers had been temporarily suppressed because they taught sedition. On appeal, these orders were quashed, and the papers reappeared. Another question asked was how much of the 260,000 collected last year by the Trans- vaal Government had been devoted to educa- tion ? Mr Lloyd-George: Quite as large a propor- tion as was given in Great Britain (applause); ) and a Voice: "I have nothing to do with that." Mr Lloyd-George: That is the attitude of I these gentlemen. Unfortunately, our greatest I concern is with Great Britain. These gentlemen I are concerned with their little quarrels of their own in the Transvaal, and when it comes to fighting they run away—6000 miles away (ap- plause). A man recently returned from the Transvaal wanted to know what proportion of the men engaged in the mines earned L40-a month, and how much they had to pay for board and lodg- ing? The Chairman refused to permit the question to be put. Mr Howard Lewis (son of the High-sheriff) asked if the resolution as worded would pledge the meeting to a policy against annexation? The Chairman answered in the affirmative. Mr Lewis then moved an amendment deleting I the last clause of the resolution, and substi- tuting for it the words—"That we desire the most generous treatment to Boers, blacks, and British in the Transvaal." He maintained that the only alternative to annexation was to hand the country back to the Boers with a repetition of all the evils of the past. Mr Hurren Harding seconded'. He maintained that the Boers had proved themselves unworthy to be entrusted with self-government. His re- marks were loudly applauded. My Lloyd-George, in replying, said what they wished to guard against was the establishing of a second Ireland in South Africa. Military occupation would involve a standing British army of 50,000 in the Transvaal for many years to come. The amendment, on being put to the meeting, was lost by an overwhelming majority. The I original motion, on being put, was carried with practical unanimity. Professor Arnold, of University College, moved that "This meting expresses the con- fidence of the Liberals of Baiigor. in Mr Lloyd- George, M.P-. as representative for the Car- narvon boroughs. The Rev T. J. Wheldon, B.A.. seconded the resolution, which was carried amidst applause. req