Carnarvon and Denbigh Herald and North and South Wales Independent

DENBIGHSHIRE. QUARTERLY MEETING AT WREXHAM. The quarterly meeting of the Denbighshire County Council was held on Friday, in the county buildings at Wrexham, when the follow- ing members were pJesent :-Ur Thomas Gee (chairman), Mr Samuel Moss (vice-chairman), Sir Watkin Williams Wynn, Bart., Sir Robert Cunhffe, Bart., Colonel Barnes, Mr Myddelton Biddulpl1. Captain Griffith-Boscawen, Captain Best, R.N., the Rev Ezra Jones. Colonel Main- waring, Messrs R. Humphreys Robert,, Christmas Jones, W. Coward, John Jones, Thomas Jones, W. Lumley, W. Lester, W. Thomas, W. D. W. Griffith, Thomas Parry, J. Porter, W. G. Dodd, Richard .Jones, O. Isgoed Jones, Dd. Jones, Richnrd Hughes, Robert Hughes, Thomas Morris, O. Williams, Henry Williams, W. Davies, K Rogers Jones, J. David Jones, William Willinms, J. Roberts, E. lloosou, Edward Roberts, Bn mho: Benjamin Harrison, J. C. Edwards, Simon Jones. W. Charles Hughes, Edwin Bellis, W. Trevor Parkins, T. A. Wynne Edwards, P. C Storey, John Pritehard, W. E. Samuel, and J. E Powell, with Mr Llewelyn Adams (clerk), Mr Roberts (assistant clerk), Mr LJoyd Williams (county surveyor), Mr E. W. Jones and Mr R. B. Adams (district surveyors), Major Marcel Cmrun (county treasurer), and Major Leadbetter (chief- constable). VACANCIES AND FORMALITY. The Chairman said that in consequence of the death of Mr John Jones, of Wrexham, and the disqualification of Mr Daniel Roberts the Council would be asked to declare the offices held by those persons to be vacant, and to take the necessary steps te fillthem. Nothing more could be done that day than declare the offices vacant, inasmuch as the usual notice calling attention to the t wo vacancies tiad not been forwarded to the olr>rK. The usual notices would be given before meeting. .1 r l.^gued Jones asked to be allowed to i.) t; e matter now. Tti- loiiiraan said he could not do so as he •v, 11 i he "lit of order. The Clerk said the notice declaring the vacancies must be signed by two burgesses or two members of the Council, and sent to him. He recommended that the matter be deferred until it was in proper order. Mr Isgoed Jones said that one member had been disqualified. What became of his dis- qualification ? The Clerk He ceases to act. Mr Isgoed Jones said the disqualification was reported at the last meeting of the Council. Were they not in order in filling the or.e vacancy. The Clerk said no, it was necessary to have notice. Mr Humphreys Roberts remarked that it was a matter of regret that the clerk had not got the necessary notices signed. The Clerk said it was not his duty to see that the notice was given. Mr Humphreys Roberts said that as a "matter of form he thought the clerk might have taken this upon himself. The Clerk: There are so many matters of form for the clerk, sir (laughter). The Vice-chairman asked whether the Jouncil was to understand that someone would give notice. The Clerk said he would take care that the matter was put right. The Chairman said the death of Mr John Jones caused vacancies on three committees, the byp-laws and standing orders, the boundaries, and the finance committees. Had any gentle- man a proposition to make ? Mr Prichard thought the vacancies had better be dealt with at the next meeting. VI r D. Jones proposed, and Mr Trevor Parkiiis seconded, that the filling up of the vacancies be deferred. This was agreed to. THR MAIN ROAD COMMITTEE'S REPORT. The quarterly meeting of the main roads com- mittee was held at Denbigh on April 22nd, when there were 27 members present.-Ou the motion of Mr J. W. Lumley, Mr John Thomas, of Chirk, was elected chairman of the committee, and he accordingly took the chair.-Col. AlairAwaring was elected vice-chairman, also on the motion of Mr Llumley.-Mr R. Lloyd Williams, county surveyor, having submitted his report, Mr R. B. Adams, in his report for the Denbigh district, referred to the difficulty he had experienced during the ye'lr of maintaining the roads in an efficient state owing to the long spell of wet weather, and its severe character. As the supply of the road material at present was not equal to the demand he suggested to the committee the expediency of purchasing a portable stone breaking machine, which could be removeo from one quarry to another as occasion might require. The roads in the Denbigh district were I in a favourable condition; in the Abergele ) district H'ey were not ill a very satisfactory state, although a larize amount of metalling had been used ot late; in Llandegla and Bryneglwys district they were in a favourable state, and in Ruthin district they were in a satisfactory srate. During the quarter he had incurred an addi- tional expenditure of S2,5 in cutting through snow-drifts, the roads in some parts being totally impassable. Several of the roadmen had asked for an increase in their wages. His estimate for the current year was £ o'J71 lis 4d, including £ 30 for finger posts, and he required £ 500 for wages during the current quarter. The com- mittee having considered the report, appointed a committee, consisting of Col. Mainwanng, and Messrs John Thomas, J. Coster Edwards, E. Roberts (Brymho), Thomas Gce, Thomas Parry, and Owen Williams to consider tine expediency of purchasing a portable stone breaking machine. —The applications of roadmen for increased wages were referred to the members of the com- mittee residing in their respective districts, with power to increase them by Is per week. Colonel Mainwaring, in moving the adoption of the report as vice-chairman of the committee, in the absence through illness of the chairman, Mr John Thomas, said that remarks hall been mude as to the length of the main roads com- mittee's report, and the chairman of the com- mittee agreed that it would be advisable to condense what was now a very voluminous report. Each member had in his hand a report which shewed clearly what had been done during the last quarter. Owing to the fact tb.t the present C utcil was to some extent a new Council, and that a dislocation had taken place in its affairs, the meetings of the Denbigh sub- committees were not held, and in consequence of this the main roads committee, held at Den- bigh had an unusually large amount of work to go through, work which they did carefully and as well as possible (hear, hear). They sat from 12 o'clock until 6 30, and some of them eoru. pleted the work on the following moruiny (laughter). He thought the surveyors had certainly done their duty to the- roads, and the roads in his part of the county were in a very good condition, and would compare most favourably with those of adjoining counties (hear, heir). They had had a very severe winter to contend with, but he was glad to say that Mr Adams had been enabled to deal with the snowdrifts in the Denbigh district at a cast of S25. He begged to move the adoption of the report. Mr Edward Roberts, Brymbo, in seconding the motion, said the Council would notice that the estimate of the main roads for the next year was higher than last year; this was owing to special works that were to be constructed during the coming year, especially the bridge near Colwyn Bay. Further observations having been made by Vfessrs LesteT, W. C. Hughes, Hoosou, Sir Watkin Williams Wynn, and others, Mr J. E. Powell referred to the extraordinary expenditure upon the county, and asked whether the rates could not be equalised, instead of being 2d for one period, and 2§d for another. He should like to know whether this extra expenditure would occur next year. Colonel Mainwaring said he thought he could hold out reasonable hope that the expenditure upon bridges would be very much smaller next year. The work of erecting and repairin bridges was being completed gradually. The report was finally adopted. SALARIES AND ELECTION EXPENSES COM- MITTER.-THF, COUNTY SURVEYOR'S APPRAL. This committee met at Ruthin on February 19th, Mr Gee in the chair.—At a meeting of the committee, held on April 13th, on the motion of Mr Hooson it was agreed that Mr Thomas Gee be elected chairman, and he accordingly took the chair.—The Clerk of the Peace presented to the committee the returning officers' charges in reference to the County Council elections held on March 4th last, amounting to S401 2s 4d. The charges pertaining to this district were the fo.liowiuw: -Borough of Denbigh. £33 14s 6d Borough of Ruthin, XI 138 6d. The following is a summary of the bills approved of for some of the county electoral divisions: -Cerrigy- druidion, £6 18s 6d Llandyrnog, £ 4 12s 6d Derwan, X.5 Os 6d; Llanfair Dyffrvn Clwyd, X4 10s 6i Llanarmon yn Yale, E.5 4s 6d and Henllan, £4: 6s 6d. For the boroughs the amounts were as follows :-Denbigh, Eastern Division, if) IVs Gd lleollan, £13 5s (3d; and Ruthin, E4 36 (id.—Upon the consideration of the question of the salary of Mnjor T. J. Leadbetter as chief inspector for the Joint Committee, and of the local authority of the borough of Wrexham, constituted under the agreement entered into between the said authorities under the Contusions Dis-ases (Animals) Transfer of Parts of Districts Acts, 18S4, it was resolved to I recommend to the Joint Committee to fix the salary of their chief inspector at £ 10 10.5 per annum. It was also decided to recommend the executive committee for the remainder of the ) county to take into consideration the question t of the salary of their inspector, in consequence of the transfer from their district of several parishes and townships to the district of the Joint Committee. Previously to these resolu- tions being passed, the chairman read to the committee a letter he hud received from the chief inspector, asking the committee to increase n.s salary from £ 21 to £ 35. The Chairman, as chairman of the committee, moved the adoption of the report. They had the questions of the Lords' Commissioners befor them with regard to the appeal ot the county surveyor, and any information desired iie should be happy to give with the help of the county surveyor, Referring to that part of the report dealing with the expenses of the recent elections, he was glad to be able to state that the expenses throughout the cor.nty were little more than one fourth of what they were at the first election. The amount claimed by the under-sheriff in that case was about £ 2800. This was taxed and reduced to rather more than £150U. lid was glad, however, to be able to say that the expens' s for the last elections were under £ 400. The amount de- manded was L404 2s 41, but there were several items struck out of the account which reduced it to £ 377 12s 4d (hear, hear). l Mr Chrijtmns Joi es seconded the adoption of the repoit. aud after some remarks by Mr Lester, the report was adopted. THK COSTAGIOUS DISKASKH (ANIMALS) ACTS COMMIT I KK. The first met-tin^ of the executive committee of the Count. Council under the Acts (1878 to 1S92; havo,g jurisdiction over the Denbigh Petty Sessional District, met, at Denbigh on March 25th, when Mr Owen Williams whs, on the motion of Mr Gee. elected chairman. -A sub-committee was appointed, and its powers defiiied.-It was I uecided to remunerate the veterinary inspectors at the rate of 10; 6d for each visit and inspection I made at the request of the chief inpecror.-A meeting of the committee was held at Denbigh on April 22nu, Mr Owen Williams presiding, when the report of the chief inspector, dated April 22ud, was read. lie reported that swine fever existed in three places in the Denbigh district, and that with these exceptions that part of the county was free from disease,-Tlie Joint Committee of the County Council and the Wrexham Borough was held at Wrexham on March 24th, when on the motion of Mr W. Pritchard, Mr W. C. Hughes was elected chair- man. Mr Liew. Adams Was appointed clerk to the committee, he to be paid-SIO per annum for convening and attending the tour quarterly meetings of the committee, and £1 lIs 6d for personal and travelling expenses in respect of each meeting, and the sum of X2 10s for attending other meetings.—A sub-committee was appointed and its powers defined.-Major Leadbetter was appointed chief inspector, and a number of others police inspectors.Their pay was also fixed. Mr Oive Williams moved that the report for the Denbigh district be adopted, and Mr W. C. Hughes moved that the report for the Wrexham district be nlso adopted. In reply to the Chairman, the County Treasurer said the expenses in connection with contagious disease tor the year ending March 31st, 1890. were £ 79 4s lid ending 1891, £ 135 Os 7d and for the current year, X225 18s 6d. Mr Isgoed Jones asked if the amount men- tioned included compensation. The County Treasurer said they included everything except printing. The reports were adopted. FINANCE COMMITTEE'S REPORT. The quarterly meeting of the finance com- mittee was held on April 26th, at Denbigh, Mr R. Humphreys-Roberts being elected chairman, on the motion of Mr J. Pritehard, and Mr Simon Jones being elected vice-chairman, on the motion of Mr J. Jones, of Ruthin. Several bills and claims ware considered, and the estimate for the year ending March 31st, 1892, was read. Mr Humphreys-Roberts, in moving the adoption of the report, said that assuming that the Council adopted the recommendations of the finance committee, and recommended that they required for the year a rate of 3;}d instead of 3fa, this vould leave an assumed working balance of S715 2s 8d, making a total of £ 48,425 4s 7d. Mr Simon Jones seconded the adoption of the report. Captain Oiiffith-Boscawen, said it would be satisfactory were it explained why the rate was higher than last year. Mr Humphreys-Roberts, said that one reason was the difference of the amount of the balance in hand. Lust year they started with a balance of £--t)Ql) credit, whereas it was now X2000. The main roids estimate last year was as against £1:30U( which made all the difference. Captain G'ffith-Boscawen Then the increase is caused chiefly by the main roads ? Mr Humphreys-Roberts: By bridges I think chiefly, and main road also. Mr Edward Roberts, Brymbo, also spoke, and the report was unanimously adopted. FUTURE MEETINGS OF THH COUNCIL —AN INTKRUSTING DIVISION. The Chairman said that Mr Edward Roberts, of Brymbo, had given notice of the following re- solutions:—That the resolution passed at the Council meeting held at vVrexhara on February 13th, 1:91. be and that in substitution theretor ti:e following be inserted, 'l'huc the meetings of the County Council be held alternately in eaoh end of the county in the fol- lowing order, March, D-nbigh May, Wrexham; August, Ruthin and November, Wrexham.' I Mr Edward Roberts was proceeding with his speech, when Mr Lester rose to a point of order, and asked whether the proper thing to do first was to res- cind the resolution. The Chairman said Mr Roberts was quite in order. Mr Edward Roberts said be would propose both resolutions together (laughter). He thought it only fair to the members of the Council that tu", meetings should be hold alter- nately in each end of the county. The conven- ience of the members should be consulted. He felt that the Council would unanimously agree to the motion (" No, no "). AJ r Wynne Edwards rose to a point of order. To carry this resolution involved the suspension of a .-landing order which could not be done un- less three fourths of the members present voted for it. Capt Best said this hmd nothing to do with the case. Mr Hooson agreed with Capt Best, and seconded the motion. Capt Griffith Boscawen said that when they looked at the ratable value of the Wrexham Union and the large population, and the fact that it would be convenient for Llangollen, Chirk, and Vfrexham, he thought they had a large claitn in favour of the motion Wrexhlm now had only one meeting in nine months, and this was hardly treating the Wrexham end fairly. He thought Mr Roberts was exceedingly well timed in his motion, and hoped it would be carried. He very heartily supported it. Capt Best thought the matter a very impor tant ore for the Wrexham district. He moved that the votes on this occasion be recorded which could be done if five members supported him (criefj of "no" and "yes"). About a ¡ dozen members then stood up signifying sup- port of tbe motion, which was declared carried. Mr Owqti Williams said be could see no reason for making the change and moved as an amend- ment that no change be made. The Council was the Council for the ccunty, and not for an east or a west end. There was a far greater distance from Llanrwst and its surroundings to Ruthin and Denbigh, than from Wrexham to Ruthin and Denbigh. Mr Trevor Parkins said this was not an amend- ment but a direct negative (hear, hear.) He supported the motion, which, if carried out, would provide a very excellent arrangement. He believed Wrexham ought to have two meetings, and he strongly supported the motion. Sir R. Ounliffe said that in speaking of the whole county they spoke of the people who lived in it, not of territory and hills. He thought the arguments brought forward by Captain Griffith- Boscawen, and other gentlemen, had not been answered. Mr Thomas Parry; Do our Wrexham friends forget there is a Llanrwst in the county (laugh- ter). Thing are going on very well now, but to come to Wrexham oftt-ner from Cerrigydrudion and Pentfevoelas is like coming from the end of the world (laughter). I second the amendment. Mr Richard Jones, Llanrhaiadr-yn-mochnant: I beg to remind friends that there is a Llan- rhaiadr in the county (laughter) and a Liansilin. The chairman said the question to be consid- ered was whether they were likely to have a larger attendance of members at the Council meetings if the place of meeting was altered, than they had at present. He hoped they would in voting upon this subject, consider the wel- fare of the whole county, tlod not their own personal considerations (htar, hear) The vote would now be taken. Mr Wynne Edwards Can I move an am end ment ? The Chairman Sit down, sir. Mr Wytle Edwards: I decline to sit down. I am standing up to record may vote (cries of order and chair). The Chairman: You are out of order. Mr J. David Jones stid Mr Wynne Edwards was out of order clearly. Mr Wynne Edwards: Cannot I propose an amendment ? The Vrice-chairman protested apainst Mr Wynne Edwards's sction, He seemed to be persistently opposirg the ruling of the chair (hear. hear). He thought it was very bad form. Mr Wynne Edwards: Cannot I move an amendment? (Loud cries of "Order"). Mr Lester May I make a remark ? The Chairman: No. The division then took place, and was as folhws :-Ayes, Colonel Barnes, Christmas Jones, W. Coward, S. Moss, W. Lester, W. Thomas, Colonel Mainwaring, the Rev Ezra Jones. W. G. Dodd, Captain Best, Richard Jones, R. MyrldeJton Bidduiph, Thomas Morris, Capt. Griffith-Boscawen, Edward Roberts, B. Harri- son, J. C. Edwards, Edward Hooson, Sir Watkin Williams Wynn, Bart., W. Williams, E. Bellis, W. Trevor Parkins, Sir R. A. Cunliffe, T. A. Wynne Edwards, P. C. Storey, J. Pritehard, J. E. Powell, and W. E. Samuel. Noes, T. Gee, R. Humphreys Roberts, J. Jones, Ruthin, J. W. Lumley, W. I). W. Griffith, Thomas Parry, John Porter, O. Isgoed Jones, David Jones, R. Hughes, Robert Hughes, Owen Williams, Henry Wil- liams, W. Davies, R. R. Jones, J. David Jones, Evan Roberts, J. Roberts, and Simon Jones. t The ayes were declared in the majority, and tne motion was carried. The Council then adjourned for luncheon. PROPOSED CHANGE OF DATES. Colonel Mainwaring, in moving that the standing order No 2 be amended thus, The four statutory meetings of the Council shall be held on N< vemher 7th, or if that day falls on a Sun- day, then on the following day, and on the first Friday in the months of February and May and on the Friday next before the first Monday in August," said that one reason for moving this was because the Council on the first Friday in I August would clash with the Denbighshire and Flintshire Agricultural Society's show, which Y7as to be held at Rhyl, at which many members would like to be present. But there was another reason, that the August Bank Holiday was the greatest holiday of the year, and he was anxious that the work should be quite completed before the holiday came. He thought such a change would be convenient to all the members. Mr te. Hooson seconded. Upon a divison, 19 voted in favour of the motion and '22 against it, and it was declared to be lost. THE MAIN ROADS COMMITTEE. Capt Best moved that the resolution appoint- ing the present Main Roads Committee passed at the meeting of the Council held at Denbigh on March 11th, be rescinded, and that a list of nam ehe thn submitted by substituted there- for. The Chairman said he had great pleasure in seconding the resolution. For the first three years of their existence the business wns new, and it absolutely necessary that there should be one committee representing the two divisions of the county. Now that they had three years' experience and knew what their duties were, one committee he thought W>lS unnecessary. Mr W. Davies supported the motion. Mr Roberts, Brymbo, moved that no alteration be made. Colonel Mainwaring, in seconding the amend- ment, said he was strongly in favour of it. Together with the chairman of the Main-ro ids Com mi ttee, he believed the motion, if carried, would put the Council in a worse position, and be could hardly see how it was to be carried out in a practical way. Mr Humphreys Roberts did not think a change such as that proposed would be beneficial to the Council. Captain Best in reply, said he thought they ought to consider the travelling expenses of the members. Up n a division being taken, 29 voted for the motion, and 13 for the amendment, which was lost. The Chairman said that each committee would elect its own chairman according to standing orders. WEIGHTS AND MRASUITRS. In the absence of Captain Griffith-Boscawen (who was obliged to leave), and at his request, Mr E. Hooson moved the followiag resolution, which xag seconded by Mr Simon Jones, and agreed to That so much of the resolution passed by the Council on May 3rd, 1889, as refers to the delegation to the Standing Joint Committee of the execution as local authority of the Act relating to weights and measures be rescinded, and that this Council, in accordmce with the resolution of the said Standing Joint Committee passed on the 20th inst., do resume its functions under those Acts; also that a weights and measures committee be now appointed by this Uouucil." SUNDAY CLOSING. Mr J. E. Powell, in proposing that a petition be forwarded from the Council to the House of Commons in supp >rt of the Sale of intoxica- ting liquors on Sunday Bill for England, said the weak spot in the Welsh Sunday Closing Act which had worked so well was the ftict that England had not a similar Act. Mr O. Isgoed Jones, in seconding the motion, said lie should bealad to know that the bless- ings of the Welsh Sunday Closing Act had been exte del to England (heir, hear) The motion was carried. ASSIZES. Mr Trevor Parkins moved the following reso- lution submitted by the Montgomery County Council:—"That the Council having been in- formed that certain proposals for re-orginisiiik, the work of the circuits of the judges are now under consideration, which pr.)p 1811.1, if adopted, would involve the removal of the civil business now transacted at the as,isze, tor this county to Liverpool, Carnarvon, or Chester, is of opinion that, having regard to the serious burdens already imposed upon suitors, it wouid be oppressive to compel them to incur the addi- tional expense and inconv nieuce necessarily involved in the trial of causes outside the county, and directs the clerk to forward copies of this resolution to the Lord Chancellor, to the Home Secretary, and to the members of l.arlia. ment for the county und boroughs, and to the Councils of the North Wales Counties." Mr W. K Samuel seconded the motion, which was carried. The Council then rose.

THE CLERGY DISCIPLINE BILL. INTERVIEW WITH MR THOMAS ELLIS, M.P. THE London correspondent of the South Wales Daily News has interviewed Mr Thomas Ellis, M.P., with reference to the opposition offered by a section of the Welsh members to the Clergy Discipline Bill. We extract a few passages:— The opposition to the Clergy Discipline Bill has excited much interest 'n the country, Mr Ellis; would you mind telling me on what grounds you opposed it?" 11 Not at all; I opposed it, in the first place, on the clear ground ot the principle that it is not well in the interest of the State, and least of all in the interest of the Church and or religion, that. matters of spi-itual discipline should be decide,1 by the direction of Parliament and through the administration of bodies such as the bench of justices and the police magistrates." But here we have a Church which, being by law established, should be controlled by the St>ite." "Yes," rejoined Mr Ellis, but we object to the further extension of the principle ot tate interference in religious matters, all the more so because no one can deny that the chasm between Parliament, as it is now composed, and the Church in its administrative and religious capacity, is wider than it has ever been." "But, Mr Ellis, here we have on one litind a State Establishment, and on the other a number of contumacious and immoral clergy, who should be disciplined and punished. Why i4hould you oppose a BiJi whicti has for its aim the suppression of immorality amongst clergy- men r" To tell us that by objecting to a Bill which we believe wrona in principle we thereby encourage immorality among the clergy is merely an ad captandum argument. It is exactly the same kind of argument as that employed against Mr Gladstone and his followers when it was said that, by objecting to H Coercion Bill, they encouraged moonlighting and outrage." Does this exuaust your objections to the Bill ? 11 Far from it; never before in the history of Parliament have there been so many social and industrial questions of deepest munenf and concern to vast masses of the people of this country before the House as at the present fine. Reforms demanded repeatedly ■ and urgently by hundreds and thousands of men and women require to be carefully and deliberately discussedprior to being placed upon the Statute Book, but the Government cannot, or will not, find time to give adequate discussion to any one of them." Then, I understand, you object not only to the principle of the Bill, but to many of its details as well ?" Most certainly take, for instance, the pro- vision that only those clergy who may be punished with hard labour nre to be deprived of their cure of BOU8. A couple of magistrates in deciding, say upon a case of assault by a clergyman upon bis servant gifl, or upon some crime such as is contemplated in the Bill, are given the most invidious alternative. They may sentence a clergyman guilty of such conduct to a months' inpris mmeut with hard labour. This sentence would deprive the clergyman of his I living and of his cure of souls. But they may also sentence him, say, to twelve morths' in- prisonment without hard labour, In that event the clergyman would continue to hold his living to (Irttw 1:is £ .300. £ -100, or of titles and when his termofimp tsunmentwas ended lit) c,,ii-id comfortably resume th:j cure of souls within his parish, and if he had merely gone on a twelve months' voyage for the sake of his health. This single instance is sufficiene to show how ridiculously crude the Bill is, and how it introduces iito the administration both of piritual and temporal discipline that element of uncertainty and capriciousness which is the ■vcrst feature of a bad administration of the law. Objecting to the Bill iu its principle and in its details, bad you any further ground lor opposing It P" 14 Yes I had. I recorded my vote against it in furtliei- protest against the scandalous partiality or the (joverdraeilt in dealing with Eilb alfecting 'he various religious denominations in this country. Wales well knows of the grievances under which Nonconformists suffer with regard to sites for places of public worship. Mr Balfour strongly opposed Mr Samuel Evans's Bill on this point. He wes defeated bv 2 to 1, and then absoutely refused to commltt the Bill to the krand Gumtnittee on Law, which would have iv n it a chance of passing this session. When, in order to avert a s'milar defeat, he allowed Mr John Eilis's Bill on the same question to pass a second reading, be relocated It to a selected committee, a well-known Parliamentary means of shelving and strangling the Bill. Mr S. T. Evans's Bill is demanded hy thousands of Welsti electors. Its urgency is i.'roved by such esses as that now occuriivj at Llanbrynmair. All this is ignored, but when this Bill (it the bishops is brought before the House of Commons. Mr Balfour as Mr Glad- stone nimselt said, holds, the pistol to our hpd", insists on our saying 'Aye' or,' and then refers the Bill to the Grand Committee on Law, aud as a matter of fact gets the Committee set up for first time this Session in order to deal with it." I see that you were not generally supported, even by the Welsh Liberal party P" "That may be so. This is in no sense a special Welsh question, and, of course, it was not so discussed at any of the meetings of the Welsh Liberal party." "But was not much of the opposition based on the assumption that the passing of the Blil would remove a strong argument for disestab- lishment? No, most certainly not. No such assump- tion was entertained by any of the speakers on our side. As a matter of fact, several of them pointed out that so far as the general question of disestablisbment was concerned this Bill would certainly widen and strengthen the move- ment in its favour, by bringing into it a large number of clergy, and an increasing body of opinion in the Church from amongst those who strongly believe in working for larger freedom and greater power over its discipline within the Church itself." If Then tbe opposition to the Bill is not con- fined to Nonconformists ? "By no means. The organs of the most in- fluential, and probably the most hord-working section of the English Church, strongly objected to it." What further steps do you propose to take in opposition to the Bill ? Now that the Bill has passed its second read- ing we shall take all steps in our power to make it a reality. Mr Allanson Picton and Mr S. T. Evans are already members of the standing committee on law, and among the seven mem- bers added to day to the committee for the purpose of considering this Bill are Mr David Thomas, Mr Lloyd-George, and Mr Wynford Philips. They will place amendments to several of its sections and sub-sections, they will argue them, and take the sense of the committee upon them. This is the next step to be taken, and when the Bill emerges from the grand com- mittee we shall then further consider what action should be taken on the report stage in the House of Commons." PRESS COMMENTS. In the interests of public morality and of our common religion we are glad to note the second reading of the Clergy Discipline Bill in the House of Commons on Thursday week. The aim of the measure is to facilitate the removal of "criminous" clergymen from the cure of souls. Mr Gladstone s speech in its favour was simpl unanswerable. As Nonconformists we do no believe in State Establishments of re- ligion, but so long as State Churches exist, we cannot in conscience refuse to remove a pre- mium on clerical profligacy. We profoundly regret that any colour should have been lent to the i ea to which The Times gives prominence, that Nonconformists "are ready to promote scandals in the Church of England because they desire to see it disestablished," The idea is one that is abhorrent to the conscience of every religious Nonconformist, The cause of dises- tablisbment is certainly not promoted by tucUcs of the kind that dictated opposition to this Bill. The Independent. The writer of rotes from Wales in the Mer- cury observes: A section of the Welsh Liberal party is in full revolt. The fate of criminous clerks has almo-t become a Welsh ques- tion. Though defeated in the House hy ten to one, Mr Thomas Ellis and his friends are deter- mined to continue their opposition to the Bill. Tiey have already put down 27 amendments, which will be discussed in committee, and when the Bill reaches (if it ever reach) the reports stage, it will be persistently opposed at every point. Mr Ellis has explained to an interviewer that he disappioves of the Bill on principle and as to its details. As if this were not enough, he also justifies his disapproval as a protest against the manner in which the Houso deels with Nonconformist questions. To clinch the matter, Mr Ellis has declared in a London public meeting that Wales will not be dictated to from Huchenden, Hawarden, or Hatfield, either by a brilliant novelist, an Homeric student, or no amateur chemist." It is so seldom that Mr Ellis condescends to such language th,it (wne may I regrpt his description of Britain's last three Prime Minsters, and for once he would have done well to have dropped his hV. It is evident that Mr Ellis feels strongly upon this matter. and believes that the question is important enough to necessitate and to justify an attitude of persistent revolt even against the leader of his own party. Mr Lloyd-George produced an amendment affirming that Parliament ought not to deal with spiritual malters. This was far too sublime an ethical position. The House of Commons has never been able to attain to such a standard as that. Though it easily collapses into the ridiculous it rarely even attempts to soar to the sublime. Mr Lloyd-George saw his trans- cendental amendment defeated by nearlv ten to one. It was, perhaps, a particularly provoking little piece of humour in his speech which exasperated the House. For he suggested a reference to Convocation. Grave as this sounded in reality it was finely ironical. For the absurd position of the Convocation of the Church is a standing grievance of the clergy. Were the Church free, Convocation would be a splendid and powerful institution. As it is. it is a poor little discussion class trying to look august, and imposing, and is about as much like the real Convocat'on would be as a local club where voting men play at mock Parliament is like the House of Commons.-Christian Commonwealth.

FATAL ACClnNT TO k RAILWAY GUARD. MR GRIFFITH JONKS, goods train guard on the Cambrian Railway, was killed at Welshpool Station last Wednesday evening. Owing to the rush of two passengers into the train when in motion. Jones ran up to close the door of the compartment after them, and in trying to jump into the van he dipped and fell on to the rails. and the train went over him. He was conscious when picked up Some brandy was offered him, but he refused it, saying at the same time that, he was dying.

T'HS FINANCIAL DIFFICULTIES OF THE SALVATION ARMY. GENERAT, BOOTH, in an appeal to his "dear friends and comrades says;—"I am sure that I do not need to make any apology in telling you mat our lunds tor both the spiritual and social branches of our work are more that) ex- hausted. Cnly those who are ignorant of the Rigatilic nature of our undertaking will be sur- prised, and only those who are altogether opposed to its objects will be otherwise than deeply concerned to learn this." Finally, the General says And what you do will you do quickly ? I leave for a visit to Switzerland, Germany, Denmark. Sweden, and Norway on the 24th of this month, and it will certainly be a matter of grave anxiety to go away leaving the funds in their present condition."

MAGAZINES OF ALL SORTS AN2 8TZES are bo md neat y and economically at the Herald Office,) Carnarvon

CORRESPONDENCE. THE JOINT NATIONAL COUNCIL. To the Editor. "M't Slit,—In your leader of this day you say— b arreu spoxe without book wheu he said, &e.' Permit me to say that I did not confouo" thQ two involvriii by any* in^&us. contrary, I strongly differentiated theoo. likuig the co!our of the selected -which appeared purely political—I said tW the County Council could not confer upon C0"1" ruittee that which it did not possess, n*raMf political power. Section 3. at the very beginning of the declares what the powers conferred are. OutsW these powers, no County Council in the kingM* can move. These powers are absolutely •"u^trative. Political power is carefully e*„ cla f>a. "The powers conferred by this AC» are frequently referred to. Section 10 eXpresrff refers to the •' administrative powers coa" tarred. r bit The result of the whole discussion was the deputy-chairman read the instructions 1Jd to the committee at length, for which I hode asked, and comparing these with the operstil section of the Act, nothing was found ia con veution of section No. 3. de4 A gentleman who followed me,however,allu^^ s fie to the same committee appointed two He complained strongly of the contempt which it had treated the Council—never hav»» thought it worthy of a single report. insisted that it should report to the Council proceedings, aud let the Council take initiative. This entirely confirmed me in my strol# objection to thit. mischievous motion. It »» £ attempt, to over-ride the whole Act, by introduction of politics by a side issue. proved the utter futility of the whole tb»w # oouncus iiflvo clerks, xiiay can commtini^f with each other directly, without the ue -essiW of their deliberation* first being filtered tbrouft" committee, to decide on what the Co^D" Council may or may not ducuss. 0' Mr Issard Davies drew attention to the r It ceedings of this committee, as reported B to newspaper, clearly p.-ov;ug its political obj1^ These proceedings were never reported to Council, If those gentlemen like to accept a watebior brief for watching the operations of other couuties, from various parts of Wales, at tB« own expense, and duly keepiug within 8eC^1< 3 of the Act, they may report their to the Council—or not. ihe only undign' things about the whole arrangement—in opinion—^was the appointment of sach a mittee at all by the Council, which declared itself in need of the protection of members to take care of it; and the useless^ °f't to which I have drawn atteution, J Should it appear that the committee pa.-s these limits, it will be time to take actto^ —Yours truly, GEORGE FARREN- Carnarvon, ifth May, 1892. [Our correspondent apparently regards ticai and legislative" as synony^ terms; but for this, there is no genel^ recognised authority. Even yet, he app to apprehend imperfectly the import of 10 an i 81 of the Local Government Act» the action which the W el sh County Coun have taken in pursuance of them.-ED.). USDEB FALSE PRETENCES. To the Editor, Sir?,—Kindly give me an inch of your SP^ to call attention once more to the vexing holiday question at Carnarvon. To prolong the agitation Dy a uselessly sided process, is a very silly thing to do. carry that process on under false pretences very disgraceful tactics, and these are now tried. A petition is again in circulation, idl- ing Carnarvon tradesmen to sign it, and there"* pledge themselves to close for half a day week, independently of the "six" tradesmen object to the holiday as impracticable as present suggested. Now, to speak of mere, "sl\L as opposed to the innovation is to appeal 5* false pretences. The fact is that seven or times six Carnarvon tradesmen have stireodl signed a petition against the movement as at pre: sent recommende t and forced upon the trad00' men, and the attempt thit has been made duriw the last few days to briug undue influence the tradesmen of the town :'s (to say the unworthy of the supp rters of this ulove went. In conclusion, let me warn my fellow men against this door to door petition." this movement is to be carried through succe" fully, it will be done only by the themselves in an-upright and straliglitforwAt4 maniaer.-Yours truly, SEIONT- ONE AMONG WANT IN "THE O[G \S or MR GEORGE. To the Editor. ,-ryt.-It is not true that. I was present at' caucus meeting of Conservatives on the day of our County Council meeting. J. ISSARD DAVIBS. The Archornge, May 13th.

RI .VIEW OF THE FISHING INDUSTRY. THR total weight of the fish landed on the West coast of England from Sennen to Maryport _8 699,725 cwt.. and their value including shell-fl-911 was £ 608,471. The quantities and value of tbg fish landed from the local fishing grounds at the following ports were as follows Quantity Value, Value, excluding excluding including shell-fish, shell-fish, shell-fish. Port. Cwt. £ £ Carnarvon 1851 2949 2949 Hohhead 179S 2311 2350 Bangor* 2427 3075 7530 Rhyl 308 607 1059 "lue statistics ot hsh landed at Llantairfecnan Aber, Benumdiis, and Menai Bridge are also ip. eluded with Bangor.

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