Carnarvon and Denbigh Herald and North and South Wales Independent

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. THURSDAY.—APRIL 11. HorSE OF LoTIDS.-Tiie House of Lords met this day for the first time after the recess, but adjourned in less than half an hour, the onlv business done being the reading, for tlie first time, of some bills brought up from the lower house. HOUSE OF COMMONS.— County Courts Bill.-Pe- titions were presented by Mr. Beckett, from Yorkshire Sir n. Lopes, from Kingsbridge Mr. Thornely, from Nottingham; Mr. B. Denison, froin Yorkshire; Sir J. Johnstone, from Acton; Mr. Moody, from Somerset; Mr. Cobden, from Doncaster and Machynlleth, Mont- gomery; Mr. Frewen, from Sussex, in favour ot this bill. Parliamentary Voter* (Ireland) Bill.-On going into committee on this bill, Lord CASTLKREAGH with- drew his amendment for raising the franchise qualifi- cation for voters from 81. to 121. rating, but announced bis intention of proposing a 101. rating when the bill Came up for the third reading. Lord J. RUSSELL stated, as the result of mature consideration on the part of the government, that it was not their intention to add the ra ed inhabitants of the outlying districts and neighbouring towns to the constituencies voting for the return of the members in certain boroughs, as laid down in a schedule proposed by Mr. French. A miscellaneous conversation followed this announce- ment, alter which the committee proceeded to discuss the clauses of the bill. A considerable progress was made, with the insertion of only u few verbal amend- ments. On the 57th or "appeal" clause, a prolonged dis- cussion took place upon an amendment proposed by Colonel DL'NNE, enacting that objectors as well as claimants should possess aright of appeal to a judge at assize exempt from the discretion of the revisiug barrister. The committee divided, For the original clause 102 For tiie iimendment. 33 Majority 69 The discussion of tlj(,- remaining clauses occupied some hOllr. during" which various alterations were sug- gested and adopted, but none presented any point of general interest. A second division took phiee on the 110th clause, which Mr. Co NOLLY moved should be struck out. The numbers were— F-r affirming the clause 125 Against it 42 Majority 83 The remaining clauses were tiien -one through, and several additional provisions having been discussed and added to the bill, the house resumed. Distressed Union Advances (Ireland) Bill.—Lord J. RUSSELL moved the second reading of this bill, when Colonel SlimiOFtp alluded to some returns upon Irish topics which fit- had asked for, but which, though the government held them in their hands, they 'were to I-ey before the house. He objected to any further additions to the Irish loans, not because he cared for the paltry sum of 300,0001., but because he 1 ooked on it as a bribe to Irishmen to submit to mis- government. Ile niove(I ttizit tije liouse should at once adjourn. After an appeal from Mr. FRENCH, and some ex- planation by Lord J. Russell, Mr. J. 15anKES referred to the almost exclusively Irish constitution of the house as it appeared at the moment, as a reason for postponing- the further consi- deration of the measure. Colonel DUNNE coincided in recommending tiie ad- journment, because he did not wish to have an im- portant Irish bill discussed at so late an hour, midnight having now arrived. Mr. S. HERBERT referred to the allegation that a loan to Ireland signified a jrift, which he declared to be a calumny, and offered to pro re it by producing the returns ot money received in repayment of advanced to that country. Mr. Fox repeated the vindication of Irish solvency, which the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER confirmed, but re- marked upon the absurdity of introducing a discussion upon the whole state and past monetary transactions of Ireland upon every occasion when a bill referring to the country happened to be before the house. Lord BERNARD opposed the adjournment of the measure. Lord J. MANNERS hoped that a better opportunity to discuss the "Condition of Ireland" question would be hereafter afforded. Lord NAAS joined in that hope, and Lord J. RUSSELL having briefly alluded to the dan- gers of delay, the house divided— For the adjournment 23 Against it 131 Majority 108 Colonel SiRTHonp, persisting in his objection to a hurried procedure with the bill, moved that it be read a seeond time that day six months. Kir. SPOONKH, however, superseded the motion by moving that the debute should be adjourned. A rtpici and animated conversation ensued, during which the house appeared to become excited and impatient. At last a secolld division took place, when the adjourn- i ment was negatived by a majority of 134 to G, The bill was then read a second time without discussion. The judgments (Ireland) bill was then read a third time, and the house adjourned. FRIDAY. HOUSE OF LORDS. — Lord CAMPBELL brought in -.t bill to amend the rules of special pleading, which was: read a first time. Earl GREY moved the third reading of the convicts' discipline bill. The whole question of transportation was discussed in the debate that ensued, in which the speakers were Lords Lyttelton and Wodehouse, the Earl of Uchester, Lord Stanley and Monteagle, and Earl Grey. The bill was read a third time and passed, and their lordships adjourned. HorsE OF COMMONS.—Salaries rf Public Officers. —Lord EBRINGTON (in answer to Sir Benjamin Hall) said that the metropolitan commissioners of sewers had Dot yet come to a dicision upon the principle of drain- i age for that part of the metropolis north of the Thames. Lord J. RUSSELL moved for a select committee to inquire into the salaries and emoluments of offices laId: during the pleasure of the crown by members of either house of Parliament, voted in the annual estimates and also into the salaries and emoluments of judicial offices in the superior courts of law UTI(I equity in the Vn:ted Kinpdtm and into the retiring pensions allot- ted to the judg-es; and also into the expense of diplo- matic establishments charged on the consolidated fund. His lordship recited the various precedents' which he found for the appointment of such a com- mittee, beginning with 1798, when judicial salaries were inquired into, and extending through 1818 and 1828, when military emoluments were examined, down to Lord Althorp's committee of 1830, and the renewed military itiquii-yoof 1848. lie said that a committee upon civil salaries was now nearly concluding its la- j bours, and he had delayed.-aeking for yds committee until it should be able to sfvail itself of-the valuable services of certain niembers,,of the former. Referring to the three divisions of his motion, he said that in re- gard to the first, it was for the independent members of the house to consider the line which should be drawn in remunerating the officers of state. He thought that the high offices slieuld not be limited to individuals of large privute fortune. In regard to the second division, it had been a Ion., tinie fitice tliero had bees any inquiry, and the only step taken since 1798 had been in 1831, when Lord Denrnan accepted the office of Chief Justice, itt a siilarv of 8,0001, He would only tny thfit if th* higker iegsl ^ahiries were reduced, it would be nsressary to extend the medifi- cation throughout the whole system. I* regard to the third division, it included salaries wWieh farmerly were paid from the civil list, but sinee 1830, had been paid, out of the oonsmdated funJ; b.t ns nineteen years had passed since the cliriige, "n extensive revision was necessary. I he committee he asked for should take all possible evidence, nnu the result would be that estnb- ligaments, the necessity for which could be proved,would be kept up, and those in whose ease such proof failed would be nUolished or redueed. He thought that one member of the governHieet should be a member of the committee. Here he should have stopped, but for Mr. Disraeli's and Mr. Henley's amendments, wilich made it accessary te show, ill contradiction to wh&t was implied by them, the government bad neither shrunk from responsibility nor avoided duty. He went into details to prove tkat for geveral years government laad been making important reductions. During the last three years the IIrlUY expenditure had been re- duced by 501,438/ the navy by 2,102,41[1[" and the ordnance by making a total of 3,284,658,1. In civil departments a similar spirit had been mani- fested. In the Treasury and the Home-office, although they contained few officers at a very high salary, a Marching inquiry had been eet on foot, and the result had been that in the former, 5,300/. and in the latter 23,0001. had been saved, while increased eflicienoy had been produeod. Me would also add that things had materially changed in these departments during the last thirty years: for while in 1821 thebu&i&ess of the Treasury was done by thirty-eight persons at salaries amounting to 42,9601., in 1830 it was done by twenty-nine persons at salaries amouuting te 24,G80/M thereby getting rid of nine persons, and saving forty- j two per cent. And in spite of what a elever but whim- j sical writer had said (Mr. Cai-lyle) I the Treasury was < not an Augeon stable, but a place wliexe vorJc wAs i, -,< admirably done, and done somewhat cheaper than in the Bank, East India House, or private establishments. But the government was resolved that its reductions should be all gradual, and should effect the least pos- sible hardship. In the Customs department reductions had been Illude to the amount of 64,79 11. and in what used to be called the Excise and Stamps, there had been a reduction, since 1833, of 247,0001. He added, that he thought the inquiry should be conducted, not as had been somewhere suggested, in reference to any reduction in the prices of food, or other fluctuating scale, but in reference to the duties which had to be discharged. He adverted to propositions which had been hazarded, that the officers of the government should not have seats in Parliament, but should do their executive work distinctly from their legislatorial but this plan was utterly inconsistent wi:h the ma- ) chinery of our government, and he instanced the case of the poor-law board in proof of the impossibility cf so carrying oil business. lie left the question in the hands of the house, reminding the opposition that though the ministry were hut tenants at will, it was for those who were ready to succeed them to consider how any hasty or ill-judged act might affect the permanent interests of the country. His lordship's speech occupied exactly three quarters of an hour. Mr. DISRAELI wished to know why Lord John Russell had not seen fit, to go on in the successful and economical course he had described instead of coining and asking the house to do his work for him. lie thought the selection of precedents most infelicitous, but what he thought was worse, was, that there had been no assertion whatever of principle in all the speech he had just heard. What did government mean ? He gave it full credit for the reluctance with which it had approached the subject, but, having ap- proached it, what next ? They had recently brought forward certain estimates. Now an estimate was the embodied opinion of government, and the ministers were asking the house to sit in judgment upon their own opinion. If that opinion were that no new re- duction ought to take place, ministers were playing with the house. If the reverse, it was the duty of go- vernment to make the proper reductions, as it boasted had been done before. And as regarded precedent, Lord John Russell was not even following Lord Al- thorp, for whereas that nobleman's committee related only to salaries included in the estimates, Lord John was asking the house to go to an effective vote upon salaries secured by act of parliament, an upon which the house could only express an opinion, requiring another act of parliament to give it effect. If that act were wanted, why was it not introduced at once ? If we were to have a bill to deal witli the diplomatic hierarchy let us have it, and then we should get not only the opinion of the house, but of the minister and his cabinet, which had hitherto been sedulously con- cealed. Lord John had talked of the delicacy of men fixing their own salaries. This was mere senti- mentality and nothing was worse in transacting busi- ness than delicacy. (Mr. Disraeli then produced some ironical laughter by demanding how government meant to get at more inforniatiou as to judicial emo- laments and expenditure, and asking whether judges were to be asked for their tavern bills, and lawyers for their fee-books, and whether ambassadors were to be sent for from Constantinople, and from the heart of Germany, to be examined by the committee.) The appointment of this tribuna! seemed adapted to flutter the house, but they might be sure it would be a well arranged" tommittee, with a majority friendly to mi- nisterial usuages and doctrines. lie deplored that of late years, and even since reform, the powers of the house over the public purse had been diminishing, and it was becorning odious in the public eye, as the mere tool for taxation. lie said that a great constitutional principle was involved in this question, for the mi- nisters were most unconstitutionally trying to shift their responsibilities on the house. Lord J. Russell, who had been from thirty to forty years a member of parliament, and whose studies had led him to make himself master of every subject connected with it, could sit down and do, alone, in one morning, more than the committee could effect by labour which must commence de novo, must endure through the whole session, must be carried over into next year, and which would contribute to the Exposition of 1851 the most extraordinary thing which would be see there—a most wonderful Blue Book. He explained that his amend- ment not having been brought forward until Lord J. Russell's motion was proposed was a "casualty," arising from his own unavoidable absence, and he de- fended it as having warned the house to guard against the ministerial ruse by which it had been sought to defeat Mr. Ilenley's threatened motion. He then moved the following amendment:—"That this house is in possession of all the information requisite to re- vise and regulate public salaries that parliamentary committees of inquiry, under such circumstances, which only lead to delay and that it is the duty of the government, on their own responsibility, forthwith to introduce the measures that may be necessary for effecting every reduction in the national establish- ments consistent with the efficient discharge of the public service." Sir B. HALL complimented the opposition upon their new-born love of «cor¡otOv, but thought n. com* mittee ought to be appointed, but that it shuuld include not only the great salaries, but the whole syiitems to which its inquiries related. Mr. IIUME said that committees never did any g-ood, and he showed, from his experiences, that no reduc- tions worth speaking of had ever followed their re- commendations. He should support the amendment. He made a variety of suggestions for better effectuat- ing a saving in numerous salaries, and disclaimed any confidence in the intentions of ministers. Mr. HENLEY said that Lord John Russell had given no indication to the house that he meant to make tiny reductions at all and he thought that the best course was to throw the responsibility of measures of ero- nomy on the government. And lie believed that, with the additions which had been suggested by Sir 1). Hall, the proposed inquiry would occupy such nn im- mense time, that long before the "army of martyrs" were disposed of, the reductions would be a question for posterity. He should support the amendment. Lord IhmtY VANE should oppose it, thinking that the investigation of the subjects in question by tile independent and intelligent committee would greatly tend to promote the desired reforms. Mr. G. BERKELEY supported the amendment, and instanced the utter contempt and defiance which go- vernment had manifested for the recommendation of the African committee as a proof oi the way the re- port of the proposed committee would be treated if i:i6agre«able. He believed that this was only a means of shelving the question for the sesion. Mr. CoCKHURN could not think that the house had sufficient information before it, for fliough it might know the mere receipts of officials, it ought, before coming to a settlement which should be a permanent one, to be provided with information as to the neces- sary expenditure ami other incidents of the position of these officials. He declined lending himself to a party object, or to aid Mr. Disraeli to "over-trump" government, and should oppose the amendment. Mr 13BIGHT thought that though some committees were shams," the amendment was nothing better. Hoping thnt the committee might be a pood one, in which neither officials that were nor officials that were to b#-should hare a majority, he would support the motion. Mr. DRUMMOND said that Lord John Russell asked the house to "inquire." Of whom! Why, tkey would only inquire him, who knew more on the subject fhan all of them put together. The house was ill- debted to tLe noble lord for trying to lighten the future labours of (he seseioii for, should this committee be appointed, it would be impossible to bring forward any ettter measure of finnncinl reform. lie compared the ultra-reformers to Jerome Faturot, who always veted for impossible measures, and on the sti-ell,t4i of doing so, called thenwlves the friends of the people. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied that there was any necessity for the committee sitting an unreasonable time, and said that Lord Althorp's com- mittee had in a eomparatively short time produced a greut mass of valuable information. He declared that fit: had never shrunk from the responsibility of dealing with greaf puBiic establishments, liut be thought thut a general reduction of salaries, such as Mr. Henley proposed, would be most unjust, if it were net preeeded Ity inquiries into the special circumstances of eaeh case to be dealt with. He saw no difficulty in pro- curing the proper witnesses, when the Lord Chancellor himself had not declined to appear before Lord Al- thorp's committee. Lord J. MANNERS said that one question remained Ve asked, nnd therefore to be answered, namely, If l*V8 *10tl0n) instead of being made after Mr. ey s had not (if government was eo impresoed with l s importance) been mad* early in the session ? i Lord J; RUSSELL (in wply) said that moot of the objection s to the motion had been disposed of by his oppoMnts thetnstlveg, who had, he remarked, an- swered one another. He expressed great surprise that Mr. Hume had opposed hitn- but he attributed it to an interview that member had had with Mr Disraeli, as the house knew that eril eoteniunieations corrupted good manners. He defended tbe appointment of the committee, on the ground tlutt information as to the circumstances of those whose aalariM were to be con- sidered was needed, and tlmt it WtUI a practical and constitutional course, good in it-If, and supported by precedent. The house then divided, when the otunberg were- For the amendment. 159 I Against it 250 Majority against Mr. Disraeli 1 Mr. HOUSMAN then moved, as an addition to Lord John Ii/ussell's motion, that the inquiry be extended to the incomes of ecclesiastical dignitaries. He compared the duties and the incomes of judges and prelates, arguing that the latter were enormously paid in pro- portion to the former. He then contrasted the toil and responsibility of Lord John Russell with that of the Archbishop of Canterbury, who had three times his salary. He showed that the whole official salary of the Board of Admiralty did not equal that of a single bishop. Proceeding with his comparisons, he took the case of various public boards, of ambassadors, and all our ministers, and said their united incomes did not come within filty per cent, of the incomes of the bench of bishops. He continued this kind ot parallel finishing with a statement that whereas few of our public men made fortunes, or died rich, the twenty- nine prelates who have died since 1828 have left a million and a half of personal property. He then described deans and canons as holders of injurious sinecures. He anticipated the objection that the cle- rical and secular incomes were differently derived, bv reminding the house that both were regulated by net of parliament, and therefore fit subjects for parlia- mentary treatment. He made this motion, not be- cause the people of England were overtaxed, but be- cause they were under-taught. Sir G. GREY thought that Mr. Horsman was not doing justice to his object. Without denying the right of inquiry into ecclesiastieal incomes, or that those incomes might be hereafter again regulated, when cause should be shown for such re-considera- tion, he said that the lay and the religious questions were totally distinct, and ought not to be confounded in the same inquiry, which would hereby be rendered unpractical and useless. He would not go into the subject, though he thought the comparisons of Mr. Horsman by no means just; but he would merely ask the house not to agree to an amendment which would encumber and damage a valuable inquiry. Mr. I\Th\VDEGATii decribed Mr. Horsman's speech 118 a most unfair attack upon the Church of England, which he lost no opportunity of vilifying. After a few words from Mr. Horsman, Mr. GOULRURN reiterated the charge against Mr. Ilorsman of hostility to the church. Colonel Sll:n)f))ip said that some people's censure was praise, a remark which he applied to Mr. Ilors- man's criticism on t! e bishops. The house then divided, when the numùers were- For the amendment 75 Against it 208 Majority against Mr. Horsman 133 The original motion was then agreed to, and the house, after disposing of the orders of the day, ad- journed. MONDAY. HOUSE OF LORDS.—The Exchequer Bills Bill and the IJrick Duties Bill went through committee. Court of Appeal. — In answer to Lord REDESDALE, The Bishop of LONDON declared his intention to bring forward a bill to establish a court of appeal in eases of charges of heresy laid against ministers of the established church, in superce-sion of the Judicial Com- mittee of tile Privy Coullcil. The bill would be intro- duced as soon as its clauses had undergone a proper ex- amination by his right reverend brethren) n the epis- copal bench. Ilis lordship added, that his uronosed court would be strictly a clerical tribunal. ri he house then adjourned. HuusE OF COMMONS.—Quarantine.—Mr. IIUME in- quired whether any steps had recently been taken by the government to reduce the quarantine establishment of the country. Mr. LABOUCHERE said that only three establish- ments for the purpose of quarantine were now re- tained and that their annual cost did iiot exceed ],)001. It was impossible further to reduce the expence or num- ber, unless it was determined to abandon the quarantine system altogether. Lord Lieutenancy ofli-elaiid.-I,ord J. RUSSELL gave notice for the Gill of May of a bill to abolish the office of Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. Stamp I)tities.-On the motion for the house going- into committee on the Stamp Dutil's Bill, The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER entered into a preliminary explanation touching the intention and scope of tlte measure. The altemtiolls now effected in the clauses had, he submitted, obviated ninety-nine out of a hundred of the objections that had been urged "gainst it. As it now stood, no increase of taxation would result from the change in the tax, although it involved some enhancement of the stamps upon high values by the introduction of the exci valot-tpit principle. Mr. GOULBURN strongly objected to the graduated scale as proving exorbitantly oppressive upon the larger class of transactions. Its operation, he con- tended, would be especially injurious to the landed in- terest, where mortgag-es of large amount were matters of every day occurrence. On certain values he showed that the stamp duty would be increased from 25l. to 7001. The consequence might be expected to follow that either a mortgagor would suffer great embarrass- ment or ingenuity be called into exercise to invade the law. All borrowers of money upon security of rea:l pro- perty, wlwther laiids, oi*t ,actoi-ies, i%,ould t,, iis b(- placed in great measure at the mercy of the lenders. with regard to marriatre settlements, allowances to younger children, &c., objections of an analogous cha- racter might also be urged and altogether he consid- ered the adoption of the ad valorem rate of duty an "error of judgment." Mr. MULLINGS, after passing in review the rat., of charge sanctioned by the bill, and showing he.v largely it presented an increase beyond the pres -r tariff, argued that the system of raising a revenue a tax 011 löans WitS vicious in principle. Tha tax lt d, necessarily, upon persons in needy circumstances, and at moments when they were least able to bear it. He calculated that instead of a remission of 300,0001., the alteration would effect an increase in the taxation of even more th -n that amount. Mr. H. PALMER made an inquiry regarding the stamp duties to be paid by benefit societies. Mr. HUME reminded the house of the great injus- tice that had long been inflicted upon small dealers and borrowers, by the higher ratio of the stamps they were called ou to pay upon their transactions. If the government fairly intended, as they professed, to equalise the rate in exact proportion to the value in- volved, it was but a measure of fairness to which he thought that the rich proprietors and capitalists ought not to object. Mr. HENLEY wished for futher information before proceeding to legislate. Tiiey had no means of esti- mating whether the bill would serve to enhance or to reduee the amount of taxation. Mr. SADLEIR narrated the discomfiture which in lR36 had attended the introduction ot a stamp duties kill very similar in its enactments to those of the pre- serit measure as erigiimlly laid before the house. lIe pomplnined of the conduct- of the government in drnw- Up under an insidious title an act which included pi'oviwioiis that had already been condemned by parlia- rent. Stamp duties were in their nature most inju- rious, and led to perpetual fraud and tvasion. The h, 't-Ilor d the Exchequer, after proffering a dimi- "UtioNk of the tax upon "small" transactions, assigned his Own to that epithet, and placed all bor- lowings and leadings exceeding 10001.4in amount in the category of "large" transactions, and mulcted them accordingly. Detailing many practical inconve- nience* and anomalies that would attend the working of the measure, the hon. member called for some ge- neial and just systemisation of the stamp duties, in- stead ot of the present tinkering to which "they were II being subjected. The house then went into committee on the bill. 1 he CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, postponing his reply to various objections until the special clauses < they involved came under discussion, recapitulated the principle of h:s bill, which he explained to have been aimed rather to secure equality than remission in the weight of ti-e stamp duties. He promised, in favour of the landed interest, to reduee the l per cent, duty on mortgages and conveyances, as originally proposed, to or os. for every 100/. As to the question, whether the result would show an increase or a diminution of revenue, he had no conclusive evidence to show but calculating IlPproximati vely, upon the principle that the returns flowed chiefly from the mass of small, ra- ther than the magnitude of large transactions, and including the further remission he had just announced, the estimated loss to the exchequer was from 320,11001. to 350,()001. per annum. It would certainly be over OO,OOOl. Mr. DISRAELI accused the Chancellor of the Ex- chequer of having broken fairti with the small proprie- tors of land. In the budget address a bonus of 350,0001. was promised them by a remission of the stamp duty, out of the treasury surplus in hand but it now turned out that all the gain to one class of proprietors was te be paid in increased taxation by another class. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained that his meaning had been misinterpreted, and his calculations perverted. He no doubt, increased taxes on one side while he diminished them on another, but the result left a balanee in favour of the tax-payers amounting to a third ofa million per annum. Mr. DISRAEM retorted that the phrase of a "ba- lance" was convenient and quite new. Nothing was heard of it when the idea of the bill was first pro- pounded. A prolonged conTersation, cliitfly turning upon the financial results of the change in the stamps upon mortgages and conveyances, was kept up between the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Goulburn, Mr. Hen- ley, the Attorney General. Mr. Mullingo. and Sir H. Willoughby. Mr. BRIGHT, approving theoretically of the ad valorem principle, wished that the whole subject could be referred to a select committee, in order to determine the practical tariff under which it ought to be imposed. At present there were very few rilenitiers who fairly understood the question. No satisfaction could be felt by the public from such hasty legislation. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL did not believe that the bill was so enigmatical as Mr. Bright assumed. While the clauses were going though committee, hon. members might manage to understand it; or if they still failed in comprehension, might with better grace demand its postponement. Mr. MITCHELL censured the principle of taxing mortgages, which was in reality taxing debt instead of property. Mr. SADLEIR detailed the embarassrnents which rendered the introduction of the bill very ill timed for Irish proprietors. Mr. HUME adopted the government estimate, that a balance of 300,0001. would be remitted, and the whole benefit of which would accrue to the poorer tax- payers, and repeated his wish to see the measure car- ried. Mr. CONOLLY thought that more time should be al- lowed for members to study the subject. Lord J. RUSSELL remembered that the stamp-duty question was many years old and that the substantive measure now before them had been for a whole month subjected to their consideration. Mr. MOWATT and Mr. ELLIS wished the measure to be proceeded with. Mr. HEALD repeated the inquiry, and the Chan- cellor of the Exchequer the reply that had already been more than on given, touching the loss of revenue by the proposed changes. Mr. LAW disliked the tax upon mortgages. Lord D. STVAHT approved of the ad vedorem system of duty as eminently just towards the poor mun. As the law stood, he paid forty times as much mortgage duty as his richer neighbours. The present measure did not go far enough, but was a vast improvement oil the ancient practice. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON and Mr. SPOOXER spoke in favour of a postponement, to which THE CHANCELLC.II of the EXCHEQUER responded by an appeal to the committee not to waste more time with objections which were principally upon matters of detail, and might be considered as the bill pro- ceeded. Mr. Mullings, Mr. Sanders, and Mr. Hudson, hav- ing briefly spoken, the committee began the considera- tion of the clauses, which were agreed to, after much discussio.i, with some unimportant amendments. Upon schedule B, which involved the question of the ad valorem duty, a long conversation ensued upon an amendment proposed by Sir II. Willou;;h')y that the sliding scale of duties should commence at Is. iu- stead of 2s. Gd., its proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Mullins, Mr. Disraeli, Mr. Roebuck, Mr. Bankes, Mr. Henley, and Mr. Goulburn having joined in the discussion, The committee divided on the original motion — Ayes I3o Noes 1G4 Majority 29 Enthusiastic cheers hailed this defeat of the admi- nistration. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the Ex- CHEQUSK'. lie C'hairiran i en reported with- out asking eave to sit again, the right lion, baronet stating that the government must take to consider their course of proceeding under the circumstances arising out of an adverse vote which involved so large a sacrifice of revenue. Irish Bills.—The house then resumed. On the se- cond read ing of the security for advances (Ireland) bill, Mr. STUART informed the house, that they were legislating upon insufficient information. Thev knew not how many estates had been sold under the encum- bered estates act; how many had been ordered for sale and how many had been bid for on the terms that one half the purchase-money should remain upon the security provided by the bill under discussion. He paused for a rep'y to those questions, and in the meantime moved the adjournment of the discussion. This motion being put from the chair, Mr. HATCIIRLL vindicated the measure as bein a graft upon the encumbered estates bill sanctioned by parliament in the last session. He drew the distinc- tion between a purchaser who should pay only half the purchusi-money upon an estate, and hilll who should pay the whole price, but borrow half of it under the provisions of this act. If further information was required, he hoped that due notice would he given; which in the present case hutl not been conceded. IMr. STUART explained, and after some remarks by Mr. Hume and Mr. Maurice O'Connell, Sir J. WALSH moved the adjournment of the de- bate, solely upon account of the lateness of the hour (quarter to 12), and objected to the bringing forward of so important a measure in an exhausted house as being an exarnj le of the usual injustice to Ireland." Mr. C. ANSTEY argued that the bill was unani- niously igi-eecl to as to its principle, and Wa3 opposed solely upon matters of detail, which ought to bit re- served for the committee. Lord J. RUSSELL observed upon the time wasted in mere conversation by members who afterwards ob- jected to proceed with measures on account of the waste of time. Mr. Disraeli and Mr. Henley supported the adjourn- ment, to which Sir G. GfiEY demurred, observing upon the benefit it would confer upon the creditors for loans upon landed securities in Ireland. Mr. M. J. O'Connell, Lord Naas, and Col. Dunne having made some reiiiii-ks, The SOLICITOR-GENERAL consented to postpone the seconding reading of the bill. The second reading of the medical eharities (Ire- land) bill was then discussed at some length, consider- able opposition being offered on the part of the Irish members. After an explanation from Lord J. RUSSELL the opposition was withdrawn and the bill read a second time. Burial Grounds.—Sir G. GREY gave notice of a bill for making better provision for interment of the dead in and near the metropolis. The measure was founded upon a recent report of the board of health, and was intended to avoid injury to the health of the living, and secure decency in the burial of the dead in the vicinity of the metropolis. The board has consequently recommended measures for prohibit- ing interment within certain distances of London, which recommendation had so far been followed in the bill he intended to draw up, as to propose the constitution of a suburban cemetery, to which certain metropolitan parishes wwre to be limited, with power to buy up and extinguish the rights of certain ceme- tery companies, and empowering the Privy Council to prohibit burial in churchyards or burying ground. within the boundaries of certain London districts. Proper compensation was also to be afforded to the clergy tind other parties whom the provisions of the bill Ulight be calculated to injure. After some conversation, Leave wali given to bring in the bill, and the house adjourned. TUESDAY. HOUSE OF LORDS.—Several petitions were pre- sented. The Brick Duties Bill and the Exchequer Bills Bill were severally read a third time and passed, and their lordships adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. — Taxes on Knowledge.—Mr. M ILNJ5R GIBSON rose to move the following resolu- all taxes which directly impede the diffusion of knowledge are highly injurious to the pub- lic interests, and are most impolitic sourees of revenue, this House is of opinion, That such financial arrange- ments ought to be made us will enable Parliament to repeal the excise duty on paper; to abolish the Stamp duties, and the duties now payable on advertisements, and that the customs duty on foreign books olJght to be repealed." The hon. member in a long and eloquent address entered upon the merits of tke resolutions, and concluded by moving the first namely, the repeal of the duty on paper. Mr. Cowan seconded the motion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER objected principally to the proposition with respect to its bearing upo» the revenue. He could not express him- self sufficiently against a course which would be a political suicide. The question was not it iiiei-e matter of 10,000/. here and 20,000/. there, but it was essen- tially a question touching the public credit and he trusted, therefore, the house would neither deal with these taxes now, nor pledge itself to do so next ses- sion, but negative the proposition of tke hon. member. Mr. HUME regarding the motion as one which was intimately connected with the best interests of the country, and eminently congenial to the character of its people, would not hesitate to give it his cordial support. Mr. Aglionby voted against the measure. Mr. ROEBUCK in a brilliant oration supported the resolution. He entreated the government, to diffuse freely and without fiscal restraiut the benefit of edu- cation to those vast multitudes who were entitled to possess, and who inevitably would sooner or later pos- sess, those powers which they had not previously en- joyed. He ciiarged them to give instruction to the vast multitudes of the people who had not hitherto had power, but who were now destined to enjoy it, and besought them not to let the narrow view of the Chancellor of the Exchequer interfere in a matter of so great moment. Lord J. RUSSELL, with all respect to the hon. mem- ber who had proposed the resolution, and agreeing as he did iu maay «f hla jobjections against the taxea ia question, called upon the house to reject the motion on the grouud that this was not the occasion, nor the time, when it could lightly condemn taxes necessary for the support of the public obligations of the country, and for the support of those establishments deemed I essential for the national defence. Mr. DISRAELI, in a lengthened and able speech, supported the measure. The house then divided, when there appeared For the first resolution 89 Against it 190 .Majority against 101 The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th resolutions were then nega- tived, and the house adjourned. WEDNESDAY. The House of Lords did not sit. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Education Bill.-On the motion that the Education Bill be read a second time, Mr. STAFFORD moved that the second reading be taken on that day six months. Lord ARUNDEL AND SURREY seconded the amend- ment. Mr. ROEBUCK suspected that the opposition offered to the measure by the noble lord was prompted by a. "meddling priesthood." Among the infinite diversi- ties of opinion regarding all points of biblical interpre- tation, unconquerable difficulties were thrown in the way of every system which involved theology in its scheme of instruction. Lord ASHLEY, impressed with the paramount im- portance of uniting moral instruction with those religious doctrines which were the foundation and support of all morality, intended to vote for the amend- ment. Mr. M. MILNES considered that in fairness the party who opposed the bill before the house ought to have suggested some plan of their own to carry out the system which they advocated, viz., the union of general secular instruction with religious education. Lord J. RUSSELL confessed the deplorable ignorance that too widely prevailed among the lower classes, and which he thought that Parliament III gIlt properly endeavour to remedy. lie should, however, support the amendment, but looked forward to a time when the legislature, possessing fuller information, might devise a less objectionable measure, and IIITane a system which should more amply fulfil the important requisites for national education. Mr. HUME regretted the determination pronounced by Lord J. Russell, which he feared would seal the fate of the measure. The Marquis of BLANPFORD opposed the bill; the discussion of which, on the motion of Mr. C. ANSTEY, was adjourned to that day fortnight. The Highways (South Wales) Bill was read a second time after which the house adjourned.