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CARNARVON TOWN COUNCIL. < The ordinary monthly meeting of the Council was held on Tuesday, under the presidency of the Mayor (Mr Richard Thomas), the other I members present being Aldermen W. P. Wil- liams, J. Williams, M. T. Morris, R. Norman Davies, and D. T. Lake; Councillors Edward Hughes, J. Is <ard Davies, J. P. Gregory, Owen Jones, R. S. Parry Jones. D. Pierce, J. Rees, J. Fletcher, R. Parry, J. T. Roberts, R. E. Owen, R. O. Roberts, W. H-imer, G. R. Griffith, T. M. Lloyd, and H. Lloyd Carter; Messrs J. H. Bodvel Roberts (town e'erk), D. H. Jones (borough ac- countant), R. Ll. Jones (borough surveyor), E. Roberts (inspector of nuisances), T. Wilkinson (gas manager), J. Williams (collector), &c. CHAIRMEN OF COMMITTEES. It was reported that the following gentlemen were elected chairmen of the respective com- mittees:—Finance, Mr W. J. Williams; Gas, Dr R. Parry Sanitary, Mr M. T. Morris; Highway, Dr John Williams Ferry, Mr E. Hughes. el FINANCE. The collector reported that the following were received during the month ending the 23rd Nov- ember District fund account, £ 338 7s 4d water, X86 8s 4d; gas, JE528 Is lid; County Coun- cil, main road account, and health officers' salaries, -0113 los lOd; other rents, tolls, &c., £48 Is 9d. LEAD SERVICE PIPES. The Finance Committee recommended that the surveyor be instructed to obtain prices of lead piping from different firms, and to enter into a contract for 12 months' supply if any benefit can be secured by doing so. Dr J. Williams: I want to know why these pipes are to be used to carry water into houses. We have rules that they are not to be used. Mr W. P. Williams: There was a resolution passed not long ago correcting that, and giving householders the option of adopting lead or iron pipes. It would be very foolish to object to lead pipes. Mr O. Jones: These pipes are used in Liverpool, and I don't think the Carnarvon people are more delicate than the Liverpool people. The Mayor: I understood that the pipes were to be tin-lined. Mr E. Hughes It is necessary that we should have pipes which are the best for the purpose. If we allow our men to use inferior pipes, others would do likewise. If the Corporation are going to order these pipes ill quantities, it would oe an easy m&tter to specify a certain make of tin- lined pipes. On the proposition of Dr G. R. Griffith, seconded by Mr J. Issard Davies, the matter was referred to the Sanitary Committee. THE PROPOSED MUSEUM. At a meeting of the Finance Committee a letter was read from the Library and Museum Com- I mittee stating that it was intended to fit up the Institute lecture room as a museum, at an esti- mated cost of £ 300, and asking the Council to borrow JE250 to be applied towards this object, and to allow an extra 115 annually from the shop rents towards paying off the amount borrowed. It was recommended that the sanction of the Council be given to the proposed expenditure of £ 300 upon the establishment of a free public museum, and that the Council borrow the sum of £ 250 on the security of the borough rate, and undertake themselves to make the necessary annual repayment in respect of same out of the Institute shop rents, the whole subject to the sanction of the Local Government Board. Mr M. T. Morris: This recommendation takes me by surprise. A few months ago this committee only asked for £ 40 to meet requiiements and make necessary improvements. I am not against the establishing of a musoum in the town, but at pre- sent I am not in favour of spending £ 300 upon materials. I do not think that the room in the Institute is suitable, and before spending the proposed sum on cases and furniture I should like to know what amount the committee intend spending upon the exhibits ? It would be far better to have the museum in the Castle, as the room above the library is not suitable. We want money to carry on certain improvements which will benefit the trade of the town. The expenditure connected with the Anglesey ferry will, amount to between £ 500 and £600. When these things are taken into consideration I am; of opinion that it is not advisable to spend JE300 on luxuries, and I would suggest that the committee should leave the matter for the present. Mr Carter said he agreed with Mr Morris, though he was one of the supporter^ of the pro- posal for the formation of a museum in the town. When it was proposed to spead a large sum like J6300 they ought to do something worthy of the occasion. He should like the matter to be de- ferred, and in the meantime the Council might meet the Constable of the Castle and ascertain whether a museum could not be established in the Castle, which was the chief attraction of the town. If they were to open the museum in the room above the Library they would be on a par with small towns like Bangor (laughter). A telegram was some time ago received from Sir John Puleston stating that he was glad a museum committee had been appointed, and that he would gladly co- operate. He (Mr Carter) did not know whether any steps had been taken to secure his co-operation. They ought to appeal for contributions and assist- ance from persons outside the town towards the formation of a museum in the Castle, and if the Government should at any time decide to make a grant towards a national museum, Carnarvon would undoubtedly have the first claim. Mr Morris I move that the matter be deferred for three months. I think it would be well for us to have our hands clear at the present time. Mr Carter seconded, observing that some steps could be taken in the meantime. Dr Parry said it was rather unfortunate that the amendment should have been moved at present. It was known that they could not raise any money on the security of the rates for the purposes of the Anglesey ferry, but with regard to the proposed museum they had the security of the borough rate. He agreed with Mr Carter that the room above the Library was not suitable, but he maintained that they should make a start and form the nucleus of a museum, and having done this they would be in a position to appeal to the Government for a grant. Ie the past Carnarvon had been lack ng in public enterprise, as the result of which they lost the Wil- liams' School, Dolgelley, and the University Col- lege they also failed to secure becaus3 they did not show any sympathy with this object." The Insti- tute had been erected by public subscription for the purposes of a free library and museum, and the rents fro mthe shops would be sufficient to pay back the loan without burdening the rates. Mr Morris, in making the present objection resembled a Rip Van Winkle for Mr Morris to make the objection now. This should have been done at first. The committee had gone to a great deal of trouble to carry the objects from the Castle to the Institute, and to engage an expert to report upon them. Mr R. Norman Davies felt rather sorry that the amendment had been proposed, because he thonght they were all united on the question of having a museum at Carnarvon. If the proposal of the committee had been to erect a building in the town he could understand the objection. The £ 300 was for the purpose of purchasing cases and furniture therefore, the money would not be thrown away. In view of the probability-that a National Museum will be established iu Wales the expenditure of the sum mentioned would prove thatthey in Carnarvon had provided the means to keep the exhibits in safe custody. Mr E. Hughes was glad to understand that the committee had moved in the direction it had The cases and furniture it was proposed to purchase could be removed auywhere if needed. Sir Llew- elyn Turner was prepared to hand over the exhibits to the Corporation on the undei standing that they would be taken care of. It was necessary, of eourse, to keep the exhibits in cases, and having i secured these it would be shown that a start had been made. Mr J. Issard Davies asked that the matter might be de terred in order that they might know how the money was to be spent. He understood thas only jEt had been spent of the JE40 previously granced the committee. Undoubtedly they were all anxious to have a museum in the town, but he thought it would be advisable that they should feel their way before they incurred any expenditure j they would be sorry for. I Mr J. T. Roberts observed that both the pro- posal and the amendment agreed that this ex- penditure should be incurred. The only difference was whether the museum should be located in the Castle or in the Library. If the expenditure was to be incurred what objection was there to have it incurred now ? Mr Issard Davies: What is the proportion of representatives of the Council on the Library Com- mittee ? The Mayor Eight members of the Council to nine outsiders. Mr Issard Davies: I do not think that the out- siders should have the predominant voice, and that they should vote to spend the money of the rate- payers. Mr W. J. Williams: That is not correct. I voted for it, and I am a member of the Council. Dr Griffith was of opinion that a start ought now to be made with the museum which had been talked about for some years,; and now they had arrived at a crisis. If they were to reject the recom- mendation of the committee the matter might be shelved for some years. Mr M. T. Morris observed that the Library Committee had shown some inconsistency by ask- ing now for £ 300,whilst that in May they asked onlyfor £40 to remove the collection from the Castle and repair the cases and get new ones. It seemed to him quite clear that the committee did not know what they were asking for..E300 seemed a large sum of money to be spent in a small room in the Institute, and it was possible that the cases proposed to be purchased would not suit a room in the Castle. He did not see that any harm would be done by deferring the matter. They were incurring unnecessary debt at present. Mr W. J. Williams explained that the Cor- poration oould not interfere witha«yJmoney except that belonging to the Library for the purpose of forming a museum. Upon a division the Finance Committee's recommendation was adopted, tha voting being as follows:—For Messrs W. J. Williams, D. T. Lake, R. N. Davies, E Hughes, J. P. Gregory, R. S. Parry Jones, O. Jones, D. Pierce, J. Rees, J. Fletcher, J. T. Roberts, R. O. Roberts, R.E. Owen, and Dr Parry. Against: Messrs W. P. Williams, H. Lloyd Carter, J. Issard Davies, M. T. Morris, W. Hamer, T. M. Lloyd, and Dr J. Williams. GAS UNACCOUNTED FOR. At a meeting of the Gas Committee the Gas Manager reported what steps he had taken with the view of discovering the cause of the large per- centage of leakage which the gasworks have always shown on the auaual make of gas. From tests made by him, it appeared that the condition of the harbour service pipes was responsible for some portion, and it further appeared that there was no satisfactory means of checking the quantity of gas consumed by the harbour lamps, as both the number of lamps lighted, and the number of hours during which they were lighted, varied according to the discretion of the lamplighters. It was re- solved that the Harbour Trustees be respectfully asked to consider whether it would net be more fair and satisfactory to both parties to have meters fixed so as to get the exact measurement of gas used, &c., on the harbour property, as suggested to them by the Gas Committee in December, 1892 also, that the Harbour Surveyor be asked, in the meantime, to furnish a time table at the com- mencement of each month showing how it is in- tended to light the lamps. Dr Griffith observed that the resolution of the committtee might be drawn out in a more business- like manner, and he suggested that the resolution should read, That the Harbour Trustees be asked to have meters fixed," &c. Some yqars ago the quantity of gas prepared, the percentage of leak- age, and the illuminative power were, recorded in the minutes of the committee, and there was no advantage gained by reading long-worded resolu- tions without these fcts being placed before them. Mr J. Issard Davies said that the feeling at the Harbour Trust was that the matter had been settled three years ago, and it was suggested at the meeting of that body that oil should be used. It would be a great loss if they were to lose the custom of the Harbour Trust, and he could not see why the Corporation should not abide by the agreement come to three years ago. Dr 8R. Parry said that Dr Griffith had only to consult the published accounts in order to ascer- tain the percentage of leakage, the consumption, and the quantity of gas paid for annually. These matters had not been placed on the agenda because they had been charged with putting too much already on the agenda. He believed the Trustees as business men would agree that the present method was not businesslike. It was not method was not businesslike. It was not I the intention of the Gas Committee to harass the Trust in any way. Under the old method the Corporation lamplighter lighted the harbour lamps, and they charged the Trust accordingly, that body also paying 10 per eent. for leakage. Some time ago the Trustees appointed their own lamplighter and kept their own account very much the same as if a man allowed a stranger to go into his shop, take any- thing he liked, and put down anything that he might think correct. The committee only asked the Trustees to pay for the gas they actually used. After further discussion the recommendation was adopted. TOWN LAMPS. The Gas Manager reported on the gas used on public lamps, but as certain new arrangements were required in order to arrive at an approximate calculation of gas consumed, it was resolved that this matter be brought up again, the manager meanwhile to direct his attention to the whole question of leakage. Taking as a basis the number of burners of different sizes now used on public lamps, the consumption of gas last year would show an increase on the published estimate equal to 1 09 per cent. on the gas unaccounted for. INCOME TAX. At a meeting of the Gas Committee the account- ant reported having arrived at an agreement with the Surveyor of Taxes to fix the assessment for in- come tax at £843 15s Od; tax at 8d, JE28 2s 6d; average yearly payment, 1886 to 1892, £38 7s 9d. SANITARY. The Sanitary Committee submitted the following report Water supply at Cae Cristo and Rhos- dican The Surveyor was of opinion that the scarcity of supply to Cae Cristo w«s due to corro- sion of the service pipe in Priestley road, and that the weak supply to Rhosdican is probably due to an obstruction in the service pipe near the house, because there is a better supply at Peoybryn and Cocksidia chouses on a higher level), and the pres- sure is sufficient to drive the water over the hill naar Tyddyn Du (16ft. above, where the supply to Rhosdican is) on to Glanbeuno. It was ordered that the Surveyor write to Messrs Bugbird and Morris Roberts, explaining the above.—Mr David Jonas, 24, Pool street, applied for permission to build a small shed by the side of the shop. The Surveyor having explained that it was intended as an addition of 3 square yards to the shop, it was recommended for approval.—The Inspector's report was read. It was recommended that 24 hours' notice be given to the owner of 49, South Penrallt, to rectify the drains, failing compliaace legal proceedings be taken.—Pott Sanitary Authority Recommended that the proposed regu- lations of the Local Government lioard for the removal to hospital of persons brought within the Port Sanitary District by any ship or boat, who < arc affected with a dangerous infectious disorder, ke adopted and printed. The recommendation of the committee was una- nimously adopted. HIGHWAY AND TOWN IMPROVEMENTS. The following report of the Highway and Town Improvement committee was adopted:—Read memorial from Messrs W. G. Thomas, William Uoberts, and R. R. Stythe, representing the in- habitants of St. David's Road, asking the Council to repair the surface of the road, to do the neces- sary channelling, and to asphalt the paths on both sides. It was ordered that the Surveyor report thereon, and submit an estimate of the cost of the improvements asked for, the matter to be further considered at the next meeting.—A memorial was read from the inhabitants of Greengate street asking that the channels be put in order, and the path asphalted. It was ordered that this suggested improvement be also reported upon and considered at the next meeting. — Mr R. T. Hughes, 16, Bangor street, wrote asking that the footpath in front of 8, 9, and 10, Mount Pleaaant Square be put in order as promised some time ago The t Surveyor was ordered to have it done as. soon as he srsKxr Owen, and W report upon the lighting of the various parts of the town, and that the Surveyor apply to Mr Chas 1 So"th road opposite Henwalia, as the lamp-post on the parapet is an obstruction. ANGLESEY PEER v. JP6 AnTf68ey FeT7 Con^ittee reported as J Jrt°7 7~ h Wa!/Tlved that ^e committee un- dert^ke to have the houses and piers belonging to n hT An £ lesey «de put in repair, fnd that Capt Owen Lewis, the new lessee, be not held responsible until this is done.—With a view of complying with the request of the Trustees that corresponding improvements be made for landing at Talyfoel to those proposed by them on the Car- narvon side, the surveyor was instructed to pre- pare plans and estimates for the extension of the present pier oO yards and also construct a new high level pier on the site of the present low water landing stage at Talyfoel. Mr J. T. Roberts asked what was the use of pre- paring plans when they had no power to borrow money to carry out the scheme Mr O. Jones There has been so much said in this Council about this ferry question that we are I beginning to get tired of it, and outsiders as well are beginning to get tired of it. The Town Clerk had already stated tnat we cannot vote any of the ratepayers money towards this object. In the face of this what is to be doue ? It ls no use coming here to talk; there has been plenty of that already. It is time we ihould do something. I see only one way of gettingljut of the difficulty, namely, by opemng a subscription list; and I am sure, judging by the pleasant countenance of our worthy Mayor and his happy position as bachelor (laughter), that he will be one of the first to support it and head the list with a handsome amount. I would follow him and would be pleased to send my cheque for £50 (cheers) towards raising the necessary sum of £ 600. We should do something similar to what the Harbour Trustees intend doing on this Side. This matter has been before the eyes of the public for some time, and whenever they read of the Carnarvon Town Council this matter stared them in the face like Carter's Liver Pills or Col- man's Mustard (laughter). Mr E. Hughes explained that the estimated cost of extending the pier 50 yards further into the straits was £550, and the cost af other necessary improvements, £450. Mr Carter said it was very good of Mr Jones to promise a subscription in order to raise the necess- ary money, but he (Mr Carter) thought they would never succeed by opening a subscription bet. He could not see why private individuals should put their hands in their pockets to supply what was a convenience for the whole community. He believed that Mr M. T. Morris' suggestion would be the best solution of the difficulty,—that the Harbour Trustees should be asked to carry out the work, the Council, out of the rent received from the lessee, to pay the interest upon the expenditure. Dr Parry said it would be impolitic to solicit subscriptions from private individuals to carry out public improvements, and he believed that the suggestion thrown out by Mr Morris at a previous meeting was the first step they should take. If the improvements were worth doing they ought to e ra.tepayers and explain to them that if the Corporation were allowed- to go in for a special Act of Parliament they wsuld do what they could to improve the ferry. He thought that a deputation from the Council should meet the Harbour Trust to ascertain whether the latter body was wilting to carry out the suggestion made by Mr Morris. If not, a meeting of the ratepayers should be held in order to place the matter before them and explain that the Corporation could not make the necessary improvements. The Mayor said that at the meeting that morn- ing wf the Trust it was decided that nothing could be done on the Carnarvon side of the ferry unless the Council carried out the necessary improve- ments on the Anglesey side. It was necessary that the two bodies should work together. He believed that the only plan to improve thq ferry was to obtain an Act of Parliament, and why should they in Carnarvon not go in for an Act as Bangor had done. It was of the greatest importance to the Council and the ratepayers that the ferry should be properly worked, and that there should be proper landing stages on both sides. The Ferry Committee, in the first instance, should try to come to an understanding with the Harbour Trust, and, failing this, the Council would then consider what could be done. Mr W. J. Williams remarked that the rent of from the ferry was only JE30 a year, and this would not be sufficient to pay interest on the £ 1000 proposed to be expended. The Corporation must go in for a special Act of Parliament or leave things as they are. Mr J. Issard Davies observed that sooner they face the difficulty the better. The opinion of the ratepayers should be tested with the view of obtain- ingan Act of Parliament. It was doubtful whether the Harbour Trust possessed the necessary borrow- ing powers. Mr J. T. Roberts said that sometime ago he made the audacious proposal that a public meeting of the ratepayers should be called to con- sider whether they should go in for a special Act of Parliament. Then he received no support, but now he finds that the Council had become wis3. If the Corporation were to take the ferry into their own hands in two or three years it would repay the whole expense of the Act of Parliament. Dr Parry: I would suggest that the Mayor and the chairmen of the Finance aad Ferry Committees be appointed a deputation to place the matter be- fore the Trust. We shall then know what can be done. Mr M. T. Morris was afraid that the Council was raising difficulties. They seemed to tell the Trust what to do. Ha thought it would be unwise to ask the townspeople to subscribe towards de- fraying the expense of making the improvements. He did not believe they would be able to raise the necessary sum. What was a sum of £1000 for a large town like Carnarvon if put in the rates. They were doing illegal things sometimes, and in fact this had been done by them during the last three or four years. They were losing sight of another fact. The Anglesey people were interested in the ferry, and they would bene- fit if the proposed improvements were made. They ought to call upon the Anglesey people to assist them in this matter, and the County Council and j District Council should also be applied to for assistance. Several Anglesey gentlemen were pre- pared with subscriptions. I It was agreed to appoint a committee to meet the Harbour Trust, ani, if thought necessary, to take I steps for opening a subscription list. TECHNICAL EDUCATION. Mr Issard Davies gave notice to move at the next meeting that a rate be levied for the purpose of raising £ 250 towards technical education in the town to meet a similar sum which is to be con- tributed by Mr W. Rathbone. If the rate was levied, the Science and Art Department would meet it with a grant. TIME OF MEETINGS. On the proposition of Mr H. Lloyd Carter it was decided to hold the meetings of the Council in future at six o'clock instead of half-past five. THE LIBRARY COMMITTEE. Mr J. Jones. Minafon, wrote resigning his mem- bership of the Library Committee. Mr R. S. Parry Joues, and Mr J. O .ven, head- master of the ^Intermediate School, were elected, the Committee being augmented. | CHOIR PRACTICES. Mr John Williams, organist. Christ Church, wrote asking for the use of the Guild Hall for the rehearsals of the Carnarvon Choral Union, re- organised for the purpose of competing at the Llandudno Eisteddfod. The application was granted on the usual terms. BANKING TERMS. Mr D. T. Lake gave notice that at the next meeting of the Council he should question the borough treasurer (Mr Humphreys) as to the banking terms of the Council with the Old Bank.