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! BANGOR AND BEA.UMARIS UNION.)

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BANGOR AND BEA.UMARIS UNION.) DISPLEASED GUARDIANS ASD SQUANDERING COMMITTEES. [FROM OUR OWN REPORTER.] The first meeting of the newly-elected board was held on Wednesday at the Workhouse, Ban- gor, when there were, present: Col. the Hon. W. E Stckvil e Weit (in the chair), Messrs Thomas Lewis, Wm. Jones, Robert Hughes, Hugh Hughes, Robert Roberts, David Williams, George James, John Jona3, Robert Jones, William Roberts, Eleazer Richard Abraham, William Edwards, Robert Hughes (Bodloadeb), John Williams, John Taylor, Hugh Thomas, Enoch Edwards, Morris Williams, John Morgan, Thomas Jones, Owen Roberts, G. R Dew, Richard Jones, Evan Owen, Richard Evans, Owen Owens, Thomas Edwards, William Roberts, Thomas Owen, John Williams, Revs John Morgan, and H. Davies Owen. REPRESENTATION OF LLANFAES. Mr Thomas Joues, Menai Bridge, having ex- amined the printed list of the members of the new board, inquired why Llanfaes was not represented on the board. There had always been a guardian for th it parish, and he wished to know why was there aone this time. ThE Olerk explained that the nomination was valid, but that the parish would, in course of time, be represented on the board. APPOINTMENT OF CHAIRMAN. The Clerk having read the clauses of the act of Parliament giving power to late chairmen to act for th-J former part of the proceedings of the first meeting cf new boards, stated that the next business would be to elect a chairman. J Mr George Jame3 rose to propose that Col. West tore-elected. There was no need for him to go and eulogize the good feelings which the board ielt towards Col. West, as his actions were aufficie at. The .lev H. D. Owen seconded this proposal in a few 'vords complimentary of the chairman. The vote was then put to the meeting, which was carried unanimously. Ool. West, in response, said that he had to thank them for the preof they had given of the con- fidence they had in him as chairman. He trusted they wodd go on for the year to come with the same good feelings as heretofore. There was no use of his goiiig to make a speech, as he had spoken at some length at the previous meeting. It had been supposed, from his speech on that occasion, that his views on the question of out-ielief were not in harmony with those of the other members of the board, but whether or not, it was quite evident thatl,hey had all the same object in view. As he had t aid before, a board like theirs was a great powor for good or for evil, and he hoped that everything done by them would be such as would givo them credit, Mr Murray Brown remarked in a few words oo-mplin-ientary of the chairman, that a short time ago he was at an annual ball in London where Colonel West had given a splendid speech, which was highly complimented. He thought the board ought to feel thankful that they had such a abairman as Colonel West. VICB-CJIAIRMEX. Mr Richard Evans proposed, and Mr Robert Hughv gecornle■i.'thuti the Rev. H. Davies Owen and Mr Thomas Lewis be elected vice-chairmen. This was agreed to, the first named gentleman to be the eeuior vice-chairman. THE UNION BYE-LAWS. The Clerk, as is customary at the first meeting of newly elected boards, read the bye.laws of the union. Mr Pennant Lloyd: Who made those rules ? The Clerk: They were drawn out by this board in the year 1337. Mr Pennant Lloyd: Do you stick to those rules aowP The Chairman: There being as old as 1837 does not make them objectionable. Mr George James: The rules are all right. Tho deficiency lies in the gentlemen over whom they have control. Mr Pennant Lloyd You are not standing up to address the chairman (laughter). A guardian then pointed out that the rules read to the meeting pointed out that there should be no more than three gentlemen on the executive com- mittee, but now they had a good deal more. The Clerk stated that the addition had been made according to act of Parliament. Mr Pennant Lloyd suggested that the bye-laws be altered. Mr George James I doa't think they are very ba1 (laughter). The question then dropped. EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE. The following gentlemen were elected to serve on the executive committee., -Lord Penrhyn, Mr Bulkeley Price, Mr Charles Peers (ex-offlcios), Mr Robert Roberts, and Captain Pennant Lloyd. Captain P. Lloyd wished the board to withdraw his name.. Mr George James wished Mr Lloyd not to with- draw. They could not get a better man than k^Captftin P- Lloyd stated that the difficulty with the matter was that he was not qualified as a mag- istrate for the county of Anglesey. The_Clerk said that Captain Lioyd was as well •uamfed aa any gentleman on the board. A justice of Carnarvonshire or Anglesey was equally • aalified to serve on the executive. This having been stated, Captain Lloyd sub- mitted to have his name entered on the executive list. THE ASSESSMENT COMMITTEE. The following gentlem on were as- sessment committee —Lord Penrhyn ( ^fficio), Messrs Richard Evans, Thomas Lewis, vi. a. Dew, Ool. West, Messrs Robert Hughes, Thomas Jones H. Bulkeley Price, Robert Roberts, Capt Pennant Lloyd, Rev H. Davies Owen, Messrs Charles i terce, Hugh Thomas, Thomas Edwards. Tha Rev H. D. Owen: There are zaore gentle- men proposed than are sufficient. Would it not be better to strike off those names who represent the smaller parishes, so that the committee may pretty well represent the rates of the union. Mr Pennant Lloyd protested against this being done, and stated that the small parishes ought to liave the same chance as the larger parishes. Why ihould they look upon the question from the rate- able value point of view ? Thoso whro rdd little paid as much in their own capacity as those who were large ratepayers. There ought to be no difference made between the poor parishes tl-m the wealthy parishes, nor between the poor rate- payers and the large ratepaycls (cheers). Mr Geerge Jamea Since there are too many proposed, I believe you have naraed some gentle. men in the list who did not attend last year. Had you not better strike those names off ? Mr Thomas E iwards said he wished to withdraw hia name from the list, then making the Carnar. Vtnahire representatives the requirt d number. The Rev John Morgan thought, it would be the best thing, as Mr James had suggested, to strike off the names of those who had attended worst iuring last year. The Chairman read the attendance of the pre- vious year's committee. Mr George James: Then, Mr Thomas Lewis is t' • 'west. V r Thomas Lewis explained that last year he was ho heavily laden with work that he was quite unable to attend, and that it was quite an excep- tion, that he had never been so indisposed bafore. It was then decided to put the names of the Anglesey representatives to the meeting, in order to have a vote on the question. This having been done, Hugh Thomas was excluded, the votes being :—The Rev H D. Owen, 25 Mr Richard Evara 18 Mr G. R. Dew, 18 Mr Thomas J mes, 14 Mr Hugh Thomas, 12. THE FINANCE COMMITTEE. The whole of the finance commits e were re- elected, with the exception of Mr Thomas Hughes, I who was not a member of the present board, and who was substituted by Mr G. R. Dew. VISITING COMMITTEE. I The members of this committee were also re- I elected. Mr Robert Roberts, Bodlondeb, and Mr • Davies, Treborth, were added to it, the I MP* ^ace hughes, SCHOOL ATTENDANCE COMMITTEE. On the motion of Mr Enoch Edwards, this com- I, mittee was re-elected. WOBRWOU8H DBAINAOE. The Chairman stated that the Local Government Board had sent a communication in reference to the fires at the workhouse and the drainage of the house. He (the chairman) thought, when bring- ing the matter before the last board, that they would have a committee to deal with it, but they had had no opportunity. However, he was of opinion that they could do nothing with the matter at the board, as the subject was one for some committee, and he wished to know what committee they could refer it to. Mr Robert Hughes Could we not refer it to the sanitary committee. This was objected to, and it was decided to refer the question to a special committee. REPRESENTATION OF LLANFAIRFECHAN LOCAL BOARD ON THE SANITARY COMMITTEE. One of the Llanfairfechan guardiana complained that the Llanfairfechan Local Beard was not pro- perly represented on the sanitary board. Bethesda Improvement Commissioners had three represent- atives and they had none. He wished to know I how was it that Llanfairfechan was not repre- sented. The Clerk said that it would be to the great advantage of the authority if that place was repre- sented, as they had some questions relative to Llanfairfechan continually before them for dis- cussion. THE SANITARY COMMITTEE. The Clerk stated that the next business would be to appoint a sanitary committee, when Mr Thomas Jones, Menai Bridge, rose to pro- pose that the whole board should form itself into a sanitary authority, and that no committee be elected. Mr Jones said: I beg to move that the guardians do not delegate their authority to any committee, but do act as the rural sanitary authority ourselves. I have several reasons for this course. 1st., Why should we delegate our rights to a committee when the occasion upon which we can exercise our rights in this blessed land of ours is so curtailed by officialism and red-tapeism. All business of any importance is done for us by some officials or ether, or by some committees or other, here and elsewhere. The authority over many important matters that apertain to us ir our several counties and boards ,of guardians is at present exercised by some authorities or ether in London, and I have no sympathy with such unnatural state of things. If our money is to be expended, I claim we ought to have a right of looking over such expenditure, and not to allow others this privilege. To-day we have an opportunity to use such a privilege, and I trust we shall be wise enough to keep it in our own hands, rather than delegate it to any other persons whatsoever. My second reason is, that now many guardians have no opportunity to express their minds on any outlay that the sanitary committee may fceinenrring in their par- ishes. Our chairman has ruled that no questions can be asked by any person at this boaid or raise, any discussion with regard to any sanitary matters however important once we have delegated our powers to a committee. Then it behoves us to be careful and consider well our position before we take such a course. I There may be some guardians present who do not take the same interest in these matters as I do, as they are more fortunately placed in dis- tricts where the local board is in force, and they have the management of their own affairs in their own hands, and can, if some of their members displease them, turn them out at the first election • but it is not so with us who are more disadvan- tageously placed under the urban authority of this unioB. Once we delegate our authority to a committee, the power of displacing that committee is altogether lost, as we are all only here for one year, and perhaps will never have the chance of displacing the committee that have displeased, and squandered our money upon what some of us might consider as trivial or unnecessary improve- ments. Now the opportunity is within our reach, and shall we not keep it? My third reason is, that as a committee it is not always we can find sufficient members present to form a quorum. I have been here myself more than once waiting for an hour or more for members to turn up, and had to go home without doing any business. The time of us who were present was qiite as valuable perhaps as those who were absent, but nothing could be done without a quorum, and even if we did discuss something, that was entirely thrown away, as it could not be binding, or indeed of any value whatever, without the quorum. Well, I don't believe such will happen if the whole board be the sanitary authority, as I am sure we can always find more than five members who will take an interest in what is going on. But even suppos- ing one of u« would have been glad to be present at the meetings last year—when something impor- tant was to be done in his parish,—why, he would not be allowed but here is a chance in which he I may be present and take as much interest as lie likes. Those members who are under a local board may stay away if they like, but we should be very glad to see them here, for we might derive a great deal of benefit from their mora extended experience. Fourth reason: The otxiy argument that can be b ought against this mode of conduct- ing our sanitary business is that it would take longer time to arrive at decisions on important questions, and that same might be absent from one. meeting, and in another, thereby perhaps k.HV? 'oni8 which could have been avoided Z a Present at all meetings. This, I Sen °CCUr' b.ut 1 think wouid be better matters lonSer discussing many nvifl'AhW 5 time very often be 1 don'fc think this argument A?cec?o- it sufficiellt to keep us from oSeftU expert,™ 1Uth°rity hands wn«e ot this Doard in our own joS'fMotalS" (Anglesey) rose to second Mr resolution. Mr Thomas Lewis in proposing an amendment the b°°ri « US™ years gone by, that he was very sorry to differ from his Jones on this matter He did not think Mr Murray Browne could brine testimony 1 o the efficiency of the scheme proposed by Mr Jones, as it did not work well m other un- ions. He thought the greatmt., difficulty would follow if this new schemo. was adopted. There was a charge made against tne committee for not carrying oa improvements at Menai -Bridge in as short time as was advisible, but they ought to bear in mind that there were many obstacles in the way. Whatever was left undone at that place it was not the faulc of the committee, and he was quite sure if the business required to be done at 1 Menai Bridge was discussed at a full board it would have occupied very much more time. Details of plans and specifications could never be I passed before a whole board. He believed the most easy way, as well as the most effectual way, to transact the sanitary business of the union would be to conduct it in committee and not in full boards. Personally, he had no objection, but he was sure that a whole board could not conduct the business of the sanitary authority like a few gentlemen could. There was not a single reason which induced him to believe that they had better adopt the new step suggested and proposed by Mr Jones. Mr Pennant Lloyd rose to comment upon the speech of Mr Lewis, and to support the motion of Mr Joiie T, when both Mr Lewis and Mr Bulkeley Price rose to order, stating that Mr Pennant Lloyd had no right to comment upon the remarks the first named gentle- man had uttered, as there was no seconder. Mr Robert Hughes immediately took the oppor- tanity of seconding Mr Thomas Lewis's proposal, thus allowing Mr Pennant Lloyd to proceed. Mr Lloyd said that the sanitary committee had not been a very good one. Some gentleman who was was with him at Menai Bridge the other day asked him bad they not a sanitary authority at that place. He was sorry to tell that man that they had a committee, but that it was not a very active one. There was an saying which gave them to understand that one ounce of practice was worth a pound of theory." He did not intend, when coming to reside in Wales,^to take part in any public matter; but had been pressed to take a seat on the board to represent Menai Bridge, in order to try to carry out some improvements at that place. He consented, and was there as the representative of a large number of ratepayers. He, on one occasion, asked a question on the sanitary condition of Menai Bridge to the chairman of the board, Col. West, but was informed that no questions relative to sanitary improvements could be asked at the:ordinary board of guardians. The chairman, however, afterwards promised to reply to the question in the course of three weeks. He went back from that meeting, and told the Menai Bridge people that he could not pit the question of the sanitary improvement of that place before the board in less than three week's time. When he remonstrated with the chairman to have the question of improvements put to the meeting of the whole board, he was told by him that it was against the act of Parliament. The clerk also told him the same thing, and he subsequently make inquiries and found that both the chairman and clerk were mistaken on that point, and was informed that the guardians of the poor had the law in their own hands respecting the sanitation of the places they represent. He maintained that the board should sit as a sanitary authority, and have into their own hands what hitherto had been prohibited to them. The Chairman: Let me make one explana- tion. Capt. Pennant Lloyd: Very well; I like ex- planations. The Chairman: I never said anything about the act of Parliament. Capt. P. Lloyd: I beg your pardon, you did. The Chairman: No; I never mentioned such a thing. I never said that the guardians had no power to ask questions at the board relative to the sanitary condition of the place they represent. The chairman then read the letter of the Local Government Board authorities, which had been sent to the board in reply to a communication sent up alter Mr Pennant Lloyd's question, was first asked, and which was deferred for three weeks. The letter ruled that no questions relative to sanitary business could be asked at a general meeting. The Rev H. D. Owen said that he, as the original proposer of the motion to seek the advice of the Local Government Board on the question of the right of members to ask questions on sanitary matters at the general meetings, was still of the same opinion as he was when be proposed it first. He thought there was no need of the guardians doing anything in this respect in the general meetings. The committees were very well attended as a rule, and they paid every attention to their duties. He was suie there was no danger of their being over-sluggish or squandering the moneys of the public. There was no biame attached to any of the committee for what had taken place at Meuai Bridge. Colonel Williams wished to know how Mr Jones intended to carry out bis proposal if the whole members composed the sanitary authority. He thought that work entrusted to everybody would be done by nobody. Besides, if the whole board sat, could they get through the business in one daj. He thought they had not better change the committee before giving it a fair t.ial. It would be wel1 if it was allowed to go for another, twelve months, and then if necessary to change it. He was certain they could not very well manage to carry on the business in a full board as they could in a small committee of practical men. Mr George James: How many constitutes the committee. The Chairman: It is made up of twelve mem- bers. Mr George James: The number of this board is 60; and if you make an authority of the whole board it will be more an obstacle in the way than anything else. Mr Thomas Edwards rose up to second Mr Thomas Lewis's proposal that the board should not constitute itself into a sanitary authority. Mr Jones bad brought an accusation against the sanitary committee —— Mr Jones: I object to your* using that word. I i never said anything against the committee, nor did I charga anyone with an accusation. Mr G. R Dew said lIe aonsidered the question of sanitation next to that of relief. With relief, the parishes were put to great expense, and they ha l, on that account, representatives on the board. It was the tatne with the sanitary business; parishes were incurred with heavy expenses, and ought to be represented for that reason. How- ever, ic was not so in the Bangor Union. Parishes were put to expensive undertakings without the Nice of the parishioners themselves being heard on the matter. When the improvements were first instituted at Menai Btidge, that pariah was not represented on the committee, hence the great difficulty which they bad had with Llanfair. It was a rule that every parish should be represented on the board, and therefore he could not see that the committee system would answer the purpose as a sanitary authority. He, however, did not wish to mak-f any charges against the committees of the past. Mr Jones only was allowed to represent Menai Bridge on sanitary questions. That place had more guardians; but they were not allowed to deal with the subject. It was stated by those who supported the old way of dealing with the sanitary question by committee that if the whole board was instituted into an authority no business could be conducted. But this w&s very easily explained, there was no difficulty at all in carry- ing out the proposal of Mr Jones. It was pointed out that the attendance wculd be too numerous to allow of any business being done. He was not of such opinion; if any parish had no sanitary business or improvements connected with it, the represi ntatives of such parish would never come I to the meetings of the authority. If any guardian represented a paris-h where there was never sanitary business transacted for its improvement, surely that guardian would not attend the board meetings. No guardian would attend unless there was aometing to do for his own pirhh. He felt sure that the meetings would not be too fully attended to allow the transaction of business, and he felt certain that even though the whole board be con. stituted into a a sanitary authority, it would be quite possible for the attendance to go as small as it it were a sanitary committee. Sometimes it might bo as small as five or six; and at other times perhaps, when th9re were business which was brought to bear upon many parishes, the attend- ance might raise to about thirty members. Mr Bulkeley Price said he wished to say a few words about Mr Jones's remarks. He did not know j then whether or not he would support his proposal. It depended upon what answer Mr Jones could ] give la his summing up Mr Jones had made 1 one charge against them as a comroi tee, and he i could not see that it could be substantiated. However, a great deal of truth bad been spoken on both sides, so much that he had not made up his mind with what side to vote. It depended mostly, as he had said before, upon Mr Jones's reply to the explanations offered trom the committee's side. He aid not believe that the attendance at meetings of thes<*nitary authority would be nothing like the attendance at the board that day but his belief 'Was that the business would even then fall into the hands of very few membeie of the board of ruardians He was of the same opinion as Mr Pennant Lloyd, that the wiaola guardians were responsible for the sanitary condition of the parishes they represent as well as every other thing. ALT Price went on further and spoke on the side of the committee, stating that in his I opinion a committee would be better than a whole board authority. Mr Robert Roberts, Post OSIco, then said a few words in support of Mr Thomas Lewis's amend- ment. He had been on the sanitary committee, and he never remembered their meetings falling through on account of there being no quorum. There was also a charge bro:, ht against the com- mittee of having squandered the moneys of the public. This was not the case, and in the most important instance of expenditure the parishioners themselves had called for the improvements and expenses so. that it was not the committee who had imposed upon them but it was there own dicta- tion which originate 1 the scheme. Mr Pennant Lloyd had said that he had qualified himself as a justice in order to serve the public. Was that gentleman always in attendance at the committee meetings. Mr Pennant Lloyd: Yes. Mr Roberts, going on, asked why then did Mr Pennant Lloyd ask for information on the subject discussed at those committees. He thought Mr Lloyd ought to attend the committees if he wanted any information relative to the business transac- tions of the committees Mr Hugh Thomas (Beaumaris) said that most of the gentlemen who had previously spoken were members of local boards It was no wonder at all, then, that gentlemen who sat on local boards should oppose the board forming into a sanitary authority. But why should such gentlemen refuse them, who were guardians, the same privilege as they enjoy in their other capacity as members of local boards? There was no reason why they should not have the same power over the parishes as the local boards bad over towns. Let them form themselves, as guardians, into a sanitary authority, and try how it would work for one year and if it did not go on properly they could fall upon the old practice of dealing with sanitary matters by committees. Mr Pennant Lloyd When I asked for informa- tion I was not a member of the sanitary com- mittee Mr George James: There has been a mention made of members of loeal boards, and I —— The Chairman You shan't speak, Mr James, more than once on the same subject, unless you have some explanation to make. Mr George James Well, Mr Chairman, I was going to explain —— The Chairman ruled Mr James out of order, and remarked that if the board formed itself into a eanitary authority, it must meet as such. He could not preside at both and no question relative to sanitary matters should be asked at ordinary meetings of the board of guardians. He could only say for himself that they ought to prove that there had been some neglect on the part of the committee before proceeding to adopt a new system. Mr Thomas Jones briefly replied to the remarks made on .his proposal. He said he was very sorry to have been understood to bring charges against anybody. He did not mean to say so, and he must have been mis-understood. He believed all members had a right to be present at the meetings of the assessment committee. Why could not all the members attend the meetings of that com- mittee, and afterwards form into a sanitary authority P What Mr Edwards bad said that work done by all would not be done by anybody, was in his opinion no argument against his proposal. The subject was then closed, and upon the chairman putting it to the meeting, the votes were I Forthe ameyadment. 12 For the amendment t 12 For the original motion 18 Mai oritv 6 The Chairman then declared the motion carrried. The Chapman: Tha question now before the board is, When shall we meet as a sanitary authority ? I' A Member: Could we not meet immediately after the meeting of the assessment committee ? Mr Bulkeley Price thought it would be the best thing to leave that question until some time again. They could meet after the ordinary meeting of the next board, and at that meeting appoint the time of holding the regular meetings. Mr Thomas Jones What time does the assess. ment committee meet ? The Chairman: At half, past ten. Mr Jones: Could you not summon a meeting of the sanitary authority at half. past eleven on the same day P The Chairman Yes but the assessment com- mittee may Bit till one o'clock. Mr Jones: Could net the sanitary committee be held first, and let the assessment committee fol- low ? The Chairman: ls"o; people are summoned to attend the assessment committee, and we could not expect them to wait here all day. Mr Edwards Could not the committee meet after the general meeting of the board ? That would be a very good thing to test the fidelity of the members to act on th& committee. Mr Pennant Lloyd Why cannot we meet after the assessment r The only thing we want is to get the proper time to assemble after that commit- tee. It was decided to hold the first meeting of the board as a sanitary authority after the meeting of the assessment committee oa Wednesday next. NOTICB 01" MOTION. Mr John Morgan gave notice that he would call attention at the next meeting of the board to the remarks of the chairman at the last board on the question of out-relief, &c.

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