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NATIONAL EDUCATION. To DEPUTATION FROM THE NATIONAL EDUCATION LEAGUE AT NEWPORT. A meeting was held on Wednesday evening at the Town Hall, Newport, for the purpose of hearing an address from Mr. Lloyd Jones, a deputation from the National Education League, as also to hear addresses from the Revs. S. Kennedy and D. Evans, the depu- tation who attended from Newport at the late Confe- rence at Aberystwith. The Mayor of Newport occu- pied the chair. There was also on the platform the Revs. H. Oliver, B.A., P. W. Darnton, B.A., D. W. Pennell, H. S. Elvins, D. Evans, J. W. Lance, W. Edwards, and Messrs T. B. Batchelor, R. S. Roper, — Sully, Pontypool, &c., &c. The body of the hall was pretty well filled. The Mayor, after a few prefatory remarks, said he had come to the meeting prepared to expound his own views upon the question, but he desisted, having heard with regret that the quest: on was likely to be- come a party one. He would, under those circum- stances, prefer to listen to what others had to say. He would introduce the Rev. David Evans, one of the deputation to the Aberystwith Conference. The Rev. D. Evans explained at some length the proceedings at the Aberystwith Conference. There were parties who attended there from all Christian denominations throughout the principality. He might state also that there was good feeling throughout. Some difficulty was felt with regard to the introduc- tion of the Bible, but the majority were for it3 exclu- sion as a class book, believing that its introduction did more harm than good. The Rev. S. Kennedy then addressed the meeting. He said that at the Conference they came almost unani- mously to the conclusion that the system of educa- tion should be free, unsectarian, and compulsory. That was passed in the form of the first resolution. But then came the second resolution, which was car- ried, which almost set aside the first. It was, "That this Conference deems the direct religious teaching now imparted in day schools of but little value and is confident that the spiritual training of the young may be fully and safely entrusted to parents and the Christian Church but this does not mean to exclude or impose the reading of the Bible." He might say there were many present, members of various Churches, who were extremely anxious that some religious teaching should be provided. The speaker read the remaining three resolutions agreed to by the Con- ference. The Mayor then introduced to the meeting the de- putation from the National Education League, Mr. Lloyd Jones, who said he thought that, before say- ing anything as to the state of education in Wales, or to give them any reason why they should co-oper- ate with those who were labouring in the field of education, it would be well if he stated to them some- thing a3 to the condition of that country, and as to the reasons why so large a number ot persons had associated themselves together for the purpose of de- manding a large and liberal system of education. Now, in the first place, they must bear in mind this -that the National Education League had not been organised for the purpose of putting aside any institu- tion in existence. The National Education League existed not for the purpose of destroying, but for the purpose of creating,—not for the purpuse of doing away with any education, but for the purpose of establishing a system of education that should extend widely, liberally, and effectually all over the nation, so that no human creature in this island, so that the child of no man shall be without the means of that education. (Cheers.) Now as to the general reasons that prompted them in this movement, and the result of the past system of education. He need not go into statistics and statements to prove that there were a large number of people at present without education. No doubt most of them present were already ac- quainted with that. He might, however, say that the number without education was estimated at from seventeen hundred thousand to two millions. Now if they took those who never went to school, those who would go only for a short time and were irregular in attendance, and soon forget what they learned there, and those who were at school and got a kind of educa- tion worse than useless, he had no doubt one-half of those might be accounted as going entirely without education. He would state, however, the diffi- culties in giving these figures, taken as they were, first from the returns of the League, then from the Union, then from Lord Robert Montague and other sources, they found that they nearly all made their calculations from different data. Some calculated from the number of school children, others took school attendance, some placing the term of attendance at five years, and others at four years, and some at a longer period. Now it was not necessary that they should agree upon those figures supposing they took a less number, supposing they took 700,000, and then said even a thousand or two less than that number, what reason was there why every man and woman in the country should not receive an education ? As to ioTiorance being the cause of crime and pauperism, there was little use in telling them that, and that many persons who were well educated were still criminally disposed. Unfortunately, they knew that was a fact; and they knew this-that an uneducated man was helpless. (Hear, hear.) He wanted know- ledge, for it was that which placed him right and kept him right. Without it he had not power over the faculties given him by God, therelore as a nation they ought to take up this work and if they did not be- come a wealthier, they must become a better people, inasmuch as they would approach more to the perfec- tion of human nature. But, beyond that, there were other reasons that came home to them very strongly, and which reasons, as practical men, they were bouud to respect. In calling attention to the advantages and discoveries of the past, which had placed them in the front of the world as a manufacturing population, he would say that in that respect the continental nations were gradually coming up to them, in conse- quence of the operation of various causes to which he need not fully refer but what they wanted to get at was the fact as to whether such was the case or not, and whether a higher system of education in those continental nations did not produce such good results as very much endangered this country's supremacy as a manufacturing people, and whilst they were differ- ing as to sects, and as to whether people were right on this or that scheme, others were not failing to do that work which would give them pre-eminence. Now he held in his hands one of those volumes published by the Board of Education, and the reports made by the Commissioners sent to inspect the various brarches of trade, and the productions exhibited at the great ex- hibition in Paris, in 1867. Every one of their staple manufactures, great or small, exhibited there, was re- ported on but he would only give them one or two of those which were staple branches, and sources from which a large number of people procured their liveli- hood. There was the cotton trade which was reported on. The speaker then read an extract from the report which eulogised the system of education pursued on the continent, and the immense advantages gained thereby, and stated that if England were to retain pre- eminence, it must be by a similar system of educa- tional development. Then there was the report from the person who inspected the furniture and other de- partments of that kind, and his statament was almost the same. He stated that without education they C )lùd not expect to get skilled workmen. Having read a long extract from the report, the speaker said he mentioned those matters to them, not that they were immediately connected with primary ( education, which was what the League went for, but simply to tell them, that they could have no secondary or technical education of any value unless they had first, primary education which was a preparation of the soil for the receiving of fchat higher instruction which would eventually enahftS Englishmen to hold their own against all comers. Well, was not question of National Educa- tion one of momentous interest ? Under these circum- stances, then, the people of England were at present turning thfcir attention to the subject. They had the members ofA< the League, the Members of the Union, and the Government they had all parties trying to find out soiAe scheme, some plan, which Xvould apply to the whole' nation. They boasted that they were of the good old Anglo-Saxon race, that they never ap- plied great force at first; but they did it bit by bit, I until they attained great things. Perhaps it would be so in the present instance but when they reflected j upon the fact that five years or thereabouts was an educational generation—that when five years had passed the whole of a generation had passed away from the school room-they would feel and see that education, of all things, was a matter they could not permit to be stifled. Inasmuch as every man and every woman were made for immortal purposes, they could not neglect such a duty-they could not allow generation after generation to go away in the direction of poverty and crime. (Cheers.) Now they saw that duty was recognised. Yes, but the duty was recog- nised long before the Union spoke out, and before the htate undertook any part in the matter. The duty was recognised by those hundreds of j zealous people belonging to the various religious denomina- tions. who undertook the work and thus each church and each chapel, each group of honest and zealous christian men asked themselves what they could do for the purpose of instructing the ignorant that on every side afflicted them. They were now going, and he thought properly too, for a more comprehensive system of education. In certain schools hitherto, they had taught according to the system they believed, and not adopted a general system. Hence, they had va- rious groups working, and working effectually and Lvuefictally, but not working universally. As he had said, there was an immense space, between those groups, of ignorance and poverty, and it had demora- lising and impoverishing effects. Then it was their duty as a nation to turn to the members of the Go- vernment, and say You must undertake this duty by our direction, and on our behalf you must do it, and see that no child shall grow up in ignorance." (Cheers.) The nation had now seen that certain things must be done, and the question at present was, how they could get good secular education, without forfeiting that spiritual training so essential for the well being of children. The League felt that if they went to the people of England, they would find, what had been their expressions and opinions over and over again, that no system which absolutely and en- tirely excluded the use of the Bible within the four walls of the schoolroom would ever have acceptance by them. The Leeds Conference considered that no im- pediment should be placed between the child and school, no matter to what denomination the child be- longed-that the whole of the hours, that is, the school hours proper, should be devoted to secular teaching, and that before school hours and after school hours, if zealous ministers and others felt they could do good by giving a little spiritual teaching, the School Board might, if they thought proper, per- mit the use of the schoolroom for the purpose of that teaching—that was, Catholic, Jew, Nonconformist, Episcopalian, or any other children who wished, could, without fear of interference on the part of any one connected with such place, have the privilege of being educated out of school hours by their own in- structor, and should have the use of the schoolroom for that purpose so long as they did not interfere with the legitimate working of the school. He knew why here in Wales they had strong feelings on the subject, he knew quite well, having seen the reports of their school inspectors—especially that admirable report of Mr. Bowstead-why they wished it out altogether. It was not because they did not want to have it at all not because they did not wish spiritual instruction imparted to the young but it was simply because they feared and expected, from past experience, that if any spiritual instruction were given in any way whatever their children would be taught doc- trines they did not wish. Now nothing could be more natural than that, as the conscience clause, so far as they were concerned, had not been respected. Those who had the power had used that power illegi- timately. Now he would tell them it was neither the intention nor the disposition of the Government to le- gislate for the nation as if it were fragmentary and not in unity nor was it the will nor the disposition of the nation to have such legislation. They had an ex- ception in Ireland, because it had already been legis- lated for by laws of its own and then Scotland had also a system of laws of its own which had long existed. Those cases the Government would treat exceptionally because they had been separate nations in regard to many of their political and social rights. But as between England and Wales it was not to be supposed that the British Parliament would make separate nations or them and give one system of education to England and another system of edu- cation to Wales. That they might put absolutely out of their heads. They wanted people to stand by all that was valuable-to hold fast that which was good: at the same time they must see as they (the League) saw, that in all that gave streogh to the nation -elevated the masses of the nation-they were bound one to another. Hence they should agree together to keep those good old customs which made them happy, without injury to others. They would bear in mind that since 1839, when the Committee of Council began to operate, they had spent altogether, in the various branches of education, buildings, teachers, &c., ten millions of money. Now it was not thought for one moment that that amount of material was to be put by and disregarded. The question was what remedy should they adopt when the present system ceased to work harmoniously—how should they enter on that new work they meant to do in order to put in force such measures that in the future would bring about higher results ? In the first place wherever educational convenience was deficient, there the Bill provided for School Boards, and they would mark this-to be elected in school districts by the ratepayers and he believed it was intended to propose the adoption of the ballot, which in Wales they could not object to. (Laughter.) They could then have Boards precisely what they wanted to make them, and then it was provided that those Boards should have power to build schools, partly out of rates and partly by payments from the Go- vernment. It was intended that where school ac- commodation was found to be already sufficient, they should have the power of negociating with the owners or trustees of present schools for the transfer of such schools by purchase or otherwise and thatjunder the new system the Boards should have power to compel attendance at such schools, or that a pledge be given that, under the inspection of the Boards and the Government Inspector, the children should be in- structed precisely under the conditions of the Bill,- that was, that no sectarian teaching should be per- mitted in regard to the children sent there by the School Boards. Now that, to his mind, was a reason- able provision but he could see how, in their minds, it would excite suspicion. They were afraid that cer- tain things would come if that were permitted. It was quite right they should suspect it; but in the first place the School Board had all the responsibility to see that Act was properly carried out in conformity with the Government instructions, and to prevent a violation of that law the School Boards were appointed by the ratepayers. If, however, as he had been told, there were districts in Wales where, after those regu- lations shall have come into force, the country squire or the rector would have power, and the poor people (who were not always a wise people) would be in- fluenced to do things which, if they were more inde- pendent, they would not do—they would allow him to tell them that no Government in the world could by Act of Parliament put a spirit of independence and intelligence into people who did not possess it but all they could do was to place the power into their (the public's) own hands, and if they confessed their inability to use that power, then something else must be adopted to secure them that protection they could not get themselves. Then why, it was asked, did they make it compulsory ? Now compulsory education was not a new thing, by any means. The whole of the Continent of Europe had admitted compulsory education. It was in Switzerland, Germany, Prussia, and getting into Spain. It was also in Italy. But how does it act ? Why in those countries he had mentioned, or those of them from which they received reports of Inspectors, such a thing as a case before the magistrates was rarely heard of. (Cheers.) Occasionally parents had received a first and second re- minder, but in no case did they have to bring the parent before the magistrates for not sending the child to school. Then it was said that the poor, especially in the agricul- tural districts, if their children were compelled to partake of the education provided, would have to starve. Now, if ) that was the case, it was time such a thing should cease. (Cheers.) It was disgraceful if such a state of things existed in rich England. Could any one tell him how it was that at the commencement of the present century, with only a thousandth part of the productive power they had at present, they had less pauperism than now-tell him how England had grown so rich, whilst hundreds of thousands were starving ? He attributed it to the want of education. It therefore behoved them to set their houses in order, and make better provision for the children of the present age, and those who were to come after them. Now it was for these reasons, and believing the Bill of the League as best calculated to meet their requirements, that he would ask them to co-operate with the League, to get bhe widest practical measure they could; that by their efforts every child might become capable of usefulness in bhe fields of industry, and also capable of holding his own in the sight of Heaven -as a moral and intellectual crea- bure. (Cheers.) Mr. Sully (Pontypool) addressed the meeting at great length, and much in the same strain as the previous speaker. He hoped the meeting would adopt the prin- ciples of the League, which were adapted to reconcile the conflicting views of various parties. The Rev. J. W. Lance had pleasure in proposing the following resolution :—" That in the opinion of this meet- ing the present state of the country calls for the establish- ment of a National System of Education; and that the only system of education consistent with the functions of Government, which will be equitable to all classes of the 1 British people, must be free to every child, secular, unsec- barian, and compulsory; and that inasmuch as these are in bhe main the principles of the National Education League, this meeting pledges itself to co-operate with the League in its efforts for the establishment of such a system." The speaker having read a list of the names of several gentle- men who would be asked to form a local committee, said he entirely agreed with Mr. Jones, that any system of education for England and Wales must be imperial. There was one word he should like to say upon the com- pulsory feature of the proposed bill. It was supposed by some to interfere with the rights and privileges of Britons. < He would just bring before them one saying from that ] good old book of which they had heard so much of late, i namely, The law is not made for a righteous man." If I they were all right they would not need any great national education scheme. The speaker lengthily alluded to the 1 enect upon working men's interests, of the withdrawal of a large amount of youthful labour. He was very much J dispose o go with the principles of the National Educa- tion League He was not himself so frightened at the ( idea of a little religious teaching before or after school as i some of his brethren were He would rather that should 1 be adopted than take the Bible into their schools and then I have it read without any explanation. He did not believe t in any such reading of the Bible as that. Mr. Henry Phillips seconded the resolution. I The Mayor asked whether any gentleman had an 1 amendment to propose. The Rev. D. W. Pennell having called attention to the t objections raised against compulsion, reminded them that the principle had been in force some considerable time in the Factory Acts. He saw difficulties and it was possible Mr. Jones could answer as to how those difficulties were bo be met. The question in relation to the.religious matter Wall jut this. They as Nonconformists said that the Legislature went beyond their province when they at- tempted to teach religion. It was not a part uf their business to do so. The speaker then asked how far the proposal to allow religious teaching would comport with their sentiments as Nonconformists. He, for one, thought the proposal impracticable. How were the Church of Eng- land minister, the Roman Catholic,and the Nonconformist, who wished to avail themselves of the room to give in- struction at the same time P He would like to know how those difficulties were to be met. His impression was, that if it were to be a national scheme of education it must be secular-that was to say, they must leave the matter of religion to those who professed an interest in it. Mr. Colborne here addressed the meeting. He was glad to see the Mayor present, and hoped he would have no ob- jection to preside at a meeting to hear the other side of the question. He called attention to the condition of the working classes on the Continent, remarking also that the Sabbath in those countries was not observed so becomingly as in England. Mr. Jones replied briefly to the observations of Mr. Pennell and Mr. Colborne, remarking, in response to the former, that the League did not propose that the Govern- ment should afford religious instruction and to the latter, strongly on the need of improved education for the artizan class. A vote of thanks to the Mayor, proposed by Mr. Lloyd Jones, and seconded by the Rev. Canon Hawkins, brought the proceedings to a close.

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