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BUDGET DEBATE. .

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BUDGET DEBATE. The Whiskey Tax. CHANCELLOR'S DEFENCE. The House of Commons on Monday proceeded to consider the Budget resolutions on the report stage. On the report of the resolution increasing the dutv on spirits by 3s 9d per gallon, Mr WATSON RUTHERFORD (C.) moved an amendment providing that the Customs duty on spirits distilled in the Colonies and British dominions should not exceed the Excise duty payable on spirits distilled in the United Kingdom. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Baid this matter had been very carefully looked into by the late Government, who while de- ciding; against the remission of the surtax of 4d had increased the grant in aid to the West Indies with a view to enabling those Colonies themselves so to re-arrange their fiscal system as to make the surtax less of a burden. The present Government accepted the decision come to by Mr Joseph Chamberlain when Colonial Secretary. The amendment was withdrawn. Sir H. CRAIK (C.) scouted the idea that the purpose of the Government in increasing the spirit duties was the promotion of temperance. He warned them that their proposal was finan- cially unsound, because the increased duties would fall upon the industry and cripple it. Moreover, of the total of £ 9,200,(XX) raised by the increased duties Scotland would contribute bne-half. Mr T. P. O'CONNOR (Nat.) announced that the Irish party intended to renew their protest against the increased spirit duties at every opportunity. Sir JOHN DEWAR (C.) supported the com- plaint of Sir H. Craik that while n6t promoting temperance the increased duties would fail unfairly upon Scotland. Mr T. M. HEALY (Na.t.)a.cC11Sed the Govern- ment of breach of faith in regard to Irish finan- cial relations. From end to end of Ireland intense dissatisfaction with the Budget was being provoked. There was nothing but seething and angry discontent^and that discon- tent would have its fruit in directions which were little taken into account. Not one really loyal citizen was being left in the island. This was really a capitalistic Budget. Guinness's alone of the distillers in Ireland were not rais- ing their prices. Why ? They knew that before long the Conservatives would return to power, and that if they could only hold out for two or three years all their smaller competitors would be ruined and they would be in a position to I rule prices throughout Ireland. When the Government went out of office Ireland would ntt have received Home Rule, but two millions would have been added to her taxation. IE this Budget passed he did not Delieve there would be a voice raised in favour of law and order in Ireland. Degrees of Drunkenness. Mr WILLIAMSON (L.), supporting the pro- posal to graduate the duties according to age, and in favour of good whiskey, said a man got pleasantly drunk on good sound malt whiskey, but on raw grained fiery whiskey he became mad drunk. (Laughter.) Mr HOBHOUSE defended the taxation of Spirits. The controversy that had been raised thai afternoon was not as to the principle.of the tax or as to its incidence, but was an inter- necine quarrel between two schools of thought in the production of Scotch whisky. (Laugh- Mr AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN (C.) aud if Hie Government wanted to put. down spirii drinking as a social evil they should do it by direct legislation. They had no right to raise taxation to a point which made a man unable to-cany on his business which from every other aspect the law regarded as legitimate. Chancellor's Defence. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER 8aid he did not think the most unfair advocates of whiskey as a beverage would have ever re- garded that as one of the necessaries of life. (Hear, hear and laughter, j The right hon. gentleman (Mr Austen Chamberiain) bad for the last fortnight or three weeks been denounc- ing the Government because they were raising all their taxation on the rich. This was the part of the Budget where they sought to get a contribution from all parties. In order to do that they had to tax one of five commodities, namely, tea, sugar, tobacco, beer, or spirits. Wine would not yield anyihiiifc that would have been adequate for the purpose. The right hon. gentleman would have preferred putting the tax on sugar to putting it on whiskey, but he (Mr Lloyd George) was perfectly certain that the vast majority of the poor,whe;her-m Ireland or elsewhere, would eminently prefer patting it on whiskey. (Hear, hear.) The member for Louth asked why they did not put the tax on beer. A halfpenny on beer would represent on the pint very nearly 20 millions, and when they came to consider the fact that a good deal of beer was sold in glasses it would produce con- siderably more but he did not want 20 mil- lions of indirect taxation. It would have been 20 millions upon the workmen, and therefore the whole of the burdens for Dreadnoughts, old age pensions, and everything else would have passed on to the one class of the community, including, of course, the Irish workmen. There was an increasing consumption of beer in Ice- land, but the contribution of the Irish work- men to the taxation of the country was getting smaller every year as far as whiskey was con- cerned. He came then to tea, which was the drink of the very poor. The poorer the quality the higher the percentage of the tax. (Hear, hear.) When they came to the quality of the tea. drunk by the poor, whether in Ireland or in this country, a hundred per cent, of the price was represented by the duty, and wry often a good deal more. Mr LO UGH: The poor in Ireland drink much better tea than the rich in England. (Lighter.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he knew the Irish were very good judges of tea. When they came to the better class of tea drunk by the Irish and the English aristocracy they found that the per- centage was very much lower. This would therefore be a tax upon the very, very poor, and it would be a very cruel thing if he put this two millions dn tea. The Govern- ment were thus driven to tobacco and whisky, which were, after all, luxuries, and he thought it was perfectly fair that the contribution they asked by way of indirect taxation should be out of the spare money the people had tospend upon luxuries rather than out of the essentials of life. That was why the Government had chosen these two commodities. With regard to the estimated yield of the spirit tax it was very, largely a gamble the first year. They never knew how a new duty would turn out. First, there were forestalments then there was the possibility of evasion and diminished consump- tion. They lost 15s for every gallon by which the consumption fell off, and he had no doubt at all that the increase in the price would have the effect of very considerably decreasing the consumption of whiskey. It might have that effect in more ways than one, possibly by dilution and also by giving smaller measure. A tax of this sort was a rery risky speculation. A Chancellor of the Exchequer might make a lot of money over it or he might drop a lot, and he did not think, having all these elements of uncertainty to deal with, that he would be justified in giving anything but an exceedingly cautious estimate. Before the debates on the Budget cloeed they would be in a better position to form a more reliable estimate, and if there was & prospect of the tax working more favourably from the revenue point of view than the Government anticipated the House would be entitled to know what the facts were and to dispose of whatever surplus might be yielded in the way which suited it best. This had been the first experiment of putting on a taK which drovetheretailertoputit on the con- sumer, and he had done this deliberately because he did not thnpk it fair on a matter of this kind to i put on the tax in a way which would embarrass the Trade, and make it very difficult for them to pass it on to the consumer. It enabled the retailer to charge practically his increased licence duty upon the whiskey, and in moat cases he was doing it. He could quote figures to show that by the charges the publicans were asking they would be making a profit of four millions a year. Even making a considerable allowance for diminished con- sumption, they would probebty make same- thing like another million out of the whiskey Withdrawn from band upon which flieywere not paying 3s 9d. The Trade had, theefcee, ho particular right to complain. (MmiiiUitiul cheers.) Mr Batfour Astounded. Mr BALFOUR, (C.), who was received with loud Opposition Cheers, said he was absolutely astounded at the figures the right hon. gentle- man had just given to the House. Had they ever before heard of endowing the Trade on the scale which the Chancellor of the Ex- chequer had mentioned ? (Opposition cheers.) He understood from the right hon. gentleman that the distiller was going to give £1JjOO,OOQ to the Treasury and get £4,000,000 for himself. (Opposition cheers and laughter.) Had any human being ever heard of taxation being de- fended on that ground T (Renewed laughter.) No one from that side of the House had ever proposed to put four millions into the hands of one class of traders and only Ii millions into the Exchequer. That was one of the strange inconsistencies in this Government. These were the gentlemen who kept them there the whole of last autumn endeavouring to impose a most unfair burden on the Trade. Now they came forward with proposals which & member of the Cabinet who spoke on Saturday said was the second best method of dealing with the Trade, which turned out to be giving the distillers alone four millions a year. He did not know which was the more astounding—the financial inconsistencies or the legislative incon- sistencies of the Government. (Loud laughter.) There was another point The Chancellor of the Exchequer's broad fiscal justification of this taxation was that it would be most unfair to put new and heavy taxation on- the poorer classes. That was a very good broad general principle, in which he entirely concurred but on examining the method of carrying it out the Chancellor turned to Scot- land and Ireland, where whiskey was drunk by the working classes more than in England. How was he going to justify that if he was doing his best to bring in all classes of the community equally ? When the right hon. gentleman looked round upon the whole 43 millions of population of these islands he fixed his eves- on the people who lived north of the Tweed and west of St. George's Channel, and sssid, There are the poor men there is the true method of balancing your Budget." (Loud Opposition laughter.) He (Mr Balfour) did not think theywould hold water. (Loud general laughter.) He did not think they would succeed. As if the unfairness was not enough, there was a further absurdity. The right hon. gentleman said he could not be cer- tain about hisestimate of £1,600.000, because of abatements. Did he not see the extraordinary absurdity of putting on a gigantic tax which would not be paid this year, and of keeping it on next year, when it would not be wanted ? (Loud Opposition laughter.) As if the ab- surdity was not enough, he said he meant to induce or to drive the population of these islands who still drank whiskey to drink beer. Mr LLOYD GEORGE I never said a word about it. Mr BALFOUR The right hon. gentleman in his Budget speech Mr LLOYD GEORGE Oh, the Budget speech! (Opposition laughter.) What I said in that speech was that I had to reckon in making my estimates upon the probability of diminished consumption and that it might drive him to beer. I never said I put it on in order to drive him to beer. I have nothing to do with that. Mr BALFOUR said it now turned out that the right hon. gentleman distinctly contem- plated that the proposals which he put before the House for purely fiscal reasons were really going to divert industry from one channel to another. He thought that was a rather rash admission for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to make. If they put all these considerations together he thought the right hon. gentleman would see that the duty of defending his Budget had only just begun. (Prolonged Opposition cheers.) Mr W. REDMOND (Nat.) assured the Government that practically the whole of the Irish members would go into the Division Lobby against this proposal. Ireland had reached its limits in the matter of taxation. The report of the resolution was then carried by 243 to 176—majority 67. The report of the resolution imposing the corresponding Excise duty on spirits was carried by 243 votes against 123. Colonial Preference Urged. On report of the resolution imposing the Customs duties on tobacco, Mr JAMES HOPE (C.) moved an amend- ment the effect of which was to give a preference of 25 per cent. on tobacco, whether manufactured or unmanufactured, imported into the United Kingdom from any part of the British Empire. He calculated that this con- cession would not involve a loss to the revenue of more than £50,000 a year. Captain CRAIG (C.), in seconding the amendment, said if the Government would make this concession it wonld be a very grace- ful act with which to commemorate the day. (Opposition cheers). Mr HOBHOUSE The loss to the revenue would be £460,000. Whether the loss was great or small a very much larger question was in- volved in the amendment. He contended that there was no necessity for giving a further pre- ference to the Colonies in the home market, which was as free to them as it was to any other country. Sir GILBERT PARKER (C.) asked how the Government could object to the principle of granting a preference to Colonial tobacco when they gave a preference to tobacco grown in Ire- land, and subsidised cotton growing in Nigeria. The Government would not yield an inch to the twelve millions of people in our Colonies, but they yielded fast enough to the handful of gentlemen sitting below the gangway. (National and Labour ironical cheers.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer was fascinated by the ferocity of his own finance. Mr JOHN WARD (Lab.) said the House had not been told that Rhodesia wanted this pre- ference, and if it did, judging from some of the samples of its tobacco, it should not get it, for he was told that the stuff was only fit to burn on a bonfire. (Laughter.) The amendment was negatived by 185 to 57, and the resolution was carried. The debate was adjourned.

Tobacco & Petrol TaxesI

Fight on Footboard r

SURREY ROADSIDE MYSTERY.

OUR ARMY DIRIGIBLE.

IRELAND'S THR1 FITNESS.-

A Compromise Rejected.

JOINT BOARD PROCEEDINGS.

Coalownere' Attitude.

MABON ON THE SITUATION.

MR d. WILLIAMS, M.P., ON THE…

INJURY TO WELSH TRADE,

MtNERS' OUT-OF-WORK SCHEME.

RHOMDDA MtNERS' (No. 1) DISTRfCT.

RHYMNEY MINERS' MEETING. •

FfREWORK SHELLS.