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COMMONS v. LORDS .

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COMMONS v. LORDS MR ASQUITH AND THE SITUATION. "A Caricature and a Mockery." HOUSE OF COMMONS-Monday. The Speaker took the Chair at 2 45. The debate on the AiHress was resumed. Earl PERCY moved an amendment express- ing regret that the social legis ation declared by his Majesty's Government to be argent should be postponed for the purpose of effect- ing revolutionary changes in the powers exercised by Parliament over the iffairs of the United Kingdom and the constitutional relation bet Iveen the two Houses. The Government lie declared, occ.,r)i,d their present position by false pretences, and they were deliberately pre- paring themselves for a fresh lease of power by putting before the country a false and a coa- fused il'i'!uc. Thsir attack uduii the House of Lords turned out to be nothing bu; an attack upon the outworks of the defences of the Union. What they were really concerned with was an Iteration of the historic relations between Great Britain and Ireland. (Oppo- sition cheers.) Sureiy it was grotesque to eug^e11 that they were toaster the fundamental institutions of the country merely to bu i t the whims of a handful of people —(Ministerial dissent)—whose only concep- tion of progress appeared to be that of a motor car (lqtigliter) accompanied by &u uninterrupted emission of gas and a aeries of racking explosions. (Opposi tion laughter find cheers ) The point was not whether the House of Lords was friendly to this or that party, but whether it reflected the de libes. te judgment and opinions of the people Rt. the time Their policy was, as he understood, to limit the veto oi the House, retaining it as a means of giving honours to gentlemen with no dpin<oQs of their own, or who w--r, too idle to work—(Ministerial laughter and cheers)—or ■such snobs that their whole object in life was to bo called Lord instead of Mr." Such a plan urght commend itself to a Government which habitually lived in servile conditions— (laughter)—in a compound of the various see- tions of its party, but noSecond Jhamber would accept such a posit ion. It would make the House oI Commons a single Chamber in dis- guise, and its inevitable effect, must be to expose the Crown itself to attack. It was diflicult among the many mandates of the Govern- ment to discover one so revolutionary as this He agreed thit the issue, now it had been raised, inust go forward, and he had full confidence in the result. (Cheers and counter cheers.) Mi' Asquith's Reply. Mr ASQUITH who was loudly cheered by Vh« Ministerialists. said if it were not for its respectable origin and sponsorship it seemed to hiin that none of the amendments on the paper deserved less consideration than that moved by him that none of the amendments on t he paper deserved less consideration than that moved by the noble Lord. TIe could not imagine a more ¡' preposterous proceeding than to condemn the Government in anticipation for the production of schemes of which nobody but the Govern- ment had any knowledge at all. If," con- tinued Mr Asquith, when the schema of the Government is produced it contains any provi- sion which either in h-tter or in spirit is incon- listent wit hot- is a violation of any pledge, assur- ance or declaration that I have ever given either before or during the ekction-If that is the case and can be proved I will at. once resign my position in his Majesty's Government." "Cheerg ) It was quite true thai., he and several of bis colleagues had declared their belief that the g eat issue at the lfist, election was between Free Trade and Protection. and that the intro- duction OL a Bill foi-creatliigln Irish Legisla- ture with an Executive dependent upon and responsible to that House would not. and could not., fanH part of the business of the present House of Commons. It '.>fas also true, how- ever. t hat be and other members of the Liberal party had by vote condemned root and brwich the prtsent system of administration in Ireland. N'otv they were being deli- berately accused of holding their seats by I fake pretences. If a slander of that kind-it was nothing but a slander—(Ministerial cheers) —was going to be sot on foot the House would par'*on him if be overtook it at once before it had got legs and wings enough to get far upon its journey. (Ministerial cheers.} As far back as 1902 he had advocated as a remedy for the discontent, in Ireland and congestion of busi- ness in the Imperial Parliament the ever-in- creasing association of tho people of Ireland in ness in the Imperial Parliament the ever-in- creasing association of tho people of Ireland in the administration of their own affairs. That was a doc trine which be had preached ever since, and which be meant to practise to-day as far as opportunity- allowed. (Ministerial cheers.) To have tried to shelve the question of Ire- land would have indeed been to sink to the lowest depth of cowardice and political dis. honesty. (Renewed cheers.) There was no cha' ge of any sort or kind in the whole sphere of Irish, .administration which could not be J plausibly represented as leading up to Home VTKb were the-people who now talked x.hout< leading up to Memo Rule V With what kimi-of authority and with what cleanness of hands were thsse charges made ? Was not the F -I nnverr.rrio.nt Bill of the late Administra- tion a step towards Home Rule? He didn't want to go into the MacDonnell incident because it was a paii: Cul subject, but it had never yet been understood why the Chief Secretary had resigned and yet the Prime Minister had not—(Ministerial cheers)—or why if there was good reason for calling upon the Chief Secretary to resign the services of Sir A. MacDonnell had neen retained (Renewed cheers.) In the whole history of mankind there had een no more extraordinary, mysterious and inexplicable mstance of vicarious sacrifice. (Ministerial laughter and cheers.) His own test for legislative changes in Ireland was not whether they led up to Dome Rule, but whether they tended to get us further on the road towards the attainment of those two great purposes—the emancipation of the Imperial Parliament from business which it could not do. setting its hands clear for business which it ought to do and did not do and the growing association within the I rai s of Imperial unity of the Irish people with re- sponsibility for all purely Irish concerns. He believed there never was a moment when if the voice of an intolerant and dwindling faction could he still there was a belter prospect of making substantial advance with the general consent of reasonable men on the path which led to conI cntment. and loyalty. The Government •ipproached their task with the hope that their efforts might he attended with some share of the blessing which was promised to those who seek peace and ensue it." (Prolonged Ministerial cheers.) DISCRIMINATING PEERS. As to the question of the House of Lords the noble Lord had twitted them wi'h not hav- ing mad.) up their minds as to the nature of their grievance. If this were true they must indeed be stow in making up their minds. Millistcrial cheers and laughter.) Did the ncb!o Earl or anybody else defend the pre- sent system under which a Second Chamber accepted practically without demur every- thing presented to it by a Tory House of Com- mons and rejected or mutilated with as littie hesitation, subject to the restricting influence of an occasional tit of prudent alarm, every j measure sent up by a Liberal Government ? After contrasting the treatment accorded by the House of Lords to the Education Bill of the late Government and the Plural Voting Bill, tho right hon. gentleman went on to claim that the latter measure had had the hearty approval of the vast bulk of the electors at the General Election, and that the principles of the BIll had been before ( the country for 20 year, Coiiiinuu g, fie saic' that with uncon- scious iron j this noble Earl in the framing of hib resolution professed to deplore the post- ponement of socal etorm, Was there ever a clearer case of putting the cart before the horse ? In what Quarter was social reform really blocLeJ Every proposal of social reform which Interfered with the vested interests of soma class had in the course of its progress to ba diluted and doctored to suit the purpose of the Assembly which Re- garded the safeguarding of vested interests as one of its supreme trusts. (Ministerial cheers., A minority of the House of Commons fresh frojj the rebuff at the polls was able by the aid and agency of the House oflords to control anti even dictate tho legislation of the country. Whatever the Liberal Government did they were either checkmated or stalemated. They played under conditions under which they could never win tho game. It was the deliberate opinion of the Govammcut that the present state of things 'as a caricature and a mockery of representative government, and they were determ ned. with the assent, as they believed. of their fellow countryracn, to provide for it as soon as might be au effectual remedy. (Pro- longed Mihsterai cheers.) Mr MASTERMAN said be would support an immediate forward and drastic movement in connection with the House of Lords, moro especially because he did not believe that they could look lor any treatment from them in the future other than they had received in the past (Ministerial cheers ) Mr FEN WICK characterised the amendment tS a deliberate and wilful waste of time- hollow sham and a fraud. The Government, be said would make greater progress with their .ocia: legislation if they could come to a clear and definiie understanding as to what was to be the real relationship existing between the two Houses. (Ministerial cheers.) Mr ARTHUR HENDERSON said the Labour party were prepared to trust the i Government "a little; longer in order to see whether they were any better at fulfilling luetr premi ses of social reform than their p1 ede- cesjors. Every number of the Labour party I was a Home Kuler .and they therefore welcomed the indications contained iu the King's speech, sunt in the speeches uf the Prime Minister and Mr Birrell that a measure was to be introduced dealing- with Irish local government. The Issue iri regard to the House of Lords had been forced npon the Government, and he hoped the bat fie once beglin would be carriea right through (Ministerial cheers.) Mr F. E. SMITH said the Prime Minister said. 1, A way must be found for dealing with the House of liOrds (Ministerial cheers ) That showed that he had no idea how it was to be done. (Opposition cheers.) The Prime Minister's remarks reminded him of King Henry's ejaculation in regard to Be--ket. Is there none of the rogues who eat 01 my bread that will rid me of this turbulent house ?' (Laughter.) Volunteers were nst lacking in fespodsa to this appeal, but they all advanced xtiametricallv different methods of dealiug with tho problem, and iu their attempts to solve it the Liberal party were making themselves a toughing stock1 in the eyes of the country. NOppo»iticm cheer*.) Mr Balfour Raises Laughter. Mr BALFO U tt, who was received with Oppc sition cheers, entirely agreed with the Chan- cellor of the Exchequer, that nobody knetr what the plan of the Government was for deaW init with he House, 01 Lords, and he did not believe the Government itseii knew. His con- viction was that the Government were hardened by an Aut.jnn Session and other heavy duties, -%ud had not yet decided in what form to attack the ancient constitution of this country. Still he was justified in saying they could not enter into a great struggle of that, kind w, thout open ing the floodgate-, of political controversy, which must overwhelm very nunor question of social reform. (Opposition cheers.) Tho reasons advanced for the attack were of tbo thinuest and most jejune eiktracter. What, waa the double crime of the House of Lordsi last yoar ? That they passed the Trades Dis- putes Bill and they modified tho Education Biii- (Loud Ministerial iaughter.) The House of Lords recognised that there was a majority in favour of the Trades Disputes Bill, and that was an arguinent which rightly influenced them. He did not d spute that the Education Bill was altered to such a form that the present Government could Dot pass it. but the modifi- ed ¡orn. were not of a character which would ba.ve made the Bill unsat isfactory even t.o the great mass of the party support- ing the Government. (Minisierial laughter.) He refused to believe that they desired to up- root an institution more ancient than that House it,,elf-an ill,-titut.iorp which had borne its part without, discreut or dishonour in the II history of this country, and whose debates had been adorned by eloquence and by a tine political instinct. (10.1 d Ministerial ironical I cheers)-—of what was required or what was not required by the growing itistitut-ions of the i cou try- (Opposition cheers.) Sure.y no man in that- Assembly was going to write himself down snch au ass as not to recognise the great and honourable part played by the House of Lords If that were so. they were going to destroy an institution that, kind because, for- sooth, with regard to one measure that refers to education they had altered it in order to give parents greater control over the education of their children whila remedying all the grievances al eged against the Act of 1870. The thing was absurd. (Ministerial cheers and counter Opposition cheers.) If they destroyed the power of the House of Lords to pioase a majority of the House of t onaoaons. which might have been produced in a moment of transitory excitement, what sub- stitniv were they going to have? Were they gouty io leave it to a Ministry, who were tba creatuws of the majority ci the House to dei roy sv)th a stroke of the pen and without. adequate debase the very foundation ot the institutions under which the country had lived < and flourished (Opposition cheers.) They j bad only to state the problem to see that it seethed with difficulties of a gigantic character (Renewed Opposition cheers.) This great ques- tion was only overshadowed by ono other, the question of Horne Rule. (Opposition cheers. ) Mr Balfour declared that neither by convers2 tion. nor by suggestion, nor by assertion had 1 e directly or inditictly to anybody or in an y place favoured devolution. (Opposition cheers.) t Mr BirtsIPs Retort. Mr BTRRFLL, who was greeted by MSnit;- teriahists with a storm of cheering, said he was not surprised to find that Ihe leader of the Opposition was po-sensed with the notion that the Uouse of Lords had a, fine political instinct, (Ministerial laughter.) Where would he. the right hon. gentleman, he without the other place ? (Renewed and The right hon gentleman a little more than a year ago had seemed ti have everything on his side. hut he had committed the one error of sitting where he was too long !-at though he was now the leadei only of a small and disunited party he nevertheless wielded great power, and iast. Session had been able to exercise a commanding influence over the fortunes of the Education Bill. The House of Lordb had become a sort of pockev. borough. Just as in the House of Commons in tbc reigns of the Georges there had been representatives of pocket boroughs known as K.'tig'. own, so the Tory party now had their pocket, boroughs in another place. ile believed that the people of this country would argue this < fiie:saon of the relationship between the two Houses as a matter of fair piny. Everybody knew that the House of I Lords L,d ccased to play ihe part of an in- telligent Second Chamber—(Ministerial cheers) —and that it only excarased its critical and disagreeable iunciicou when a Liberal Govern- ment was in power. He (Mr Birrell) believed the country was alive io fiso tiiate of the case, and that ill would honesty and justly require some arrangement to be made which would adjust the p wcr of the two Houses a little- more fairly in a way which would secure, if possible, the real value of a. critical assembly t The demand advanced that a General Election should follow every reform put forward by the i Liberal party meant that. when Liberals were in office there would be annual Parliaments, j and wheD tho Conservatives were in office | septennial Paifiaments. They naturally j septennial Pai tiai-nents. They naturally, objected to a method which impaired the utility | of the Liberal party,and he believed the country i desired to sec the scales held evenly between 1 the two parties. i The House then divided, there voting- } For the amendment Ill Against 374 Government majority. 263

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