Welsh Newspapers

Search 15 million Welsh newspaper articles

Hide Articles List

24 articles on this Page

'oJ,.J,.'--,-South Wales Coal…

News
Cite
Share

'oJ ,.J,. South Wales Coal Trade. .-n ,> t. • t^|E sliding SCALE. -2 Miners' Delegates in Conference at .J Cardiff. Mr W. Abraham. presided over a general '-oni'erence of delegates of all collieries connected ..jitixthe Sliding Scale Association at the Cory receive the report of Scale representatives with regard to •h^ir negQtiations with the employers' represen- tatives re the revision of the Sliding Scale Agree- len.t." \Tybon-, tn his opening remarks, expressed the iiope that discretion would be observed through- jut the discussion, and that no cleavage of a'iendsiupd would result from the differences itatsAi They would remember that when the men last met they agreed upon the following resolu- f r 'ffhkt this conference instructs our represen- tatives to open negotiations with the employers jvth a view of improving the Sliding Scale Agree- ment a3 circumstances mav warrant between |jiis and the end of March/but especially to en- deavour to secure either a dovetailing of a scheme or the control of the output of corul or a minimum r.hicii will retail* wafc-eg on a fair and equitable jaÚs, and further that the whole of the clauses be Revised." AxrtrhicpttvioJT' that, after a very careful discus- WtMF vftrfbds points offering themselves cy decrded to a"sk for a few improvements Vnich they thought were essentially necessary. They thought it would be unwise to create any 'xritatioii between themselves and the em- .1oy. straight tot.. the point, to seek whaflEfci benefit the employers as well as the men and ijie whole., colliery com- Biuuitjiai laxge. WHAT THE <foVe!d"il £ hg of the control of output scheme itB~tIic~Sl TJ in « Scale, 01' failing that a minimum, two means were pntforwanl for arriving at what 3ie men were aiming at. They felt that if they Had a direct third uartv-and to ask r party to be always tvoukl probably be more than the men ft., '1); c-; ihougbt they had any hopes of obtain- ing. T.i j question was therefore placed in this •ay 3"%Xlaa»meii were prepared that when differ- Jpces appeared, the Hoard, of Trade should ^ominatq,g,gpntlew&n justified to decide upon i*ie differences. The men also asked for a re- roodelling of the clauses, so that they should bear ijjit exactly the meaning given to them by both sjnployers and workmen. I A CBITiCtSil OF THE OFFICIAL Jt £ POB,T. ae must say this, with ail due respect to the iend who drew up the ultimate official report of ifee joint meeting, that that report did not err on we side-of justice to the wùrlimen's representa- rives. It put before the public that the employers lceri their various proposals hefore the men's ^preventatives, that these were discussed and so but it did not appear that the fen's representatives had any reply to j|ve to those proposals. Without Being it any way egotistical, they claimed to have liven a > )lL.U;> AX3WER TO SVERY POIXT J.1at placed bofore them. For instance, it as declared thai coal was produced in America .t 3 per ton, but they discovered that the average oat per ton was no less than 4s 9d. It was also tiate}d that in Northumberland and Durham the rifet" df jpfeduSfiori' Of coal was Is 4d less <h&n in South Wales, but they found that the South Wales employers received about 2s 9d noro than did the coalowners of the North. It fed bfew alleged that the workmen's represen- tee's' had gone beyond their powers; that they /iact given way upon this point and upon that. For instance, there was the speech of Alderman Fleury Eowen. All this had a tendency to iivide the workmen at a critical time. Then ltey had a Note oÏ V/arning," the twr&ei- ofv wtBchf.- if fee- knew, as he jAfeigheted" "to* "dor all that transpired at the gliding Scale Committee, was guilty of a deliberate falsehood. (Hear, hear.) The writer sf that w Note of Warning," declared that the r-WfcktofcfA fcpreeentatives did not want to have tf&'&f&Sfff" "No'ioan from Gain downward had svec a more 'M DELIBERATE FALSEHOOD han that., ^Applause.) Negotiations with the .mployers had been suspended because the employers could not see their way o dovetail into the Scale agreeement scheme for controlling the output of coal., He was afraid that the employers were not the "present moment in a temper to agree to. a control of output. It bad been asserted over wftS'Over again that there were 30 per cent, of the employers willing to put in force such a scheme, bdf it had transpired that only 50 per ::eÍ1t: were willing to agree to a scheme without such a variety of conditions attached to it as to make the scheme impracticable. For ixample, one firm said, We will join if Messrs So-and-So (another firm of colliery owners) will join." • 'LEAKERS 'CRITICISED. A Monmouthshire Delegate was prepared •O. move that the proposals of the meta's leaders be rejected. The men's representatives were empowered to appear before the masters with a view of reform- ing the Scales but practically—without the know- ledge o^'the men—the leaders said they would sign the old Scale for 35 years. The men gave the leaders plenary powers to reform the Scale t'ctflP'W five months ago, and to have given a pl&lge'to the employers on the lines outlined was iD excess of the powers given to the men. He therefore moved that the v proposals of the leaders be rejected. Mabon explained that 110 proposals had been B&fe. Alderman D. Morgan said it was very import- ant that the meeting should understand what had baen done by their representatives. There was a.n impression that the men's leaders were willing to'suggest the modifications in the audit and the change of Mabon's Day unconditionally but the suggestion was made on the condition that the control of the output scheme should be pat in the agreement, and that was done on the understanding that it should be recommended to this conference. It has been alleged that they were prepared to recommend to the meeting a worse position than that held at present. If the control of the output scheme was conceded, he asked them if it would not benefit their position 10 or 15 per cent all round for 30 7ears.| Were they not, on that condition, prepaied to accept the modifications ? It was ptlfeiy a proposal on such lines as these If yon give us these good things we are prepared to grant yoti others in return." A Delegate said he was empowered by his dis) trict to move that, as to the discharge note, the employers be not given a hearing. Mason said it was much too early to submit resolutions. The CHAiRMAX, replying to certain criticisms, pointed out that ail the suggestions of the work- men's representatives to the employers as to what they would, accept were based upon the condition precedent, that a control of output eeljeine. was dovetailed into the Sliding Scale agreement. Failing that, their proposed modi- fications were withdrawn. Mr Henry Davies (Aberaman) argued that the basis of the Scale was far too low. It ought to be from 15 to 20 per cent. higher to enable the men iofairly live, When the Scale came down to about 10 or 11 per cent. there were always disturbances amongst the workmen. At the time of the hauliers' strike the Scale was down to 10 percent. It had been said that legislation in the past 10 years had considerably raised the cost of production. It was the duty of the workmen's representatives to see that this increased cost did aQÎ; come out of wages, but out of profits. Mr Davies (B-iaonavonV said it had been proved that the South Wales coalowners got Is Id per ton more for their coal than did the Northumber- land and Durham employers. He should like to snow who got this Is Id. Certainly not the workmen of South Wales, who got much lower 7/ages than the workmen in the orth country. :Sfr Tom RICHARDS said the position as he voderetood it was this:—The men asked for certain improvements, which were rejected. The master* then made proposals, which it was sug- gested should be accepted upon certain modifica- cations; but the output scheme had been refused, £.u.rt the. rccozumendations therefore disappeared. MrD. Morgan- (Rhondda; concurred with there- marks of the previous speaker, but maintained that the audit for the term should take place before rjegotiatioiis were resumed. In 1890, when the rne took advilintage of the position the offered and .threatened the employers with an agitation tQive notice, they (the employers refused to do anything with the recommenda) it)ns unless the notices were withdrawn. He conten ded that the auditor shOlùd go on with his work and realise the prices of coal for the past iv,) months. He took his stand there. (Applause. He believed in an independent chairman on all n when disputes occurred between the pa £ ti £ S pujihe committee. (Applause.) He was convinced that there was more in this proposal than appeared on the surface. (Applause.) Mr Henry Davies (Aberaman) believed that the itwdit sbonld be made a condition of the resump- Met of-negotiations. A Delegate moved that all the proposals put loiwtud by the owners be rejected. This-was seconded. MABWS did not believe in making the question a -test. It was a side issue against which tha^-shnuld safeguard. He wanted to come to part of the position, and his opinion was thi-s, that the dovetailing of the output scheme with the Scale was soHngbluag which at present they were not going to get. The men's leaders had made a strenuous, honest effort on this point. They had made it a sine qua '(OTkjjy^xhron^h. No, body of represen- tatives had'T§5xTe 'a more strenuous effort for a particular joint than the men's leaders had made for"this. But they bad failed They had ^ISceived a distinct "No." The lunnioycrs saM it was impracticable, not that n. was nndesiraWe, but they declared that it could not enter into tfte'agreement. That being his opinion, wh. to bo done ? As to the question •)i audit, he-- did not consider it worth while laaxrellins' also?.It was in view—if '_k an agreement was come to—that it should be made conditional upon a certain advance being conceded. He would have them know, however, that he was a firm believer in a scheme for con- trolling the output. The motion—that all the proposals of the owners be rejected—was then put to the meeting and carried. An adjournment was now made for luncheon. AFTERNOON PROCEEDINGS. THE ADMISSION OF THE PRESS. On the reassembling of the delegates after luncheon the CHAIRMAN said they had made an important mistake in admitting the Press. He felt that delegates had not heard what thej ought to have heard from the men who were fighting their battle because of the presence of reporters. Their representatives did not care to give away their case before resuming negotiations. A Delegate proposed that the reporters be asked to retire for the rest of the day. This was seconded. Alderman David Morgan declared that he had nothing to keep back, and he would n be ashamed to say in the presence of the Press I what he would say in the absence of reporters. After a discussion the Chairman said it was not worth while to press the motion for the exclusion of the Press. The mover protested, but the proceedings were continued with reporters in attendance. SCALE OR NO SCALE ? The CHAIRMAN brought the meeting back to the question at issue—Was the Sliding Scale to be the regulator of this coalfield in future ? A* Delegate remarked that if a better Scale than the one now in force was unattainable they had better be without a Scale at all. The Scale had failed, and it was for the men to show the employers that they would not be slaves any longer. A Delegate said he believed that their repre- sentatives had some sort of alternative scheme to submit to the conference; and it was only right that the men should look to their leaders for light and leading. Mr EDWARDS (Dowlais) said it was now for the leaders of the men to say whether they coold foreshadow a better Scale than the one which had been in iorce. At Dowlais the men were not prepared to give their representatives plenary powers unless the leaders coold hold out any hope of formulating a superior Scale than the one now proposed to be abandoned. Alderman DAVID MORGAN remarked there was no certainty that the hoppes of all the leaders would be identical. Mr Edwards might be answered with the reply that the leaders had not agreed to put any scheme before them or were at one in the hopes they cherished. What the leaders had to say wa.s that the men's representa- tives made certain propositions which the employers refused and then proposed others, which they (the men's leaders) were willing to recommend to the conference, with certain modifications, provided the employers conceded the scheme. The employers refused, but they didn't say they would not meet the men after this conference. I Mr EDWAKDS repeated that unless their leadera could guarantee a better Scale, the men could not give them plenary powers. Alderman DAVID MORGAN Your representa- tives have not yet asked for plenary powers. We have met you here in order to see what is best to be done. A Delegate proposed That, having given six months' notice to terminate the, present agreement, we accept no Scale whatever that is 'I not better than the present one that we adhere to a monthly holiday as now kept; and that we give our employers no hearing as to the Discharge Note." This was not seconded. Several delegates declared that their mandate from their constituents was to mend or end the Scale, to demand a Scale of 10 per cent. on the shilling, and the dovetailing of the output control scheme with a minimum wage. A 10 PER CENT. BASIS. A Plymouth Delegate submitted the following resolution of his colliery That this meeting of Plymouth workmen, after learning of the employers' proposals, objects in the strongest possible terms to such unjust and drastic pro- posals. and asks our representatives on the Scale to use every means to get an agreement on a 10 per cent. basis, failing this no agreement to bs made. Mr DAVIES (Aberaman) proposed that the secretary be instructed to convey the effect of tho morning's resolution to the employers. He did not see why the proceedings of the confer- ence should be continued after passing a resolu- tion rejecting the whole of the employers' proposals. It was for the employers to submit fresh proposals if they wanted to renew the Scale. Mr WOODWABO (Cross Keys) appealed to the chairman to say whether in his opinion they were justified in asking for 10 per cent. A Delegate asked for the opinion of their re- presentatives. If the latter wished to be their leaders let them lead and give the benefit of their light and leading. (Applause.) Alderman D. MOBGAN said that as one of the leaders he did not wish to shirk the responsi- bility of taking the lead; but as leaders they did not wish to create an impression that they wished to lead the men by the nose. They wanted the men to take part in the dis- cussion and to take some of tbe onus in the work .of a settlement. The question at stake was Should there be a scheme of control of output in South Wales or not ? and also should there be an umpire or independent chairman ? The establish- ment of a scheme would mean an increase of 10 or 15 per cent, in the men's wages, which would continue hereafter. The employers said they would not have the scheme, but the leaders of the men did not believe the scheme proposed would be detrimental to the employers. It was to be remembered also that the discussion might— which God forbid—result in a general strike in South Wales. The conference was of supreme importance, therefore, and he asked them to be patient in their deliberations. THE COALOWNERS WAR CHEST. Replying to Mr Woodward's question, Mr T. RICH.\EDS (Beaufort) said he believed they were fully justified in asking for 10 per cent., but the employers said "No." The fact was they were justified in asking just as much as they were likely to get in the state of their organisation. (Hear, hear.) As the agent of a. certain section of Monmouthshire miners, he was prepared to tell his constituents that unless the employers were prepared to give the control of the output scheme a trial they should fight them, but as a member of the Sliding Scale Committee he represented districts that had not a spark of organisation, and he was not prepared to tell those men to risk coming to an issue with their employers. If the workmen were well organised in the coal- field he would say fight the employers, even if it was for nothing else than to reduce the fund at the Coalowners' Association. It was time that that fund was reduced. Year after year the owners were accumulating their money by thousands of pounds The absence of a Scale would doubtless mean trouble to the workmen to protect their rates, but it would also entail trouble on the employers. HOW THE SCALE SHOULD BE RECONSTRUCTED. Mr WOODwABO proposed—li That it be an instruction to approach the employers with a view to reconstruct the Sliding Scale with the following amendments 10 per cent. in the shil- ling, with a minimum selling price of 10s, an independent chairman, and a two months'audit." DISORGANISATION AND WEAKNESS. Mr W. BRACE said he had long made up his mind that when they amended the Sliding Scale they would have to amend it as a. disorganised coalfield. They would never be able to get their men by disorganisation to that fighting pitch which would enable them with confidence to attack the employers. They must work with the material at their disposal. Give him a minimum or a control of output scheme, and his quarrel with the Sliding Scale was ended, but he protested against the colliers being exploited by competing merchants on the market. He did not want a minimum fixed at a point which would make the coal trade unremunerative to the employers and colliery shareholders and encourage successful competition; but he con. tended that 10s or 10s 6d minimum could not possibly do this. The conference, Mr Brace went on to say, had no power to make any amendment of the general principles upon which the ballot was taken for termina.ting the Scale agrecment- The workmen should now be again ballotted as to whether they would renew the Scale in the absence of non-concession of the men's demands by the employers. Mr ALFRED OTIONS remarked that usually the leaders formulated a policy for submission to the men. That, however, was not the position to- day. Each of the leaders acted on his own responsibility. He preferred the alterna- tive method of the representatives offer. ing a policy to the men. Ho wished to state at the outset that it was not a question of continuing an agitation, as stated by Mr Brace. The latter said he would continue the agita- tion until tne scheme for controlling the output was incorporated in the scheme. That was not exactly the position at the present time. It was not a question of agitation, it was much more serious. It was a question of making up their minds to fight for the scheme or of abandoning it for some time. It waa evident from what had been said that the conference was not prepared to sanction the continuance of operations on existing terms. The conference did not desire to go on with the Scale, bnt whether this opinion properly and accurately reflected the opinion of the men could only be gauged by a ballot at the collieries. For himself, he was not prepared to advise a disorganised body of men to take up a, fighting position at the present time. This would not be accepted as part and parcel of a popular speech. But they did not always require popular speeches. Mncb bad been made- of a rising market. No doubt that was true. The market was in a state of boom. But whether this improvement would be permanent he could not say. In Durham the condition of the trade was slack to a degree, not- withstanding the fact that it was a, competing county. They should carefully consider, there- fore, whether the indications prevailing pointed towards a permanent improvement. A Voice Durham is too far away. Mr ONIONS replied that he knew he was not making a popular speech, but they wanted men who had the moral courage to speak their true minds. Mr BRACE Don't we all do that ? Mr ONIONS I was not alluding to you, Mr Brace. The remark was made in reference to the interruption that Durham was too far away. Continuing, Mr Onions said he regretted the Pressmen were present. He did not care to place their case in the employers, hands before an opportunity was given to the leaders to return to the masters with the alternative proposition, but rather than say nothing at all he would speak out his mind and take all the risks. He agreed with Mr Brace that we had developed our foreign trade, and had more than maintained our posi- tion. But the employers said, If you adopt a control of output scheme and fix fic- titious prices on the commodity. the development will cease." That briefly, was the reply the emnloyers made. He could not take the responsibility of advising them to assume a. position that would mean fighting. They had not arrived at the time when the question of that position came forward for discussion. The opinion of the men would first of all have to be obtained by means of the ballot. He agreed with the chairman and Mr Richards that the employers would not grant a control of the output scheme, or a 10 per cent. minimum unjess the men forced their hands. He unhesitatingly stated that the present condition of trade warranted them in asking for an advance in wages. It was, howsver, desirable that the ground should be cleared. They had to ascertain what the posi tion was, and having ascertained it, they would have to formulate their policy. Shortly after this the conference was adjourned. REPRESENTATION. It was announced that 112 delegates were in attendance, representing 63,661 workmen over 16 years of age. MEN TO BE AGAIN CONSULTED. The conference adjourned from Saturday of workmen's delegates from the several collieries of South Wales and Monmoutha^se, convened to consider the present negotiationstor the revision of the Sliding Scale agreement, was continued on Monday at the Cory Memorial Hall, Cardiff, under the presidency of Mr W. Abraham, M.P. (Mabon). Other leaders present included Messrs D. Morgan, W. Brace, Alfred Onions, D. Beynon, Daronwy Isaac, T. Richards, J. Davies, D. Morgan (anthracite), Lewis Miles, J. Thomas, Evan Thomas, &c., and the attendance of delegates was numerous. It will be remembered that on Saturday the conference unanimously rejected the proposals of the employers and proceeded to discuss the terms upon which the workmen would consent to a renewal of the agreement. No decision, however, had been arrived at when the proceed; ings were adjourned. This morning there was a brisk debate as to whether the Press should again be admitted, and eventually a motion to exclude was carried by a small majority, the figures being :—For admitting the Press, 45; for excluding, 52. A committee, consisting of Messrs Henry Dalies, D. Morgan, and J. Evans, were appointed to draft an official report. Soon afterwards the discussion was resumed, a resolution to the following effect being submitted on behalf of the Ebbw Vale workmen :— That this conference hears with astonishment that the employers have refused to adopt the control of output scheme, seeing the many admissions made by them that such a scheme was practicable and desirable for the prevention of undue local competi- tion, thereby protecting prices and wages. It is here- by therefore resolved that onr representatives on the Sliding Scale inform the employers' representatives that we cannot accept any Sliding Scale arrange- ment giviaj less than 10 per cent. in tiie shillins upon the present standard. We also regret to hear that our employers suspended the auditors before the termination of the present agreement. This compels us to instruct our representatives to ask for a 5 per cent. advance in wages to drote from the date of the audit, had it been taken, viz., the 1st of April. It is also Desolved that this conference stands adjourned until the 23rd of March to await the reply of the employers. Several other resolutions were proposed, but up to the adjournment for dinner the discussion turned mainly upon the one given above Mr DAVID MORGA;, Aberdare, in a trenchant speech, declared that his advice to the men was this, and he wished it to go forth through the Press '■ No scheme, no Scales if they had.no scheme, no umpire, no control of output, then-no Scale." (Cheers.) In his opinion the employers never intended that their proposals should be accepted by the men. The employers had more tlian sufficient in their pockets now from the 1879 standard rates to cover any increased cost entailed upon them by the Workmen's Compensation Act. For instance, the rate paid per ton for small coal I under the 1879 standard was very low indeed. Now it was 2s 6d per ton, and there had been an advance in prices of about 150 per cent. on that. Railway rates were another instance. He main- tained that all future disputes in South Wales should be settled by an umpire appointed by the Board of Trade. He would rather that the men should strike than that they should accept the present proposals of the employers. The men were in quite as good a position now to fight as they were in 1875. This crisis he hoped would force the legislature to compel employers to accept aibitra- tion in all cases of dispute. The control of out- put scheme properly worked out would do im- mense good, but it should not be accepted unless labour was given representation upon the Control of Output Committee, so as to prevent any double dealing with the men. Providence wa3 now fighting with them, and were they as workmen going to fight against Providence ? They had had plenty of strikes in Aberdare of late, and Sir Wm. Thos. Lewis would no doubt like to see him (the speaker) in prison, and was undoubtedly praying for that to come to pass. Mr EVAN THOMAS (Rhymney) said that in his opinion they should as men concentrate their efforts upon securing a minimum to the Scale. Their fault in the past had been to spread their efforts in too many direc- tions, and they never gained anything They should not on any account agree to revive the agreement now expiring without obtaining certain amendments. Were they pre. pared to do that ? (A Voice No.) He (the speaker) heartily re-echoed that" No." Mr T. RICHARDS supported the resolution. As the employers had refused the terms submitted to them, he would certainly advise the workmen to demand 10 per cent. on the shilling. Mr W. BRACK agreed. He was strongly in favour of the establishment of a minimum. A New Tredegar Delegate declared they should also adhere to the demands made by previous conferences—viz., the appointment of an umpire and the admission of the Press into the Joint Committee meetings. Mr JOHN THOMAS (Garw) supported the resolu- tion. Mr PRICE (Ebbw Vale) thought it was a mis- take to give notice unless they were determined to stick to the demands they put forward. Mr GARDNER (Abertillery) spoke of the poverty of the people and their inability to stand a strike or a struggle in the present state of things. In Abertillery many miners were sending their children to beg from door to door, though wages in that district were equivalent to what they were I in other parts of South Wales. The conference then adjourned. In the afternoon a large number of propositions were submitted. Mabon. M.P., spoke strongly in favour of renew- ing the present Sliding Scale rather than have no scale at all, while another influential delegate feared there were no hopes of obtaining better terms than were given them under the present agreement. The idea of renewing the present Scale with- out amendments was, however, strongly opposed by a large number of delegates, and a proposition to vest the workmen's representatives with plenary powers to settle was warmly debated. During the discussion it was found that a large majority of the delegates present had not received the consent of their collieries to grant the Sliding Scale members such plenary powers. Ultimately it was moved:— That this conference stands adjourned until Tuesday, March 22nd, to be held at St. John's Hall, Cardiff; that the delegates at this meet- ing return to their constituents and place the matters before them, with the view of obtaining their consent to grant the workmen's representative on the Sliding Scale Joint Committee plenatv powers to effect a settlement of the matters in dispute." To this an amendment was moved:—" That wo now proceed to discuss the granting of plenary powers," but upon a division the amendment was defeated, the motion being carried by 69 votes to 26.

.STRIKE ATCEFNGLASCOLLIERY

AN UNAVAILING APPEAL.

[No title]

SOUTH WALES PERMANENT FUND.

-----------ABERTILLERY DISTRICT…

-. -_----.--'--.---------A…

[No title]

Llanelly New Dock.f

-- -------_----UNREHEARSED…

----FATAL FIRE IN LONDON.

-..-.--! A CARDIFF CYCLE AGENT…

BALA COLLEGE^

Alleged Ill-treatment of a…

CAERPHILLY IMPERSONATION CASE.

--BIMETALLISM IN SOUTH WALES…

- DANGERS OF THE QUAY SIDE.

----A TRIVIAL DETAIL.

[No title]

----'-NG ILLEGAL BEER SElliNG…

DROWNEDTHRCUGH aTUPfl^j j…

A BRAKESMAN'S DEATH AT ; \…

[No title]

Advertising