Monmouthshire Merlin

MEETING OFTHE NEWPORT BOROUGH MAGISTRACY. THE MAGISTRATES CLERK—HOW SHALL BE BE PAID? A meeting of tha magistrates of the borough of New. port, convened by circular, was held in the committee room, Town Hall, on Monday, for the purpose of consi- dering a resolution passed by the Town Council, on the 13th ultimo, recommending that the magistrates' clerk be i j future paid by salary of X300 per annum in lieu of fees, as heretofore. In compliance with a written- application from the reporter of each local paper, the meeting was thrown open to the representatives of the press. The following gentlemen were in attendance James Brown, Esq., Mayor, in the chair Messrs. S. Homfray, G. Gething, W. Evans, R. F. Wool" lett, W. Jenkins, W. Williams, E. J. Phillips, C. Lyne, L. A. Homfray, and W. W. Morgan. The Mayor having read the minutes of the meetings which have been held during the last four weeks upon the question of the magistrates' clerk, and a copy of the circular convening the present meeting, proceeded to observe—We are now fully upon the business of the day. I have in the first pIa Je read to you the circular con- vening the present meeting; and if ever a man gave utterance to sincere feelings, I hope to be the man to do. so to-day. I do earnestly hope and trust that whatever may have taken place—however strongly party feeling may have waged-upon this vexatious question during the last seven years will be suffered to operate upon the mind of no one here present. We all know by experience, and as men of the world, that the longer these feelings are protracted the worse they become, and the worse evils they beget in our nature. I have come resolved to for- get all that has passed, and to sit down and calmly and deliberately to try if we cannot put our heads together and get rid of this question in a manner wurthy of our- selves and worthy of Englishmen. A meeting was neces- sary for the re-appointment of Mr. Fox. That meeting has been held, and the re-appointment was carried by a majority. I am not the man to dispute that. Let it go. Wh,.t I say is, that we have first of all to affirm a prin- ciple or to reject a principle, which principle is this :— that we shall no longer pay the clerk to the magistrates as heretofore by fees, but that the system adopted of pay- ment by salary be the one established here to-day. I will not take you over the ground I have traversed upon previous occasions to show why that conclusion should be arrived at, because I have great faith and confidence you have come here to establish that principle; but whether that be so or not, I am not going to recount what I have often laid down in public and private. I shall content myself with simply saying this--the more I see and read, and know and hear, of the principle of payment of magistra'es' clerks and public servants gene- rally, the more I am satisfied that the principle of pay- ment by fees is a reprehensible one, and the principle of payment by salary proper and just. I will not trouble you with further observations on that matter, but will now take my seat; and I shall b'1 happy to hear any observation any gentlcm m may have to make, simply remarking, that, as it strikes we, our Srst'business is to affirm the principle or otherwise, whether we pay by salary or fees her.after. Mr. Williams: I wish for information to ask one one question as to the application of any surplus. Sup- posing we decide upon paying our clerk by salary, will it be iegal to apply the surplus to the borough fuud ? The Mayor Y. a. Mr. Williams You are quite clear upon that point ? The Mayor Yes. Mr. Evans: It is under the same Act of Parliament we attempted to bring into operation seven or eight years ago. Mr, S. Homfray inquired how far the Act of Parlia- ment would interfere with the power of the magistrates. The Mayor read from the Municipal Act 14 and 15 Vic., c. 55, s. 9, bearing upon the question. The Mayor, in reply to a question, said the Act had been in operation about nine years. Mr. Jenkins: The word "Justices," upon which you laid so much stress, refers to justices of counties in rela- tion to clerks of peace; in boroughs the council takes the initiative. The Mayor assented. Mr. Jenkins said the difficulty presenting itself had always turned upon that pjint. The magistrates said— In the first place the recommendation to change payment by fees into payment by salary must come from the Town Council and if future circumstances should arise under which the magistrates may think the remu- neration is inadequate, we shail be porfectly powerless to effect an alteration unless the council see the matter in the same light." FNU_ Vrv„ (ISVP nnwpr tn dismiss vour clerk and appoint another. Mr. J. nkins But we are restricted to the same salary. The Mayor said it waa so. Still the council could nut go one way or another, without the magistrates. Mr. Jenkins And on the other haod, however strong the justices may feel, they are perfectly powerless to effect any altera:ion in the salary, unless the council see it in the sams light. Mr. Gething and Mr. Evans said that was the stumb- ling block. Mr. Evans continued He thought every Bench took the same view; for he was informed that with the ex- ception of Cardiff and Carlisle, the Act had not been applied. The Mayor referred to Guildford. Mr. Evans: I make the assertion distinctly and I do so upon the name and faith and character of Mr. Fox. If Mr. Fox has misled me, I think it due to him that he should have the opportunity of stating why he has mis- led me in this matter. The Mayor: In reply to that. I give you my authority —— Mr. S. Homfray and Mr. Evans expressed a wish that Mr. Fox should be called in. The Mayor- We can discuss it ourselves quite as well. I gave my statement upon the authority of the Mayor of Guildford, the Mayor of Gateshead, and the Mayor of Carlisle. They cannot pay by salary but under the power of this Act. Mr. Jenkins did not remember it had been stated that those towns were acting under the 14 and 15 Victoria. The Mayor was not aware that it was necessary in reply to a circular to go into all details. Mr. Evans again wished for Mr. Fox to be called in. He had certainly not gathered that the towns mentioned by the Mayor were acting under the Act of Parliament. At Guteshead, it was specially stated they paid by salaty under an arrangement'wirh the c'erk. Mr. Jenkins siid it must make one think there was some weakness about the Act, or it would have been more generally adopted. In reply to Mr. Evans, ThJ Mayor said it clerks to magistrates were not paid by feis under the 14th and 15th Victoria he did not know by what Act '.hey could be so paid. Mr. Junkies had never heard of any other Act of Parliaiiient. Tne Mayor It cannot be dene except under this Act. Mr. Jenkins Ii would be irregular, no doubt. Mr. Evans did not think much difference of opinion prevailed as to payment by salary. The principle had been admittel seven or eight years ago. The great ob- jection in the minds of the justices was that they would lose all control over thtir clerk—practically they would lose all control over their clerk, not being able to make any advance or diminution in the salary and, as he had stated, he was informed there was no instance in the kingdom, except Cardiff and Carlisle—he was in some doubt as to the latter—there was no pother instance in which the principle of this Act of Parliament had been applied. That was a strong argument in favour of his objection. The Mayor I give you my authority. The question is whether they act under this Act. Mr. Evans: Yes, that's it. The Mayor And my answer is there Is no other Act of Parliament. Mr. S. Homfray No doubt it would be illegal. Mr. L. A. Homfray: Cannot we do the same as at Gateshead, and agree with the clerk for so much, and pay the difference to the borough fund, without any inter. ference on the part of the Town Council ? j The Mayor My answer is we cannot do it legally. Mr. Homfray: You cannot do it legally, there is no question. But the question is whether it is not done by others. The Mayor should decline to be a party to any arrange- ment not sanctioned by an Act of Parliament. lMr. Jenkins remarked that for an Act of Parliament to have been in existence for nine or ten. years and not to have been acted upon, showed that there must be something objectionable. The Mayor said the matter had been carried out at Manchester and Birmingham. Mr. Evans At Birmingham it has been done under the charter. The Mayor hoped no gentleman would make an as- sertion he could not support by authority. He differed with Mr. E/ans. He knew it was the case at Liverpool. Mr. Evans had brought that objection forward before,and he (the Mayor) had ascertained they had a local act at Liverpool. He did not know as to Birmingham. Mr. Evam went upon the information of a friend of his, who had heard the statement upon credible authority while at Birmingham. lhe Mayor was not prepared to argue the question. But he knew there was a local act at Liverpool. Mr. Evan3 had taken great pains in this matter—no one indeed, was more anxious than he was to see the question settled—and h; hid felt that the provisions of the Act were highly objectionable. Mr. L. A. Homfray inquired whether there was not another bill being prepared by Government, to be brought forward next sessiolf ? The Mayor doubted whether the Government WJuld ( ttand another session. 'N Mr. Woollett: Did you not in your speech say there would be a bill brought forward The Mayor had stated upon the authority of the blue book that another measure might ba looked for. Mr. Lyne inquired, supposing the magistrates' clerk were paid by salary, and he left, from death or any other cause, in fixing the salary for a future clerk would it be necessary to obtain the sanction of the Town Council, or would the magistrates be able to allow the same salary as had been paid to the former clerk ? Sup- posing the salary were £10,000, if they liked, and the clerk left, and the Council said the magistrates should not, on making a re-appointment, give a salary ex- ceeding f50 ? Mr. Jenkins thought in the extreme case put by Mr. Lyne, the Council, taking the initiative, would have to obtain the sanction of the Secretary of State, and a cer- tificate of approval from the magistrates. After several observaiions, Mr. Gething said he thought they were entering upon legal points they could not comprehend, and suggested they should have the assistance of their clerk upon the matter. Mr. Evans thought the point should be cleared up as to wbether he were correct that the Act was not acted upon in other boroughs. If be were not correct it would alter his decision. If other boroughs did act under the 14 and 15 Vie. the provisions might not be so objectionable as he had imagined. Mr. Williams wished to know upon what data the assertion was founded ? Mr. L. A. Uomfray had understood precisely as had Mr. Evans—that there were only two boroughs. The Mayor would not contend the point. He had received replies that at certain towns payment was by salary. He took it for granted that as no other Act ex- isted by which it could be done, it was done under this Act. Mr. Homfray said no doubt Mr. Fox bad ascertained. In reply to a question why, if the magistrates were willing to go into the question under this Act in 1853, they should not be willing to go into it now. Mr. Evans said, as only himself and Mr. Woollett could reply, he would answer that; and his answer was that in 1853 hs did not so clearly understand the pro. visions and working of the Act as he did in 1861. He had not then given the attention to it he had subse- > quently done. Had he done so, be would not have been J willing to go into it. r Mr. Williams said Mr. Evans was in 1853 sufficiently well up in the Act to say Mr. Fox was entitled to le- muneration. Mr. Evans bad never said Mr. Fox was entitled to remuneration. He had contended that in fixing the salary regard should be had to his having held the office before. In so doing he had only followed the words of the Act. The Mayor thought the question to be considered was this—Shtsll we now affirm or otherwise the principal of payment by salary instead of fees? If they failed, and the majority were in favour of the system of fees rather than salary then the business of the day would at once be brought to an end. Mr. S. Homfray did not wish to see magistrates under the jurisdiction of another body, They ought to be perfectly free. Mr. Woollett considered that, so far as regarded affirming the principle, they might say the meeting was 11 unanimous. The Mayor would bring that point to an issue by moving as a resolution—" That it is inexpedient to further continue the system of payment of the clerk to the ju-tices of the borough by fees, and that his pay- ment on and after the 29th inst. be by salary." Mr. L. A. Homtray would like to be asked upon what authority Mr. Fox had stated that a bill would be brought on next session. Mr. Gething considered Mr. Fox should be had in. Mr. Jenkins thought the question was whether the towns paying by salary did so under 14 and 15 Vict. If Mr. Fox were right only one or two acted under it. Mr. Morgan could not understand why Mr. Fox should be the oracle of the meeting, Mr. Gething I said to illr. Fox-We shall have a meeting on the 9th, come prepared with all the informa- tion you can get. Mr. Morgan remarked the Fox was out at last, and complained that gentlemen had not acted in a more straightforward manner. He had no objection to Mr. Fox being admitted but it would have saved a vast amount of conversation if they had been as explicit at the beginning as at the last, and not have beat so much about the bust). The Mayor suggested the proper way would be for Mr. Gething and Mr. Evans to go and see Mr. Fox. Mr. Evans remarked he had had no conversation except that he had mentioned. Mr. Pnillips, in reply to Mr. 'Vfr.rojyi, would state that be had never had a word of conversation eimu -t, kf, Fox or anv other gentleman. Mr. Woollett expressed himself similarly. Mr. Evans had told them his objectionr and also that Mr. Fox had told him there were only two boroughs which paid by salary under the Act. He had not beat about the busta, and such an observation could not apply to him. The Mayor stated one thing—Mr. Fos Stated another. The Mayor had spoken upon the authority of the letters he had received. Mr. Evans If Mr. Fox has misled me he is very blameable. Mr. Fox was at this point invited into the room, and upon being seated, The Mayor addressed him Mr. Fox, Mr. Evans has stated that in no town in England is the principle of pay- ment by salary instead of fees adopted under the 14 and 15 Vic., but at Cardiff. Mr. Fox There is not. The Mayor: What means have you taken to ascertain that ? Mr. Fox If you will explain what you have written and the letters you have received, I will tell you what I have done. The Mayor: You have no right to come to this meet- ing to put questions to me or any other gentleman. You are our clerk, and we put certain questions to you. You having answered those questions it will be your duty to leave us to our deliberations. Mr. Fox I repeat there are none but Ctrdiff under the Act of Parliament. The Mayor Then I ask you have you taken means by inquiry and otherwise to inform yourself? Mr. Fox I have letters stating the facts with refer- ence to every single case brought forward by you. I have not writton to every borough in England, but I dare say you have. The M-iyor It is q-iite so. I have so written. Mr. Jenkins The dncussion before you entered the room was whether in any of the boroughs they were proceeding under the provisions of the Act 14 and 15 Victoria. Mr. Fox: They are not. I have made inquiry at every place mentioned by the Mayor. Of Carlisle I am unabie to speak positively; but from the letters,. I "ill venture to say they do not there proceed under the Act. But 1 tell you, in reference to the other places,, the Act is not applied. The Mayor Not at Newcastle ? Mr. Fox: No. In reply to a question, under what other provision magistrates could arrange to pay by salary, Mr. Fox said it was done in every case, with the ex- ception of Cardiff, by private arrangement, and it had been decided in a modern case by, he thought, Sir W. Page Wood, that such private arrangements were illegal, and rendered every case decided by the magistrates under such arrangement utterly illegal. He had no doubt that any one mi:ht upset every decision so given. Mr. Jenkins; It is decided that payment by salary cannot legally be made except under that Act ? Mr. Fox: You cannot do it. Mr. L. A. Homfray I understood from you that a bill was to be brought in next session to amend the pay- ment of clerks to justices? I Mr. Fox The statement of the Mayor is that an Act of Parliament is now being prepared by the Legislature, based upon the report of the Commissioners, from which he recently read at a Council meeting, which will have for its object the making it compulsory that all magis- trates' clerks shall be p&id by salary. You will find a provision in that Act probably to prevent surplus fees being carried to the borough fund. Mr. Morgan put one or two questions as to the proba- ble nature of the bill, when Mr. Fox referred him to the Mayor, who, no doubt, could give every information respecting the measure, as he doubtless knew by whom it was to be brought for- ward. The Mayor disclaimed all knowledge of any bill, and added he was not there to contend the question with Mr. Fox. Mr. Fox: I don't wish it. Were we to discuss it I should soon put you in the wrong. The Mayor: Well, I should be glad to meet you at the Town Hall. Mr. Fox I dare say you would. In reply toaquestiou, Mr. Fox said if they liked, they could apply the 14 and 15 Victoria. That Act was applicable. But there were about 350 petty sessional districts in England, and to his knowledge there was not a borough in which it was ap- plied except Cardiff and Merthyr. These towns formed no criterion for Newport, as at Cardiff there wasa'stipen- diary magistrate and Merthyr was not a municipal borough. Mr. Fox then alluded to the various towns which had been enumerated by the Mayor, where the clerk was stated to be paid by salary and not by fees, producing a number of letters he had received in answer to inquiiies made by him. The first that had been men- tioned by the Mayor (Mr. Fox remarked) was Bath. The Mayor: Bath I said was not settled. Mr. Fox: Stop moment, Sir, you said it was about to be, and it is uot about to be settled. The Mayor; I gave you my authority* Mr. Fox And I give you my authority. Mr. Fox then read the following — "Bath. "DEAR SIRS, -The present magistrates' clerk, Mr F. Falkner, succeeded on the retirement of Mr. George, about a year ago; "He is paid by the fees, which from various causes amount to a good sum, from X300 to E400 per annum. The question as to paying him by salary was brought before the Town Council at their last meeting, but was not disposed of, and I understand the borough magistrates were opposed to the plan. II E. C. PETGRAVE. Messrs. Prothero and Fox —Mr. Fox I was not content with that. I wrote to the clerk himself, and he says- Bath. DEAR SIR,—I am paid by fees, and not by salary. I am not subject to the expenses of providing forms or offices, but 1 provide my own clerks. I was appointed in February, 1860: my predecessor was also paid by fees I am, &c., F. FALKNER." The Mayor I did not give Bath as a case in point. Evans and Mr. Homfray: You said they were about to pay by salary. Mr. Fox then produced a letter from Warrington, to which town, he observed, Mr. Brown had referred in 1860. but not on the present occasion. The letter was as follows "Warrington. DEAR SIRS,- In reply to your letter of the 30th ult. I beg to say that although the present clerk to the borough justices here agreed to take the salary of £ 250-per annum, the Home Secretary has refused to sanction the arrange- ment until it is ascertained what the altered scale of fees now adopted produces. It is quite clear tnat the Home Secretary considers that the salary ought to approximate as closely as possible to the fees. This it the second year the present elerk has held the office. Yaurs truly, "JAMES NICHOLSON, "Messrs. Prothero and Fox Mr. Jenkins: Were they acting under the 14 and 15 Victoria ? Mr. Fox No. They bad a recommendation from the Council to apply the Act of Parliament, and the Home Secretary says—" No, I will not sanction it. Thesa- lary must be as near as possible the amount of the fees." I Mr. Lyne Do you know what the fees amounted to ? Mr Fox: I have not a notion. Mr. Fox continued I have had a reply from Beverley ——- The Mayor: I did not give Beverley as paid by salary. Mr. Fox No you did more. I will put you correct. You said the clerk was paid partly by fees, and partly by salary, which is equally untrue. Mr. Morgan thought that was not a fair way to put it. The Mayor: Never mind, let it go. Mr. Fox read the following letters Beverley. DEAR SIR,-In reply to your letter, I beg to acquaint you that the Clerk to the Justices for the Borough of Beverley is paid wholly by fees, and not by salary. 0 I am &c., GEORGE LEEMAN, Clerk of the Peace. Alsssrs. Prothero and Fox." Beverley. "DEAR SIR,-The Clerk to the Justices for this Borough is paid by fees but for those fees, which under Lord John Russell's Table he could have charged to the borough fund, he has agreed with the Town Council to accept X20 per aunuin in lieu of. We have a commission of the peace, but no stipendiary, or quarter sessions. Yours, &c., "THOMAS SHEPHERD. Charles B. Fox, Esq." —Mr. Fos I, gentlemen, do that work for nothing. The Mayor contended that the letters proved he was right—that the clerk was paid partly by salary aud partly by fees. Mr. Fox No. It is a payment of zC20 a year for what I do for nothing. The Mayor: Isn't payment a salary. Mr. Fox No. There is a great ditfLrence. In reply to a question as to what the duties alluded to were, Mr. Fox said: The work is this. Where the police bring up a person on a certain charge, and the cise is dismissed, and the person cannot pay fets, I receive none. I used to charge them, and am fairly entitled to charge them to the borough. Mr. Evans The magistrates said you must not charge them, and you have not done so. Mr. Fox read the following letter from Sunderland Sunderland. "DEAR SIRs,The Clerk to the Justices of the Borough of Sunderland is paid by fees, which he pockets, and accounts to no one, and not by salary. The fees, we believe, are full £ 650 or JETOO a-year. Yours, &c., "J. J. & G. W. WRIOHT. Messrs. Prothero & Fox." —Having read the above, Mr. Fox remarked that he had also written to inquire. what was the case with regard to Newcastle and Tynemouth, and had receive'd'the follow- ing reply :— Sunderland. DEAR SIR,—We have delayed writing to you in reply to your letter of the 9th instant, until we could obtain for you accurate information as to the position of the Clerk to the Borough Justices in all the boroughs in this loca- lity, which we could not do until to-day. "In Sunderland, as we before told you, the Clerk to the Borough Justices receives all the fees for his own use. In Newcastle, the Clerk to the Borongh Justices re- ceives a salary of £350, and accounts and pays over the balance of all the fees to the Justices, who place them to an account at the bankers, and pay out of it the expenses I attending the police office, give occasionally gratuities to reformatories, and accumulate the balance with the view to build a new police-office. This is all, of course, by pri- vate arrangement between the Clerk and the Justices, and not under the provisions of the seotions 9,11, and 12 of 14 and 15 Vic., c. 55. In Gateshead the Clerk is paid by salary, and the balance of fees paid to the borough fund, but this is by private arrangement also, and not under the provisions of the statute. At Tynemouth it is the same. At South Shields the Clerk receives all the fees for his own use, except that by private arrangement he has a fixed sum for all fees on business done for the corporation. The result of all this is, that in no case has the provi- sions of the statute been adopted. We are, &c "J. J. & G. W. WRIGHT. Messrs. Prothero and Fox." Sunderland. DEAR SIRS,—Tam Clerk to the Borough Justices, paid solely by fees but on niy appointment six years ago, a bargain was made that in accordance with the practice of the previous clerk, I should make no oharges for business done for the Corporation, such as are all the police charges, and in such cases if the parties go to prison without paying the fine inflicted, I lose my costs, but if they pay I of course get my usual costs. I make a charge of £10 per annnm for stationery, &c., and "keep and pay my own c'erks. The average of fees received by me, that is, gross fees, is something like B630 per annum, guessing roughly at it. 0 "I was appointed clerk in March, 1854. We have not a. stipendary magistrate; there was great, desire for one three or four years ago, but the feeling seems entirely to have abated: for the adjoining borough of Newcastle got one and seemed sick of it, and on his. removal to a better office two years ago, none other has'beea appointed. "la.m.&o., "Messrs Prothero and Fox. POTTS." Mr. Evans: And they are all by private arrange- ment ? The Mayor said he had given the statement with regard to Sunderland, as he took it from the Parlia- mentary return, which he could produce on the morrow. Mr. Fox then read the subjoined communication from Walsall Walsall. DEAR SIRS,—ID reply to your letter I beg to say that the Justices' Clerk, is still paid by fees, although the ques- tion of payment by salary has been mooted. 1 have myself held the office since 1834. I am, &c., "CHARLES F. DARWALL. Messrs. Prothero and Fox." Mr. Fox then observed that the Mayor's figures respecting Liverpool were not applicable to the magis- trates clerk but to the clerk of the peace, and read the following Liverpool. "DEAR SIRS,—The clerks to the justices here are ap- pointed by salary, and the surplus fees paid over in aid of the borough fund, under a local act passed long antecedent to the 14 and 15 Vic. c. 55. "Yours, &c. "PETER WRIGHT. "Messrs. Prothero and Fox." —Mr. Fox, referring to Bristol, said the arrangement in that city was under a private Act of Parliament, and gavo the substance of a communication he had received from Messrs. Price and Burgess. The following is a copy of the letter :— "Bristol. "DEAR SIRS,—Mr. Burges is town clerk of Bristol, and Mr. Brice, clerk to the oity justices. We receive a salary each of £1000 a year under the provisions of the local Act of Parliament. We are provided with offices, stationery, &c., and have an allowance for our clerks, which is barely adequate to their salaries and wages. All our fees and emoluments whether professional or otherwise are paid in full to the borough fund. The fees of the magistrates clerk's office average about £1600 or J61700 a year. We are, &o., BRIOE AND BURGES. Messrs. Prothero and Fox The Mayor defended his statement, which, ha said, he had received from the best authority. Mr. Fox: I state distinctly that the statements of the Mayor are entirely garbled. The Mayor, in reply to Mr. Fox's remark respecting Liverpool, said that in hi* fpeech at the Council he had stated, that the figures related to the Clerk of the ]?tam Mr. Fox And when you go below, and are referring to magistrates' clerks, you say the case of Liverpool has been given above. That remark made when you are referring to magistrates' clerks, distinctly implies that the case of the Liverpool magistrates' cderk was given above, which was not so. Mr. Fox then read the following communication :— Salford. DEAR SIRS,—Mr. Hulme having now relinquished the appointment of clerk to the borough j ustices here in my favour, I beg to say that I am paid by a salary of j6500 per annum, and I conduct all prosecutions arising in the borough, for which I am paid E2 2s. per day when at the assizes, and kl Is. per day when at sessions here. "All fees are received by an officer of the Corporation, and paid to the borough fund in aid of expenses, of salaries of Stipendiary Magistrate, myself, stationery, and ex- penses; see Stat. 17 and 18, Vie. c. 20, which relates exclusively to this jurisdiction, and will give you every information. Yours faithfully, "WILLIAM FOYSTER. Messrs. Frothero and Fox-" The Mayor Is there any other question to put to Mr. Fox ? There being no response Mr. Fox reared. Mr. Jenkins remarked that when an Act of Parlia- ment was in force for nine years by which magistrates' clerks might be paid by salary, and, although a number of boroughs were desirous of discontinu;ng the mode of payment by fees, not more than one or two boroughs availed themselves of the provision of the Act, it really did appear that there must be something very objection- able about it. Mr. Evans: They go further than that. They act illegally by making a private arrangement to pay by salary, rather than go by the Act of Parliiment. Mr, Jenkins: They won't avail themselves of the Act of Parliament. Without at all trying to lay down that the Act is objectionable, it makes one pause to find that it is not acted upon. Mr. Evans had prepared a resolution on the assumption that the statement made by the Mayor with regard to the proposed new Act of Parliament was correct- The Mayor I know no more than Mr. Fox told you. Mr..Evans said it was reported in the papers that the Mayor had stated there was an Act being prepared. The Mayor must correct the press; and if Mr. Evans, found that he was starting upon a wrong premiss, it would be for him to use his own discretion whether he pursued it. Ho (the Major) had simply made the statement made by Alderman Homfray two or three yeara ago—that a measure might be looked for. Mr. Evans having slightly altered his resolution so as to render it altogether independent of any statement that might have been made by the Mayor, then moved-" It appearing probable that an Act of Parliament will be passed in the ensuing session of Parliament settling the mode by which clerks to magistrates'- shall be paid— Resolved, that it is expedient to defer for the present the consideration of the resolution of the Town Council, dated the 13th August last, that the clerk to the justices of the borough be paid by a salary of J6300 per annum in lieu of fees." Mr. Woollett suggested the addition of the words— While the magistrates affirm the principle of payment by salary instead of fees." Mr. Williams: You do not affirm that, Mr. Phillips thought the magistrates were unanimous upon that point. Mr. Williams If so, I don't see why you should defer the question. Mr. S. Homfray explained that the question would be deferred because if they proceeded at present, they could only do so nnder the Act of Parliament. Mr. Morgan What is the objection to that Act ? Mr. Homfray: I should object to throw myself under that Act.. Mr. Lyne: Mr. Morgan asks what objection there is to that Act. I have not yet heard any objection to the Act, beyond this that other towns have not adopted it. I have heard no reason why they have not adopted it. Sou sav you do object to fees; and therefore the ques- tion is, whether it is better for you to keep on with a system of paying by fees, to which you say you object; or to take to an Act of Parliament, respecting the right or wrong of which you seem to know little or nothing. Mr. Homfray We know the Act of Parliament appeared to be so objectionable that nearly all parties who are acting, are doing an illegal thing to pay by salary rather thin go under the Act. I shall object to the Act. Mr. Ly ne Why ? Mr. Homfray Because I wig.h the -magistracy to be entirely unfettered. If you apply this Act, you throw yourself under the conir d of another party. Mr. Morgan thought there was some misapprehension among the magistrates as to the Towa Council over-riding them. Mr. Gething They want to do. Mr. Morgan said it was only an initiatory power the Co«^o5i p.waoaopil, to make a recommendation to the magistrates. The latter, after all, Had the operative power. He really could not see why the magistrates should be frightened at the Town Council. Mr. S. Homfray Who is frightened at the Council ? We are frightened at the Act of Parliament. Or.ce let that Act bo applieJ, and the magistrates are no longer free agen's. Mr. Morgan deprecated the indulgence of an antago- nistic spirit. The council Were not inferior to the ma- gistrates either as to position in life, or in education. Mr. Jenkins said Mr. Morgan had spoken as though the magistrates considered the Council inferior to I hem- selves. No doubt the Council was a respectable body. But the magistrates held that they themselves should have the exclusive control of their own clerk. It was as if a question was raised about the Town Clerk. In that case it would be absurd for the magistrates to interfere with the Town Council. And, though the Town Council might be far superior to the magistrates, they had no more right to interfere with the magistrates' clerk than the magistrates had to interfere with the Town Clerk. In the course of further discussion it was contended that if the Town Council paid the magistrates' clerk they would be subject to a continual pressure to pay the lowest sum for which a clerk could be obtained; while tne magistrates were subject to no such influence in the dis- charge of their duty, and their frat aud chief duty was to obtain an efficient officer. The Mayor remarked that it should be remembered that there were ei^ht magistrates upon the B iard, and that there were other gentlemen who were quite as sensible as were the inagistra e^j that the magistrates' clerk should be adl q uately paid and supported as a gentleman. He was no advocate for a clerk being paid as was the Merthyr clerk. Mr. Homfray said there was a barrister of some yeais standing oii tiie Bench at Merthyr, who could direct the cleik. Mr. Evans The magistrates' clerk there is merely a copying clerk. The Mayor When Mr. Fowler is absent, the clerk has to advise the Bench. A remark was made that it was not fair to say that the surplus of ,fees should not go to the boiough, when the borough paid for the police who detected crime. The conversation again turned to Mr. Evans's resolu- tion, and to the statement ui the papers, that the Mayor had asserted that an Act was being prepared by Govern- ment. The Mayor If such a statement has appeared in the public press I correct it. Mr. Evans: Of course if I have framed my resolution upon wrong data. I wiil'not put it. I have assumed the statements are correct. And it appears to me if an act is to be introduced next session to make it compulsory to pay by salary, it would be better to take that. Mr. Jenkins wished to see the Mayor's resolution. The Mayor. I proposed none. Mr. Woollett wished to have inserted in Mr. Evans's resolution that ttie magistrates affirmed the principle. Mr. Gething You had better leave it out. After some conversation in reference to the proceedings of 1853, Mr. Lyne remarked that Mr. Evans's resolution said neither yea nor nay, but shelved the question upon an indefinite Act of Parliament, which was only probable. Mr. Williams: Upon a contingency which miy never arise. Mr. Phillips suggested that an arrangement should be made to pay the clerk a salary,—to hold good during the interim between this and the passing of a new act. Mr. Gething If you do, it will be illegal. Mr. Phillips If we are satisfied it will be better to pay by salary than by fees, why should we not be guided by the acts of others ? Mr. Gething If others act illegally that is no reason why we should. The Mayor, replying to the argument that the act had nut been applied in other boroughs, remarked that if every other borough argued in the same way tue Act never would be adopted, because one borough would refuse to do so for the simple reason that another had not done it. Mr. Gething Then if we apply it, others will ? The Mayor 1 think they would. (Laughter.) After some further discus-ion, Mr. L. A. Homfray seconded the resolution. Mr. Jenkins remarked that the magistrates implied that they would subject themselves to any future Act of Parliament. The Mayor You would have no option but to bow to an Act of Parliament. Mr. Jenkins I mean if it was a workable Act that would be optional. The Mayor then moved as an amendment—" That it is inexpedient to further continue the system of pay- ment of the clerk to the justices of thisboroughbyfees, and that the payment on and after the 29„h instant, be by salary." Mr; Morgan had much pleasure in seconding the amendment. Mr., Jenkins And of course the mover and seconder ivean to say the Act is woikabld, The Mayor: I clo, Mr. Morgan said there seemed to be some mystified obstruction in the Act which nobody could explain. The amendment was then put, and Mr. Morgan having voted for, and Messrs. S. Homfray, Evans, Wollett and Jenkins against, Mr. Lyne said, if the clause and that the payment on and after the 29th inst. be by salary" was withdrawn he should support it, but not else. Several Voices That alters it altogether. Mr. Wollett: I should vote for that myself. I go so far. Mr. S. Homfray: You cannot alter the motion after it has been put to the meeting. Mr. Morgan It has not been put to the whole of the meeting. Mr. Homfray: So far that we have voted upon it. The Mayor (to Mr. S. Homfray): We have met here to do what is substantially right. I am sure you would be the last gentleman to raise a technical point. Mr. Horn tray Read it, and let us see. Mr. Evans claimed the same n.ht to withdraw his resolution. Mr. L. A. Homfray was open to a private arrangement. The Mayor It this resolution (Mr. Evans's) be passed, the subject is adjourned sine die; and I ask you is this a subject to be so adjourned ? Several gentlemen dlssented-lt would not be sine die. The Mayor: Is it to go on in perpetuity ? Mr. S. Homfray In perpetuity rather than under that Act. Mr. Evans suggested that the fees should be reduced. The Mayor Look at that report (the Commissioners) drawn up by the first men of the land, and see the opinion there given. Mr. Evans If that speaks so strongly, don't you think it probable a new measure will be introduced ? If the amendment be carried it will decidedly involve our act- ing under the existing Act of Parliament. After further conversation as to the regularity" of the proceeding, it was agreed to put the amendment without the final clause, upon the understanding that Air. Evans's resolution should be put as a substantive motion. Upon the "ote being taken there appeared- For the amendment-The Mayor Messrs. Woollett, Morgan, Lyne, Williams, and Phillips (6). Against.—Messrs. S. Homfray, Evans, Jenkins, L. A. Homfray, and Gething (5). • The amendment was accordingly carried, immediately upon which Mr. Evans erased his name as the mover from the reso- lution, remarking that he certainly could not move it, being, as he considered it, directly opposed to the one just carried. A warm discussion followed, as to whether the reso- lution should be put, The Mayor observing Are we met here as sensible men to settle this vexed question, or arc we to spend hours of time in the best part of the d iy merely to leave the whole case-to adjourn the thing sine die as this (the resolution) does, and arrive at notoing ? Mr. L. A. Homfray said they had arrived at little else. He was averse to payment by salary uuder the existing Act. The Mayor How will you do it ? Mr. Homfray By private arr ngement. The Mayor: What did Fox tell you ? Mr. IIomffay That it was illegal. But others do it. The Mayor I will do it the same as at Gateshead if you like. They have an understanding there that the salary be £ 150, and the surplus go to the borough fund. Mr. Evans Which is all illegal. Mr. Woollett moved, and Mr. L. A. Homfray se- conded Mr. Evans' resolution, with the introduction of the word "however" in the first sentence, making it real — It being probable, however, that an Act," &c., and with the addition, at the end, of the words—" under 14 and 15 Vic., c. 55." The Mayor contended that it would not ba regular to put the resolution. Mr. S. Homfray thought after what had taken place- putting resolutions to the vote, then after half the meeting had voted, withdrawing them, and putting them in an altered shape, it was out of the question to talk of what was regular." The Mayor: Remember others have to look at what we do. We shall be perfect fools if we put this resolu- tion after carrying the former one. Mr. Homfray And we shall look like fools bandying about th,) resolutions in the manner we have. It's a perfect farce. The Mayor You first affirm a principle that payment by fees should ceate, and than move a resolution that fees be continued. Mr. Jenkins considered the second resolution followed the first quite consistently. Tho one affirmed a principle, the second deferred its con^ideraiion. During subsequent conversation, Mr. Evans remarked that the Mayor knew quite well, that several gentlemen in voting for the affirmation of the principle did not iutenrl to place themselves under the existing Act. Mr. Woollett: When I voted for the amendment, I should beput Brown's promise that the re=olution 8botld be put. .Ilr. Gething (to tile li..Iyor) You distinctly promised It should be. The Mayor: The moment Mr. Evans saw this (the Mayor s motion) was carried by a majority he took his name from his resolution. I wU1 J %Q auth<). rity whether, an amendment having been put and carried, and the mover of the resolution having with- drawn his name before the resolution is put, such reso- lution can be put at all- M.r. S. Homfray Can you can give an instance where a motion, having been put to six out of eleven, has been taken back and altered, and then put again. Give me an instance of it in any meeting. The Mayor: Gentle-men, for God's sake don't let us ba diverting from the question, but let us come calmly and deliberately to the matter in hand, and see how we can reconcile this long-pending difficulty. It is a matter upon which every one feels a settlement ought to be come to. Don't let us go into a. discussion upon matters of this kind. I am sorry if in the heat of the moment I have been led into it. Mr. Ilomfray The better way is to destroy the refO- lution and. meet agoin. That is the best thing and the most regular. But I have no objecti a to the resolution; I only want to know what you are going to fotow it up by. Mr. Jenkins: Any persotn may take the words of another, and move tlurn as a further resolution. The Mayor Most certainly. But I ask, in affirming this also, what have we done substantially to a solution of the question ? Mr. Jenkins Taken a great s-tep. You have got your priuciple affirmed, and the thin edge of the wedgo in. Mr. L. A. Homfray: The amendment was carried with the disti:;ct understanding that parties would have voted against it but for the promise that the resolution would be put. Mr. Williams This is not the first time the principle ha-s been affirmed by tho magistrates. It was affirmed in 1855. Mr. Gething urged that the resolution should be put. The Mayor directed attention to the contrariety ot the two resolutions. Mr. Gething: You don't think us children ? The Mayor: No, I treat you as gentlemen, I trust, and hop? to be so treated. The principle (the Mayor continued) to which Mr. Jenkins referred had been affirmed loug since by a Bench of Magistrates, of whom Mr. Roans and Mr. Woollett were the only memoets present. They had thought seven years ago that fees should, no longer be continued, and had recommended n I that a. s tlary of £ 300 be substituted, Mr. Evaus Which the Town Council rejected. Tne Mayor: Unfortunately rejected, in consequence of which, and other matters, we are where we are now. Tha Town Council now inform you what they are pre- pared for. Are you prepared to do the like now as then ? Mr. Gething (:& the Mayor) It has been admitted that it is regular to put the resolution. You promised to put it. Pie-ise take the sense of the meeting. Tiie Mayor then put the motion to the meeting, with the following result,: — lor.—Messis. S. Homfray, Woo:ietf, Jenkins, L. A. Homfray, and Gething (5). Against.— The Mayor; Messrs. Morgan, Lyne, and Williams. (4) Neutral.—Messrs. Evans anJ Pnillips. The resolution was declared carried. Mr. L. A. Homfriiy What is our position now ? Mr. S. Honifray. I suppose what may be termed regu- larly irregular. Tha Mayor: Well, gentlemen, I shall now move a resolution. I shall be quite in order in so doing. I move —" That the clerk to the justices for this borough be fixed at dE300 per annum, to commence on the 29th of September next. Mr. Evans I don't see how you can put it. The Mayor I am sure the perfect harmony between the two ) evolutions already passed will enablu you to see how this may be passed. Mr. Homtray: That is what I wanted you to do before. The M-<yor I do it now, you see. Mr. Williams seconded the resolution. The Mayor Is there any amendment? It was suggested that the amendment would be to move the second resolution over again. Mr. S. Ilomfray: In Parliamentary language we ought to move the previous question." (Laughter.) The votes were then taken, as follows— For the resolution—The Mayor, Messrs. Williams and Morgan (3). Against—Messrs. S. Homfray, Woollett, Evans, Jen- kins, L. A. Homfray, G. Gething, Phillips, and Lyne (8.) The meeting then broke up, after AiUing giret throe hours.

BEAUTY, WIT, AND GOLD. N her bower a lonely widow dwelt, At her feet three lovers knelt Each adored the widow much, Each essayed her heart to touch; One had wit and one had gold — One was cast in beauty's mould; Guess which was it won the prize- Tongue or purse, or handsome eyes '? First began the handsome man, Peeping proudly o'er her fan, Red his lips and white his skin- Could such beauty fail to win? B"* Then stepped forth the man of gold, w Cash ho counted, coin he told; Wealth, the burden ot the tale- Could such tempting projects fail? Then the man of wit and sense Woo d her with his eloquence; Now she heard him with a sigh, Then she b'.nsh'd scarce knowing why- Then she smiled to hear him speak- Then a tear was on her cheek; Beauty, vanish -gold depart! Wit hath won the widow's heart.

IN REMEMBRANCE OF JOSEPH STURGE. For. him nO minster's chant of the immortals Rose from the lips of sin; No mitred Priest swang back the heavenly portals To let the white soul in. But Age and Sickne-s framed their tearful faces In the luw hovel's door, And prayers went up from all the dark bye-places And shelters of the poor Not his the golden pen's or lip's persuasion, But a fine sense of right, And truth's directness, meeting each occasion Straight as a line of light. The very gentlest ot all human natures He joined to courage strong, And I ve cut-reaching unto all God's creatures With sturdy hate of wrong. Men failed, betrayed him, but his zeal seemed nourished i;y failure and by fall, Still a large faith in human kind he cherished, And in God's love for all. And now he rests his greatness and his sweetness No more shall seem at strife; And d'ath has moulded into calm completeness The statue of his life. Wh"re the dews glisten and the song-birds warble, His dust to dust is laid, In Nature's keeping, with no pomp of marble, To shame his modest shade. The forges glow, the hammers all are ringing; Beneath its smoky veil, Hard by, the city of his love is swinging Its c'amorous iron flail. Bnt round his grave are uietude and beautv, And the sweet heaven above,- The fitting symbols of a life of duty Transfigured into love. -Home Ballad* and Poems, y J. G Whittier.

GARDEN OPERATIONS. PLANT DJSPAKTMENT.— Conservatory, be.-—Whatever watering may be necessary here should be done early in the day so as to allow of getting the superfluous uioisture dried up before night, and :a'.er in the season if cold dull cloudy days should occur it will be advisable to use a little fire-heat with air during the day so as to secure a moderately dry state of the atmosphere before night. Use Ere-heat very sparingly, however, and only when it may be nect-saty to prevent injuiy from damp, or to prevent the temperature falling below 40°, or where thiols are brought from warmer houses it wili hardly be safe to d'ow the night tem perature to average below 45° but in houses containing a mixed collection of plants there is more danger to be apprehended from a high night temperature than from keeping it somewhat lower than may be suitable for some of the inmatts. Azalpns which have ceased growing and which have set well tor bioom, should now be kept as cool and hardy as possible. Dutch buibsmust be purchased and treated as recommended last week, and chrysanthemums flr early flowering well attended to with water, and otherwise encouraged to make good growth. FLOWER GARDEN AND SHRUBBERIES.—It will soon b' time to think of housing tender plants from which cutrr.<*3 are to be taken next spring, or which are to be «8tdB°ain next season. Variegated geraniums will not btar n tich frost, and where the plants have to be wir-ti red in situations which are not very suitable for them they should be taken up before they are at all injured, as they will be much more liable to damp and die t) in winter it the wood is at all touched by frost. Uol. s where there is a sufficient stock of these they tbcut" not be cut back, as is usually done with the old 8t:a,:H-, but should be kept over the winter just as they are ;I,d from the beds, and cut back early in spring after smarting into growth, when the cuttings will root ve>y freely in heat, and in the case of flower of the day, or other Iree growers, will make useful sized plants by turnins out tim-, and even the strongest growers of these do netcover a bed very quickly unless planted thick, and the plants should therefore be wintered in as large a atate as the accomodation will permit. Rooted verbenas, &c., must be well attended to, keeping them perfectly clear of green fly, and exposing them freely to air on every favourable opportunity, so as to prevent anything }ike growth after this season, and keep the plants hard, in which state they will be much les3 liable to fog off under a weik or two s confinement in winter than if they were kept in a growing soft state until overtaken by severe weather. Things which are not sufficiently established must, however, be treated somewhat more kindly, and should have a gentle bottom-heat to encourage roots but do not keep tiie atmosphere close HARDY FRUIT AND KITCHEN' GARDEN.—Look frequently over pears ar.d apples ripening, and gather those that are fit for storing. Where currants are closely netted up the trees should be uncovered occasionally on fine dry days, so as to expose the fruit thoroughly to air, in order to prevent injury from da:i:p. Trim and dress Strawberry plantations; and take advantage of dry days, when the ground is in working order, to take up and store roots, stacking them in sand in a cool place where they will be conveniently got at when wanted for use. Onions must be stored in a dry state, or they will set keep.