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To the Editor of the Monmouthshire…




HOUSE OF COMMONS. THURSDAY, FEB. 7.—Mr. Wilks presented a petition from the Committee of the Protestant Society for the Protection of Reli- gious Liberty, in favour of the complete emancipation of the Jews. (Cheers.) Mr. Finch asked the noble lord opposite, whether his Majesty's government intended to bring forward any measure for the sup- pression of Political Unions'! Lord Althorp said, it was not his intention to bring forward any such measure. (Loud cheers.) Mr. Finch was proceeding to deprecate the existence of Political Unions, as inconsistent with all regular government, when he was called to order by the Speaker, there being no question be- fore the house. The Speaker intimated that the present was the time to receive all Election Petitions-upon which those against the returns for the borough of Petersfield, the city of Oxford, the borough of Coleraine, the borough of Stafford, and the city of Bath, were ordered to be taken into consideration on Tuesday fortnight; those against the returns for the boroughs of Tiverton and Car- narvon were ordered to be considered on Thursday fortnight. ADJOURNED DEBATE ON THE ADDRESS. Mr. Hume censured the Speech from the Throne, as affording little or no information as to ministers' intentions. They had not even intimated any intention to take off one shilling in amount of taxes, or make any alteration in the mode of collec- tion and the omission made him feel more than ever the truth of the maxim laid down by that great man, Mr. Bentham, that the people should not afford one shilling of taxation, unless their rulers showed a disposition to relieve their just complaints. With regard to Portugal, the people there ought to be left to settle their own differences, and with respect to Holland and Belgium, he was equally opposed to our interference. He put it to the Ifouse to say, whether the affairs of our own country were to be overlooked and neglected, in order to adjust the differences of rival states. In regard to church reform, he was never an ad- vocate for spoliation but if the abuses of the church were to continue much longer, he was morally convinced that spoliation would follow. In the country from which he (Mr. Hume) came, a large proportion of the people were now using all their exer- tions to remodel their own church-a church which was essentially different from the Church of England, and presented none of the abuses by which the latter was disgraced. With this example before us, he warned the noble lord (Althorp) not to apply his remedies with a too sparing hand. He was most anxious to give his humble support to his Majesty's Government; but, as re- garded Ireland, he felt that he could not do so. He should be glad to know if the judge had been impeached, who had taken upon himself to alter the Irish Reform Bill'! Mr. Stanley said he certainly did not agree in the judge's de- cision. Mr. Hurtle-Some more satisfactory explanation ought to be given on the subject. His honourable and learned friend, the member for Dublin, was not the agitator—the right hon. gentle- man was the agitator. He believed the right hon. gentleman in- tended his measures for the best; but, as there was not one man in Ireland who had confidence in him, his removal ought at once to take place. The government of Ireland cost £ 2,000,000. If the grievances of Ireland were redressed, the greater portion of this sum might be saved. The government would, by their con- duct, give additional power to his hon. and learned friend, and make him king. (Laughter.) He hoped the amendment would be withdrawn, and that the amendment which the hon. member for Lambeth intended to propose would be adopted, which was to this effect, after the paragraph calling for additional power-" as may be found necessary but if, under the circumstances which may be disclosed to us, we should be induced to entrust his Ma- jesty with additional powers, we shall feel it our duty to accom- pany that acquiescence in his Majesty's wishes, by a close and diligent investigation into the causes of discontent in Ireland, with a view to the application of prompt and effectual remedies and that, although it is our duty to receive the petitions of the people of Ireland with regard to the legislative union between the two countries, and to leave ourselves free to consider the sub- ject, yet we are ready to support his Majesty in maintaining that union against all lawless attempts to defeat it, or to invade the peace, security, and welfare of his Majesty's dominions." Mr. Robert Fergusson supported the address. Major Beauclerk warned ministers against proceeding in the career which they were pursuing towards Ireland. No allusion whatever had been made in the Speech to the West Indies. Now, if the ministers expected to crush the question of slavery in the West Indies (a laugh), he could tell them that they were very much mistaken. The first ship which would carry out the speech, would bring such news that would produce consternation and terror, the end of which would not easily be seen and, if blood- shed was the consequence, on the heads of ministers be the re- sponsibility. Although he was opposed to the repeal of the le CommisSi'u.01' ?^4 was '"decent in the r rht hon. gentleman r'P declare in that hou vj.titty's govern- Air. Hall said, it might perhaps be deemed presumption in him who had so lately had the honour of a seat in that house, to rise up for the purpose of addressing it after the able and eloquent speeches they had lately heard, and after the lengthened debate which had already been gone into, but he would rather subject himself to such an imputation than sit down and give a silent vote on the important measure before them. He could assure the house, that it was not his intention to take up much of their time, or to prevent hon. members more conversant with the state of Ireland than himself from delivering their opinions, but during the few observations he had to make upon the present occasion, he trusted he might claim the patience and indulgence of the house. (Hear.) The question immediately before them was that an address be presented to his Majesty, in the tenor of the speech from the throne, to which the hon. and learned member for Dublin had moved an amendment, which, if allowed to pass, would compel the house to form itself into a committee, and enter verbatim into the contents of the address moved for by the noble lord. Now he (Mr. Hall) would confess, that, feeling as he did every sympathy for the sufferings of his fellow-subjects in Ireland, he could not but regret the proposition of the hon. and learned gentleman, because he thought it would not tend to any very material benefit, but that the time of the house would be taken up in discussions which, in his opinion, had better be delayed until the questions upon which such discussions must again arise be brought fully and fairly before the house. (Hear, hear.) Upon this ground, therefore, he was not disposed to vote for the amendment of the honourable member for Dublin-but in giving his support to the address, he was well aware that he pledged himself to give additional powers to his Majesty's mi- nisters, to enable them to carry into effect the laws now in ope- rstion in Ireland. He did so with reluctance, because he re- gretted that cause should exist for additional powers but he hoped that in the course of a few days the right hon. Secretary for Ireland would come down to this house fully prepared to lay before it his views and intentions with regard to that unfortunate country, that he would enter into the subject in a tone of con- ciliation, not one of intimidation-(hear, hear)-and that he would explain clearly and explicitly the extent of power with which he desired to be invested. He was willing to place con- fidence in the members of his Majesty's administration, judging of them by their former conduct but although he voted for the address to his Majesty, he must reserve to himself that liberty which every hon. member now had of opposing such additional power, if he considered that the demand was too extensive, or if he deemed it incompatible with the real interests and welfare of the sister country. (Cheers.) He could not sit down without adverting to the real state of Ireland. Let them view it in any way they pleased, he would say that it was in a state bordering upon distraction—the seeds of discord had been sown, and un- less timely remedies were applied, they would reap a plentiful but woeful harvest of misery. Allusion had been made by the hon. and learned member for Dublin, to the absence of a noble lord, and it had been followed up by the noble member for Devonshire. Most sincerely did he join in the regret expressed by those hon. members. He regretted his not being here in a private as well as a public point of view. He lamented the ab- sence of a man endued with every feeling of honour, whose con- duct could only be actuated by a wish to do right; whose ex- cellence of character, and whose integrity of principle could be surpassed by none, but were found equalled in the person of his noble father-(hear, hear, hear)—bearing a title which, con- nected as it was with Ireland, and represented as it was by its possessor, must call forth love and regard from every feeling bosom in his native country. (Cheers.) But what did this ab- sence prove ? It showed that the noble lord would not sacrifice his principle but it also manifested that there was a spirit in Ireland which had proved almost irresistible. He was not one of those who ascribed the present miseries of Ireland to the acts of his Majesty's ministers he would not even lay them entirely on the head of the former administration but he believed that they were the consequences of a long series of misrule, producing internal discontent, and offering food for agitation. (Hear, hear.) He would not now enter into the subject of the repeal of the Union, because if that question should ever be brought before the house he should have future opportunities of discussing it; but at present he would merely state, that although he wished every reasonable benefit to be conferred upon Ireland, and con- sidered that she should partake of the same blessings and com- forts which he as a subject of England enjoyed, he would oppose that measure to the utmost, because he, in his conscience, be- lieved that a repeal of the legislative Union, notwithstanding all that might be now said to the contrary, would tend surely and speedily to a dismemberment of the empire. The hon, member then alluded to the speech of the noble mover of the address, and regretted the tone which had been taken by the noble lord, and after calling upon the house calmly and dispassionately to review the state of Ireland, and laying aside all animosities, to resolve at once to exert itself to ameliorate the condition of that unfortunate country, sat down amid loud cries of Hear." Mr. Tancred supported the address, in a long speech. The hon. and learned member for Dublin had stated with truth that we were on the brink of a volcano. If only one half of what that hon. member had stated was true, he should be willing not only to consent to suspend the habeas corpus, but to appoint the Duke of Wellington, or any other man in whom the country had confidence, to be dictator of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Mr. O'Connell spoke to order. (No.) He wished to know whether it was constitutional in that house to suggest the possi- bility of the appointment of a dictator 1-The Speaker made some observation, but in so low a tone of voice as to be quite inaudible. -Mr. O'Connell: What the suggestion of the appointment of a dictator over Ireland !—TAe Speaker: I am inclined to think that the hon. and learned gentleman, in the warmth of his feel- ing, somewhat misunderstands what has been stated. There was no recommendation to appoint a dictator. What was stated, was stated hypothetically and, if I recollect rightly, some sug- gestion of of the same kind had been made with respect to the king of Ireland. (Loud cheering and laughter, both of which continued for some time.)—Mr. Tancred had used the expression without the slightest wish to give offence to any one. Mr. Cohbett and two other members rose at the same time. There was a call for Mr. Cobbett, and the others gave way. If, said he, Ireland is good for nothing, as has been said, why not let her go ? You are monstrous loath to part with it. (Hear, hear.) There never was a falser doctrine in the word than that, because Ireland has exported more since the Union than before it, that therefore in the same proportion Ireland is more pros- perous. In exactly the same proportion that the trade of Man- chester increased, in the same proportion have the profits of the manufacturers, the wages of the labourer, and the comforts of the labourer decreased and in these times of excessive pros- perity," there are at least 10,000 persons in Leeds not getting so much as 3d a-day. Mr. Macaulay-I never said a word about prosperity. Mr. Cobbett-The hon. member said, that he had the honour of being the representative of a very prosperous town. He is the representative of Leeds, I remember something that was said by the hon. Secretary for Ireland that pleased me exceedingly. He has given a criterion of the right of resistance and it shows, that a man should not be too confident in what he says, nor be too hasty in pledging himself to any thing. The hon. member for Middlesex, then member for Aberdeen, made a proposition for curtailing the church incomes. The right hon. Secretary for Ireland, a great authority, laid it down as indubitable law, that parliament had no more right to deal with the property of the church, than with the property of any private individual. Yet the right hon. Secretary for Ireland, who made that declaration, has now found out, that parliament has a right to deal with the property of the church-that it is public and not private property. It was necessary, he said, to touch it, and yet to touch it would be spoliation. Nothing is clearer than that the church property is public property; and nothing is clearer than that it is owned by the aristocracy of the kingdom. Not above forty families hold all the church property of Ireland and I ask whether it is the interest of the gentlemen of England to have their estates mulcted to the extent of two millions sterling, according to the calcula- tion of the member for Middlesex, to maintain an army of sol- diers to compel the payment of tithes to forty families 1 Does religion demand It ? Does the religion of Jesus Christ demand it? No—it does not. In these troublesome times, when some refuse to pay taxes, and others talk of resisting this and that, it is extremely desirable to have a criterion or standard of the right of resistance. It has been given to us, and I thank him for it, by the Secretary for Ireland; and, as if his authority were not sufficient, we have the high confirmation of the hon. member for Leeds. They saiabat the Americans resisted, and that they had a right to resist; and they almost added, that they rejoiced in the resistance and its success. I never went so far as that. This is what the Americans complained of: depriving us, in many cases, of the benefit of trial by jury." Let us reflect, that this justified resistance in the case of America, according to the opinions of members of his Majesty's government, I pray you, then, gentlemen, let not us attempt to deprive our Irish fellow- subjects of the benefit of the trial by jury, and thus afford them a lawful cause for open resistance. Mr. Finn entered into a variety of statements to show, that the present condition of Ireland was entirely owing to the sys- tem of misgovernment which had prevailed there. Lord Ebrington contended, that the crimes now in course of being committed in Ireland, did most loudly demand that a strong arm should be interposed for the purpose of preserving property and maintaining order. Sir R. Feel made a long speech on the principal topics in the King's speech. He thought it most important that the house should at length approach to some measure of practical legisla- tion, and that it should consume as little more time as possible in mere debate. He entertained a hope, that the interests, the rights, and the privileges of the church were intended to be main- tained in full vigour. With respect to the Church of Ireland, the words separate consideration" were those to which he objected. If the expression meant that there were peculiarities in the cir- cumstances of the Church of Ireland which demanded the appli- cation of a separate principle to them, he viewed such a declara- tion with horror. (Sir Robert then pronounced a high eulogium on Mr. Stanley.) If long possession and the prescription of more than three centuries, was not powerful enough to protect the property of the Church of Ireland from spoliation, there would be little safety for any description of private property, and much !ess safety for that description of public property which was in hands^gf the lav corporation. He was determined, with the s-A inaintair1-^ as indissolubly connected with the peace, security, and welfare of his Majesty's dominions, the legislative union between the two countries." Do not let it be said that he pursued this course from any desire to recover office. He felt that between himself and office there was as wide a gulf as could separate any man from it amongst those whom he addressed. He wished to say that, although he gave his support to the address, it was not from increased confidence in ministers.— Debate adjourned. FRIDAY, FEB. 8.—The adjourned debate on the address was resumed. Mr. Ruthven, Mr. lioarke, and Mr. Fitsgerald supported the amendment. Mr. Browne said that he had heard nothing which could in- duce him to countenance the amendment. Mr. Peter said that remedy and coercion must go hand in hand. Mr. Rotch said that, if the house should not judge the intended coercive measures necessary when they were proposed, it would rest with the house to withhold them. Putting that interpre- tation upon the words of the address, he should certainly sup- port it. Colonel Torrens said he could not conscientiously vote for the address. His reason was the total omission, in the speech, of any thing like an allusion to the distress which prevailed in this country. Mr. Briscoe said it was his intention to support the address, but regretted that nothing had been said in the speech respecting colonial slavery. ° Mr. O'Dwyer observed that much had been said against agita- tion lately, but, disclaiming any intention on the part of the Irish members to encourage or produce revolution, pledged himself that they would never forego their constitutional agitation until they ridded the country from the baneful influence which the present government exercised over its destinies. Dr. Lushington read an extract from the oath taken by Catho- lic members since the Catholic Relief Bill, remarked, that, when hon. members spoke of destroying the Church, he felt great diffi- culty in reconciling such language with the solemn oblioation they had undertaken. ° Mr. Walter trusted that speedy measures would be adopted whereby the pressure of taxation would be relieved. Under that impression, he should vote for the address. Mr. Shaw observed that he approved of the speech in general • and there was but one allusion made to which he differed— namely, that as to the propriety of applying a separate considera- tion to the adjustment of the property of the Irish church. The hon. gentleman warmly defended the conduct of the Irish magis- tracy, and said, the truth was, the hon. and learned member for Dublin was jealous of every species of authority but his own. (Hear, hear.) The great fault with the Irish magistracy was, that they were content with passive resistance, and that they were not susceptible to the influence of bribery and patronao-e. The hon. and learned member for Dublin called upon the govern- ment to do justice to Ireland but did the hon. and learned member speak in that house as he did when he addressed his countrymen in other places ? That hon. and learned member told his countrymen that no man should hold property in Ireland who possessed property in another country. (Hear, hear.) The sentiments and intentions of the hon. and learned member were plainly pointed out by his own words, for that gentleman had said that he would not be satisfied till he had crossed the threshold of an Irish parliament in College-green, and till he saw justice done to Ireland." He (Mr. Shaw) thought that he had made out to the house that they could not satisfy that honourable member but by the repeal of the Union. For his own part, he (Mr. Shaw) would at once declare that sooner that subject him- self to the mob tyranny that would then indubitably ensne,- sooner than undergo the slow torture of the worst of inquisitions that would be then erected in that country, he would rather part with life at once. Mr. Walker and Mr. F. O'Connor supported the amendment. A division then took place. The numbers were— For the Amendment 40 Against it 428 Majority —388 Another division took place upon Mr. Tennyson's amendment (for which see Mr. Hume's speech). The numbers were— For the Amendment 60 Against it 393 Majority 333 Adjourned till Monday. MONDAY, FEB. ll.CASE OF MR. PEASE.—Mr. Wynn brought up the Report of the Quakers' Affirmation Committee, and gave notice that on Thursday he should move that the affirmation of Mr. Pease be received instead of the usual oaths. Mr. O'Connell presented a petition, complaining of the griev- ances arising from the vestry system, and of the bloodshed occa- sioned thereby, and praying for the abolition of the system. Mr. Slaney gave notice that, on the 25th February, he should move for leave to bring in a bill to secure open spaces in the immediate vicinity of public towns as public walks. Also that, on the 25th April, he should move for leave to bring in a bill to enable journeymen manufacturers to ensure themselves against temporary want, by giving them facilities for raising a joint-stock fund, to be invested in the public funds. Mr. Bulwer asked the noble lord (the Chancellor of the Ex- chequer) whether it was the intention of his Majesty's govern- ment to bring forward any measure relating to the stamp duties 1 The Chancellor of the Exchequer said it was not the intention of his Majesty's government to propose any such measure. Mr. Tennyson gave notice that on the 2d of April he would move an address to the Lords, calling on their lordships to revise their privilege of voting by proxy This notice was received with cheers. Mr. W. Whitmore gave notice of a motion on the subject of the corn laws for the 25th of April. Mr. Beauclerk now gave notice that, on the 1st of May, he would call the attention of the house to the duty levied on malt, with a view to its entire repeal. The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved that the report of the Address to the King be received. Two or three Catholic mem- bers declared against the interpretation that their oath precluded them from legislating respecting the church establishment. Mr. O'Connell considered that he had as much right as any member to legislate on the subject; if not, he trusted he should forthwith be expelled that house. He again strongly opposed the address, and said he should resist the bringing up of the report thereon. He condemned the hypocritical conduct of the ministers. Mr. Spring Rice, in reply to the assertions that the Union was prejudicial to Ireland, referred to various official returns, showing the large sums of English money that had been applied to the improvement of Ireland, and to other officIal documents, proving the advantages which that country had derived from the Union with England. Mr. Cobbett again denied that the increase of exports was any evidence of the prosperity of a country. Mr. Robinson animad- verted upon the line of conduct pursued by Mr. O'Connell and his friends. Mr. Richards supported the address, without pledging himself to approve of the measures of coercion that might be proposed. Mr. J. Browne condemned the conduct of Mr. O'Connell, and repelled the charge of cowardice which that gen- tleman had brought forward against one of his (Mr. Browne's) relations. Mr. M. O Connell contended that there was no cause for the grant of additional powers to the Irish government. Mr. John O'Connell spoke to the same effect. The address having been brought up and read a first time, on the question that it be read a second time, Mr. Cobbett addressed the house at great length, and proposed as an amendment an en- tirely new address. Mr. Fielden entered into various details, to prove the extent of the prevailing distress in the manufacturing districts. Mr. T. Attwood expressed his surprise that, in the King's speech to the first refoimed parliament, no mention was made of the insupportable distress of the people. Mr. Hume considered that it was wasting the time of the house again to divide on a question that had been already decided. Lord Or- melie defended the observations he had made in moving the ad- dress. The house then divided upon Mr. Cobbett's amendment. The numbers were- For the original motion 323 For the amendment. 23 Majority against Mr. Cobbett's amendment -300 Mr. 1. Attioood then proposed two other amendmants, which were negatived without a division and the house adjourned.


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