The Cambrian News and Merionethshire Standard

ABERYSTWYTH. SIR f Ti x L- L>. LLOYD, M.P., AND E. M. RICHARDS, A ESQ., M.P., AT ABERYSTWYTH. Hall very b,Ye auditory assembled in the Temperance Ola i01-evening — the attendance including c -^dies—to hear the addresses of the members for the thAp nrl b'u?hs of Cardigan. Thomis Jones, Esq., sev ,a-vor> presided, and there were on the platform ttiernVi =eT1.tlemen. The assembly listened to the hon. ine ers NN-itil th. greyest attention, there being only °f a T>na.t interruptions caused by the disorderly conduct Th rp, ar'^ who found his way int:> the hall. ge!1j.ie asked for a patient hearing for the lion. a eiltle 'tll,l sa-*Id that iiiyoie would be at liberty to Jfl m questions, after having heard their addresses. then f jje r. • '*• L;/)ri), who was received with loud cheers. acc j1,1. Mr Mayor, ladies, and gentlemen I believe that Rich i ^(> the ru'es °* etiquette my friend Mr the if. S to be the first to address you, as he has e of me by being the county member; out for (.1 .'uri not sorry the Mayor has called upon me first, ■ to di11S reaS()n" I remember an old adage with reference I tahTr Pities, that you should always place upon the ac the best dish last. (Laughter.) My friend is more the:t()lnell to large audiences than I am, and are ,-ia,1 ,Yml),tt,,i, ,Y,re., O,is why you are inclined, perhaps to wIth him more strongly than with nh. You bin saying that as the straw flies so the viad lifti;VS' ^aerfcf°re I should like to make one or t.vo pre- asne'^t'V ^servations before entering upon the political "f affairs. There has been some idea that my can a ln ^'ei'e rather loth to meet our constituents. [ at,! aiUf'ver ^"r myself that such never was the case. I Afv- Wai's happy to meet my constituents at any time. ti>'i,f^e Yas rather like that of the sly youg lady waiting j ti.jij'r -ed "—(laughter)—I rather waited for an invita- i » my constituents; and having received it I at once ft th;Yi iea- (Cheers.) Ineed not tell you that I myself have I I ]»■«' *atest grat.fication in coming to Aberystwyth, because n,(- I come to r:-y friends and I believe you would s,1 ''1(i me tne honour of electing me had you not ^ave f V* a<lmiratiou for me. Therefore receive what I vty with some measure of consideration, even if the 11 absolutely agree with all. We are not all of tlie SfUle m'rifl even in the great party to which I belong ar r?.'ll*e sections at variance even in the Cabinet there Hial- ttrenceS of opinion. Therefore I know you will a | '^e Nome little allowance upon certain points, and take Jll,ad and liberal view of the whole, and I hope you will .,Say, "After all he is not a bad sort." (Laughter, and Cheers.) I should like to'review, in the first place, what was last session. I take no credit for the disestablish- ment of fcjjg Jris]j Cimrcli, which has now gone by. I was, ^'nve\-Pi-; very glad and proud in having anything to do a v' .t'le mea'sure. I believe it was a great settlement to j yi'lionlt question. Although the disestablishment of the Y-'VI'1 Church has not absolutely quieted Ireland, yet it is J&tit to consider it as a measure which will lead ultimately ?° the tranquilization of that country. The first—a very measure of last s.>??ion "was the Irish Land j ;'j- There were peculiarities in the tenure of land in pland, which, I believe, England and Wales are not -jlutely free from. In Ireland, for the most part,_ im- I rovemeuts iu buildings and so forth are done, I believe, .the expense of the tenants, who .often are shamefully i Vl,°ted, after spending a lot of time and money upon1 .1 '^dings. It was felt that the disestablishment of the l ish i. ilUl'eh would be a very meagre measure, unless followed a good measure giving security to tenants. (Cheers.) Diyself hold—and I am sure that most of >ou agree with e~- that where a tenant really does his duty to the land, it properly, and pays his rent, he should not be evicted-(hear, hear, and cheers)—and that upon all ques- bOIls of opinion in politics he should be as free as the air Ue breathes. (Cheers.) I remember last session looking an old volume of Hansard, and I referred to the debates Upon th- Reform Bill of 1832. The franchise was confined freeholders, and the Marquis of Chandos moved a Efs°lution that £ 50 tenants should have the franchise. answer to the motion was that tenant farmers were "emarkably independent of their landlords, and would vote 8,8 they liked. The Chandos clause of £ 50 is as powerful argument as I ever read in favour of men's voting^ as e.V pleased. (Cheers.) If a Bill were necessary to give "dependence to the Welsh and English tenant I should most happy to join in it. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I leyer influenced a tenant in my life I alway made it a .)olllt with churchmen and strong tories, that when thev vi to vote for me I made them vote against me I iave c'>eree I men tu vote against me (Laughter.) How- Ver) I hope we may not require in this country for the snant a Land Bill; but if it is necessary it must come. *ut I hope to see all electors—all tenants, whether belong- jfg to the town or to the country—protected by the ballot. Loud cheers.) Not that I don't prefer open voting that do prefer, if I have the choice, because I think it is more lanly, and gives a better foundation for political purposes; out I am afraid men cannot use their independence with- ut the ballot. (Hear, hear.) It is all very well 1 theory, to say, let a man do as he likes— -all — but he must be protected by the allot. (Cheers.) How he will manage to keep the elet-that is for him, and quite another thing. I now :Irne to another measure which is rather of a more ticklish laracter—the Education Bill. Now, I believe it was lore than the general opinion of England that the time id come when the English people should be educated. I slieve that the great Reform Bill giving household lffrage really stimulated it. I know it was the opinion snerally in America—they are liberal, you know—that ie household suffrage in England was of no use unless le people were more generally educated—that it was sally necessary to teach the people how to exercise the utle" ise. We want to see every elector think for him- slf, and not led by the nose. (Laughter.) Then, how 'as that to be -done ? That was the question of great aportance. Now, it is very difficult to pass any great .easure in England. If we had belonged to the Con- tient—if the Minister of Education had been a foreign iuister, he might have brought in a purely symmetrical teasure, based absolutely upon secular principles. But, I John Bright says-and I perfectly agree with him— hen you do legislate for this country, you should build pon the old line of the Constitution. We have the Prions history of a thousand years: build on that and tprove don't cut your hawser and go adrift. (Ap- And I agree pretty much with what Mr Forster that if you had brought in a purely secular measure, Would have broken the principles of the past and ■°lated the hopes of the future. (Cheers.) In passing measures we require the combination of both sides the House no single party, however strong, could pass .great measure like this. Well, then, what was the ?m*ter to do ? I think—and no doubt my friends think itil me—that Mr Gladstone and the ministers judged 1SL>1v iu brin<Tinor in such a Bill as recognized all that has 3ei1 done, alfthe millions that have been spent, in educa- 0n> and in saying tbis-if you can raise sufficient money v°luntary means, well and good if you cannot, you bring in the rate as supplementary. I believe that ? right measure in towns like Aberystwyth, it is abso- £ necessary. (Hear.) Where I have a doubt as to it is in small rural parishes. I have talked a deal to the farmers and others upon the subject, and ey are anxious for the Act to be tried a little more in e towns first, and if they see it will answer they will °lJt it. I don't look upon this question in a denomina- pl' l>oint of view for although I belong to the Church ^'igland, I eon't care one rap whether children in this are brought up by Nonconformists or the Church J^ftgiand, or adopted by Presbyterians or any other hut I wish to see them brought up as Christians, and having the grand Old Bible as the foundation of their cation. (Cheers.) I don't see how you can separate Ration from religion we know we are told that whe- 1 we eat or whether we drink, it is all to be for the ry (rod. Our religion enters into our daily life it t],C'llf'3^Qri between Sunday and week-day. t hope to '.the education of the country carried on in an unsec- Lan a_ud undenominational way. (Hear.) I quote n "l aoam- He said, I wish every child to be t to love G-od, and to speak the truth." (Cheers.) I '"mk, after all, we are so much divided upon the tl(>n we all aim at the same ends. It may be I look a n this as a tentative measure but I don't think that ^a-te-sohool system is of any avail unless you have ab- fiimpulsion. We may build magnificent schools, v n°" children to come. In our neighbourhood we f no want of acc immodation in schools; but we the children to attend. Let us improve ami not ?m!1 the Bill, because it is not based upon a sym- 1lca' foundation. English legislation is never abso- f y Perfect in theory but measures work very well in -end \Ve do not get worse: we hold on our way, ^t more liberal as we go on. (Cheers.) I don't f we ;u,. doing badly. At all events I have given you H 'vv; \l 1 don't meet the approbation of everybody, rr 'V't it. I think, as an honest man I ought to o -n opinions. (Hear. hear, and cheers.) i will i irrJn V 1 SU3ceptible of instruction. I a™ only Iayflv daughter.) Now I come to the dis- 3«wiwh,e iin-li^ Church. If the matter were TOur Of r >r. vu U8 U would be decided by a majority m P -(^-PPlause.) But we are only Isustwj • Britain (Laughter.) Mr Forster ..i f majority of the English people are not in ereL Jftabfment °f the Church; and u would n%T th«mea?ure would do no good, because Wte J it 5-ave thV,01ce f the people with you. The y it \voi'? tlSCUf henceforth in the literature of the •W'h not inf1 all f^vW0?- Slefp" (Applause.) 'S^li Ohih l l01- ° the dlfsUbIi«hmeut of the ,re and I hoi^ to^ fafV0Ur 0f the Church )ttt inter han^e b T come when there will be "n:st.s in ° between Episcopalians and Noncon- Jt I w'mf I'"7 Ca?v' 0rnacl1 ,other a great deal of good. In Vi no' /p.see \e SJ,lur?h -l sreat deal more democratic tl>e teoJZ"hee/ JJhe Sh"n!d be e^entially the church cd oft Wrk With the N<»nconfor,nists and helP eacl» other^ •u,t know ,/neX question is the war. I ln«. hearing un,nM°Pi l l ag^e .wifch as to one « Preservation1^hJu'[adstofn«« statement concerning in his war K SuPP°8c England (,f Moody Sif'e U d haVlbeen ^tending the ei>v l.y Ktnte and increasing human sufFeri,? 0„,1 »•«. zi } f"r nj^holdint iu J- .ocate for Peace at any price • I lW "2fpt?!Old England, aridSt We have enrl u S en 83 we have done. I be- The money ^11' but. no ProPerly organized and that I tell v P80?h 1S "J()bbetl" in some ve y°urselves. a.r,^°U carKl1(H.y- I am only a Welsh- Tnf?", Ma«y Of our0t«f^PiP°Sed to know much of shion ,i tel1 you the truth 'nu m?n are not UP to tlle tv"o1l,.nv'1i',na them—what' re is a sort of hackney sti (Lauo-hw\horse -racing a 915,1 blood" i cllards hi tlii r< hclieve that a few a grel't i1*?1! ? Would get it -net would infuse ^iaioii dealof hnmbuo-amr> eir money's worth. 0U' vLaugJiter.j Thev -official men that's h6y set a sort of official groove and don't like to get out. coming when the people of England wil sa} + « have our money's worth." I think we oughu to have a perfectly well-organized army, and the national defence, ought to be placed on the very best po.-jsib e basis. Officers of militia and volunteers should be paid all expenses while officially employed, but still retain their character a, volunteers. Officers of militia and volunteers should b. selected not for any party or private moti ve, but on account of their efficiency. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I ho lion, gentleman than offered to answer any quennions tnao mi 'ht be asked him, and concluded as iollows—l am very "•lad you asked me to come here I hope you will ha ve a meeting litre every year, and when you are tired ot me you must give me a hint, and I will say, "(gentlemen, I thaiik you for past compliments," and retire. (Loud laughter and cheers.) I Mr E. M. Iticu.utDS, M.P., was then called upon uy the chairman to address the meeting. The lion, gentle- man was received with loud cheers. He said—-lr^Alayor, ladies, and gentlemen I feel great pleasure in_a„tending here to-night, but I confess that that pleasure is mingled with some sadness. I cannot forget th it when 1 came a stranger to Aberystwyth in 18GS I was welcomed by one who extended his confidence to me and aided possible way to attain the position which 1 have ie honour to occupy to-day, and I cannot tniinc taa^ 1 s i i < be doing my duty to one who has left us unless I paid my tribute to what I believe is true worth, anil express ie sympathy I feel-not only with the town of Aberystwyth, but the county of Cardigan, in the loss we have all sus- tained in the death of the late Mr Matthews. (Applause.) I feel that I owe some explanation to those with whom he lived—and amongst whom he lived with great respect- that I was not able to attend to pay some homage of re- spect at his funeral. I was laid on a bed of sickness a the time of Mr Matthews's death, and it was certainly matter of great regret to me to be unable to join witn those whom I see present here to-night, in attending on that occasion. I am sure you felt, in paying respec- memory, that you were only fulfilling the true duty of citizens. (Applause.) Mr Mayor, allow me to J I came here to-night with perfect satisfaction, th^ til-1 be able to give an account of my stewardship taa^- y be satisfactory to the large majority of H see before me. I cannot, of course, expect to fi; faction to everybody but I think I can say m that I came here having redeemed every Jm, I publicly made in this hall in 18G8. (App ■) c I am not aware of any single vote given in the Hon-e of Commons that has not been in harmony with. the opinion of a large majority of the constituents of this county of Cardigan. When we met in 1870, we met witn the hope that the Government would be able, not only to introduce measures into the House of Commons, but to pass inea- sures that would give satisfaction to the great majority of the people of this country. ( App^uise.) There were a large number of measures shadowed forth in the Queen's Speech; I need not detain you with the whole of them; but foremost amongst them, as my friend Sir Thomas Llonl has said, were the Irish Land Bill and the Educa- tion Bill. We met in the House of Commons and heard these remarkable sentences in the Royal speech. Her Majesty sai'l "Th* friendly sentiments which are enter- tained^ in all quarters towards this country an I which her Majesty cordially reciprocates; the growing disposition to resort to the good offices of allies in cases of international difference and the conciliatory spirit in which several such cases have recently been treated and determined, encourages her Majesty's confidence in the continued maintenance of the general tranquility." Nnv, Mr Chairman, these are remarkable words of peace in the early part of the session, and they are remarkable more particularly because that session ended amidst one of the most bloody wars that have ever occurred in the history of the world and I cordially join with my hon. friend in saying that however much anyone might differ with her Majesty's Ministers in other questions, there can be but one opinion upon this, namely, that ot deep grati- tude to Mr Gladstone and to his party that we in England and Wales have been kept out of the turmoil and difficul- ties of war; and I feel that there is a great set off for many things that we believe to be deficiencies in the legislation of last session, in the recollection that we have been spared the bloodshed and the expenditure that would have been occasioned by intermeddling in the affairs of continental nations during the last ix months. (Hear, hear.) I cor- dially endorse the sentiments that have been expressed by my hon. friend with regard to that great measure that has passed for Ireland, and I heartily rejoice, my friends, that a landlord in the county of Cardigan, and one so respected as Sir Thomas Lloyd, should have the courage to come here to tell as that he would be prepared, if necessary, to extend the provisions of a measure which has proved advantageous for Ireland, provided the necessity arose, for England and Wales. (Cheers.) I ventured, however, cordially to ex- press a somewhat similar opinion some few nights ago, that if the Tenant Right Bill was found to answer wel' in Ireland the experiment might very possibly be required to be tried this side of the Channel, and my remarks were held to be almost revolutionary. However, these remarks are endorsed to-night by a landlord of Cardiganshire, and one whom I am pleased to see as representative of the Cardiganshire Boroughs. (Applause.) Gentlemen, I don't wish to raise up any question between landlord and tenant; but one cannot shut one's eyes to what is passing around us. We cannot but see that men are not able, as Sir Thomas Lloyd has said, as they should be, to express their opinions freely they are not able to do so in a free and independent manner. I believe that insecurity of oeiluro tends to lessen, to a great extent, the gain of men of agriculture. I contend that if tenants had the satis- faction of knowing that they would be recompensed for improvements made by them, and not turned away by the whim of an agent or landlord, agriculture would be in a more satisfactory state. (Cheers.) Holding these views you cannot be surprised at my saying that when this question arises in the House of Commons it will have my serious consideration, with a desire to extend what has proved advantageous to Ireland to the tenants in England and Wales. (Hear.) My hon. friend has referred to another great question that has passed the House of Com- mons, and passed the House of Lords also. Not all measures that are passed in the Commons are passed in the Lords; however, the great question of education has now been settled by Act of Parliament, and I cordially rejoice that the Government of this country has said, by a statu- tory enactment, that it is the duty of the State to take care that every child has the advantages of education. (Loud applause.) Now, Mr Chairman, I differ with my hon. friend with respect to the Education Bill. I differ with him on the question of religious education. I feel that it is the duty of the State to take care only of the secular education of the people. (Long and continued applause.) I feel that it is a dangerous thing to allow the thin end of the wedge to come in in any form whereby the State shall interfere at all in the religious education of the people. (Applause.) I know that that opinion will be endorsed by a large number of the people of Aberystwyth, and by a large number of the people of Cardiganshire, and when I say this I say it is quite a sufficient answer to the charges that are sometimes made against those who con- sider that the State should not 111terfere in religious edu- cation, because if there is one county in England or Wales that has a right to say that the religious education of the people has been provided for, it is this county of Car- digan. (Hear, hear.) Why, sir, I believe I am correct in saying that in this very hall a conference was held some twelve months ago, at which this question of education was fully considered by those in whom the people had en- tire confidence and the decision of that meeting was that whilst on the one hand you did not wish the Act of Parliament to say that the Bible should not be read in school, your clear determination was that, as far as possible, State aid should only be given for secular educa- tion and entertaining these views, I supported a motion brought forward bymyhon. friend, the memberfor Merthyr —Mr. Henry Richard-in which he raised that question. We were beaten upon a division, but I for one thought it right to make a protest against any State aid being civ en for religious purposes. Now, I am not going to find fault altogether with this Education Bill; I believe means of great good will result from it. (Cheers.) But it would be incorrect if I said I cordially endorsed the whole of that Bill. I feel what we—speaking now as Nonconformists—have not been, I may say, well treated by the Government in the mode in which the Bill was compiled, for I feel that concessions were made to the opposition, which were more favourably considered by the Government than the suggestions made behind the Treasury benches. (Hear.) I feel that the aid that has been given to the extension of denominational schools will be a blot upon the Bill for some time to come. I say for some time to come, because I don't believe this deno- minational mode of teaching will have a long existence. I admit most fully the deep debt of obligation that this country is under to the clergy of the Established Church for their efforts in the cause of education—(hear)—for they, whilst landlords have omitted the performance of their duty in days gone by—whilst those who could have afforded to assist the clergv in doing their duty have not done so—to their great honour be it said, the clergymen of the Established Church have been the pioneers of edu- cation throughout the length and breadth of this king- dom. (Applause.) Iam not unmindful of what we owe them; but, whilst I admit we owe them a deep debt of gratitude, I also feel that the time has come when we, as Nonconformists, have our duty to perform, and that is to take care—however much we have neglected our duty in the past—take care in the future that our children s'rll be educated, and educated by those who are responsible, and ought to be responsible, for their education. I feel that the education of children ought to be, to a certain extent under the control of their parents, and the only v jn' which that can be is by men of to-day taking their hare in the election of School Boards -in the election of whom the conduct of the education of the future ■?i u <viTifidpd I can see no other objection to the Wf wf-hmont of School Boards throughout the country establishment or OL Xow j- kuow tMs qiu.s. than the g n very hardly upon the people in turn of ratu notwithstanduig that the education is this country rates I do contend that you and to be maintained Y (ju^y unless we take our I shall not be per ori rates upon our shoulders, fair share of the burden^of these^ (Hear.) I say th mrish to take out of our clergyman or the S'l'iireof ^1 education. It is hands the conduct of tin* for the education our duty to carry on what is necessa j not to of the children, and in doing our du y the shirk payment for it. I do not believe mj self that tne great outlay sometimes shadowed forth erage cost this. Mr. Forster's calculation was on the averse for each scholar throughout England an Glad- would be something like 25s. each per annum. „ f stone, in a speech he delivered, spoke upon » and said that assuming 25s. per year to be th- each scholar, and assuming Government paid 128. 6d., being one-half of the necessary expenditure, the other half would be raised by a rate of 3d. in the pound, in addition to the school fees. Assuming a locality to be too poor to raise by a rate of 3d. in the pound the sum of 7s. Gd. for each child, Government will step in and make up any deficiency, or, rather, to use his own words, "favourably consider the circum- stances In other words, the deficiency will be made up Well, I say, assuming that it is our duty—your duty and 'mine, and the duty of every citizen of this country—to make provision for the education of our children, we shall have it in our power, as my hon. friend has said, to take c;tre that every child is sent to school because if from poverty or other circumstances a School Board is satisfied that a parent cannot pa,y for the education of his child, it is in the power of the School Board to pav for the education. Now, I myself intensely re-ret that throughout England and Wales this election of School Boards has become a question of Church and Dissent. (Hear.) I regret it exceedingly but I feel that from the way in which the religious difficulty was re- mitted to the country by the Government very little else than that could be'expected. However, gentlemen I hope that experience will teach those to whom is confided the educ ttion of the young that their duties will have far "reater import-wee in the proper education of the children than in any furthering of denominational views at all. Of course it will be the duty of School Boards to take ctre tInt denominational teaching is not insisted upon to the detriment of the school; but I think that after a little conciliation on the part of our Episcopalian friends, and a little i ving in in what is necessary on the part of our Diss°ntin,r friends, time and experience will do much to X, religious difficulty, and a year or two ,nee the great bugbear will have passed away, the "Teat desire on all hands will lie that children shall 6e"educated, and that the shocking disgrace of ignorance shall be wiped entirely away. (Hear, hear.) In addition to this great question of education there were two or three minor Bills introduced, in which I felt, as the repre- sentative of Cardiganshire, I ought not to absent myself from the House. There was a Bill brought in by my friend, the representative of Denbighshire—Mr Osborne Morgan—a Bill t'> enable dissenting ministers to officiate in the c'mrchyards of this country. (Hear, hear.) I have already said in this county, and I repeat it, that I feel we, as Nonconformists, have some reason to complain of the conduct of the Government with respect to that Bill. When Mr Osborne Morgan brought it in, the principles, on both sides of the House, were, as far as I understood, admitted but some points of detail were raised, and the Bill was referred to a select committee to be smuggled away, as it seemed to me, by its own friends and Mr° Morgan withdrew the Bill. I believe that the Bill will be re-introduced in the coming session, and I have some confidence that it will become law. (Hear.) Another Bill was brought in by my hon. friend, called the Religious Sites Bill, to enable sites to be obtained for pur- poses of schools and places of worship. Part of this Bill was absorbed in the Education Bdl. The right hon. gen- tleman, the Vice-President of Council, adopted Mr Morgan's principle witn respect to schools, and clauses were introduced into the Bill by which the Education Department can obtain compulsorily, lands for the purpose of building schools. I don't know the intentions of my hon. friend with respect to sites for places of worship. Last session he made out a strong case, and I have no doubt in the coming session he will be prepared to re- introduce the Bill. 'I also, as a Nonconformist, and as a liberal, supported the Bill introluced by Mr Somerset Beaumont to relieve the bishops from attendance in the House of Lords. (Laughter.) I had the pleasure of listening to a speech by the hon. gentleman, and he made an overwhelming case. He will, I believe, re-introduce a similar measure. NViia-tever the result of the discussion in the House of Lords will be, I feel sure it will go through the House of Commons. Certainly my vote will be given in its favour. (Hear.) Well, gentlemen, there was an- other Bill introduced into Parliament, in which the people of Cardiganshire, I know, feel considerable interest —a Bill brought in by my hon. friend Sir Wilfrid Lawson, called the Permissive Bill. Here I may say that upon this question of the Permissive Bill, I was asked by a friend, for whose influence I have great respect, to pledge myself, when the Bill was introduced, that I would vote for it. But, gentlemen, I have the satisfaction of saying he did- not press the question upon me, being satisfied, I think, that I was pretty sound upon this question. I don't mean to say I endorse every opinion expressed by Sir Wilfrid Lawson. I do not agree with the whole of the clauses of this Bill. I voted in its favour, as protesting against the mode in which the present question of licensing public-houses is dealt with by the Legislature and I be- lieve that my vote was given—as the votes of many others were given-not in absolute belief in the principles brought forward by Sir Wilfrid Lawson, but to show Government we were determined, as far as possible, to insist upon a satisfactory measure being introduced with all the au- thority of Government in the House of Commons. We had the assurance of the right hon. gentlemen that this session a Bill would be introduced, with all the powers of Government, to settle, upon a large and broad basis, this question of public-houses. I need not say the question will receive mv most anxious attention. The question enunciated by Sir Wilfrid Lawson has been pressed upon me by my constituents, in different forms. A large num- ber have pressed upon me, also, the question of entirely closing public-houses on Sundays. Gentlemen, I must ask you to-night for an extension of that confidence in me that was extended to me upon the question of the Per- missive Bill. I do not pledge myself upon any course. My vote will be given after due consideration of the im- portance of the question. Upon this question of pledges, perhaps I may be allowed to say that one great reason of satisfaction I have in appearing before you to-night, is, that I went into Parliament un- pledged upon any question, either privately or publicly I gave no inan a pledge upon my conduct in any particular point; and to the honour of Cardiganshire I say that no one either privately or publicly has endea- voured to sway one single vote of mine that has been given upon any subject brought before the consideration of Par- liament since I have been in the House. (Cheers.) I have been absolutely a "free agent"—(laughter)—so far as my constituents have been concerned. If my votes have been given in harmony with the opinions of a large majority of the people of Cardiganshire, they have been given of my own accord, and I alone am answerable for them. (Hear.) One other Bill which was shadowed forth in the Queen's Speech, but which has not become law, was the Mining Regulations Bill; that Bill certainly would have some influence upon the mode in which children are einplovetl upon the mines in this district; but it was with- drawn last session. It will be introduced by Mr Bruce this session and for the satisfaction of my friends in the mining district I may say I shall co-operate as far as I can consistently with others, to see that no undue restrictions shall be placed upon employers of labour in any mining district. (Hear.) One Bill was lost to us which I am sure all deeply regret. Now, my hon. friend has told you that men ought to be free ta vote in accordance with their own opinions. I am only repeating a truism when I say that under existing circumstances men cannot vote as they believe to be right. Whether it be voting for imperial legislation, whether it be voting upon parochial question*, or whether upon the question of sending members to an Education Board, I make bold to say that men are not able to vote as they believe to be right; and I say that the only possible relief that can be afforded us is the ballot. (Applause.) I say one thing more-that it would be better that this mock right of the franchise should not be given to the people if they are not allowed to exercise it freely. (Hear, hear.) It seem3 a mockery to say that men shall vote for members of Parliament—it is a mockery to say that men shall vote for members of Boards of Guardians, and for members of School Boards, when we know as a positive fact that the screw" of the agent and landlord prevents their exercising an opinion (Hear, hear.) Better by far that the vote should not be given if men cannot exercise it independently. (Cheers.) I feel I ought not to trespass too long upon this meeting, but there is one great question foremost upon all men s minds at the present moment, and that is the great question of warlike armaments. I don't pretend to be able to criticize the military necessities of this country. I do know, how- ever, that we are spending a far larger amount of money than continental nations are upon this dreadful prepared- ness for war. I need not tell you who read the newspapers that this country is now expending nearly twenty-seven millions a year upon its army and navy. I feel that if fifteen millions a year will not give its an efficient army, another five or ten millions certainly will not help us a great deal. I differ entirely from the assertion constantly made, until it has become in some men's minds almost a truism—that to have peace we must be prepared for war. I don't believe in the doctrine, and I don't think it can be substantiated by past experience. I say here, what I have already said in this county, that to my mind, the fact that France was so well prepared for war, and that Germany was so well prepared for war, has been the great reason why the beautiful country of France has been deluged with blood. We all know-at any rate those who read what is going on-that when the question was asked by the Emperor of the French as to the preparedness of the French army, it was said by the marshal commanding that France was never so prepared for war as she was then. It was the assurance that all were prepared for war that led to the cry of "Off to the Rhine." This is a great question for us to consider, and if we can do away with the feeling that to have peace we must be prepared for war, it is your duty and my duty to combat that war- like feeling which is spreading throughout the land. (Hear, hear.) I will take the liberty of quoting a few words from a speech delivered by Lord Derby. Lord Derby, as you know, always speaks sensibly. He said It does not follow because some of our neighbours have chosen to run mad that we are to run mad also, and talk as if we were about to act under the influence of panic or passion." Now, gentlemen, these are the words of a sober statesman, and are most worthy of being remembered. I believe that this great cry for war is dangerous to the in- habitants of this country. I cannot be one to vote for additional money for the purpose of extending the arma- ments in this country. (Hear, hear.) Then it is said by some that, although you may not require to spend more money it is our duty to defend the country. Why, Mr Chairman, I apprehend there is no one in this room who would be backward in defending his country if necessity absolutely required it. I believe Welshmen and English- men, too, inhabitants of this great kingdom, would be ready if necessary to defend their hearths and homes. (Hear, hear.) But I don't believe in the doctrine put forth by a great many people that the masses of the popu- lation should become soldiers. ( No.") No, certainly not You know Germany is pointed out to us as an ex- ample of organization, and almost perfect organization; and we are told to "go and do likewise. My opinion is that the organization required in Germany-or assumed to be required in Germany-is not required in England and my voice and my vote will certainly be raised against com- pulsory service in the army. (Hear, hear.) Many in this room are old enough to remember the days of the press gangs, and the horrors they used to occasion. I am not prepared to revive the press gang for the navy. (Hear, hear.) I do not hold with any compulsion in the service whatever. I would let those who make their quarrels be the only men to fight. The present mode of declaring war requires some alteration. It is horrible to think that on« man like the Emperor of the French or like the Emperor of Germany, should have it in his power to say war shall be declared, and thousands and hundreds of thousands of lives sacrificed at the com- mand of any one man. In this country the power of de- claring war ought to be a little more hedged around than it is at present we ought to have more safeguards than we at present enjoy. I believe that the powerof aJlowingthe Queen to declare war, whether during the sitting of Parlia- ment or in the recess, is a power that requires revision, It is the fashion for us to be told of the honour and dignity of this country. Why, I believe that the honour and I dignity of this country are as dear to those who love peace as they are to those whose trade is war but we look upon the question from different points. If we had followed Mr Cobden's principle of not intermeddling with other nations in days gone by, and also in our own days, much bloodshed would have been spared and money saved. What has been the result of wars in our own days? Take the dreadful war in the Crimea. We spent something like two or three hundred millions, and about 857,000 men were sacrificed during the war, and after all it ended in a peace with Hussia, that is in d mger at this moment of be- ing disturbed. After all the bloodshed and waste of money what did the Times say concerning the war? It said "never was so great an effort made for so worthless an object." The hon. gentleman then alluded to the Conference meet- ing in London upon the Russian question, and expressed a hope that its labours would result in peace and that after the settlement between France and Germany nations would begin to "learn war no more." In conclu- sion, the hon. gentleman observed: You know the doctrine of "peace at any price" is laughed at; but a great many of the good and worthy in this land have adopted the maxim. Peace at any price, but war at no price wh itever." (Cheers.) I am sure that the latter is the true maxim we ought t,) follow if we want reform at home. (Hear.) If we want home questions to receive consideration we must be content to leave this question of armaments to some extent aide. I hope that during next session of Parliament men's minds will have become calmed after the panic attempted to be raised throughout the land, and that we shall meet on the 9th of February to do what is necessary for the due protection of this country and to legislate upon domestic and home ques- tions. These questions cannot be considered simultane- ously. Men's min Is will be so excited by discussing this question of war, but that it will be our duty to endeavour, as far as possible, to quiet that feeling. (Hear.) Let us rather consider and press forward those questions that come home to the minds of all of us, and endeavour as far as we cun to show our legislators that we don't believe in the danger that is said to exist with respect to the inva- sion of this country. The efforts that have been made for warlike purposes have been drawbacks to domestic legis- lation. The lion, gentleman here read an appeal by Mr Disraeli in 1859, in favour of "terminating this disastrous system of wild expenditure" and mutually showing, by the reduction of armaments that peace was desired. These, Mr Richards continued, were Mr Disraeli's views in 1859; I hope they will be his views in 1871, and that the reduction of expenditure that was made by the present Government in 1869-70 will be carried forward. (Hear.) You know that during those two years we were relieved of four millions of taxation but when this wild cry of in- creased armaments came upon us in July, 1870, two millions of our savings were swept away in one night. I hope that in this part of the country the cry will be a de- sire for peace and for retrenchment. My hon. friend has referred to Hansard in 1832 but I am sure if he had looked a little further he would have seen that the cry put before the country by the whigs was for petce, retrench- ment and reform. (Cheers.) That cry ought to be echoed by us to-day. If my votes will influence it, they certainly will be given in that direction. (Cheers.) Now, Mr Chairman, my hon. friend, with more boldness, I confess, than I can muster, ventured to tread upon the very diffi- cult subject of ecclesiastical questions. Allow me to say I came amongst you in 1868, a Nonconformist by birth and by belief, and I don't think it desirable in this meet- ing to discuss ecclesiastical questions; but when these questions come before the House they shall have my careful consideration, and my votes will be given in accordance with the feelings of the great majority of the people of this country. I ask you to extend to me in this matter the confidence you have hitherto given me, and depend upon it that confidence will not be misplaced. I shall go to the next session of Parliament in precisely the same spirit in which I have hitherto gone there, intending to fulfil my duties, and to fulfil the promises I have from time to time made to my constituents, and with a desire to carry into effect the grand old maxim of Jeremy Ben- tham—" The greatest happiness of the greatest number." (Loud applause.) The CHA.IKMVX then asked if any gentleman had any questions to ask the hon. members. Mr J. W. THOMAS stated his views to the meeting concerning alleged indifference in matters of local interest by Mr Richards, M. P. Mr Thomas said that in connec- tion with the university movement throughout Mi- Richards had studiously held aloof from taking any active part in it and when the members for Wales met in London to consider the question, Mr Richards was con- spicuous by his absence. Men throughout Wales were taking an active part in the movement, whilst Mr Richards gave no public encouragement to it. ("Shame.") There was a feeling in the town that Mr Richards ought certainly to do something to promote the interests of that university, which was both local (as far as they were con- c -rned) and national in its scope. He asked how Mr Richards stood affectefl towards that great movement, and whether he was prepared to accompany a deputation to wait upon Mr Gladstone with the view of obtaining a substantial grant towards the object. Sir T. D. LLOYD said that with reference to that sub- ject he was glad to say that he could come out with very clean hands, because he was a supporter and a subscriber. He was a strong advocate of the movement, and thought it would do a great deal for Wales. He would venture to make one observation, if they would take it in good part, namely—that the Nonconformists in Wales might, in one week, and with very little exertion, finish the college at their own expense. Air. RICHARDS said that he thought the question might have been asked without the condemnatory preface. That would have been more in harmony with fair play. With reference to the deputation, he undertook months ago to join that deputation to Mr. Gladstone—(applause)—and he did not know that he deserved any sweeping con- demnation with regard to that University College. (A voice You are a brick and laughter.) He was happy to hear he was a brick." (Renewed laughter.) He had promised his subscription of fifty guineas to Dr. Charles for the college—(applause)—but declined to take a promi- nent part in connection with the college, having no time to enter upon matters of that sort, and besides that, he did not consider it his duty as member for the county to take upon his shoulders the responsibility of working out a large affair of that kind. (Hear, hear.) He had given it all the assistance he could, so far as his views were in harmony with the promoters of the movement. He was quite sure he had been asked these questions under a mis- apprehension of the facts. (Applause.) There was one point h el had omitted to refer to, namely—the Bill introduced into the House by the Solicitor-General respecting the Uni- versity Tests. They knew his opinions upon that ques- tion, and they had been backed up by his vote; and if the Bill should be again introduced, he certainly should support it. In reply to an ELECTOR, Sir T. b. LLOYD said he should be most happy to give his support to Mr Osborne Morgan's Sites fcr Chapels and Burials Bills, with certain restrictions. Another ELECTOR asked Mr Richards to express his opinion upon the Permissive Bill, and upon the question of closing public-houses on Sundays. Mr RICHARDS said he held that ratepayers in a district ought to have a voice in the licensing of public-houses. He said that as a magistrate. There were too many licences granted already. With regard to closing public- houses un Sundays, he did not see howitcould be managed it would be an injustice to travelers. With certain restric- tions, he should like to see all public-houses closed on Sundays. In reply to the Rev. A. GRIFFITH, Sir T. D. LLOYD said he was in favour of the universi- ties being thrown open without any restriction. In reply to another question as to the purchase system in the army, the hon. gentleman said he could not see his way clear for its abolition. He would give his best consideration to the subject. Mr RICHARDS did not understand questions being asked requiring absolute pledges. He did not apprehend that anyone would consider that the purchase system in the army could be done away with witnout compensating those now in office. The purchase system was wrong, and he should like to see it abolished. Sir T. D. LLOYD said that if the system were done away with promotion would be very slow indeed. The Rev. JOHN WILLIAMS proposed, and the Rev. GRIFFITH DAirEs seconded, That this meeting shows its approval of the conduct of the two members during the past session, and confides in their faithfulness in the future in regard to those measures tending to civil and religious liberty, and the advancement of the country in its various aspects. An ELECTOR asked whether Mr Richards would vote for the disestablishment of the English Church or not. Mr RICHARDS said he thought he had made the ques- tion perfectly clear. When the question of disestablish- ment came before Parliament his vote would be given in accordance with the views of the large majority of the people of this country. (Applause.) liie resolution was carried with about three dissentients. Both gentlemen acknowledged the vote of confidence, and the thanks of the meeting having been accorded to the Mayor for presiding, the assembly dispersed.