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! n-he Naval Programme. .

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n-he Naval Programme. IMPORTANT PRONOUNCEMENT BY SIR EDWARD REED, M.P. ltearly a Dozen First Class Men-of-War Totally Unfit for Battle. In responding for the Naval and Military Forces" at the Chamber of Commerce banquet at Cardiff on Wednesday night, Sir E. J. REED, M.P., said it was his -food fortune to know that, even in the trying aad novel and distracting days of the anodem Navy, the Naval Service had not been Jonnd wanting either to their Queen or to j-fhemselves. (Applause.) In representing this great maritime town in Parliament, he had never thought himself so entirely an inappro- priate representative as some other persona considered him. He had been accustomed all the time to think of Cardiff aa connected oy in- visible, but very efficacious, lines with every ether port in the world, and he had always felt that the man who represented this town in Parliament witnout a careful reg-ard to its • naval greatness would be an insufficient, if not an unworthy representative. (Applause.) Same people talked as though we lived in a period when national dangers had all passe ,.wa, and when they had nothing t to but sit under their own vines and fig trees, "none daring to make us afraid while the world lasted. (A laugh.) He could not forget, however, that it was only a century ago since the French created a great revolution, and it was less than a century that one of the greatest conquerors in the world cast his eyen 1 upon this little country with no indifferent, regard, and who, after acquiring Prussia, and Austria, and many other states, would have deemed it the proudest leaf in his crown of Imperial laurel to hare mastered this island, and brought it under the doaainion of his Imperial wHI. Why, in former days, were they able to capture the superior ships of France ? Because those battles allowed one element, by sea and land, which they had always turned to account, namely, the element of time. In the old days of the warships, not only could they not sink them in five minutes, but they could hardly sink them at all. They could drive the enemy ashore, set him on fire, dismember and dismantle him, and destroy his crews, but rarely, indeed, did they succeed in sinking him, because his ships were built of very floating material, not only in the immersed, but also in the unimmersed parte, and many a time, on the sea as on the land, the English people had been de- feated for a time, but they made the best use ef that time, and succeeded in bringing honour to their country. If in the past he had Apekexi with seriousness and anxiety about the Aa-ral service, they would permit him to say th..t he had an excessive responsibility resting- upon himself. It fell to his lot between the years 1863 and 1870 to advise the Admiralty as to whether it should or should not abolish the ancient Navy and the ships, which were nothing more nor less than the improvements extending through many centuries. He advised the Board of Admiralty not to put their trust in weoden ships, but to build of iron, because they might be made as safe, and would be many times more valuable, thau the wooden struc- tures of the past. But he declared, upon his honour, that if he bad foreseen some of the insanities to which successive boards had lent themselves, he would have given them the opposite advice. (Applause.) Not Ionsr ago, only just before the late Admiral Sir George Tryon was made admiral of the Fleet, he sat next to him at dinner in London, and said he did not believe in these new-fangled ships built of iron to protect them between the wind and the water, and if he had to hoist his flag to meet an enemy he would rather hoist it on the old Hercules or Sultan. He (Sir Edward) mentiosed this because he had been told they expected him to say something about the necessity (or alleged necessity) of an increase in „ the Navy. (Applause.) There was one suffi- cient reason for a large and urgent increase in the Navy, and that was the public recognition, at last. of the unfitness for battle of nearly a dozen iirst-cjasa line of battleships. That was the statement he would like to justify. He supposed everyone present was aware that if they made any kind of ordinary iron or steel vessel of light material and pitched it into the water it would float, but if they made holes in it be- neath the water it would sink. But what pros- pect was there of their ships not having holes made in them ? Well, he was concerned in the construction at this moment of a foreign eraser. (Hear, hear.) It was a vessel without any armour at all, and without pre- tensions, but to be a very fast vessel, to do what mischief she could effect under comfortable conditions. (Laughter.) jBnt that vessel carried two 8in. guns, ten 6in. ifuick firing guns, twelve 3-pounder guns, ten l-pounder runs, two guus of something under jin- in the barrel, and two Gatling guns, and be had no hesitation in saying there that night that ,"ery one of those guns could penetrate the uu- irmoured ends of ten of their line of battleships, which, being penetrated, must sink. (Hear, hear.) Let him give them corroboration. The Admiralty had taken this question in hand, and, in reporting on the Victoria, case, had taken upon themselves the responsibility of f trying to persuade them and this country that f these ships were sufficiently safe. Let me give them reasons for doubting their statements. ('' Hear, hear," and laughter.) In the first place let him mention Dr. Elgar, who was there daring the time of the visit of the naval archi- tects. (Applause.) He was a fellow student and a fellow colleague of his (Sir Edward's) for ? years under Mr. White, the present naval eon- v" structor, and they now stood equally on a scien- tific basis with each other. (Applause.) More than that Dr. Elgar was some years ago appointed director of her Majesty's Dockyards by the Conservative Government, in recognition of his ¡ distinguished skill and ability. (Hear, hear.),: Dr. Elgar bad reviewed the Victoria report. Writing in Nature on December 14, 1893, he said — The foregoing considerations may suffice to show that we see no sufficient grounds for believing the Admiralty to be right in the assertion that the absence of an armour belt at the bow had no influence upon the final result of the collision in the ease of the Victoria, still leas that an armour belt could not be made more effective than it now is." (Applause.) He further said, rikiag of the ships he had condemned, and Admiralty—as he would show them—had condemned, Their names now figure in the co, list of first-class battleships and make our Navy appear stronger in this class of ships than it really is. If they were clashed according to their real fighting value, the necessity for adding to the number of battle- ships would appear stronger than it now does to those who cannot judge the relative merits of thips." This was a distinct statement of one of the most distinguished naval architects alive-thu,t those ships were not to be reckoned with the line of battle, and could not fight their battles at sea. (Applause.) He would next quote a Gladstoniaa admiral-if he was permitted to so call him—Admiral Lord Alcester, who was the naval secretary to the First Lord of the Admiralty, and who after- wards bombarded the fortifications of Alexandra, and was raised to the peerage, and who was a man who, he knew, would be most hesitating in his condemnation of this kind. (Applause.) What did he say recently? Writing to the Daily Graphic on November 22,1893, he said :— I would hardly care to stake my reputation with some of our weak-bowed, unarmoured-end battleships in commission to-day in any fleet I took into action. You may, perha.ps, think this a strong thing to say, but it is my deliberate opinion, Why, it is simply preposterous to suppose that the enemy is going to make a target of your protected centre just to suit your convenience." If they defended one-third of the ship with armour and left the two-thirds un- defended, the enemy, who knew all about their battleships, would not waste time in attacking the armoured portions, but would concentrate their efforts upon the undefended parts. (Applause.) He had another thing to say, and it was this Since he drew attention to this question of the Victoria, and pointed out that ten other ships were as certain as she was to suffer in the same way, several of these ships had been re-called from public service. (Applause.) The Inflexible, the Duke of York, the Colossus—certainly three or four of them had been brought home, and they—that was to say the great commercial ports of this country — were to have them placed at the entrance to their rivers for their defence because, he presumed, they were not fit to defend them elsewhere. (Applause.) He had another fact. The Admiralty in the Victoria case, when they made a defence of the ship—what did they say ? They said that the Victoria only had a minute's notice to close the watertight doors, whereas they ought to have had four minutes' notice, and then the ship would just have floated after the injury — in smooth water that was. But no man ever had.' four minutes' notice of collision. (Laughter./ No man could expect or demand four minutes' I notice of a collision. (Renewed laughter.) If a man could know four minutes before the time he was going into collision, he would not go into collision—unless he was mad. (Continued laughter.) What had happened? He said to 8:1' E. Shuttleworth in the House of Commons, when these reports on the Victory appeared, "You have put the question in a new position. You and Lord Spencer and your colleagues at the Admiralty have now guaranteed to this country those ships that I condemned, and you will be the men who will send those seamen to their doom if they go to it after this warning you have had." (Ap- plause.) And, now, what did they read in the newspapers? The sister ship to the Victoria was the Sans Pareil-a ship stationed in the Mediterranean. She was a flagship. After the loss of the Victoria she was taken into the port of Spezzia to carry the flag of the admiral, although every French officer derided the situation. In the GLobe of January 5, 1894, under the heading of Naval Notes," occurred the following :— I have just received the following from the Saus Pareil, which appears to me sufficiently valuable to quote: 'We are still at Malta, and by the work they have got to do I think we shall stop here till next May. They are putting live new watertight bulk- heads into us, but I shall look out all the same for myself if we get a bump, for my opinion is we should do a Victoria.' Here was the Admiralty itself taking a flagship to the Mediterranean, away from her work, and putting' her away in dock for weeks and months for the purpose of adding more bulkheads and putting her in something like a fit condition to perform what was required of her. (Hear, hear.) Some of their battleships, to which he had re- ferred, were, like the Chinese painted forts, parading the Mediterranean and high seas, while for years past every naval station knew, as be had known, that they were totally unfit for battle, and could only go into it with the certain loss of millions of money and thousands of their men. (Applause.) With thií) corroÐo- ration he thought that, as the representa- tive of a great commercial seaport, in which the importance of the naval strength of the country must be keenly felt, he thought he should have been justified in doing all he could to bring to an end the present state of things. (Applause.) Prac- tically, they might consider the thing as good as done. (Hear, hear.) They might depend upon it very few more of those condemned I vessels would be sent out under the pretext of fighting their battles, and those that were out would be re-called as soon as they conve- niently could be re-called. (Applause). He was, in this connection, thankful to tell them that the agitation which, he almost single- handed, bad kept up for many years past had I had this effect, at any rate, of putting an abso- lute end for several years past to the adoption of those unarmoured line of battleships of the country. (Applause.) He had had reflections and imputations cast upon him in Cardiff as being a man who merely disapproved of the ships because he had not designed them, and because somebody else did. The lowest motives—motives that would be dis- graceful in a rat—had been freely attributed to him, even in that town, but he disclaimed them all—(hear, hear)—and the other day, when public anxiety was being felt about the Navy, he wrote a, letter to the Times for the purpose of allaying that anxiety, and shewing that he was just as ready to praise a good Admiralty ship as he was in condemning a bad one. (Applause.) The unarmoured ship must become the subject of the gun, or ram, or torpedo with greatest quickness, and he challenged the rig-ht of any man, be he naval architect, naval officer, or politician, to send a single ironclad ship into battle with English lives on board to which ship he had denied that protection of armour- plating, which was the only way of keeping them proof against the multiplicity of small shot and shell that would be directed against every ship that ventured into action. (Hear, bear.) He was extremely indebted to them for allowing him to attend there that night. It was always a plea- sure for him to attend non-political meetings of that kind. (Hear, hear.) During his fourteen years of political contact with the town he had never met a single Conservative who had said an unkind word to his face, and he had met thousands who had shown him the greatest possible kindness. (Applause.)

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