LIBERAL CHURCHMEN AND WELSH DISESTABLISHMENT. A meeting of the Church of England Liberal and Progressive Union was held at Lord Aberdare's residence, Eaton Square, London, on Wednesday, the 16th inst., when the question of Welsh Disestablishment was discussed. The main object of the meeting was to consider the attitude that Liberal Churchmen should take with reference to the question. Lord Aberdare, as chairman of the Welsh branch of the Union, occupied the chair, and, in opening the proceed- ings, said that he knew as a fact, from living in Wales, that the Welsh people as a body were not going to be satisfied with Disestablishment only. They would look upon that as a small part of the question, and without Disendowment a scheme would find very little favour in the eyes of the Welsh Members. The Welsh Church was a different thing, and if they polled the Welsh clergy they would find a larger number than they expected in favour of Disestablishment, but a small minority in favour of Disendowment. Before the actual business of the meeting was taken, Mr. Noel E. Buxton proposed a resolution on Education. It expressed the view that Mr. Birrell's Bill offered a basis for equitable settle- ment, but suggested amendments to the effect that-( I) religious teaching should be within compulsory school hours; (2) teachers to be permitted to give denominational teaching at the cost of the denomination; (3) that clause 4 should be mandatory; and (4) that the facilities to be given to transferred schools should be extended to all schools. This was agreed to, and sent to a meeting to be held at the House of Commons. Bishop of Hereford's Views. The Bishop of Hereford wrote regretting that he could not attend, but with regard to Welsh Disestablishment said that his feeling was that it should depend upon the decision of the Welsh people. His lordship added The expediency, or inexpediency, of keeping a Church established should always be determined by the general I sentiment of the people immediately concerned. Wherever an establishment has come to be opposed to the general sentiment of a people it can hardly contribute to the moral and spiritual advantages of the community. In the struggle Which will, I suppose, come up on this subject In the course of a year or two I earnestly hope that English Churchmen will not make the ftfistake of treating the Welsh Establishment and the English Establishment as one and indis- soluble, to stand or fall together." "A Drastic Measure." The Rev. A. W. Hutton, M.A., rector of Bow
< GEORGE WITHERS —AND SONS, Est. by NORRIS AND BARNES 1765, Experts, makers si Repairers, Importers of musical Strings. All Instruments and Bows repaired on the Premises. We have a very large collection of ancient Italian, French, German, and English Instruments. Price Lists free on application. 22, LEICESTER SQUARE MANUFACTORY: Hunt's Court, Charinje Cross Road LONDON.
PREGETHWYR Y SABBOTH NESAF. YR EGLWYS SEFYDLEDIG. Eglwys St. Benet, Queen Victoria-street— 11.0 a 6.30, Parch. J. Crowle Ellis. Eglwys Dewi Sant, St. Mary's Terrace, Paddingtoo. I I. ° a 6.30, Parch. W. Richards, B.A. Eglwys St. Padarn, Hornsey Road- 11.0 a 630, Parch. W. Davies. Eglwys St. Mary, Camberwell New Road- 11.0 a 6.30, Parch. Lewis Roderick. Cenhadaeth y Dwyrain, Bridge Street, Bow- 11.0 a 6.30, Parch. Howell Watkins, B.A. Y METHODISTIAID CALFINAIDD. Jewin Newydd 10.45, Parch. J. E. Davies, M.A. 6.30, Supply Willesden Green. Charing Cross Rd. 10.30, Parch. P. II. Griffiths. 6.30, Mr. R. Roberts, B.A., Liver- pool. Wilton Square 10.30, Parch. G. H. Havard, M.A. 6.30, J. Morris, Penygraig. Falmouth Road 10.45, >, S. E. Prytherch. 6.30, D. Oliver. Mile End Road 11.0, D. Oliver. 6.30, S. E. Prytherch. Shirland Road 10.45, 3 a 6.30, Cyfarfod l'regethu Holloway 10.30, Parch. R. O. Williams. 6.30, W. Davies, B.A., Caer- dydd. Hammersmith 11.0, „ F. Knoyle, B.A. 6.30, Supply Tottenham. Stratford 11.oa6.30, Parch. J. Wilson Roberts. Clapham Junction 11.0, Parch W. Davies, B.A., Caer- dydd. Walham Green 10.30, J. Morris, Penygraig. 6.30, „ G. H. Havard, M.A. Willesden Green 11.0, 6.30, 11 J. E. Davies, M.A. Lewisham 11.0, Samuel Owen, B.A., Carneddau. 6.30, „ LI. Edwards, M.A. Tottenham 11.0, 6.30, „ F. Knoyle, B.A. Walthamstow 11.0, LI. Edwards, M.A. 6.30, Samuel Owen, B.A., Carneddau. Wood Green 11.0, Mr. R. Roberts, B.A., Liver- pool. 6.30, Parch. P. H. Griffiths. YR ANNIBYNWYR. Y Tabernacl, King's Cross- 11.0, Parch. D. C. Jones. 6.30, Owen Evans, D.D., Lerpwl. Y Boro', Southwark Bridge Road- 11.0, Parch. Owen Evans, D.D., Lerpwl. 6.30, D. C. Jones. Radnor Street, Chelsea— 11.0, Parch. E. Owen, B.A. 6.30, Mr. J. D. Lewis, B.A., Oxford. Barrett's Grove, Stoke Newington- 11.0, Mr. J. D. Lewis, B.A., Oxford. 6.30, Parch. E. Owen, B.A. East Ham, Sibley Grove- 11.0 3, a 6.30, Parch. LI. Bowyer. Woolwich, Parson's Hill- II a 6.30, Mr. R. A. Jones. Battersea Rise- 11.0 a 6.30, Mr. Edward Owen, Eglwysbach. Y BEDYDDWYR. Castle Street, Oxford Circus- 11.0 a 6.30, Parch. J. T. Griffiths, D.D., Wilkesbarre, Pa. Little Alie Street, Aldgate- 11.° a 6.3°, Parch. B. Arberth Evans. Tottenham- 11.0 a 6.30, Mr. D. Davies, Regent's Park College. Y WESLEYAID. City Road- 11.0, Mr. E. Evans. 6.30, Parch. T. Jones. Gothic Hall, St. Thomas Street, W.- 11.0, Parch. T. Jones. 6.30, Mr. H. Watkin. Poplar, Duff Street- 3.0, Parch. T. Jones. 6.30, Mr. E. Evans.
Y DYFODOL [Dymunir ar i ysgrifenyddion a threfnwyr y gwahanol Gyfarfodydd anfon gwybodaeth yn brydlon am unrhyw gynulliad a fwriedir gynnal, er mwyn rhoddi hysbys- rwydd amserol yn y golofn hon. ] 1906. Mai 26-28. Cyfarfod Pregethu Blynyddol Shirland Road. 31. Cymanfa Ganu City Road. Meh. 4, 5. Cyfarfod Pregethu Blynyddol y Boro'. 27-29. Bazaar Capel Stratford. Os am wneyd y cyfarfodydd a enwir yn y golofn hon yn llwyddiant yn mhob ystyr nis gellwch wneyd yn well na rhoddi hysbysiad o honynt yn y WELSHMAN. Telerau rhesymol a gostyngiad sylweddol am gyfres. A'r papur i bob teulu Cymreig a chedwir ef fel reference. Gweler y telerau ar tudalen 11.
Church, Cheapside, read a paper on the subject. He differed from the Bishop of Hereford upon one point, as he felt that Disestablishment in Wales should be postponed until the time was ripe for a measure to be introduced to deal with the Church of England as well. He had been told that the Bill to be introduced for the Disestablish- ment of the Church in Wales was to be on the line of that of 1895, which was a drastic measure, and would include total Disendowment. A point that they should consider, however, was that the Welsh clergy were not rich. The stipends of the thousand beneficed clergy averaged about /200 a year. He thought the Welsh was not a distinct kingdom. Several anomalies would be found in dealing with the subject, and parts of English counties-parts lying in Monmouthshire, Shropshire, and Here- fordshire—would be found in the Welsh dioceses. The Church in Wales was a minority, but was an alien Church forced upon the people. There were reasons, however, why Disestablishment was wanted, and wanted quickly. When they came to consider the details, he asked whether it was worthy of the traditions of the Liberal Party to attack a disabled and small and poor minority. He had not heard anything of domineering by the Welsh clergy. What would be gained by Disestablishment and Disendowment ? For one thing, there would be the loss of four bishops in the House of Lords; and whilst Disendowment might cause the transfer of some of the finances, the game would not be worth the candle. He concluded by proposing a resolution that the question should be postponed until such a time as the whole of the relations between Church and State could be dealt with in a comprehensive measure. The Rev. W. S. Carter, D.D., of Parsons Green, seconded. The Discussion. The Rev. T. J. M'Nulty, vicar of Quarry Bank, thought that Mr. Hutton's case had been weakened by his apparent feeling that the Welsh were not a distinct nationality. He supported Disestablishment, and thought that by it the Church would gain greater freedom. Mr. Cyril Dodd, K.C., contended that if the Church had been able to develop upon her own lines-if the Prayer Book had not been a schedule of an Act of Parliament-she would have been a more powerful organisation, and there would have been less Nonconformity. Liberal Churchmen had been ashamed of the intolerant language of the bishops. Why had the Church lost the people in Wales? It was because in the past so many unsympathetic bishops had been appointed to the sees- men who could not speak the Welsh language, and had done much to crush that language out. The Rev.' Stephen Gladstone thought the case for separate treatment for Wales had been made out. He suggested that the matter should be left to the Welsh people for settlement. He had known Wales for 30 years, and believed that the Church there was as spiritual and as fully alive as in a number of places in England. He also knew the heroism of the Welsh clergy. The Rev. Picton Warlow said that, as one knowing something of Wales, he believed that Disestablishment was bound to come, and if they could not have it without Disendowment, they must take it with that accompaniment. Several speakers advocated the withdrawal of the resolution, after several amendments had been suggested. Lord Aberdare said that Wales had returned a perfectly unanimous body of Members to Parliament. There was no Conservative amongst them, and what was more, every one of the Members was pledged to press forward the question of Disestablishment. Although the Liberal Church Union might postpone their decision, the Welsh people would not do so, and the sooner their Union came to a unani- mous decision as to what their position should be the more useful would they be. The debate then closed, no resolution being put to the meeting.