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BOARD OF GUARDIANS. The fortnightly meeting of the board was held in boardroom of the union workhouse on Monday. -Resent—Mr H. C. Fryer (in the chair); Rev J. Pugh, Uanbadarn (vice-chairman) Mr William Jones, Brynowen, if x-officio Rev Prebendary Williams, Messrs C. M. Williams, John Morgan, and John tonkins, Aberystwyth Rev J. M. Griffiths, Llanfi- iangel Genen'rglyn Rev J. T. Griffiths, Llanilar Messrs Hugh Hughes, Glynpadirn David Lewis, Xl&nrhystid; James Jones, Tyllwyd; Richard Hughes, ^Cefnhendre John Jones, Penbwlch David Jones, Best; Thomas James, Llwyniorwerth; Evan Richards, JPeauwch David Owen, Maenelin E. J. Morgan, 3felindwr; David Jenkins, Glangors James Jones, XJwynglas; T. Smith, Gelmast Evan James, Tan'r- ant; William Paull, Cwmbrwyno John Jones, Moel- ^omen; William Evans, Brynhir; William James, ^wllcenawon William Rowlands, Mab'vshen John Edwards, Rhydtir Richard Thomas, Brysgaga .David Jones, Bryncastell John James, Tynrhos »nd Mr Hugh Hughes, jun., clerk. THE HOUSE. The Master reported that there were 61 in the Aouse, against 82 in the corresponding fortnight of -last,year. The number of vagrants relieved was 58, against 64 in the corresponding fortnight of last »■,» e 11 • FINANCE. the past was administered during XtafJSuS^ 6V^AI7''J±,'5,th di8ttict' p" a' of Gdanrl o 159 paupers, an increase trict npi. M e of 13 Paupers Geneu'rglyn dis- ohn D' Jones, £ 47 12s Od, to 181 a decrease of 16 paupers and ^65 relief ,L,r district, per Mr Joseph Morgan, £ 22 16s 6d to Propers. The amount in the bank to the credit m union was £ 1,352 19s lid. THE QUEEN'S JUBILEE. A letter was read from the Local Government Board enclosing an order allowing a relaxation or discipline in the house on the 2lst June (the Queen s Jttbilee) as the board may think fit. The consideration of the question was deferred till She next meeting. The Rev Prebendary Williams suggested that t y .-should give the inmates a dinner and an outing. h The Chairman said it seemed rather comic in the Jear 1877 that the board could not relax their rules Without an order of the Local Government Board.. Mr David Jones: Will they contribute anything towards it, I wonder ? ALTERATION OF DIET. The house committee recommended that the dietary tables should be altered so as to allow the paupers to '-ve butter instead of cheese, if they so desired and ';also that the old women should have a cup of tea at *Aree o'clock, as desired by them. Prebendary Williams said they found that a great dumber of the inmates did not like the cheese, which cost more than the butter. He pointed out *oat this hense was not a gaol, and they ought to do they could to make the old people comfortable. After some discussion, it was agreed to accept the of the committee, and the question allowing the old people tea was referred to the Medical officer. COST OF PRINTING, STATIONERY, ETC. Rev J- M- Griffiths said that a special meeting I* U*e workhouse visiting committee to consider the ^«estion raised by Mr C. M. Williams as to the cost i printing, stationery, <fcc., for the union was held on tarday, and the following was the report adopted:— ^special meeting of the workhouse visiting committee boardroom on Saturday last, at 11 a.m., to into the matter raised by Mr C. M. Williams at last board respecting the books, printing, and Tj*tionery, paid for by the board for the three years on the 29th September, 1886. There were Resent—Messrs J. Morgan, R. Hughes, and Rev J. "*• ^nffiths. Your committee found that the sum of 7s 7d had been paid for the above-mentioned printing, and stationery, distributed in the following manner, viz., for the use of the clerk, 15s 9d; master, £ 77 17s 8d relieving officers, 13s 9d assessment committee, £ 15 5s Od rela- tes' contribution, £ 2 lis 3d election of guardians, "y> 13s 3d school attendance, £ 19 lis Od medical ■*5eers, £ -t 17a Od; treasurer, £ i 14a Od registration *«ficers, t3 7s Od; vaccination officers, X6 2s 6d abstract of accounts, £ 81 8s 6d advertising, .£28 .08 lid. Papers will be laid before you showing farther how the several totals above-mentioned We been arrived at under the heads of account tbogks forms, stationery, law books, and miscellaneous. •Vouchers for the whole of the above were produced, either in the form of the original receipts or dupli- cates, and your committee found all to be correct ^ththe exception of the trifling sum of 4s, which by was charged to the funds of the union. The Su^jjttee waB informed that the stock in hand on the j, 1886, amounted to £ 50 6s Od, made the following:—With the clerk, £ 30 master, Mr John Jones, R.O., £ 3 6s Mr J. D. Jones, > -Mr J. Morgan, JZ2. If it be fair to deduct the *hove .£50 68 from the total £ 409 78 7d it will be ledaced to .£359 Is 7d, which will give an annual -vera.ge of £ 119 13s 10d expenditure on this depart- ment. Your committee refrain from volunteering an opinion as to whether the expenditure is higher than if. ought to bo. The committee, however, had the Expenses of 20 unions in this department before them for purposes of comparison. The annual average of unions was found to be £ 112. These unions •ave in the aggregate 456 parishes, or an average of 221, nearly. Aberystwyth union comprises 30 Joshes. A very heavy item in the expenditure is ~?-fc for printing the abstract of accounts, being 8s 6d for the three years, or an annual expendi- Ttte °f £ 27 2s lOd; although a large sum, it is, how- in the opinion of your cemmittee, money well whir*1* comParin £ f the expenditure of the 20 unions with our own, one very notable feature tae difference in the value of books and stationery master. Conway, with an annual 2~P6nditure of £ 200, only spends on the maBter's Gloucester £ 114 17s Id, spends on *-15 Cardiff with £ 303, master £ 35; Montgomery 'Piaster £ 8 5s Newtown £ 72 10s, master of *i!;«whereas our union, with an annual expenditure h ^'s 8Pen^s on department £ 21 19s ^berea^-111016 than one-sixth of the whole amount; ftln- ^'ie Cardiff union it is only a little over ftiiiefcp 111 ^l°ucester one-eighth, in Newtown one- ^m .^nth, and in Conway one-twentieth. Your *ttee call your attention to this fact, not wishing ji way to attach the least blame to the master. Workhouses perhaps are managed better than and books and stationery are absolutely neces- before everything can be preserved decently and order, and it should not be forgotten that this *™*ount includes cheque books, &c., £ 5 annually, and 32s annually. Your committee would further Remark that very many unions, perhaps the majority, Jo not print an abstract of accounts, which is the heaviest item but one in ours. Other unions again lwint a much less expensive abstract than ours. Your Committee consider the determination of the late to publish the abstract annually, and not half- yearly, a step in the right direction, being a saving of about .£15 annually. As all bills should come before \he finance committee, and receive the approval of the before they are paid, your committee would -press upon the said committee the great importance of. their duties, forasmuch as if the finance com- mittee performs its functions the necessity for another inquiry such as the one your committee has been •Qgaged upon will be obviated in future. The Chairman said he was sure the board were iDUch obliged to the committee for going into this Blatter, which was one of great importance, and if he Itad not been away at Carmarthen he should have zlwn present. He was not sure whether it was not better to adjourn any discussion on the report until "the guardians had an opportunity of digesting it a little bit and really going into it. Mr C. M. Williams said he was just going to sug- gest the same thing. He had statements which did tally with those made by Mr Griffiths, and he it ridiculous to compare such unions ae ^*fdi £ f and Swansea with Aberystwyth. The Rev J. M. Griffiths said he would find some Waller unions than Aberystwyth mentioned in the ftport. Mr C. M. Williams said he was going to suggest further that the relieving officers and master of the Workhouse should also furnish statements of what they deceived. The Rev J. M. Griffiths You will find every infor- nution necessary in the papers supplied to the com- :4D1ttee. Prebendary Williams suggested that the whole 'Subject should be deferred. Mr C. M. Williams wished to make his statement So as to give his averages, but The Chairman said if Mr Williams began his averages others would want to make statements. Mr C. M. Williams said he had asked Mr Hamer to eive him notice when this committee met, as having taken some interest in the matter, he wished to be present, but he received no notice. The Clerk It was a pity you did not ask me. Mr Williams I asked your clerk but the best commentary is that our expenses have been reduced -to £ 7i last year. Rev J. M. Griffiths That was owing to our having a lot of stock on hand. CLOSE OF MEETINGS. Mr David Jones (Rest) said that before leaving it "would be well that the chairman should declare when the board was over, so that they should not be led ittto a. mistake again. The Chairman said he had been there for very nearly ^9 years, and they never required a declaration of T&Ktflort. The chairman very often had to eit there to do certain things, and he had always fefdsed to take anything of importance after the general board ^"Mr C.kM. Williams said they never had their atten- tion called to the time until recently. He had raised a question at the last board with regard to the com- mittee, when he was told by Mr Morris Davies that they sat as a board. He had looked up the minute book, but found no entry there, and if they sat as a board they ought to have a minute. The Clerk said he never did make an entry of stationery ordered. Mr C. M. Williams It ought to have been done. Prebendary Williams It is not usual to do it. The Clerk said it was not usual. The account when sent in to be paid was passed by the finance committee, and then it was entered oR the minute b°Prebendary Williams: Everything that was done was done by the board, and we were clearly within our rights in ordering what we did. Mr C. M. Williams: There is no evidence that it W The Chairman thought the question could not be raised asS». As lone.as then tkree members nrpsfint the bo&rd w&s sitting. • i • Mr iofm Monraa he did not get op from h,s Jt'aud he asked Mr Morrto b. ,lgaed the order whether he was right in doing so. Mr C M. Williams said he did not blame Mr Morgan or Prebendary Williams, who had not had as much experience as he had. Rev J M Griffiths Perhaps some of us have had quite as much experience on boards as you have. I Mr C M. Williams: I know some Boards of Guardians have had too much experience of you. MV .Tnhn Morsan That is rather too personal. I think this board will have too much of you before '°Mr C. M. Williams urged that all orders should be submitted to the board in future. They had been extravagant in their printing. Mr Hughes, Cefnhendre, here made a remark in an undertone. Mr C. M. Williams: Mr Hughes If you have any- thing to say speak out. I can tell you something, and perhaps someone else will have something to say to you on my behalf. THE ABSTRACT. Mr David Owen asked for an explanation as to one item in the abstract of accounts in the parish of Llanddeinol, where a pauper was in receipt of 2s 6d weekly for twelve months, but the total carried out was only X3 2s 6d. The Clerk promised to look into the item and explain at the next meeting how the inaccuracy oc- curred. The Rev J. T. Griffiths called attention to the high rate of interest which they paid to the Poor Law Com- missioners. Various sums had been borrowed for the extension of the workhouse, for which they paid in- terest at the rate of 5 per cent, which he thought was too high at the present time. The borough of Aber- ystwyth got their money at 3i, and the same com- missioners lent money to Borth at £ 3 15s Od per cent. The Chairman said it was a matter which had struck him on many occasions when they were bor- rowing this money, and they had tried in several directions to see if they could not get it at a cheaper rate. The Clerk said no doubt it could be got cheaper now, but they would have to pay all the expens" of procuring the loan, which would come to perhaps X70 or £100. The Chairman thought it was a matter which Government ought to take cognizance of, and on one occasion he urged upon the authorities to get a clause inserted in some bill by which unions might have the power to borrow on the same terms as school boards, &c but he was told it could not be done, and the Public Works Loan Commis- sioners had no power to lend money to Boards of Guardians except on these terms. Prebendary Williams said the money might be bor- rowed from private individuals. The Chairman said that had been brought on, but they found the expense was too great. Besides which a person did not like to get his money back in small amounts, as it would be paid by them. The Rev J. T. Griffiths said the question was whether they could not save an amount by borrowing the money elsewhere. Prebendary Williams suggested that the matter I should be referred to the finance committee for con- sideration. The Rev J. T. Griffiths proposed that it be referred to this committee. This wa.s agreed to. The Chairman said they had about held their own during the past year the number of paupers had not diminished very much. They had improved a little, as they had less paupers by one than they had the year before, which showed that they had not gone back. The decrease in their expenditure had been rather considerable in one half year they had saved £ 120, and in the other half £ 60 in spite of the bad times. There was one question which he thought the finance committee ought to look into, namely,whether the relatives of lunatics, upon whom they spent n, large sum every year, ought not to contribute more than they do at the present time, and he pointed out the very small number of relatives of lunatics who contributed anything at all. In sending pauper lunatics to the asylum they were conferring a great kindness on the family in taking them away trom their home and in sending them to a place where they would have the chance of being cured and would be looked after. In the last half year, out of 44 pauper lunatics maintained by them, there were only three relatives who paid the whole of the cost-which was, perhaps, a fair average—and there were only three who paid part. He felt that the relatives of many others ought to pay a small proportion of the cost and he thought that the list ought to be gone through to see if some more could not contribute. Prebendary Williams thought the relatives' con- tribution committee would be the proper committee to take this into consideration. The Chairman agreed with Mr Williams. He also pointed out that the actual charge of pauperism upon the rates was now lower than it had ever been-less than 14d for the year, whilst the county and police rates were treading very hard upon the heels of the cost of out-relief. He had been asking Mr Hamer how it was that the average cost per head of the paupers in the house had been going up. Mr Jones (Rest) asked how it was that the police rate was going up ? The Chairman said he did not understand how it was. Mr David Jones did not see why policemen should not do their work for less than they did years ago, because everything was cheaper. The Chairman said that unfortunately he had something to do with raising the salaries of police- men ten years ago, when things were at their highest, the reason given being that they could not get respect- able men to join the force, and many of them, after being in the force for a short time, crossed over to the bordering counties. Mr William Jones thought they had nothing to do with that question now. Mr David Jones said that if all the guardians were advocates of temperance principles they could do with less police. Mr C. M. Williams We see that proved every day. Mr William Jones asked how it was that the num- bers in the house had decreased, and yet the cost per head had increased ? The Chairman said the one question answered the other, because they could keep 2410 people at a cheaper rate per head than 100. Still, he did not understand how it was that there should be a differ- ence of one penny per head per day for the last half- year the averaee cost was 7!d, while in the corres- ponding half of the previous year it was only 6 £ d. Mr Hamer said it was the average number of days spent by paupers in the house that affected it, but it was not quite clear to his (the chairman's) mind. Mr C. M. Williams said this was a very important question, and pointed out that in smaller unions than this the cost was not much more than half which it was in Aberystwyth. He quoted Corwen, where they had only 55 paupers, and the cost was only 2s 6Jd, and in Narbetli it was only 2s 6d. This matter was referred to the finance committee. Mr C. M. Williams called attention to the number of sureties of officers of the union who were either dead or insolvent, and after some conversation, the question was referred to the assessment committee. Mr C. M. Williams referred to the question of the legal expenses of the past year, amounting to £ 53 lis Id, which he thought was a very heavy item. The Clerk said it was not a heavy item, as it included the expenses of the Tanllan case, which were £ 40. That case cost the union more than .£120. Mr David Jones said the guardians ought never to carry on a law case. as he never recollected their winning one (laughter). The Chairman said they never went to law. Mr David Jones said that in this Tanllan case they were advised that they were quite right. The Clerk: But I can't win a case if it is a bad one, however well I fight. VACCINATION DISTRICTS. Mr C. M. Williams proposed that the parishes of Llanbadarn Lower and Llanychaiarn be transferred to Dr Hughes's district for vaccination purposes. This was agreed to. VISITING THE HOUSE. In reply to Mr C. M. Williams, The Chairman said that any guardian was at liberty to go over the workhouse when he pleased.

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