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IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. c.

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IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. c. In the HOUSE OF LORDS, June 26, Lord Stratheden and Campbell called attention to the affairs of Tunis, and moved tor further correspondence, which was agreed to. In the course of a conversation on the amendment of the Irish Land Act, initiated by the Earl of Galloway, Earl Granville said that the Government were most desirous to bring the Arrears Bill into that House at the earliest pos- sible moment, but he declined to discuss that measure then. Replying to Lord Dunraven, the Foreign Secretary stated that when the Egyptian question was discussed as a whole he should be prepared entirely to defend the;conducfeof the Government throughout the whole of the negotiations. I Their Lordships adjourned at twenty minutes to seven •'clock. In the HOUSE OF COMMONS, Sir C. Dilke told Mr. Arnold that it was not in the power of the Government to make any statement at present as to the proceedings of the Conference or its duration. They must depend upon the course of events and the views of the Powers. The third sitting of the Conference would be held this day, and he had no reason to suppose that there was any occasion for taking steps to guard the preponderance of England and .France. The hon. Baronet also informed Mr. Bourke that the Government has not heard that Ragheb Pacha has addressed a letter to the Italian Consul General; inviting him and his colleagues of the Consular body who might happen toiJe interested in the massacre of the 11th inst. to appoint their delegates on the Commission of Inquiry. But the British Consular authorities in Egypt had been instructed, if such a Commission were constituted by Ragheb iPaeha, to Jaojd themselves aloof from it. CETYWAYO S VISIT TO ENGLAND. Mr. W. Fowler asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether it was true that intelligence had reached the Government to the effect that the health of Cetywayo was so much affected by his captivity that unless he was speedily released his life would be in serious danger and whether it was true that he was coming to England. Mr. Ashley in reply said:-After communicating with Sir Henry Bulwer, the Government have decided that there is no reason for any longer postponing the promised visit of Cetywayo to this country, and instructions have been sent to Sir Hercules Robinson to act accordingly, but to remind Cetywayo that this visit in no way commits the Govern- ment to any future course. (Cheers from below the gang- way. Sir M. Hicks-Beach asked whether any despatches on the subject would be presented, or whether they would know in what way Sir H. Bulwer had changed his opinion. Mr. Ashley said the only communication they had had was telegraphic. He believed there would be no objection to laying the despatches on the table. Sir M. Hicks-Beach asked if Sir H. Bulwer had changed his opinion. Mr. Ashley said he had changed his views, and had ex- pressed an opinion that there would be no longer any objec- tion to bringing Cetywayo over to this country. (Hear, hear.) THE CHANNEL TUNNEL. Mr. B. Davenport, inquiring whether any works in connec- tich with the proposed Channel tunnel were being still carried on, Mr. Chamberlain replied that the works were experi- mental works in anticipation of the works of the tunnel, and not of the tunnel itself. As to the extent of the works, it was impossible to obtain information until the Board of Works were able to inspect them, but up to the present time they had been unable to arrange with Sir is. Watkin, Chairman of the Channel Company, an amicable inspection. He was, therefore, in consultation with the law officers of the Crown, with the view of seeing if he could not arrange for an inspection. THE PROPOSED CARRIAGE TAX. In answer to questions from Mr. Harcourt, Mr. Glad- stone said he intended to go on with the proposal in the Budget for raising a carriage tax for the relief of highway rates, and to do his best to persuade the House to put the Government in funds to carry out the pledge lie had given early in the Session. Beyond this he declined to give any undertaking. Mr. Har- court thereupon gave notice that at the earliest oppor- tunity he would move that no financial proposal can be satisfactory which does not provide for relief to the high- way-ratepayers on a basis which makes the general public rateable for the roads formerly maintained by tolls. POSTAL TELEGRAPHS. On going into Committee of Supply, Mr. Cameron called attention to the rates charged by the Post Office for the transmission of inland telegrams, and stated that the prin- ciples on which the charge for telegrams should be based were rightly explain, d by the Postmaster-G eneral to be two. In the first place, any undercharge was to be deprecated, as involving the taxation of the community for the benefit of those persons who sent telegrams; and, secondly, any overcharge was to be avoided, as resulting in the taxation of the senders of tele- grams for the benefit of the community. The earnings made by the postal telegraph system had gradually risen, until they amounted to £540,000 per annum, a sum suf- ficient not only to pay a 3 per cent dividend on the capital employed, but also to provide a surplus of J6220,000, representing a profit to the tax-paying com- munity made at the expense of the senders of telegrams. It had been asserted that the adoption of a sixpenny minimum charge for telegrams would lead to a loss to the Post Office of £ 167,000 per annum. But with a surplus revenue of £ 180,000 per annum the Post Office could afford to try the experiment, and he was satisfied that before long the increase in the number of telegrams would convert any loss that might be sustained by the reduction of charge into a profit. A tax upon telegrams was a tax upon commerce, and he therefore as-ked the House to pronounce that tax inexpedient. He begged to move that "The working of the Postal Telegraph service with a view to the realization of profit involved a tax upon the use of tele- grams, that any such tax is inexpedient, and that the profit derived from the service is now such that the charge for in- land telegrfimi should be reduced." Mr. Mo' k h i :(reat pleasure in seconding the resolu- tion. On t ve-' 1 occasions within the prIst, few months he had been in communication with the right hon. gentle- man with regard to a reduction in the rate, not only of inland but also of foreign telegrams, and the replies of the right hon.-gentleman had on the whole been of a very encouraging nature. (Hear, hear.) The subject was one In which the various chambers of commerce throughout the country had taken a very great interest, and it was felt that a reduction in the cost of telegrams would be a very great boon to the commercial community. In these circumstances, he hop'd that no great opposition would be offered by Her Majesty's Government to a proposal for an early reduction in the charge for telegrams, if not to 6d., at least to 9d. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Fawcett would endeavour to deal very frankly with this very important question. He fully admitted that the arguments in favour of a reduction in the charge for telegrams were very strong (Hear, hear.) It was un- doubtedly the case at the present time that under the international rates which had been lately settled, it was Possible to send a telegram from any part of England to any part of Belgium, or from any part of the United Kingdom to any part of France at a less costthan was incurred So sending a telegraphic message from one part of London or of Liverpool to the other. The reason for that was that under the special rate agreed upon between England and Belgium telegraphic messages were sent at the rate of 2d. a word, and under that agreed upon between England and France they were sent at the rate of 2Jd. a word. It was not unusual for a telegram sent under those scales to consist of an address of three words and a single word, such as better," come," or worse," and such a mes- sage could be sent to Belgium for 8d. and to France for 10d. He was also free to confess that in view of the number of telegraph stations in the United Kingdom the Dumber of messages sent was not as lar..e as might have been expected. The number of tele; rams sent each year was about 25,000,000 That gave a weekly average of about 480,000, and a daily average of about 80,000. Con- sidering that there were 5,000 stations, he did not think that 80,000 wai a large amount per day, and there was no other conclusion to arrive at than that the present Is. charge was virtually prohibitory—(hear, hear)-not only to the working classes, but to many of the middle classes also. He, hoped the House would think that he had stated the esse in favour of a reduction in the price of telegrams clearly and unreservedly. He was further pre- pared to admit that if the price of telegrams were reduced there would prubably be a large increase in the amount of business. But his hon. friend had thrown out a sugges- tion with which he could not quite agree. He contended that,the reduction in price might be made in bits by reducing the price for local telegrams only. He thought, however, that it would be a most serious thing were tney to impinge upon the principle which seemed to regulate the Post Office system—namely, Uniformity of charge. (Hear, hear.) In France, and, ue believed m some other Continental countries, they had what were known as express telegrams- •hat was that, by paying an extra fee, the telegram had Priority over ordinary ones. As regarded th^gl system, he •ould only say that as long as he had the administration of the Post Office he would strenuously oppose its intro- duction. (Hear, hear.) It would introduce au unfair par- «auty, and he thought that the system should be resisted being a most undesirable one (Hear.) While agreeing ™<th much that had fallen from his hon. friend, he could ?°t accept his motion as it stood, because it was opposed IP facts as they existed at the present time. He was Prepared to My then, as he said when he received a depu- tation on the subject, that the question was worthy of the J^hsideration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether vaggrams were a desirable means of taxation. But his friend had assumed that at the present time a profit ras being made upon this service. It would .be his pain- gf duty to show that the conclusion at which his hon. t\*end had arrived was not applicable to the present state things. His bon. friend said that the telegraph revenue plated on commercial principles showed a regular a:ncu 1876 amounting to about £ 23,000 per annum, total for the year 1880-81 being £ 440,000. His hon. wS concluded from that that the revenue for 1881-82 gyild be about £ 500,000. That would be so undoubtedly if continued to increase, hut, unfortunately, a >eJJWerable decrease was anticipated during the present year °,wit,S to the following facteThe House wculd ^wnber how last Session he was pressed by hon. mem- Ko,, on both sides to increase the pay of the telegraph em- He had granted an increase to those employes, Thftf had cost the Department about £ 80,000 per annum. ?1US | course, be added to the cost of the *5l!^h service> and the effect would be that, instead of £ ,S year'the "venue would probably 4400'0 0- -He w?s »ware that complaints had been P,ythe teiegrapfi employ in that the increase aeeordedto Wa! T.fy sn,al1 was worse than nothing. 5?°i00(» n sa5' f 4 considered a charge of Pew, r year. °,Uuthe P ,lm,dB w"r5e than nothing, he *0 thJ reSretted having made a sacrifice of public monev CS; hear.) His hon. friend had*stehd "fiverf,, u?t,cm t0 61 telegrams would probably cost the TioUg,te about £ 170,000. Those were the figures he had pre- coma ?lVen and he was prepared to abide by them He The the H^use how that sum was arrived at. is. Oiii amount now received from eaeh telegram was cost was about 9d. The profit was thus about f^rV25'000'000 telegrams at 3 £ d. amounted to • gentleman wko was at the head of {fee if I1'.0 department of the Post Office had informed him ^niiBiiivf gI,ims were rcduced to Jd. per word, with a •h thfi c"a,'K of 6d., each telegram would be charged J?ah had the cost would be 8|i. A gentte- •Sfis of tli cu,a';e(1 that thtire would probably be M mil- *5*1,1 tii! 1ranis Instead of 25 millions. Sack telegram *°md ij« a prof!t of H'1-, and the met revenue Sher hari<\ v, showing a lms authoring, wai? to admit that there were many ltiee who did not estimate that the less wottld be so ''great as he had just said. But it was absolutely impossible to foresee what would be the result of six- penny telegrams. It was well to remember that the greatest of all postal reforms-the introduction of the penny postage—w as not at first a financial suocess. Expe- rienced officials had carefully looked into the question and informed him that it was more than sixteen years after the Introduction of the penny postage before the revenue reached its former amount. Great, therefore, as might be the after financial results, and the advantage con- ferred immediately upon the public, it by no means fol- lowed that loss would not be incurred by the adoption of such a reform as was advocated by his hon. friend. The result arrived at was that the revenue from inland messages would be reduced by £ 177,000. If the present net revenue was taken at £400,000, the future revenue would be £ 223,000. The capital expended in the telegraphic service was about ten and a halt millions. Interest on that sum at 3 per cent. would be about £ 320,030. Thus, instead of the telegraph bringing large profits as his hon. friend had said, there would be a deficit of £100,000. Besides he had taken the interest at the lowest amount—3 per cent. But the result would be still less satisfactory if the interest were reckoned at 31 per cent. as it really ought to be reckoned. It was, however, desirable to state that although that would be the im- mediate financial result, he believed that with sixpenny telegrams the revenue would steadily improve. The head of the telegraph department had come to the conclu- sion that at the end of four years the revenue from the telegraph would have regained its present position. The question, therefore, to be considered by the Chan- cellor of the Exchequer, that House, and the country was whether for the sake of the great advantages which he believed would result to the community from the lowering of the price of telegrams, it was worth while to sacrifice for the first year £ 177,000, for the second year it might be £140,000, the third year perhaps £100,000, and at the end of the fourth year, perhaps, nothing at all. He hoped he bad stated the case clearly. It was often asked by the public Press and by Chambers of Commerce why the Postmaster-General did not introduce sixpenny telegrams. His answer was, "Where is the money to come from ?" On the other band, he was often asked to raise ;the wages of telegraph employes. But he would ask non-members to re- member that they could not eat their cake and have it. He could only say that the best way for hon. members on both sides of the House to bring about sixpenny telegrams was to strengthen the hands of the Government in carrying out their policy of economy. (Hear, hear.) As for himself, nothing would give him greater pleasure than to receive a message from the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the finances of the country were in a condition to admit of the change proposed. (Cheers.) Mr. R. Martin hoped that the Government would take into account the important bearing upon the question of telephonic communication, which in large towns was tending to supersede the telegraph. Dr. Cameron said that he should go to a division on the question of the expediency of taxing the country for the purpose of reducing the price of telegrams. Mr. Gladstone thought that the statement of his right hon. friend was clear and ingenious. His right hon. friend had shown no bias against the principle of reduction in the price of telegrams, and had, in fact, been liberal in the expression of a general opinion in favour of the views ex- pressed in the motion. He did not know that he should be disposed to go quite so far as his Tight hon. friend upon the question of taxation for the benefit of the telegraph service. No doubt no remission of taxation had been more advantageous to the public than the remissions on the means of communication. When the revenue was in such a flourishing state that considerable sums were at the public disposal, the charge upon telegrams would come in just comparison with other claims upon the Exchequer. Further than that he could not go at the present moment. (Hear, hear.) Mr J. Howard hoped the Postmaster-General would signalize his tenure of office by the introduction of sixpenny telegrams. The House divided, when the numbers were— For Dr. Cameron's resolution 77 Against it • • 148 Majority —71 After some further business the House went into Commit- tee of Supply and agreed to the victualling and Clothing Vote for the Navy, and also to a Vote on account of the Civil Ser- vice Estimates. Some other business was disposed of, and the House ad- journed. In the HOUSE OF LORDS, June 27, Lord Belmore called at- tention to the annual report for 1881 of the Commissioners of Education in Ireland, and ailked the Government whether they would consider the recommendations therein made by the Commissioners with a view of giving effect to them by legislation next year. Lord Carlingford was satisfied that reform in this matter was needed. The Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant would confer with the Commissioners and consider the sub- ject in the recess. A number of Bills having been forwarded a stage, and the other orders having been disposed of, their Lordships ad- journed at seven o'clock. In the HOUSE OF COMMONS at the morning sitting, in answer to Mr. W. H. Smith, Sir T. Brassey said there was no foundation for the rumour of an accident to the Monarch and Alexandra. CETYWAYO. Mr. Dawney asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the visit of Cetywayo to England had been decided on with or against the advice of Sir Henry Bulwer; and if, with his advice, whether he could state the reasons that had induced Sir Henry Bulwer to thus alter the very strong expression of opinion contained in his letter of the 13th of May, publish, d as letter No. 90 in the Blue-book lately issued containing the correspond- ence relating to the affairs of Natal and Zululand, in which he advised the postponement of the departure of the ex-King for England until some definite decision had been arrived at with regard to the future of the Zulu country, and commented on the unfair use which had already been made of the permission given by Her Majesty's Govern- ment to Cetywayo to go to England for purposes of in- trisue in Zululand, with the object of forcing the situa- tion in favour of the ex-King's restoration, and in "W/iich he mentioned the great uneasiness produced in the minds of the Zulu people by this agitation on the part of the ex- King's brothers, and their uncertainty as to the intention of the English Government, and declared that he couid not shut his eyes to the consequences likely to result from the departure of the ex-King for England, and from the further agitation to which he feared it would give occasion owing to the ill-use that would be made of the event by the party under Undabuko and whether the Government had come to that definite decision as to the future of the Zlllu country that Sir Henry Bulwer then declared would alone excuse the permitting Cetywayo to visit England. Mr. Ashley, in reply, said: I am glad the hon. member has given me the opportunity to put before the House the substance of the telegraphic communication which passed between the Colonial Office and Sir H. Bulwer, because one report of what I said last night in reply to the right hon. gentleman opposite was so inaccurate as to appear as if I had strained Sir H. Bulwer's views so as to place upon him some of the responsibility which the Government is quite ready to assume. The following is the substance of the telegrams:— Secretary of State to Sir H. Bulwer. June 21.-The delay of Cetywayo's visit to England does not appear to have averted disturbances in Zululand, and it is not easy to justify further postponement, especially as the favourable season will soon be over. We think that the promise to him should be fulfilled and that his visit should take place without further delay, unless you see any urgent reason to the contrary. Sir H. Bulwer to Secretary of State. "June 23.-The disturbances in Zululand are caused by agitation, which is the result of interference by persons in this colony who desire to see the ex-King restored. What has taken place respecting Cetywayo has been used in a way that stirs up agitation. But if Her Majesty's Govern- ment think it necessary, for the reason given by your lord- ship, not to further delay the visit, I do not wish to oppose. It should be understood that it does not in any way commit us as to the course to be adopted in regard to Zululand." "Secretary of State to Sir H. Robinson. "June 23.—After communication with Sir H. Bulwer, have decided not to postpone further Cetywayo's visit. He may, therefore, start whenever ready. Remind him that visit no way commits us as to future course respecting Zululand." What, among other things, has pressed on her Majesty's Government, are the danger to Getywayo's life owing to his disappointment at the promise not being kept in good faith, and the fact that, as Sir H. Bulwer cannot send in his report for some little time, and it will then have to be fully considered before any definite decision can be arrived at as to the future of Zululand, it would have been altogether too late were that final decision waited tor before allowing Cetywayo to make his appointed visit. (Hear, hear.) Mr Gorst inquired whether Sir H. Bulwer's report would be laid upon the table before the end of the pressnt Session ? Mr. Ashley replied in the affimative. Sir M. Hick-Beach inquired whether Her Majesty's Go- vernment had received any information as to the disturb- ances that had occurred iu Zululand. He had understood the hon. member to say that no disturbances had taken place there. Mr. Ashley said that what ho bad eaid was, not that no disturbances had taken place in Zululand, but that no actual fighting had occurred there. Sir M. Hicks-Beach gave notice that if the Government did not lay all the papers relating to this matter upon the table he should move for them. Mr. Ashley had no objection to lay them upon the table. PREVENTION OF CRIME (IRELAND) BILL. The consideration of this Bill in Committee was resumed on Clause 14, which proposed to give justices the power of apprehending absconding witnesses. A proposal by Mr. Healy that the information that the witness was about to abscond should be from facts within the knowledge of the deponent was negatived by 139 to 33, and another proposal by Mr. Healy that he should not be detained longer than three months after his recognizances was negatived by 197 to 48. There was much discussion on the treatment of these wit- nesses while in prison, and Mr. Trevelyan, while declining to accept any statutory right to exceptional treatment, undertook to look into the subject. The usual division was taken on the question that the clause stand part of the Bill, and it was carried by 193 to 37. At the Evening Sitting, Clause 15 (power to draft addi- tional constabulary foroe into any district) was discussed at great length. An amendment by Mr. Commins requiring that the Lord- Lieutenant should only act °» ah^sm!"a23 and Tproposal the magistrates was negatived by 78 to 23 and a' Proposal hv Mr Sexton that the existence of crime, ana n«t merely app^ehension%hould justify the measure was negatived by Several other amendmentsi were movedI and■ in the end the Committee adjourned before the Clause had been agreed to. The House adjourned at twenty-five minutes to three o'clack.

THE PREVENTION OF CRIME BILL.

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