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Alleged Lukewarmness of Welshi…

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Alleged Lukewarmness of Welsh i Members. I A BREEZY CONVENTION. The Disestablishment campaign for the  joint counties of Carmarthenshire and West Glamorganshire was held at Llanelly on Thursday last. The afternoon conference was presided over by the Rev. Thos. Johns, D.D., I Capel Als. Dr. Williams, Landore, proposed the follow- jl ing resolution, That this meeting represent- ing the Progressive citizenship of Carmarthen- i shire and West Glamorganshire declares its unhesitating conviction that the State Estab- lishment of the Anglican Church in Wales is indefensible, inexpedient, and unjust; it, therefore demands, in the interests of political righteousness and of religious efficiency, that this anomaly should cease." Mr. H. Jones-Davies, Glyneiddan, Nant- garedig, said the modest demands of the re- solution had not yet been accomplished. He was sure they would all agree that the canker which had been sapping at the roots of the State should be removed. The case for re- ligious equality was !an overwheming one. Election after election, the voice of Wales had always been crescendo. There was no com- promising in the country about this matter; it was in the House of Commons they had I compromising The people wished to get rid I of the State Church and the octopus which had been the bulwark against the march of progress in this life for generations (applause). The Rev. Hugh Edwards, London, in sup- porting, said they were there to show to the country and to the Government that Wales was in grim earnest. for Disestablishment. Some time ago the Bishop of London asked what did Wales want with Disestablishment ? He would think he could have answered the question himself by now. They did not ob- ject to the Church of England as a spiritual organization. They were in sympathy and in agreement with them so far as their funda- mental doctrines were concerned. What they did object to was the connection of the Church with the State (applause). They did not be- lieve in preferential treatment, either in com- merce or religion. Wales was the only coun- try to-day where there was an alien church. Whatever argument Ireland had for Disestab- lishment, Wales had it twice over. The Bishop of St. David's had attacked the Rev. Evan Jones because he said that their num- ber was 150,000, and he should have stated 180.000. He would let them have their 180,000 and out. of a population of two million and a quarter the Church claimed to be a national church. Mr Asquith had submitted figures which showed that there were three Noncon- formists to every Churchman. Mr. Timothy Da vies, M.P., who also sup- j ported, said the Bishop of St. David's said in Convocation, held in London last week, fhat there were not more than half of the population of Wales Nonconformists. What j did the bishop wish them to believe by that He onl) wished Irs colleshues, the English bishops, to believe that the majority of the people of Wales adherod. to the Established Church He \13 quite wrong. The Bishop of St. nftvid's had been brought up as a Methods. ani he was evidently a better bisbo-i in cousequeuee tbiughfer). He (the Bishop) was not ignorant- of the history of Nononioi mity in W;d!s. and he could not feign to 1* ignorant, and lie should not go to i London and submit 'misleading' statements to the English bishops in Convocation. Th« res (Union was carried unanimouslv. The R v. j. Lloyd M'orgrm, Pont- do! proposed the -following res duti^n -"Thrt this r-'>r«ferern-o refoice; at the intm<lu">t'm i;, the Holtse of Commons by the Prime Mi'i;»ic>t of the Bill to terminate the State Eatabhsh- inent of the Anglican Church in Wales, ex- i presses its approval of the provisions of the Bill. nrgeB the Government to carrv it through all its stages with all possible speed, assures f them of the hearty support of the Welsh people in that task, and calls upon all who value religious freedom in both countries to prosecute a vigorous campaign in favour of tmeasure Mr Clement Edwards, M. P., who seconded, was cheered to the echo. He said he would declare frankly and bluntly there, as he had said at the Party meeting, that if the Welsh- â¢Party cpllectivelv would do their duty in this session of Parliament, then the Govern- ment would push the Disestablishment Bill through all its stages. The kind of thing that was being whispered now was that this magnificent Budget must be pushed through, ,in (I h( quite jigreed, and nothing must he done on the Disestablishment question to j->p.'i.rdise the possibilities of the Budget. Absolutely, he for one declined to allow the Budget to be placed alternately with Dises- tablishment. We wanted both, and we could get both (applause). It was said that at the first rsadinsr the House of Lords would reject the Bill. Then the sooner the better they got that over, so as to be ready for the second asking. A distinct pledge had been made to Wales in this mlttcr. and. so far as he was concerned, be vras determined that that pledge should be kept (applause). Mr. W. "Llevelyn Williams, -AI.P., said he was at one with Mr Edwards in saying rb.t the Government was pledged to the hilt carry the Bill through the House of Com- mons, and that it would be absurd to say that Wales would be satisfied with a mere second reading of the Bill. It would be wasting the time of the Government and fooling the coun- try if t-h > Government simply meant to carry the Bill forward to a second reading. The next practical question was whether there was time to carry the Bill forward through all its stages'. The answer to that question would depend upon the advancement of the Budget, which was the greatest Budget ever introduced, and on that question he disagreed with Mr Edwards. The. Budget was the great charter of the democracy of the country, and therafore lie thought -every Radical in the Kingdom would say that the first object of the Jioverninent should be to place on the Statute Book the Budget, which the House of Lords (fould not throw out. "I say at once," ho said, in my own constituency, that if the question comes for me to choose between this democratic Budget, and the Disestablishment Bill-of course, I do not mean which I prefer, hut. merely because we all know thai: the latter will not become Rev. Towvn Jones: No. Mr. Williams: Do you mean to tell me that the House of Lords ,m pass the..D)-r>K«h merit Bill ? Rev. Towyn .Jon: How do you know they \vou't ¡applause).. I Mr WjHiain?: WeH, of course. T am not like Mr. Towyn Jones. J do not. mix with the I dukes and lords (cries of "Order") Rev. Lloyd Morgan: Stick to the resolution, Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Mr. Jones is quite at Libedy to say anything he likes after I have finished. and not before. In spite of that interruption, in my humble opinion, notwithstanding the snnetior knowledge of Mr. Towyn Tones. This remark raised pandemonium. and there was a great uproar and cries of 'â¢W.ith- draw." Mr. Williams: I will withdraw nothing -it Withdraw W h/ did T A Y-ei 0T-u i r.- .< V I i 3 or?. \1 I ⢠j v!;tV;1 ;,i !'¡;ir! j. < f â â â I Rev. Lloyd Morgan: You were not speaking to the resolution. A delegate (to Mr. Williams): You said, Notwithstanding the superior knowledge of I; Mr. Jones," and that is insulting. Mr. Williams: If that is insulting to Mr. Jones, I withdraw (applause). I am sorry for this interruption If you will allow me-anù I am speaking in my own constituencyâin spite of any interruption I am going to lay my views before you, and without fear and without favour (applause). In my humble opinion, the Disestablishment Bill, even if it is carried through the House of Commons, will be rejected by the House- of Lords. That is my view, and for the first time I have had it advanced that that is not the case. All we can hope to do, even in the Commons, is to make it a part of the case, against the House of Lords, because it will inevitably be rejected by the Upper Chamber. The question might arise whether we are to sacrifice the benefi- cent provisions of the Budget, which provide for sickness and old age ,or whether we shall sacrifice the Disesta,blishment Bill, which we know will not become the law of the land during this Parliament at any Tate. If such a question arises, then I say my vote will be in favour of the Budget, but I hope and be- lieve it might be found possible to pass both the Budget and the Disestablishment Bill (applause). The Irish Party had long been the favoured pets of Governments, and after the Budget he was going to demand that the Disestablishment Bill should have precedence over the Irish Land Bill (a voice: "Yes, the Irish members fight for it"). The Rev. Towyn Jones followed in a fiery speech and said that the Welsh people were equally anxious with Mr. Williams to pass the Budget, and they wanted Disestablish- ment as well (applause). If Wales did not now get it, the fault would be entirely that of the Welsh members. He was very glad to see the stand taken by Mr Clement Edwards In this matter Mr. Edwards had done more service than all th" Welsh members put to- gether (applause). Why did the Irish mem- bers get what they asked for? It was be- cause they had a single eye to the welfare of their country, and nothing else. That was the spirit which should animate. Welsh mem- bers. Compare for a moment what the Labour members had done, and what had been accomplished by the Welsh Party. The Labour Party only numbered 31, but they had made their mark already upon the statute book in this Parliament. After further discussion the resolution was carried.

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