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NEWTOWN LOCAL BOARD.

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NEWTOWN LOCAL BOARD. LIVELY SCENES. MR. LLOYD "SAT UPON." A meeting of this Board took place on Friday evening, 1st inst., when there were present Capt. Edward Pryce-Jones (chairman), Messrs. G. H. Bllison, Cornelius Morgan, Edward Jones, Richard Lloyd, Thomas Jones, David Lewis, T. Owen, W. -Lewis, and David Owen; and Messrs. W. Cooke (ctlerk), and R. W. Davies (surveyor). IMPROVEMENT. It was agreed to adopt the following resolution That we the Local Board, being the urbane .authority for the district of Newtown and Llan- llwchaiarn, do hereby agree to adopt the Public Health Amendment Act, 1890, in accordance with the provision of section 3, sub-section (1) and (3) of the said Act." THB WATER WORKS COMPANY AND THE FIRE BRIGADE. The Chairman: The next item is the report of the Captain of the fire brigade. At the last Board meeting it was decided, after reading this very im- portant report from Mr. W. F. Thomas, that it should not be published in the papers until the Water Works Company had received a copy of it. The Board decided to put the subject on the agenda for this meeting, and it now comes up for considera- tioo. Mr. Lloyd I do not recollect those words, not to be published in the papers." The Chairman: Yes I am under that impression, but I may be wrong. Perhaps the Clerk will refer to the minutes. Mr. Lloyd: No, that it should not be discussed by the Board until the Waterworks Company had been furnished with a copy. T,he Clerk said there was no minute on that poitliJ-simply that a copy was to be sent to the Waterworks Company. It was a suggestion not a resolution. The Chairman We have received a letter from the Water Works Campany with reference to the report of the Captain of the Fire Brigade, and also with regard to the little dispute between the Com- pany and the Board. Is it your wish that we should deal with the report separately, or have the letter read as well ? Perhaps in the interests of both sides, it would be as well to adopt the latter oomree. I am, I may say, prepared to go into this matter up to the very hilt, and at great length, as regards the Water Works Company and its position to the town. If we go into this subject, I shall have to ake your indulgence to allow me adequate time to do so. If it is your wish, I am quite pre- pared to set aside a special night for its discussion. Mr. Lloyd: I would suggest that we take all the other business first and then it will be at the pleasure of those gentlemen who wish to stop and hear your lengthy speech that you are prepared to give. I may say I have no desire to remain, nor am I anxious to hear it, but I should like the other important business of the town taken first, for j which I am anxious to stay. Mr. Morgan said it was only due to the captain of the brigade, having sent in a report, to have it read together with the Company's reply. He moved that these documents be read. Mr. David Owen seconded, and added, I hope our Chairman, as he is one of the educated gentle- men of the Board, will not give it us at great length, but fwultum in pcrvo, or a deal in a little (loud laughter). Mr. Lloyd: We all agree to that. The Chairman I do not exactly want to put such a motion to the meeting, but after the ungenerous remarks of Mr. Lloyd, I should like to say that there is no question soj important, so vital to the interests of the town, and for which greater sacrifice has been made than the water question. Of course the Board knows well that whatever Mr. Lloyd, as chairman of the Waterworks Company, or anyone else may say who is interested in the water question, we shall have to take with a grain of salt, because they are interested. The Chairman read the report of the Captain of the Brigade, which stated that the brigade held their first wet drill in High-street on Oct. 21st, when all the fire appliances were brought into requisition. Notioe was given to the Waterworks Company to provide an ample supply of water. The site chosen for the display was the best in the town, inasmuch as they could draw the supply of water direct from the principal main, but he was grieved to say that the pressure was insufficient food connected to the stand- pI -1 -m 1 At., neuse. Playing upon the imaginary fixe the water did mot rise to a height that would be of any service in case of outbreak of fire. He ordered the engine to be connected with the stationary stand- pipe near the salt warehouse, and a fair supply was obtained for the two deliveries. By desire of the Chairman of the Board the engine was taken to Union-street, and the reel hose was attached to hydrant and fed the engine, but the water Was only sufficient for a single jet. He then ordered the branch to be fixed upon the J"5* and was agreeably surprised to find that the water from a single jet reached nearly to the eaves of Messrs George Morgan and Co. His firm conviction was this, that the local authority whose duty it was to piovide for the extinguishing of fires must not rely upon the water from the main wit on 1 pressure, even when taken from the principal artery, to be of little use for the putting out of fires when the buildings were more than two storeys high, and those buildings would have to rely upon the supply from the engine. He advised the Board to secure the small engine belonging to the Assurance Company on easy terms, it was in good working order, and with some £ 15 spent upon renovations, the engine would be as good as when it left the builders. He was of opinion that there would be sufficient water to supply two engines in many places, even off the large main, if the pressure was concentrated upon the hydrant used, and he urged upon the Board the desirability of allowing the brigade the power to control the pressure in case of fire. On November 16th Mr. Thomas wrote stating that he held a surprise drill, and gave notice to the Secretary of the Waterworks Company that the water would be required for about a minute, but they refused on the grouiijl that they must have 24 hours notice. He aaked the Beard how long it was necessary to give notice. This letter was forwarded to the Company, who replied as follows:—"Your letter of the 22nd ult., together with the report from the captain of your fire brigade, has been considered by my directors at their meeting, and I am requested to state in reply that notwith- standing the opinion expressed by Mr Thomas, they still have eveery confidence in their property. The severe drought of the past summer severely tried many waterworks, bat the company's reser- voir was maintained nearly full during the whole period, and was capable of supplying a town two or three times the size of Newtown. This report states that the pressure was insufficient to feed the two deliveries connected to the hydrant adjoining Mr. Barratt's warehouse. This is entirely inaccurate and misleading, as anyone who witnessed the practice will confirm the supply was all that could be desired, until Mr. Thomas had the engine con- nected to the stand pipe opposite the salt ware- house, thereby obtaining the first pressure for the engine and depriving the hydrant of most of the pressure of main. My directors wish to point out that they cannot undertake to provide an ample supply of water for all the fire appliances of your Board for a fire brigade practice at any time they think fit, as apart from the great inconvenience the town is put to through concentrating the pressure to a given portion, the terms upon which your Board are allowed at present does not sufficiently com- pensate them for the quantity of water used and especially if the practice of Saturday, October 21st, was to be taken as an example. My directors can- not and do not undertake to foroe the water to a greater height than their residuary pressure affords, nor are they aware that the Act of Parliament requires them to do more, and as Mr. Thomas points out in the last clause of his report that there is a sufficient quantity of water in the company's mains to supply two engines in most parts of the town, it is the duty of your Board to provide engine power to force the water to the top of the high buildings in the town. My directors are of opinion that the sum and snbstance of the report is the securing the small engine, which possibly your Board may see their way to do, and thus perfect Mr. Thomas s plan for the extinguishing of the fires in the future. In conclusion, I may say that in case of actual fire you may always rely that every available pressure of water will be forthcoming on the part of the company." The Chairman asked whether he should deal with the question, or whether other gentlemen would like to be as fully prepared, and thus dis- cuss the question at a special meeting. Mr. E. Jones: We are a small Board, and I should like the thing discussed by the whole Board. Mr. Lloyd: After what you said with regard to me being a director of the Waterworks Company, and an interested party, and that my remarks should be taken with a grain of salt-- The Chairman: Are you going to propose a motion P Mr. Lloyd No, I am not. The Chairman Then you are out of order. You have spoken once. Mr. Lloyd: No, I am not. The Chairman: I must request you to sit down. Mr. Lloyd: You said- The Chairman: Are you going to make a motion P Mr. Lloyd No, but I can make a suggestion. As you have stated that I am interested in the water- works question, anything I said must be taken with a grain of salt. Those remarks are very much out of place. My suggestion was that the other busi- ness should be taken first, as I did not wish to hear your flengthy speech. If you make your lengthy and well-prepared speech before, it will be neces- j sary for me to withdraw. Mr. W. Lewis moved that the subject be dis- cussed at a special meeting. Mr. Morgan seconded. Mr. Ellison suggested that the matter should be referred to the Fire Brigade Committee, and let them report to the special meeting. This suggestion was ultimately agreed to. TOWN IMPROVEMENTS. The Town Improvement Committee reported that having inspected the bank of the right side of the river Severn, near the Short Bridge, they found it both a nuisance and offensive to the sight, adjoining as it did the main entrance to the town. They were of opinion that every effort should be made to improve it by planting or in some other way as might be determined. To assist in carrying out this work and the making of other improvements on the bank, the committee strongly recommended the Board to accept the kind offer of S10 from Captain Pryce- Jones towards the cost that may be incurred. They recommended the appointment of a com- mittee to superintend the carrying out of the work. The Chairman read a letter from Mr. A. S. Cooke cordially approving of the report. Mr. W. Lewis proposed the adoption of the report. Mr. Edward Jones seconded, ile was pleased to see improvements carried on in the town, and he quite agreed that this place was very unsightly in its present condition. He thought the Board ought to tender its best thanks to tueir worthy Chairman for having started the movement with a handsome subscription of £10, and he thought he was deserving of compliment for taking the step, which was in the right direction. The work at Clifton-terraoe was a great improvement, and gave satisfaction to everybody in the town. Mr Lloyd was sure no member of the Board was more anxious than he was to see the town im- proved in all directions, and were it required he would be willing to lend a helping hand, in order that such improvements might be carried out, but the question of improving the town, the streets and thoroughfares over which the Board had control, of course would be met by money from the rates levied for such purposes. The Act pro- vided that the rates should pay, consequently it was unnecessary either for the Chairman or any- one else to undertake public improvements of the town. When improvements were required tne rates were perfectly capable of standing the bnrden. The Chairman was anxious to save the rates by giving subscriptions, which of course was very kind of him, or of any other gentleman, but the question now before the Board was whether it would be desirable to improve the approaches of the town. Clifton-terrace and the banks of the river at this point were totally different places. Clifton-terraoe was left under the trustees of the Long Estate, and handed over to them as repre- senting the Board, on condition that it should bts used for ornamental purposes, and the work done there has been a decided improvement, and the expenditure oonld not be considered extravagant. But here was a proposal to improve a portion of the town that in no way belonged to the Board—a suggestion to plant trees. Mr. Edward Jones Planting, or in some other way. We do not fasten ourselves to trees. Mr. Lloyd said the Board had no right to plant treos. They had a right to improve the site by taking away objectionable matters that the Board had put there, and rendered the place unsightly. If they carried out the proposal they would have to get another stone depot, and would it be more con- venient or less expensive ? But what right had the Board upon the place ? He maintained they had no right upon the banks of the river. They could prevent any person hauling material there which was a nuisance injurious to health. To that extent they had a right, but no further. They could deal with people placing any matter there which was objectionable, and if it was not removed they could ntlur- proceedings. The space between one bridge and the other bridge had been used from time immemorial for the publio convemenoeyand a very great convenience it had been. It was the only place where people could get stone or gravel for their gardens, and the parts where that was taken from were often filled up with waste material. The public had often been the users of the place from time immemorial. They had had a letter containing a solicitor's opinion on the point, informing the Board they had no right there, but now it was proposed to plant trees there or do any- thing the committee thought fit. That would give an opportunity for a private person to remove the trees, because they had no right to be there. They oonld not make complaint if they interfered with the public right with regard to the placing in the road of poets, for ^he Board had no right to do so. It was proposed at first to block up the road for vehicular traffic, and he had no doubt the other, post was prepared ready to put down. The solicitor v ^vtheyhad no right there, and the Board ,°° npholders of the law and examples of B w, J1 right. Here they proposed to be- come the offenders in the face of the solicitor's opinion. Mr. Thomas Jones said he had been in the town nearly 4U years and the river bank ever since its formation had been kept by the Local Board. He o been taxed for coming there. frl™tiriBrd'smst<)dy ™«id en. tit e them to look after it, and improve it and the Of ^n^t wL w He a^eed with the report. Of course it was a boon t° the Gas Company, and d^ered of just • £ r;D- ?"?.10°k6dT-Pon the discussion as a Wilful waste of time. It was not called for and there was no necessity for improvement. It was said the eagle as a bird could see a tremendous distance, and the members who could see the nuis- ances seemed to possess the eagle's eve TT«, —let things go on as they had been Mr. W. Lewis said all they wanted to do was to hide the nuisances. No doubt, after the improve- ment effected at Clifton-terraoe, it was a bWer eve sore than ever. No one oould enter the town with- out being disgusted with the sight which met the eye. The Board by improving the banks of the river never had any thought of interfering with Hio rights of the public, and the solioitor simply said we could not prevent the public or stop them hav. ing acoess to the banks of the Severn. Mr. Morgan said the Board did not want to break the law, and he hoped the Board would adhere to the report, and beautify the banks in some way or other. Mr. T. Owen said if they planted trees there the river would wash them away. For 15 years he had had stone from near the King's Bridge. Mr. Ellison said the Board had never suggested that they should deprive the public of their rights All they wanted to do was to beautify the spot, and take away the present eyesore. They would only spend the X10 kindly given by the chairman, and he did not think they should disagree on that point. He thought that they had only to look on the other side of the river to see that if they planted willow trees they would stand. If the improvement were carried out, he was sure the ratepayers would say, Well done, good and faithful servants." Mr Edward Jones pointed out that since Tibbot's mill weir was stopped, there was no current round that corner. He thought they should carry out the improvement as the chairman had given £10, and as he was kind enough to do that, no one should gIM?bD.' oWen said planting trees was all moon- The Chairman pointed out that the report meant the appointment of a committee to carry out the work. The improvement of the river banks had been before the Board for about two months, and there had been obstacles and obstructions thrown in the way of the improvement being carried out. A committee was appointed and this was their report. Mr. Lloyd: I should like you to explain what you mean by obstacles and obstructions to carry out the same scheme. If you mean that because spme people hold different opinions to your own, then you are not entitled to make use of such remarks and call them obstacles and obstructions, because you are not entitled to express an opinion any more thatn another gentleman of the Board, and such remarks had better be left unsaid. The Chairman I do not know why you should interrupt me. You have already spoken three times on the question. Mr. Lloyd: And I shall speak again if you con- tinae to make such remarks. The Chairman: I shall continue to speak my opinions whether they are adverse to Mr. Lloyd's views or not. As he has somewh&C unnecessarily toast the name of the vice-chairman, who was as enterprising a tradesman as could be in Welshpool, asked me to explain what I mean by obstruction, as in all things he requires instruction in, I shall be very happy to do so. I mean that the subject has, been placed on the agenda several times, and be- cause it did not meet his views, objection was raised, and it has been shelved until to-night. A special committee was ultimately appointed and they have reported, and they recommend that this paltry sum, of X10, and any other sums, shall be expended in some way to improve the appearance of the town and the river bank. One member of the Board objects to the Board improving the bank because we have no right. Another gentleman will vote the same way, but says we should take all the refuse of the town in a place which is not ours. Mr. David Owen: Who says so P The Chairman You did. Mr. David Owen I beg your pardon. I should take the builder's foundations and cellar cuttings. The Chairman I accept your words, if they are correct. There is such an Act as the Rivers Pollution Act, which says that no refuse shall be placed in the river, and I must say I am astonished that we, the members of a corporate body, should encourage the emptying of rubbish in the river and deposits to be made on its banks. Mr. David Owen: I don't think you are entitled to use those words. The Chairman: I differ from you. To think that the beautiful banks of the Severn should be made a place for the deposit of refuse, why it seems to me to be inexplicable. Mr. Owen and Mr. Lloyd have brought an objection against the report that we shall be depriving the Board of the stone depót. That is not so, the intention of the com- mittee was that it should remain, but be hidden by the plantation of trees and shrubs. I am bound to admit that the posts put there are useless as at present, but he would be a bold man who would take them up. It is for the Board to protect the lives of the inhabitants of the town, and on a dark and foggy night that spot is very dangerous, and a carriage might drive into the river. I am of opinion that the place should be under lock and key. With regard to the legal advice given, I think it is now time to refer to how it was that Messrs. Williams, Gittins and Taylor should have been asked to give advioe on the point. It was proposed that Mr. Edward Powell be asked to give his advice, but as he is the agent for Mr. Briscoe and Sir Pryce, it was thought his opinion would be in favour of the Board, but Mr. Llovd objected, as he thought he was interested, and yet he proposed Messrs Williams, Gittins and Taylor. Mr. Lloyd: No, I did not. I proposed Mr. Woosnam, and then Messrs Williams, Gittins and Taylor were proposed afterwards. The Chairman: Well you suggested it then. Mr. E. Jones: I proposed it. Mr. Lloyd: You said I proposed it; I did not. The Chairman: But what do we findJ? I believe I am correct, that two of the members of this firm are connected with the Gas Company, and yet they are asked to give advice to the Board on such a matter. I tell you candidly that we have no right to other people's property, but it would be almost madness on the part of the Board as representing the people to lose an opportunity of acquiring land which has been utilised by the public generally for years and years. Mr. Lloyd: The report means the appointment of a committee to superintend the work, and I object to the whole thing. It is a blind report, and yuu snouia state wnai. you are going to do. JJr- w- Lewis: We are only going to spend the £ 10, and none of the ratepayers' money. Mr. Ellison remarked that he had anticipated Mr. Lloyd's objection, and he suggested that the com- mittee should be of the whole Board. Mr. Lloyd: The difficulty is that a great number of the members of the Board are opposed to it. Mr. Ellison Oh, no, not a majority. The Chairman: Really, you will pardon me, but facts are facts, and we cannot help remembering that Mr. Lloyd is a director of the Gas Company, and is also interested in this. Mr. Lloyd (loudly) I object to this. You are the son of Sir Pryce-Jones. He is the leaseholder of land on the other. side, and you may be inter- ested through your father. The Chairman: Mr. Lloyd, I am surprised that you should forget yourself to such an extent as to make use of those ungentlemanly and baseless re- marks. I am surprised and astonished that you should bring in Sir Pryce's name. Mr. Lloyd (excitedly) Then why should you bring in the Gas Company ? The Chairman: Why! Why, because you are a director of the Gas Company. Mr. Lloyd: And you are the son of Sir Pryce- Jones, who is a very short leaseholder of the land opposite. Mr. Morgan: I move the question be now put. The Chairman: The difference between my father and myself and Mr. Lloyd and the Gas Com- pany is this, that between Sir Pryce and me there is a connection by blood, and anything my father does is not binding legally on me, but Mr. Lloyd is a director of the Gas Company and is interested in the works, and if he had any idea of public spirit he would have not shown himself so obstructive in such matters as those in which he is personally connected and interested. Mr. Lloyd: You are a great deal more obstruc- tive by your use of offensive remarks. You stop the business of the Boaid with your offensive remarks, and that continually. The Chairman: To prove that I do not speak or act on matters in which there can be alleged any- thing to the effect that I am interested, I- will quote the case of the County Council and the Public Rooms trial. I was not legally bound to stop away, but I did, although I think, if I had been present, I might have saved the ratepayers L300, which the case cost. Mr. W. Lewis: The differences between Mr. Lloyd and you should not come up personally at the Board. The Chairman: Mr. Lloyd and 1 understand one another now, and I do not think we want an arbitrator. Do you think so, Mr. Lloyd ? Mr. Lloyd It would be as well to have an arbi- trator if it would prevent your use of offensive remarks, and obviate the necessity of my replying to them. The Chairman The difficulty is this, that Mr. Lloyd speaks three or four times, on finding the caso .i against him, and of course he can't forget the fact that he is interested in the Gas Company. Mr. Lloyd: I must really object to your proceed- ings. You may think you are going to use your tyrannical manner and your abusive language without me replying. If you do it, remember- that you will get much more than you give. I am very sorry to have to say it. The Chairman Quite so. We know your sor- row, and understand how you feel. The motion was then put, eight members voting for the report, and Messrs. Lloyd, T. Owen, and D. Owen against. Mr. W. Lewis moved that the committee be the whole Board. Mr. Lloyd I object. I cannot be included, i because I object to the whole scheme. The Chairman: I like Mr. Lewis's proposal. Mr. Lloyd I object. The Chairman Well, you can object if you like. Ultimately the committee was composed of Messrs A. S. Cooke, Edward Jones, H. Roberts, T. Jones, W. Francis, Morgan, Ellison, and David Lewis. A letter was read from the Waterworks Com- pany asking that they might have their account for the inoreased claim paid, and declining to enter into any fresh agreement until the matter had been settled. The Chairman said he was placed in an awkwerd fin, If he said anything concerning the B aftd Water Companies he was accused of using abusive language. fvwT' I have always endeavoured, and shall s do BO> to help the business of the Board, yon" do not say anything un- rakin* nnU • wor^> but you are continually vJ; *x>mt8»anc* referring to one or two gentle- men bemg personally interested in the Waterworks that m-* M OTi 8a^ t*16 beginning of the meeting be taken with a grain of have J°U is not offensive, and you hav repeated ver and over again that gentlemen not SACI m the.Waterworks question. I do if von nrnif Bnything at all in the matter, but and aUow v«n? i° SO' 1 sha* not sifc down yon **> do that. mv^itif111^ Mr" L1°yd has a^in referred to nr n-i.2r" • ave never br™ght in personalties, 0 wa enenaive expressions towards him. The and indisPutable that he is bh.ese °omPanies> and yet he comes here and talks in their favour, and at the same time poses as the friend of the ratepayers and says he Works in the interest of the town. He is the last man to taunt me with using personalties, which would be the last thing I should do. What I have done has been for the benefit of the town and Nth* wtion of the Board clashes with the in- terests of Mr. Lloyd, he should not come but stay away. Of course facts are plain, he is a director of these companies, and when it suits his purposes he vaskes speeches and suggestions on matters in whiefc he is privately concerned. Mr, W. Lewis: I must rise to a point of order. I molt lay my protest against you and Mr. Lloyd, arguing questions on the Gas and Water Works Company here (hear, hear). Don't refer to Mr. Lloyd; I can't sit here and listen to the conver- sation. It it not gentlemanly in any way, Mr. Roberts asked if the Water Company were going to cut off the water supply if they were not paid. The Chairman said they could not do such a thing. Mr. W. Lewis moved that the letter be referred to the Water Committee to report at the special meeting. Mr. Ellison seconded, and the motion was carried.

+ WELSHPOOL STAG HUNT DINNER.

4, ELLESMERE.

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