BOARD OF GUARDIANS.|1897-02-06|The North Wales Times - Welsh Newspapers Online
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BOARD OF GUARDIANS.

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BOARD OF GUARDIANS. The fortnightly meeting of the Board was held on Monday. Mr. Henry Williams pre- sided, the other members present being Mrs. Lumley, Mrs. Edward Roberts, Messrs. Owen Williams, E. R. Evans, E. Powell Jones, Isaac Wynne, T. P. Roberts, Isaac Jones, Rer. W. Richards, Thomas Jones, John Williams (Lian- rhaiadr), Isaac Daniel, Edward Jones, John Roberts, T. H. Roberts, John Jones (Llanrhai- adr), Thomas Jones (Plas Coch), J. 0. Williams, John Williams (Llanfair), Rev. J. F. Reece, with the Clerk (Mr. R. H. Roberts). MR. THOMAS JONES AND THE f INDEPENDENTS. f THE REV. W. RICHARDS AND HIS PROTEST. THE REV. J. F. REECE THREATENS 'A LAW SUIT. The Rev. Mr. Richards said he wished to say a few words with reference to the discussion which took place at the previous meeting of the Board. Remarks were made which re- flected most unfavourably on the character of the Board, and he was firmly of, opinion that they ought to disapprove of such strong and even indecent words as were made use of. The words of which he complained were attributed to Mr. Thomas Jones, Plas Coch, and they ap- peared in the BANNER dated Saturday, January 23rd, and were as follows :Mr. Thomas Jones said he was sorry that unkind remarks were made in the course of this discussion. Had Mr. Reece forgotten that he himself was once an Independent ? He (Mr. Jones) had often been told that the fly that rose from the dung, ascended the highest (laughter). It was a matter of regret that no member of the Board could make a statement without being liable to be the object of unkind and uncalled- for remarks fiom Mr. Reece' (hear, hear). So far as he was able to understand these unkind words, they referred directly to ahighly respect- able religious sect in the country, the Indepen- dents, of which he had the honour of being a member. He was extremely sorry that such remarks fell from the lips of a venerable gen- tleman like Mr. Thomas Jones, and he would have to ask him to withdraw them. Mr. Thomas Jones: I did not refer to the Independents as a body at all. I simply ad- dressed my remarks to Mr. Reece. Mr. Owen Williams said Mr. Richards must have misundeiffctood the meaning of Mr. Thos. Jones in the remarks he made, or he (Mr. Williams) must have done so. He did not un- derstand that Mr. Jones referred in any way to the Independents, and if he might venture an opinion, Mr. Jones had no intention what- ever of casting any slur on that respectable body. No doubt, all that Mr. Jones endea- voured to do was, to reply to Mr. Reece's un- kind and insinuating remarks about religious denominations, especially the Calvinistic Me- thodists. In his opinion, Mr. Jones had no- thing to withdraw in connection with this matter. The Chairman said he was of opinion that Mr. Richards' construction on Mr. Jones' re- marks was an unfair, if not an unjust one. He hoped that this matter would be dropped, be- cause if Mr. Jones was asked to withdraw, he was afraid that other members of the Board who had made use of very uncalled-for re- marks, would have to withdraw also. Mr. Richards: I am not, aware that any- thing so uncomplimentary as Mr. Jones' re- mark has ever appeared in print. A great c number of people had put upon it the same construction as I have now mentioned, and I am indeed surprised that such a thing was ever published. Mr. Thomas Jones: When I made the re- mark, I thought no more of the Independents, as a body, and Mr. Richards, than if he was in America. I addressed my remark to Mr. Reece. The Chairman I did not understand the re- mark as referring to the Independents more than Wesleyans or any of the other denomina- tions. Mr. Jones, on the spur of the moment, addressed his remark to Mr. Reece, and I really think that you misconstrue Mr. Jones by stat- ing that he referred to the Independents as a religious body. That is my opinion. Mr. Richards: But you cannot place upon the remark any other construction than the one I have mentioned. Mr. Owen Williams Dear me, that is ridi- culous. Mr. Reece said that Mr. Richards brought forward the matter entirely without his know- ledge. As a matter of fact he did not hear the ,'1 remark of Mr. Jones at the previous meeting, and did not observe its import till his attention was called to it afterwards. Of course, it was a very improper remark for anyone to use, and it was certainly more to the discredit of the per- son who made use of it than to the person who was alluded to. He was surprised at Mr. Thos. Jones, Has Coch, that he should so far have forgot himself as to make use of such language, and that he did not at once withdraw the ex- pression when its impropriety was pointed out to him. Mr. T. H. Roberts said he too was rather surprised that such rentsrks should be made, and that they should be treated as they had been by the Board. He was also ratheV sur- prised that the Chairman did not rule Mr. Jones out of order when he made such a remark. But that was not the first time that the Chair- man had allowed improper remarks frcm one side of the Board to pass unheeded. He recol- ¡ lected the. occasion when he had himself asked for the withdrawal of a personal remark con- cerning himself, and the Chairman had not complied. To say that Mr. Reece had come right up from the dunghill, and calling another member a tool, such remarks ought not to be used at the Board they were too personal. He had noticed that when the Chairman had been asked to rule persons out of order belong- ing to another party, he had done so. The Chairman denied that the words re- ferred to by Mr. Roberts were used before the Board they were used at the District Council, when he was not Chairman. Mr. T. H. Roberts said he would have to re- peat what he had just said, and that he had been called a tool in the hands of other persons at the Board meeting That was not the right thing to be said, and he asked that it should be withdrawn, but the request was not acceded to by the Chairman. Mr. Jones.also expressed that Mr. Reece had got up from the dunghill if he had done so, all the more credit to him, and even)Thomas Jones himself was a self-made man. Mr. John Jones I propose that we go on to the next business. Mr. Reece said that if Mr. Jones now re- peated the expression of him, if he did not withdraw, he (Mr. Reece) must bring the matter up in another Court. The Chairman said it was not very honour- able on the part of the Board to raise this kind of discussions. Several matters had come before the Board lately on which they failed to agree, and when an election was on, feeling ran very high. He really failed to see that they would gain anything by going back in this manner in order to find fault with one another. As Chairman, he always endeavoured to carry on the business in an orderly way, and to secure fair play to every one. Of course, he felt com- pelled at times, to prevent members from speaking too often. He was always sorry to hear unkind remarks being made in the meet- ings, and sincerely hoped that what had taken place in connection with this matter would be a lesson to them in future. Mr. T. P. Roberts I should like to say a few words Several Members Cymraeg, Cymraeg. Mr. T. P. Robertn I will give it you in Welsh after Mr. John Roberts Let us have it now. Mr. T. P. Roberts, speaking in Welsh, said the Chairman was quite right :in the remarks he made with reference to the unkind words used by members towards each other. No doubt members often made use of words which, at the time, did not convey their true feelings on certain questions, and this would always be the case with members who had no great w^ Ch of language at their command. At the same time, if the words used by Mr Jones had been applied to the Chairman, or any other member, no doubt those members would not like them. However, it was the duty of every man who had injured the feelings of another to withdraw his remarks, if he found out that such remarks were uncalled-for. In the present instance, Mr. Jones had partly withdrawn his statement by stating that he addressed his remarks to Mr. Reece, and not to the Independents as a religious body. The Chairman Mr. Jones has already ex- plained that he did not mean what Mr. Rich- ards now suggests. It has been moved and seconded, that we proceed to the next business. Mr. T. H. Roberts: I have an amendment to move, and that is, that Mr. Jones withdraws the remarks he made with reference to Mr. Reece. Mr. E. R. Evans: If Mr. Jones withdraws, other members ought to do the same. One member, during the discussion, told me to sib down. As I have as good a right to get up in this Board as any other member, will that gen- tleman withdraw the remark lie made to me? The Chairman Yes, no doubt, more than one member has said some things which he ought to withdraw. It was then agreed to proceed to the next business. THE APPOINTMENT OF DR. DAVID LLOYD. The Clerk read a letter from the Local Go- vernnrvii Board with reference to the election of Dr. David Lloyd as Medical Office- for the Llanrhaiadr District, in which it was stated that the appointment was confirmed, for one year only. The Board had had the matter under their consideration, and had decided, inr view of the opinion expressed by the Guardians, to consent to the employment of Dr. Lloyd for a period of one year, notwith- standing that he did not reside in the district. It was not in confirmity with their general practice, and they only consented on the pre- sent occasion in view of the strongly expressed opinion of the Guardians, that the appoint- ment of Dr. Lloyd would be greatly to the convenience of the sick paupers of the district. The appointment would extend to the 31st of January, 1898, and three months before that date, the Board must proceed to the election of a medical officer for the district, and must re- port the result to the Board above. Mr. Owen Williams said he saw no reason in appointing the Medical Officer for one year instead of three, as they had been in the habit I of doing. The Chairman said the, Local Government Board had to admit that the reasons given by I the Guardians for appointing Dr. Lloyd were very strong—one of them being that his resi- dence in Denbigh would be more convenient to the paupers than if he had resided in the dis- trict itself. Mr. John Roberts: I am afraid there must be some influences at work in this matter to make the Local Government Boatd arrive at this decision. The Chairman It is very strange. Whilst admitting that we had given strong reasons for appointing a, medical man outside the district, yet the Local Government Board only confirms the appointment for a year. Mr, T. P. Roberts proposed that they should accept the decision of the Local Government Board. Mr. John Roberts moved the following re- solution :—' That the Board, by a majority of 18 to 8, elected Dr. Lloyd to be Medical Officer for a period of three years, and having assigned strong and sufficient reasons for doing so, re grets to find that the Local Government Board, notwithstanding that the Medical (Officer of the district has always resided at Denbigh, and his appointment has always been [previously iinctioned for three years, has, upon this occa- sion, approved the appointment for one year only, and hereby records its protest against the course adopted, and is firmly of opinion that the Local Government Board has allowed out- side interests to influence them in not comply- ing with the requisition of the Guardians,' al- though sufficient reasons were assigned by the Board for the appointment.' Mr. T. P. Roberts: Did you write that re- solution now, or did you get it from some- body? Mr. John Roberts: Ifc is my own work. Mr. T. H. Roberts Has Mr. John Roberts written it out since we have been considering the question. (To the Clerk, who was at the time consulting the Chairman): I am speaking with the Chairman, Mr. Clerk. The Clerk I don't interrupt you, sir. Mr. T. H. Roberts I 'was speaking to the Chairman. The Clerk: Speak on, sir. Mr. T. H. Roberts: I would like to have the Chairman's attention. Had Mr. John Roberts any knowledge about the reply of the Local Government Board before this meeting ? Has there been a caucus meeiing to write that re- solution out before this Board meeting? I am certain that since the time that Mr. John Ro- berts left his chair to go to the Clerk's room, he has not had time to write out that proposi- tion, and to return to his chair. Certain mem- bers seem to have got to know as to what the reply of the Local Government Board was be- fore other members did. Can you give me an explanation of that ? The Chairman There is nothing- in it. The Clerk told me when I came in what was the reply. Mr. T. H. Roberts And this reply has been shown before the meeting? The Chairman Mr. Reece was here when the Clerk told us both. The Clerk I did inform Dr. Jenkins. Dr. Jen inns called this morning, at 11 o'clock, to know if there w.1-s any reply, and I read him the letter. Mr. T. H. Roberts: I thnk there has been preference given to cert tin members who had been allowed to know the result sooner than the others. The Chairman again assured Mr. T. H. Ro- berts that there was no ground for his com- plaint. Mr. Isaac Daniel said that the general feeling of the district where he lived was, that the Board had done what was right in this matter. A division was taken, when there voted for Mr. John Roberts' amendment 14, and 4 against. The amendment was therefore de- clared carried. DR. LLOYD'S DEPUTY. A letter was then read from Dr. Lloyd ap- pointing his assistant, Dr.Thomas Owen" Jo a es, as his deputy, and thanking the Board for ap- pointing him Medical Officer for the Llanrhai- adr District. Mr. John Roberts: Who is this Dr. Jones? The Clerk replied that he was Dr. Lloyd's assistant, and a fully qualified man. m°tfon of. Mr. John Roberts, seconded by Mr. Owen Williams, the appointment of Dr Jones as deputy was accepted.

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